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Trump On Rally Blitz As U.S. Sees Surge In COVID Cases; Giuliani: 50-50 Chance My Associate Is A Russian Spy; Numerous Polls Show Voters Trust Biden Over Trump On Pandemic; Interview With Rep. Max Rose (D-NY) About The Coronavirus Relief Bill; Europe Scrambles To Contain Second Wave Of COVID Infections; Israel Eases Restrictions After Decrease In New Infections. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 18, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

16 days remain until Election Day here in the United States, and President Trump is in Nevada holding another campaign rally in an attempt to save his re-election chances in key battleground states.

Take a look at this live picture that's coming in from his upcoming rally in Carson City, Nevada. He's held eight rallies in recent days despite the rising numbers of new COVID-19 cases. The president's rallies go against the recommendations of his own White House coronavirus task force that recommend against large gatherings and urge mask-wearing.

After tonight's event, President Trump will have held packed rallies in three of the five states that are currently reporting, get this, positivity rates higher than 20 percent. All this as new cases of the virus are spiking across the country.

Take a look at this map. Only two states in the entire United States are not seeing spikes, those two states, Missouri and Vermont. Yesterday alone, the U.S. reported more than 57,000 new cases. Experts say this is the fall surge they've been warning about for months, the months the president spent telling Americans would never come since it was just disappear.

Let's go to Carson City, Nevada, right now. CNN's Ryan Nobles is standing by just ahead of the president's rally.

Ryan, CNN is learning the president is trying to recreate the 2016 atmosphere believing that is his key to victory in 2020. Does that explain the messaging we've been hearing from him over these past few days?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It certainly does, Wolf. Donald Trump is who Donald Trump is. He was a certain way during the 2016 campaign. He's acted in a certain way as president of the United States. And there's no reason to think that posture is going to change as we close in on this election in 2020.

And, in fact, President Trump firmly believes that it is his style, it is the way that he reaches out specifically to his base that is going to be the key to his victory. This despite the fact that poll after poll shows him trailing Vice President Joe Biden not just nationally but in many of these key swing states, including Nevada where we are right now.

But I have to tell you, Wolf, when you ask Republicans about these polls and when you ask the president himself about these polls, the first thing they say is look back to 2016. In 2016, all the pundits and prognosticators were saying that President Trump had a very little chance to win, and he eked out an impressive victory.

Now, the dynamics have changed quite a bit from 2016 to 2020. The president is now an incumbent. He had now has a record to run on. And, of course, he is dealing with the coronavirus pandemic.

But, Wolf, I talked to a Republican operative today who has very close ties to the Trump campaign. This isn't someone who works for the campaign but talks to folks in the campaign on a regular basis. And he says that, essentially, the way that the Trump campaign has to approach this is one way and one way only, you're not going to change Donald Trump, you have to win or lose based on him and his approach. So there's no reason to think that it's going to change between now and Election Day. Wolf?

BLITZER: Does the campaign, Ryan, appear to be taking any serious COVID precautions, such as wearing masks, social distancing for today's event?

NOBLES: No. Wolf, the simple answer to that question is no. They really haven't since they started up these rallies again in earnest in July. That hasn't changed even after the president's own coronavirus diagnosis. There is very little to no social distancing whatsoever. There are very few masks.

Now, they are taking temperatures as people come in. They are offering hand sanitizer. They're encouraging people to wear masks but very few are. Wolf, they do not take the coronavirus pandemic seriously, and there is very little effort here to stop the spread even in a state like Nevada where we're seeing these numbers spike once again. Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes. It's so, so disturbing yesterday in Michigan and Wisconsin, now Nevada. All right, Ryan, thank you very much.

Joining us now, Dr. Patrice Harris, the immediate past president of the American Medical Association. Also with us, Dr. Jeremy Faust, the emergency physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital.

Dr. Faust, the president, once again, holding, as you see, this packed rally in the midst of a very deadly pandemic. That's eight in the past few days alone. What message is this sending to the American people? DR. JEREMY FAUST, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: Wolf, I think the message that it's sending to the American people is that he's willing to put other people at risk to further his campaign. That's a huge risk.

And it also shows that he learned very little from his experience. When Chris Christie went to the hospital and, really, it sounds like, he had a rough bout, and fortunately recovered, he said, I wish I had listened and worn a mask. He said he should have done that and he was essentially admitting that he made a mistake.

[18:05:00]

I think those kinds of words better late than never, because people hear that and say that could be me.

