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The Situation Room

Interview With Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN); Biden, Trump Set For First Presidential Debate; U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 205,000 with Seven-Million-Plus Cases As New Infections Trend Higher In Almost Half Of U.S.; Kentucky Attorney General Says He Will Comply With Judge's Order To Release Breonna Taylor Grand Jury Recording; Wolf One-On-One with Breonna Taylor Family Attorney. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 29, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:49]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Take a look at this. We have got some live pictures coming in from inside the debate hall, where we're now just a few hours away from a truly historic debate between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden.

Both men just arriving in Cleveland, Ohio, for their first face-off of the campaign. The stakes clearly are immense, with each candidate preparing new barbs to get under the other's skin. We're also told it could get rather personal.

Tonight's showdown will be the first general election debate in American history to take place during a pandemic. Precautions include social distancing between the candidates, no handshakes and the entire audience being tested for COVID-19.

The coronavirus death toll, by the way, here in the United States is closing in on 206,000, with more than 7.1 million confirmed cases, as Dr. Anthony Fauci is now warning that unfortunate mixed messages out of Washington are hurting the credibility of potential vaccines.

Nearly half the country is now heading in the wrong direction, with new cases increasing in at least 23 states.

Let's begin our coverage this hour with CNN's Kaitlan Collins. She's outside the debate hall in Cleveland, Ohio.

Kaitlan, CNN is learning, what, that both sides expect this debate to get rather personal. Tell our viewers what you're learning.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, and they think it's going to get personal pretty quickly, because the Trump campaign believes that that major "New York Times" investigation into his finances is going to be one of the first questions that the president is asked tonight. And he's made clear during debate prep sessions, the view that he has

with advisers, that he wants to bring up Hunter Biden and his work overseas as a deflection technique really that you're going to see from the president tonight when asked about his own finances.

Of course, we know the former vice president is deeply protective over his children. We expect him to potentially bring up Donald Trump's children as well, including Ivanka Trump and her son (sic) Jared Kushner, who, of course, works in the White House alongside President Trump.

So that is something that's going to be a big subject, where you could see this get personal tonight. And, of course, the president is very sensitive about his finances. It's something that people are actually pretty resistant and hesitant to bring up with him.

And that is expected to be a pretty big topic tonight. And Joe Biden made that clear by releasing his taxes just hours before the debate, Wolf, showing that he paid 400 times what the president did in federal income taxes last year, compared to what the president paid his first year in office.

Now, Wolf, besides what you're going to hear about, this debate is going to look like something you have not seen many of the other presidential debates look like, because the candidates are going to come on stage. There's not going to be a handshake, like what you typically see.

Everyone here on the grounds is wearing a wristband to show that we have been COVID-19-tested and tested negative, obviously, going into this debate for the limited audience that they're going to have. And, of course, the pandemic is going to be a major topic that the president is going to have to answer for tonight at this debate -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Kaitlan, thanks very much, Kaitlan Collins reporting from Cleveland.

Let's go to the White House right now. Our Chief White House Correspondent, Jim Acosta, is standing by.

So, Jim, how does the president feel about tonight's debate, based on your latest reporting?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, a senior Trump campaign official told reporters earlier today the president feels confident about tonight's debate with Joe Biden.

But a Trump campaign adviser told me earlier today the president must make up some ground tonight. The adviser pointed to some recent polls showing Mr. Trump running behind Joe Biden in key battleground states, including this latest "Washington Post"/ABC News poll from Pennsylvania indicating the former vice president maybe building up a sizable lead in that state.

This adviser said of the president's mission for tonight, he needs this debate to break his way. '

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): After days of dodging questions about his tax returns, President Trump is headed to the one place where he will be pressed for answers, his first debate with Democrat Joe Biden.

QUESTION: Mr. President, who do you owe money to? Don't the American people deserve to know?

[18:05:01]

ACOSTA: The president has tried to sidestep revelations reported in "The New York Times" that he's only paid hundreds of dollars in federal income taxes and could owe hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, what Democrats are describing as a potential national security threat.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: What is this about? Where does the president intend to get this money, this over $400 million, to pay back? So, it's not just about who he owes it to. It's about where he is going to get it to pay it back.

ACOSTA: White House officials are brushing off those concerns, insisting the president is more than capable of paying off his debts.

ALYSSA FARAH, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: It's just at this point ridiculous. The president has assets all over the world, and that's something that the public is aware of. There's nothing here to see in terms of any sort of a national security concern. He has put out statements that he's able to on his finances and is ready to answer questions.

ACOSTA: In a pre-debate document drop, Biden released his own tax returns for last year, showing he and his wife, Jill, earned some $944,000 and paid nearly $300,000 in federal income taxes, far surpassing what "The New York Times" says Mr. Trump sent off to Uncle Sam in 2016 and 2017.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You have got front-line workers, you have got people who are doing God's work to protect and lift us up paying more in taxes than the self-professed billionaire? It's inexcusable.

ACOSTA: The Trump campaign is pointing to the president's go-to explanation for keeping his tax returns a secret, that he's under audit.

TIM MURTAUGH, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: "The New York Times" confirmed that the president remains under audit and has been under audit for the last 10 years.

ACOSTA: Aides confess the president hasn't done much preparation for this first debate.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had a little debate prep before we came here. I think this whole thing, though, is debate prep. What I do is to be prep every day. I'm taking questions.

ACOSTA: Mr. Trump has instead made baseless claims about Biden's mental acuity.

TRUMP: We're going to ask for a drug test. We are. I'd like to have a drug test. Both of us. I will take it. He will take it.

ACOSTA: But hold on. That's just a rerun of what the president alleged in 2016.

TRUMP: We should take a drug test prior, because I don't know what's going on with her.

ACOSTA: The president will also have to answer for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic that's claimed the lives of more than 200,000 Americans. Mr. Trump has frozen out experts like Dr. Anthony Fauci, in favor of Dr. Scott Atlas, who doesn't have any expertise in infectious diseases.

DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS ADVISER: He clearly listens to a lot of people. He understands in a very commonsense way what the science shows and what should be done to save the American -- really American lives. And that's why I'm here. I'm not here to make friends.

ACOSTA: Former White House official Olivia Troye says aides to the president pressured the Centers for Disease Control to downplay the risks of children returning to school.

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: I think there are still people walking around the White House today who don't actually believe this virus is real. A lot of them disregard it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, the president is expected to be joined by his adult children at tonight's debate, but Mr. Trump will be taking aim at Joe Biden's family in an attempt to dredge up old, unproven claims about the former vice president's son Hunter Biden.

But a Trump campaign adviser said it's critical for the president to land some punches on Joe Biden tonight away from the former vice president's family. The polls are, of course, moving in the wrong direction for Mr. Trump, and he's running out of time to change voters' minds.

And after tonight's debate, Wolf, he will only have two more debates to do that with Joe Biden -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, this debate tonight could get ugly, probably fairly soon.

Jim Acosta at the White House, thank you very much.

Joining us now, someone who has plenty of experience sharing a debate stage with Joe Biden, the Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator, thank you so much for joining us.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: You debated Joe Biden got in the Democratic primaries. What does he need to do on that critically important stage later tonight?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, this is a unique opportunity for Joe Biden to really put his vision out there.

The country is just thirsting for a real leader right now. They don't have it. And Donald Trump. They know that. And this gives Joe Biden a moment. Donald Trump's already governed, and look where we are right now.

To show how he's going to bring the country together, how he's going to get us through this pandemic, with competence and compassion. And then what's going to happen the day after tomorrow, where people want to go back to work? They want to find out how they're going to be able to afford college and what they're going to do about paying their mortgages and paying for their health care.

I think health care will be a very big issue in this debate, and Donald Trump doesn't have much to show for it, except trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act.

BLITZER: Do you fear, Senator, that Democrats perhaps are underestimating President Trump heading into this debate?

KLOBUCHAR: You never underestimate him.

And we know he likes the theatrics of the whole thing. But I think the American people are in a different place right now. They are tired of the bombast right now. They want to see real leadership.

[18:10:01]

And I think that's why you're going to see so many people tuning in to see the debate tonight. And they want a true leader. And they know he's going to say outrageous stuff, Trump. They know he's going to be ha-ha-ha, those kinds of things, like he always does.

But that's not a moment where most Americans are right now. This is deeply personal for them, just like me. My dad got COVID. My husband got COVID. People have lost their family members; 200,000 people have died, nearly 30 million people unemployed. This is not a time for lies and bombast.