So when the president does this and puts people at risk, I think that it shows he didn't learn much from his case and other people will see that and the harm could be devastating. We hope that it won't be the case.

BLITZER: We hope that it won't be, but everyone is so worried right now.

Dr. Harris, we saw the president yesterday, as they said visit two states seeing major spikes in COVID cases right now in Michigan and Wisconsin. Is visiting these states bottom line reckless behavior on the part of President Trump and his re-election campaign?

DR. PATRICE HARRIS, FORMER PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Wolf, the messages that were true in March when we were at the beginning stages of this pandemic are true today, and, in fact, maybe even more true as we are seeing more hospitalizations, percent positivity rates, increasing across most states in this country. We still should be -- and this is everyone and no one is excluded. We should be wearing masks. We should not be gathering in large crowds. And actually we seen some spread and transmission in large crowds.

So, you know, the message hasn't changed and we all from the very top to the very bottom need to be clear and consistent in our messaging if we do not want to get to the worst-case scenario in this country.

BLITZER: Yes, it looks like it's getting worse by the day.

Dr. Faust, Minnesota Health Officials now have traced at least 20 infections back to a Trump campaign rally in that state in September but President Trump and his campaign have defended their decision to hold these rallies, saying they're safer because they're outside. Is that enough?

FAUST: There is actually a really important analysis to have here. I'm glad you asked it, Wolf. First of all, any mass gathering indoors or out has risks and the virus doesn't care whether you're Democrat, Republican or in independent. But what it does care about is what you do. So why did we not see a lot of spikes in cases after the George Floyd protests? And the answer is actually from the National Bureau of Economic Research that in 315 cities that they looked, a lot of people stayed home who were at the protests and those who were there wore masks. Compare that to Sturgis, the motorcycle rally, it happened in South Dakota, also outdoors, huge spikes in South Dakota after that. Why? Because people go to restaurants, they go to hotels, they weren't wearing masks.

So what the virus cares about is gatherings and, yes, outdoor is better than indoor but what is happening around the behaviors and affects every single one of us regardless of your politics.

BLITZER: Earlier today, Dr. Harris, Twitter removed a tweet from Dr. Scott Atlas, one of the president's top advisers on COVID. And tweet Dr. Atlas casts doubt, seriously. He casts doubt on the effectiveness of wearing masks to curve the spread of coronavirus. What is your reaction to this, to this suggestion that, you know what, masks, not all that important?

HARRIS: You know, we have to be guided by the science and the evidence. And, Wolf, just yesterday I was rereading studies, and study after study after study, let us know that mask help. We can reduce the spread by wearing masks. So the science is clear here. There is no debate about that. There is no credible debate about whether or not wearing masks helps and we should all, any of us, particularly those of us in the medical and public health communities should be making sure we are speaking from the evidence and from the science.

BLITZER: Let me get Dr. Faust to weigh in. As I said, Dr. Faust, the tweet has been removed. But the bigger picture here, what does this mean for Americans who aren't seeing a cohesive message from the top?

And, Dr. Scott Atlas, he's a physician. He's a neuroradiologist, he's not an epidemiologist but apparently has the most say right now as far as the president is concerned when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic.

FAUST: Yes, he's out of his element. He's way so in the left field that it's harmful. I wish he wouldn't say any of the stuff and I don't know why he is, quite frankly, because it's harmful and it's really useless.

As Dr. Harris says, we -- if you look at the science, if you look at the studies, question number one, is wearing masks in any way, shape or form harmful? No. Even for people with lung disease, it's been looked at. It doesn't have any effect on oxygenation, not a problem. And so many studies, and there are some that are, quite frankly, not well done and some that are a little bit better well done that are showing that it can help.

So it's one of these things where there is really no harm and there's a lot of benefit. And we are letting this happen right as we enter October, November, which is when in 1918, quite frankly, all hell broke loose in this country. So we don't want to be in that situation. We know we've learned so much the past many months so why don't we apply that, because I really hope that a vaccine is coming so that it's actually possible that these lives will be saved.

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BLITZER: We all hope a vaccine is coming when it's safe and effective, obviously.

You know, Dr. Harris, in an opinion article published Friday in the New England Journal of Medicine, the author said vaccine trials most openly enroll and give priority to minority groups that have been hit hardest by this pandemic. Tell us why it's so important for more minorities to be included in these vaccine trials and what's the best way to go about doing that?