And that's why I think Joe Biden, having debated him before. I remember getting off every debate stage, Wolf, and think -- people go, how do you think he did? And I'd say, he was good because he was himself. He was normal. He was someone that people could relate to.

And I think that's what you will see coming through tonight.

BLITZER: But, tonight, Biden, he's going to have to navigate some of these expected personal attacks from President Trump, including attacks on his son Hunter Biden. How does he deal with that?

KLOBUCHAR: He's ready for it.

Donald Trump's been doing it to him for years now, the meanest of mean. But my guess is, what you're going to hear from Joe Biden is so, yes, I love my family, but I'm running for president to fight for your families, for the families of people watching tonight, not engage in this kind of mean-spirited attack that Donald Trump does every single day from the moment he wakes up on Twitter.

So, I think it just gives Joe Biden a moment to show the different kind of president he will be.

BLITZER: When it comes to the coronavirus pandemic, Senator, how does Biden lay out his own plan, explain how the response would be potentially different under a Biden presidency?

Because that is the most important issue facing the American public right now. It's so awful.

KLOBUCHAR: Really, it's pretty straightforward, because he's done it. And that is a national plan for testing. And not only will that put people in a better place in terms of their health, but it's also going to allow us to bring our economy back in a much stronger way, instead of these fits and starts that you have seen with Donald Trump.

Secondly, this idea that he's going to tell people the truth and not keep information from people. When I found out that the president of the United States knew this was airborne, and, in his words, deadly, and, at the same time, at my house, we're like washing a resurface and washing our hands, which is still a good thing to do, but we had no idea you could get it the way you can get it, because he didn't tell us.

And then my husband got sick. There's a lot of people that have those kinds of stories. So, telling the truth will be important.

And then putting the people in place, getting things done in the first 100 days, believing in science, all of those things are going to allow Joe Biden to lead so much better and build back better when it comes to our economy and our country.

BLITZER: I know you got to run, but how are your husband and your father doing?

KLOBUCHAR: They're both doing really well. It's an amazing thing, because my dad is 92, and he got through it.

But I know so many families with their parents didn't have the same experience. And Joe Biden is going to be there for them.

BLITZER: Well, please pass along our best wishes. Obviously, you guys have gone through a lot right now.

Senator Klobuchar, thank you so much for joining us.

KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, just ahead, we're going to get the latest on the coronavirus pandemic, including the return to school in New York City, where several neighborhoods are now reporting troubling spikes in new cases.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:18:04]

BLITZER: We are looking at some live pictures coming up from inside the debate hall in Cleveland, Ohio, where we're closing in on a crucial showdown between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden, the first debate of the general election.

Let's get some analysis from our political experts.

Governor Kasich, you're the former Republican governor of Ohio. You're critical of President Trump.

As someone who has shared the debate stage with him, what are you expecting from him during this first one-on-one debate between Joe Biden and the president? Starts in a few hours.

FMR. GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH): It's kind of hard to say, Wolf.

You got to remember that, when I was on the stage with him, when we got down to four, he quit debating, because it was getting down to where he couldn't kind of hide behind other people. I think he will probably come out and try to personally attack Biden. I hope not. I hope this doesn't devolve into some sort of a nasty back and forth.

I think Biden needs to talk about two basic things. One is how the virus was handled and how it's being handled now and the mixed messages, but, secondly, I don't think he should let Donald Trump get away with blaming the -- what's happening with the economy just on the virus.

I mean, there should have been things that could have been done before, should have been aware of all this, and the jobs issue, Wolf.

We're talking about a lot of people from Ohio. It's in Ohio. You had Mike DeWine on. You have me on. It all gets down to one thing that we learned from Jim Rhodes, the former governor, who told George Bush one time -- he took his wallet out, threw it on the desk, and he said, it's all about the wallet. It's all about jobs.

And Donald Trump has not been focusing on the jobs issue. He's been focusing on fake news and the election is a fraud and all this other stuff, not focusing on jobs.

And this is an opportunity for Biden to make the case that he will have a plan that will help with jobs. People want that.

BLITZER: Well, we will see if that kind of substance really does go through the debate.

Abby Phillip, the former vice chair president entering tonight's debate with a stable lead in this race, and including in several of the key battleground states. We're learning that President Trump plans to launch some very personal attacks against Biden tonight, including attacks on his son Hunter Biden.

[18:20:15]

Is Joe Biden going to be able, Abby, to successfully defend against these personal attacks?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we will find out.

I think the Biden campaign is probably as aware as we are that the Trump campaign and the president have been signaling that these Hunter Biden attacks are coming.

But, frankly, they have been sort of on the table, the political table, so to speak for over a year now. Remember, this is what the impeachment scandal was all about just about almost exactly a year ago.

So, Biden has had some practice dealing with these questions being there. The question is, if President Trump goes into personal attacks, will Biden keep his cool? Will he be able to pivot?

And also I do think, with President Trump, as someone who's covered him for years and watches him in the context of these debates, he's very good at repeating things, whether they're true or not, and getting them to stay in people's minds.

And the question for Biden is, can he make himself memorable tonight? I do think it's important for people to come away from this debate understanding one thing about him. And President Trump is going to try to make that one thing something about Hunter Biden.

And Biden needs to really be able to pivot that into something else,

BLITZER: Ryan Lizza is us as well.

Ryan, as you point out, first-term presidents who are running for reelection typically don't necessarily do all that well in their first debates where they're running for reelection. We saw that with George W. Bush when he was running for reelection. Barack Obama, even, when he was running for reelection.

You argue that President Trump is being underestimated going into this debate. Why do you say that?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I spent the last couple of weeks watching all of those Republican debates from 2015-'16, and the three debates from 2016 with Hillary Clinton.

And it's really a revelation to see those in hindsight, first of all, knowing that Trump won the nomination and the presidency, and he was much more strategic and canny than I think a lot of people remember. He was not necessarily the kind of shock jock Trump in every moment that he has been a lot of the times in his press conferences and on Twitter this year.

He has the ability to sort of modulate things. And he really did in the debates against Hillary Clinton stick to a message.

Now, a very, very different context this time, as a lot of people will point out. He has a record, and he has a record, an objectively poor record on the issue of this campaign, his handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

And so that's very different than running as an outsider against Hillary Clinton and using a lot of sort of populist rhetoric to attack her as a member of the establishment.

But Governor Kasich will probably remember the first debate right here in Cleveland that another network hosted, when Trump -- it was a very pro-Kasich audience -- cheered Kasich, booed Trump.

But by the end of that night, Trump had established himself as the center of the Republican primary and race. And he went through about a dozen debates and never lost his polling lead.

So he can excel in this format in his own kind of crazy way.

BLITZER: You agree, Governor Kasich?

KASICH: Well, I mean, look, in 2016, you had so many people on the stage, it was just ridiculous.

And, look, one of the things about Hillary Clinton is, the Republicans had spent many years trying to make her very unpopular, and they were successful. But with Joe Biden, it's pretty hard to do it.

I mean, the Trump people have been saying that they're so frustrated because they can't land any blows on Joe Biden. Furthermore, I just want to say, I know I have heard you say it, Wolf. I have just heard -- I have heard our other guest say it, Ryan, who's obviously intelligent man, that the number one issue is the virus.

I think it is a big issue. I think it's right there with the issue of jobs. And I can tell you this, because, when you talk to any variety of pollsters, they will tell you, at the end, it always comes down to that.

I think tonight what Joe Biden needs to do is to show that he has the stamina, that he has some vision, and that he's strong, and not get into the ditch with Donald Trump. I never got into the ditch with Donald Trump. And, at the end, I was the last person standing. I didn't have the money or the publicity he had.

And a lot of what happened to him in '16 was timing. And it was also celebrity. It's a little different this time. But we will see. It's anything goes. That's why they play the game, Wolf. You never know how it's going to go. BLITZER: Looking forward to watching this tonight.

PHILLIP: And, Wolf...

BLITZER: Abby, hold on for a moment, because we got to take a quick break.

Abby Phillip, Ryan Lizza, Governor Kasich, appreciate it very, very much.

Just ahead: A new coronavirus treatment is generating encouraging new data in the early clinical trials. I will discuss with a former acting director of the CDC.

[18:25:05]

And later: The Kentucky attorney general says he will comply with a judge's order to release audio from the grand jury probing the police shooting of Breonna Taylor.

Ben Crump, an attorney for the Taylor family, he is standing by live.

We will discuss. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: All right take a look at these live pictures coming in from inside the debate hall in Cleveland, Ohio, where Joe Biden and President Trump will face off just hours from now. We'll get back to that in just a few moments, but there's other breaking news we're following here in The Situation Room.