HARRIS: It is so important to have a diversity of participants in this vaccine trial actually in any clinical research trial that would give us the most confidence when we are recommending these vaccines to our broad population.

However, I, of course, know this and know from speaking to many in African-American and Latin X communities that there is a level of mistrust and distrust and that in some instances is warranted. And so I always say certainly the best way to gain trust is to earn trust. And that's why we at the AMA, and I know all credible physicians and public health leaders in this country have committed to being guided by the science and the data when a vaccine is ultimately recommended.

And so I and others will continue outreach. We want to make sure that everyone across this country but particularly those who have a shared disproportionate burden, negative burden of this disease get the information they need so that they would be willing to take a vaccine once one is developed.

BLITZER: Dr. Patrice Harris, thanks so much. Dr. Jeremy Faust, thanks to you as well. Always important to have both of you here in THE SITUATION ROOM with me, albeit virtually. But thank you so much.

Coming up, 16 days remain until Election Day here in the U.S. and the president is calling for his political rivals, get this, to be jailed and questioning the legitimacy of the results. The former secretary of Homeland Security, Jeh Johnson, there you see him, he is standing by. We have lots to discuss and we will when we come back.

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[18:15:00]

BLITZER: The FBI has warned that Russia is actively trying to sow chaos here in the United States, specifically in the upcoming U.S. election. And now, the president is parroting smears about Joe Biden that authorities think are part of an active Russian misinformation effort involving the president's attorney, Rudy Giuliani.

I'm joined by the former Homeland Security secretary under President Obama, Jeh Johnson. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us.

And as you know, the FBI is looking into where Rudy Giuliani's information came from. What does it say to you that a member, a key member of the president's inner circle is apparently peddling this type of very questionable material and that the president is actually running with it?

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Wolf, my first reaction is it's sad and pathetic. Rudy Giuliani hired me 32 years ago to be an assistant United States attorney in Manhattan when he was U.S. attorney. On 9/11, he was America's mayor. He was a role model for me when I was secretary of Homeland Security for his acts of leadership on 9/11. To see him reduced to peddling political dirt on behalf of Donald Trump that may have come from the Russian government is pathetic to me.

And my message to Rudy, frankly, is think about your legacy after your public life is over. Do you want to be remembered as America's mayor or do you want to be remembered as someone seen possibly as a useful idiot for the Russian government? So it's sad and pathetic.

The Russians, we know, are active in this space. That's what Donald Trump's own intelligence community has told us. And so the government needs to put in place sufficient deterrents. If that doesn't work, we need an informed electorate to pierce through all of the misinformation and be smart about their vote.

BLITZER: The president himself, we are told, was warned by U.S. intelligence officials that Giuliani was, in fact, being used by Russian intelligence to give him Russian misinformation to sow political dissent, chaos here in the United States, that according to The Washington Post. Do you believe he has become, from your own words, a useful idiot for Russian intelligence here in the United States?

JOHNSON: It certainly appears that way. I don't read intelligence briefs anymore, Wolf, but it certainly does appear that way. And if you're a patriotic American, you ought to be asking yourself, is this the role I should be playing in our democracy in the runoff to an election just 16 days from an election?

And I don't understand what's happened to Rudy. I thought he was smarter than this. I thought he was more savvy than this. He seems to be on some sort of mission that is very, very misguided in my judgment.

BLITZER: As you know well, last night, the president called for his political opponents, in his words, to be locked up, including the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, who was actually the target of an alleged kidnapping terrorist plot in Michigan. Is the president, from your prospective, as a former secretary Homeland Security, fanning the flames potentially of domestic terror and extremism?

JOHNSON: Well, he is certainly not doing what just about every president in my lifetime up to now would do in this situation, which is to try to calm things down. Wolf, I said a year-and-a-half ago in an op-ed, leaders do lead and Americans do follow the examples and standards their leaders set. A downward spiral in the rhetoric of our leaders lowers the bar for all the rest of us, makes previously intolerable, tolerable and for the dangerously deranged few who lurk in our society violence inevitable.

[18:20:11]

And we had a taste of that. Thankfully, the Department of Justice, the FBI, Michigan law enforcement stepped in and prevented something really bad from happening. But national leadership in this environment does make a difference. People do listen to their leaders and their leaders, particularly those with a Twitter following like Donald Trump. Well, he do have the ability to influence behavior. I wish the president would accept responsibility for that.

BLITZER: Yes. He's got almost 90 million followers on Twitter.