The coronavirus death toll in the United States is now closing in on 206,000, as nearly half the states are now reporting an increase in new cases.

CNN's Nick Watt is joining us from Los Angeles right now. Nick, the latest we're learning from some of the -- we're also learning some encouraging news, I should say, about a potential treatment, treatment, not a vaccine, a therapeutic for the virus. What are we learning?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. This is Regeneron's antibody cocktail and results, early results, I must stress, seem to show that this cocktail does lower the level of the virus and also improve symptoms. But, Wolf, you know, we are getting better at treating this disease, but as you just laid out, the virus is still out there and spreading fast.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: New York City, biggest district in the nation, reopened elementary schools this morning. ANAHI BENITEZ, MOTHER OF EIMHURST ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT: 100 percent safe and 100 percent more excited about coming to school today.

WATT: But nearly half of students have chosen to stay home for now to learn online only. Staff in 150 school buildings have tested positive.

MARILYN RAMIREZ, SPECIAL EDUCATION TEACHER: It is creating a lot of anxiety for all the teachers because it's a lot of unknown, right? It's a lot of uncertainty.

WATT: The NYPD now handing out masks hoping to staunch flare-ups in parts of the city. The mayor mulling reintroducing restrictions in nine zip codes.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D-NEW YORK CITY, NY): -- which would be the closing of businesses on some scale and a broader closing of community institutions. We do not want to do that if there's any way to avoid that.

WATT: Meanwhile, The New York Times reports the White House put pressure on the CDC to downplay the risk of sending kids back to school.

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER HOMELANCE SECURITY ADVISER TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: What I saw firsthand was a lot of manipulation of the data, trying to figure out how to tell a story that was less grim than the reality really was.

ERIN REID, HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: It's infuriating, honestly. It begs the question, what's true? Who do we listen to?

WATT: Here is some truth. Right now, new case counts are rising in nearly half of states. These seven states seeing all-time record high seven-day averages of new cases, hospitalizations spiking in parts of Wisconsin.

DR. PAUL CASEY, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF BELLIN HOSPITAL'S EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT: I can't speak for other areas of the state but in Broward County, we're in deep trouble.

WATT: Average case counts in South Dakota have quadrupled since midsummer.

MAYOR PAUL TENHAKEN (R-SIOUX FALLS, SD): Schools are all open in South Dakota. Colleges are back meeting in person. We're having events, we're having a sporting events, things like that. We are a state that values personal freedoms.

WATT: Here's the scene after Florida's governor allowed bars and restaurants to reopen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It should be people's choice, not the government's. If people want to go somewhere, they should be able to go somewhere. WATT: More than 1 million lives now lost worldwide to COVID-19 and a wildly disproportionate number of them are here in the United States, the richest country on earth. Just over 4 percent of the world's population, more than 20 percent of those reported deaths. More than 5,000 people are now dying in America from COVID-19 every week.

ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: We can overcome this challenge. But we must learn from the mistakes. Responsible leadership matters. Science matters. Cooperation matters. And misinformation kills.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: And then, of course, there is the economic impact of all of this. Disney has just announced they are laying off 28,000 employees in their parks, theme parks division and beyond, you know, obviously, due to the pandemic.

But they also took a little jive at California. They say that the situation is being exacerbated by the state's unwillingness to lift restrictions that would allow Disneyland to reopen. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Nick, thank you very much, Nick Watt reporting from L.A.

Let's get some more on the late-breaking developments. We're joined by the former acting CDC director, Dr. Richard Besser. Dr. Besser, thank you so much for joining us.

I spoke in the last hour with the CEO of this drug company Regeneron, Dr. Leonard Schleifer, about his company's new treatment for the virus, a therapeutic. He said he was encouraged by the results he saw so far. Are you encouraged by the results you're seeing?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, PRESIDENT & CEO, ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION: Well, Wolf, you know I'm glad he's encouraged. I always withhold judgment until the data have been published, they've been peer reviewed, they've been gone over by people who don't have a vested interest in saying they've got good results.

[18:35:04]

You know, these early results that keep coming out from companies in press releases strike me as being about much more about the stock price than they are about science. There is no data in this report.

The fact that companies are working on treatments is terrific news. The vaccines, as we've talked about, may be a long time coming and treatment really matters. And the idea that giving someone an antibody, which is the type of factor our immune system makes and that could work makes a lot of sense, but I would withhold judgment on this until we see the data.

BLITZER: Yes, that's important. You know, just a little while ago, Dr. Fauci said, and I'm quoting him now, unfortunate mixed and deleterious messages have fed out about the safety of a potential vaccine adding, once again, I'm quoting him, I think it's been a lot of mixed messages that have come out of Washington that you can't deny, you can't run away from.

Certainly, very strong words from Dr. Fauci there, especially coming on the heels of both he and the CDC director, Dr. Redfield, raising serious questions about Dr. Scott Atlas, who is now involved with the president in the coronavirus task force giving what they describe as misleading information to the president. What do you think about that?

BESSER: Well, I think we have some of the world's leading experts in infectious disease, in public health, in how to address a pandemic, and Dr. Fauci is one of those. You want our political leaders to be getting their information from the best. And it concerns me if the messages that are coming out of our political leaders are different from the messages from public health and that that may be due to who they are getting their information from.

We know the way to getting this under control. It's the same methods that have been used around the globe, wearing masks, social distancing, doing adequate testing and tracking and providing the circumstances for people to isolate and quarantine. And if we're -- if we follow that blueprint, we're going to get there. But, clearly, the messages we're getting out of Washington are saying, take a different route.

BLITZER: You know, Dr. Besser, you used to lead the CDC. What goes through your mind when you hear the White House actually pressured doctors and scientists at the CDC and other agencies for that matter to downplay the risks of reopening schools, for example?

BESSER: Yes. You know what? I think it's the job of the head of the CDC and the head of the FDA to have a line that they won't cross and to stand up when they are being asked to do something that flies in the face of the science.

You know, I am a parent, and I'm a pediatrician. And I think it's critically important we get children back into school. But you have to do it safely, safely for them, for teachers and for staff. And that takes a lot of work, a lot of resources. And there are many places where there's just too much transmission going on in communities for it to be done safely.

BLITZER: Well said, indeed, Dr. Besser, as usual thanks you very much and thanks for everything you're doing.

Just ahead -- I'll speak with the Breonna Taylor family Attorney Ben Crump, as Kentucky's attorney general now says he will comply with the judge's order to release audio from the grand jury. There is Ben Crump, he's standing by live.

Plus, with just hours to go before the first debate, a senior Trump campaign official now says the president feels confident about the showdown. We'll have more on that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: Kentucky's attorney general now says he will, will release an audio recording of the grand jury proceedings in the Breonna Taylor case following a judge's order. That decision comes after an anonymous member of the grand jury actually accused the attorney general of misleading the public about the case presented to them.

We're joined now by Ben Crump, he's the Attorney for the Breonna Taylor family. Ben, thanks so much for joining us.

We know Breonna Taylor's family supports the release of this grand jury information. What's the latest, first of all? Do you have any insight into when this information will actually become public and what it may actually reveal?

BEN CRUMP, ATTORNEY, BREONNA TAYLOR FAMILY: Well, we understand, Wolf, that it will become public tomorrow at the conversion with my co- counselors, Lonita Baker and Sam Aguiar, working Kentucky. And Breonna Taylor's family is relieved because it's a step forward. We understand the journey for justice is awfully a long journey but this is a good step forward, so they are relieved.

And we hope what will come out, Wolf, is what the grand jury was articulating in this motion, that the Kentucky attorney general, Daniel Cameron, attempted to use the grand jury as a shield to deflect liability and responsibility from his office and so he said that they felt like they were deceived. And if we have all the transcripts released, and we can be transparent, we will know, Wolf Blitzer, if Breonna Taylor ever had a voice inside those grand jury proceedings or not.

BLITZER: As you know a lot better than I do, Ben, it's highly unusual for a juror to speak out in this manner accusing the attorney general of actually misleading the public. What is the juror's concern signal to you and what will this mean in your fight for justice?

[18:45:02]

Well, I think, Wolf, that the juror has heard all the people who are out there protesting for equal justice for Breonna Taylor saying that black women lives matter, too, and why is it when black women are killed by police officers in America, they are disrespected in the courtrooms just as much as they were disrespected in the execution?