He has, and you worked closely with then Vice President Biden when you were secretary of Homeland Security in the Obama administration. He is now saying that Biden, in his words, this is the president of the United States, is a national security threat and a member of an organized crime family. What is your reaction when you hear those kinds of disgusting smears leveled against the former vice president of the United States?

JOHNSON: The word I'm thinking of I cannot use on your show, Wolf. But it's political noise. It's overheated political noise. I really believe that the American voters are smarter than that. They should know better than that from Joe Biden's record of over 40 years in public life.

BLITZER: Let me get your thoughts on the current uptick in coronavirus here in the United States. We all know that social distancing, wearing masks will prevent deaths during this pandemic but we've seen so many people still ignoring government guidance from the CDC and others on this. How should the federal government go about this to get people to take this seriously and save potentially in the weeks and months ahead thousands of American lives?

JOHNSON: Earlier on, the government should have been more aggressive about invoking the Defense Production Act to allocate resources in a better way. Now, it really comes down to the right messaging. As you just pointed out, this little 10 cent device really does save lives if people are willing to use it. And so it's up to our leaders to emphasize the importance of a good hygiene, physical distancing. It's it tragic because since mid-April, Wolf, we have known that mask does make a difference. We've known how to flatten the curve and combat this virus.

But we're now seeing our second resurgence here in the fall because people are lowering their guards and they're getting sloppy and we see another spike and that's -- it's really tragic. We could have done better. This did not have to happen, Wolf.

BLITZER: Jeh Johnson, the former secretary of Homeland Security, thanks so much for joining us, Mr. Secretary. JOHNSON: Thank you.

BLITZER: President Trump's round robin of political campaign rallies continues later today using the same lines from state to state, like lock them up. But will his strategy from 2016 work in 2020? We have more on that when we come back.

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[18:25:00]

BLITZER: With only 16 days left in the campaign, the president's closing flurry of rallies coincides with record surges of coronavirus cases across the country and a dangerous rise in hospitalizations. The White House task force says failure to use measures like social distancing will lead to preventable deaths. That was in their weekly report on Wisconsin. The state posted a record high yesterday on the very same day the president held a huge rally there without social distancing.

CNN Politics Reporter and Editor at Large Chris Cillizza is joining us right now. Chris, these rallies go against guidance from the CDC and most of the president's own top medical advisers. What do you make of his refusal to scale back these campaign events at such a dangerous time?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Sure. I mean, two things, one, he likes to hear his name chanted and to be applauded, which who doesn't, right? But he is the president of the United States. You have a different sort of responsibility. And number two, Wolf, Donald Trump, we've seen this time and time again, public statements, tweets, things just the way he acts. He's got a twisted understanding of what it means to be masculine. He thinks that this is tough. He thinks this is showing the virus who is boss.

You know, I'll say -- I said it last week, I'm going to say it again with you. The coronavirus doesn't care whether you believe in it or not or whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, whether you like Donald Trump or hate Donald Trump. He seems to not get that. I'll remind people, it's not just that they don't respect social distancing at his rallies that they don't really enforce mask policies.

It's also this is a president who mocks the former vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, at 77 years old, for wearing a mask, for being careful and following guidelines. It's not just sort of Donald Trump being ignoring the rules. It's even worse than that, actually.

BLITZER: You would have thought the president would have learned something from his own bout with COVID-19. He spent four days at the Walter Reed Medical Center outside of Washington, D.C., but he didn't emerge apparently changed very much afterwards.

Poll after poll, Chris, shows that voters trust Joe Biden more than they President Trump when it comes to the pandemic. Aren't these rallies widening potentially that credibility gap? CILLIZZA: Yes. I mean, look, Wolf, there are 16 days left in the election, as you said. Donald Trump did surprise many people, myself included, when he won last time.

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That said, he is further behind now than he was against Hillary Clinton. He is being outspent worse now than he was against Hillary Clinton in important states. And, and this is the most important thing, it gets back to your question, Wolf, he is not a radical outsider running to shake up Washington.

He's an incumbent president with a four-year record that right now and maybe for all time, but certainly right now is being defined at how he has responded and candidly not responded to a pandemic that has killed over 200,000 Americans, second over eight million, you know, projections, I don't want to get into all the numbers and projections, but that it could get significantly worse as you're talking with Secretary Johnson in the last segment.