And so I think that grand jury is saying, we did not get the evidence to allow us to deliberate whether these killed -- these police officers who killed Breonna and put bullets in her body should have been charged instead of just having the bullets that went into the walls of her white neighbors be the only charges brought in this tragedy. And I think he's speaking truth to power. Wolf. And so, we applaud that grand juror, whoever they may be.

BLITZER: Breonna Taylor's autopsy report was actually released today, as you know. We now know she was shot five times. What does this report tell you about her killing? CRUMP: Well, it tells you that the shooting -- the police officers

shooting were reckless because everybody has articulated that Breonna did not have a gun. She did not pose a threat. She was in her underwear exactly where she had every legal right to be, Wolf Blitzer.

And the fact that these police officers, even in their own statements, said they knew Breonna didn't have a weapon. So why is this black woman killed in the sanctity of her own apartment? That is the question her mother has been asking since the first day this tragedy happened. And for 199 days, she's still asked that question, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yeah, Ben Crump joining us today. We'll see what happens tomorrow when they release this audio. We'll stay in close touch with you.

Thanks very much for joining us.

CRUMP: Thank you, Wolf. This is a step forward for Breonna.

BLITZER: All right. We shall see what happens tomorrow. Thank you.

Just ahead, what Donald Trump and Joe Biden need to do to convince undecided voters in tonight's truly historic presidential debate. We'll be right back.

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BLITZER: We're just hours away from the start of the first and this truly historic presidential debate between President Trump and former Vice President Biden.

Let's bring in CNN political director David Chalian for some analysis.

So, what is the president's biggest challenge going into this debate tonight, David?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, his biggest challenge, Wolf, is where he sits in this race right now, which is as the underdog and needing to upend that trajectory. And I am not sure that Donald Trump's sort of preferred tactics of throwing shiny objects out there to be distractions and controversies is going to be the way for him to actually change the trajectory of the race so far.

He really needs to convince the American people he has a plan for the next four years of sturdy stewardship given what the country has been through with this pandemic and economic fallout.

BLITZER: What does Joe Biden, David, need to do tonight?

CHALIAN: Well, I think Biden needs to beware the bait. Trump is going to try to lie some bait out. The big test for Joe Biden is, does he get thrown off his own game?

We know the way Donald Trump does these debates, the way he performs. And it is really trying to get under his opponent's skin. Does Joe Biden get a little bit flustered when Donald Trump is throwing sort of a lot of lies his way or stuff about Hunter Biden, his son, his way?

Or does Joe Biden stick to his game plan and take this 90 minutes in front of tens of million of Americans to really draw a contrast with Donald Trump on that stage and put forth his plan for how to improve America's position from where it currently is. I think that's the big thing to watch from Biden tonight.

BLITZER: You know, we know, David, that most Americans have already made up their minds if they're going to vote for Biden or vote for Trump. But do we know how many voters -- likely voters out there who are legitimately undecided right now? I've seen various estimates 10 percent, 8 percent, 15 percent. What are you hearing?

CHALIAN: Yeah, if you look at the totality of the polling out there, Wolf, you are right, the great vast majority of Americans seemed to be locked into their choice.

I would say you're looking at a universe of 10 percent to 15 percent of voters who are still movable and still persuadable. And, of course, as you know, we don't have just one big national election. It really masters about the voters in the critical battleground states to get these candidates to 270 electoral votes.

So, there is a persuadable audience, but remember, American politics is a both end proposition. You've got to motivate the base, the folks that are already decided, and you need to persuade the folks in the middle. It's that combination that delivers victory for these candidates. So, you've got to do both tonight.

BLITZER: It's turnout, turnout, turnout.

You've got to get the base on both sides to show up and vote.

David Chalian, thank you very much. It's going to be a fascinating night for all of us here at CNN.

More news right after this.

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BLITZER: Finally, tonight, we pay tribute to more Americans who died from the coronavirus.

Jason Stein of Florida was 46 years old. His wife and daughters describe him as a gentle giant. Jason worked as a physical education teacher and athletic director. He enjoyed watching baseball and was an avid Yankees television. He loved being a dad and always put everyone else in front of himself.

Patricia Ashley of Texas was 53, a mother of three children and many grandchildren. She became sick when she returned to work as a pre- schoolteacher. Her sister says Patricia was the protector of the family. She tells us she misses talking with her every day on the phone. May they rest in peace and may their memories being a blessing.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. Thanks very much for watching.

CNN's special coverage of this historic first presidential debate starts right now.

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