So I think it's a very different race. I think there are a lot of people who are haunted by the ghosts of 2016 that Donald -- we didn't think Donald Trump was going to win, he wound up winning. It was a very different race. Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump is not an outsider, he's the incumbent. The coronavirus has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and a large majority, Wolf, to your point, in our polling and every other poll I've seen, disapproved of the way in which he has handled it and trusts Joe Biden more than Donald Trump to get it right.

BLITZER: When it comes to the coronavirus.

CILLIZZA: Right.

BLITZER: Trump campaign rallies are unlikely I suspect to broaden the president's coalition.

CILLIZZA: No.

BLITZER: At this late stage in the race, 16 days left to go, is it enough for the president to just cater to his base out there, make sure they all show up and vote?

CILLIZZA: No. No. It's not. I'll remind people, and this doesn't take away from the fact Donald Trump won the electoral college, but when people say, well, it was enough last time. But Donald Trump lost the popular vote by 2.8 million votes. So yes, he won the presidency the way we elected -- I think no one I don't think should question that. That said, it's not as though his base won in 56 percent of the vote last time around, the popular vote. And no, it's not enough, Wolf.

But I think the issue here is that people around him know that his base isn't just a nothing. You know what, honestly? Maybe even Donald Trump knows it but this car doesn't have another gear, Wolf. There is no other place that he can go. He has one message to one group of people and it's fear. It's playing into anxiety. It's playing into a lot of times racial and xenophobic animosity. That's the message.

There isn't a message -- the message that suburban women can be, where you live would be burned down if it wasn't for Donald Trump. That's not working. I would urge people to go and look at Kate Bolduan's piece that she did -- out colleague that she did across Philadelphia, in the Pittsburgh suburbs and the Philadelphia suburbs, talking to women who voted for Donald Trump in 2016, and they basically said this whole suburban message that the suburbs are going to be lit on fire, I'm not buying it.

BLITZER: Yes. Kate did an excellent, excellent report.

Chris Cillizza, thank you very much for that.

CILLIZZA: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: After a chaotic first debate, a presidential health crisis, a controversial debate cancellation and competing town halls, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, they will face-off one last time. The final presidential debate is coming up and a special, our special live coverage will start Thursday 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi says only 48 hours remain to get a stimulus deal done to get much needed relief to Americans before the November 3rd election. So will lawmakers be able to get it done?

Congressman Max Rose of New York is standing by live. We will discuss.

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[18:37:33]

BLITZER: President Trump just landed in Reno, Nevada, briefly, very briefly, spoke to reporters and he said this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All of the crowds have been incredible and they have been incredible size, too. I don't think there's anybody that's covered that properly because the kind of size that we have, I don't think has ever been done before and the enthusiasm that we have, I don't think anybody has ever had more enthusiasm. So it's a real honor. We will see you in a little while, I assume you're all going and we'll see you over in Carson City.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- update on the stimulus talk (INAUDIBLE) --

TRUMP: We're talking about it. I think Nancy Pelosi is maybe coming along. We'll find out. We want to do it. I want to do it at a bigger number than she wants. That doesn't mean all the Republicans agree with me but I think they will in the end. If she would go along, I think they would, too, on stimulus. So let's see what happens. Thank you very much. See you over there.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: You just heard the president say he wants a bigger economic stimulus package than the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi earlier today said the clock is ticking and a deal must be reached with the Treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin within the next 48 hours if they want to pass a desperately needed stimulus bill before the November 3rd election. A bill that millions of Americans right now are so desperate to see pass in some form. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Forty-eight only relates to if we want to get it done before the election, which we do.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Well, don't you?

PELOSI: Yes, so which we do but we're saying to them, we have to freeze the design on some of these things. Are we going with it or not? And what is the language? I'm optimistic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Democratic Congressman Max Rose of New York is joining us right now.

Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. Let me get your reaction to what we just heard from the president and from the speaker. Are you optimistic that a deal between the administration and the House of Representatives can be worked out in the next 48 hours and then presumably the president will squeeze the Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell to pass it in the Senate?

REP. MAX ROSE (D-NY): Well, look, I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of a 48-hour deadline. No one should be walking away from these negotiations, not while we have millions of Americans suffering and millions of Americans who don't want to wait five months, six months until a new administration and a new Senate gets settled in. Now, hearing the president say those words, I'm happy to hear he wants a big stimulus.

[18:35:04]

Suffice it to say that's not where he was two months ago. The Democratic Party needs to learn to a certain extent how to declare victory and go home. It was through sheer force of will, reason and persuasion that we pushed the Republican party to the point that they are at. We should pass a bold and nonetheless bipartisan bill out of the House and then put the pressure and the focus of the nation where it should be, on Mitch McConnell, who has only expressed support for this point for a skinny bill.

It's a good thing we can have a skinny plan to beat the Nazis. But we -- let me cause up by saying this, though, about Mitch McConnell. He's not a demigod. OK. He's just a rich guy from the Midwest. We have pushed him before to do the right thing. Just remember the Victims Compensation Fund where we were there for 9/11 first responders. At first, he was saying we don't have the money or that's just a blue state problem, and then we forced him to do it. The stories of 9/11 first responders forced him to do it and we will do it again with COVID relief.

BLITZER: Well, tell us what's going on in your congressional district Staten Island, in New York, parts of Brooklyn, I understand. How desperate are a lot of the people there? How badly do they need some serious economic assistance right now to help them pay the bills, pay the rent, feed their families?

ROSE: Well, people are in desperate need of direct assistance, whether it is extended unemployment, stimulus checks and the like. But we also cannot forget about the importance of state and local aid. If we don't have that, you will see thousands of New York City workers, whether it's cops, firemen, teachers, sanitation workers and so many others potentially laid off. You'll see a dramatic reduction in social services. You'll see tolls increased.

You'll see transportation cut incredibly and transportation is a social justice issue. So at this point, everything is on the line. That's why we need a bold bill. We can't have something small like Mitch McConnell had pushed in the past. We have to have something that is commensurate with the scale of the public health and economic crisis that we're facing right now.

BLITZER: So what's your message to the speaker? You're a Democrat. She's obviously the top Democrat in the House of Representatives. The speaker of the House. What's your message to her at this very sensitive moment?

ROSE: Sure. Well, the first message is, and this is a message to the entire Democratic leadership, do not under any circumstances figure this next election into your calculations. OK. We should not for a second be saying to ourselves or publicly, we're not going to make a deal with the Trump administration because it could potentially help him in his campaign. That is why the American people hate politics.

The second message is, of course, don't give up on things like state and local aid. OK. Then we're just passing a Mitch McConnell skinny bill. We are so close to being there for the American people and in the process we will show them that we can still be bipartisan in this country and we can still put country first.

BLITZER: But do you believe that if Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, and the speaker work out a deal, the president will in fact squeeze, pressure Mitch McConnell, the Republican majority in the Senate to pass it as well so he can sign it into law and that money can go to all those desperate people out there?

ROSE: Listen, Mitch McConnell has demonstrated time and again that he is a fully owned subsidiary of Donald Trump, Incorporated. He's a blind sycophant. So he, I do believe, that will do it. Not because he necessarily cares. But with that being said as well, though, I'll never give up hope on this country. OK? I'll never give up hope that we will finally be able to meet this crisis with a dramatic governmental action, state and local aid, more money for testing, more stimulus checks and the like, because as we've said time and again, millions of people are suffering.

BLITZER: They certainly are. But you've heard it and I've heard it as well from some Democrats if a deal is worked out with only 16 or 15 or 14 days left, the president will use that to his political advantage, get the checks going out there and it could help him potentially get reelected. You've heard that from some of your Democratic colleagues, right?

ROSE: Stop. This is everything that's wrong here. OK? Think about it from this perspective. OK? If you are struggling to make rent, if you're struggling to keep your small business open, do you think people care about an election? If we delay this until the Biden administration, we're talking about three, four, five months, the American people cannot wait.

If we continue to just kick the can down the road until the next election and the next election, this vicious cycle in American politics will never end. We have to meet the needs of the American people. That's why they elected us. Not to plan for our next election.

[18:45:02]

BLITZER: If it's not done between now and November 3rd, do you think it could be done during the lame-duck session assuming if the president were to lose the election?

ROSE: Absolutely, I think that that's possible. As I said, and this is why I oppose some, you know, 48-hour deadline. It was wrong when Donald Trump walked away from the negotiating table. It would be wrong if the Democrats walk away from the negotiating table. And that is the case after the election as well because all I know and all I can guarantee is that with each passing day without action, the American people will be suffering more.

This pandemic is not going away and this economic crisis is not going away, and the only ones that can step in the United States Congress and the president of the United States.

BLITZER: It's a huge, huge moment right now. We'll see what happens. The pressure is clearly there.

Congressman Max Rose of New York, thanks so much for joining us.

ROSE: Thank you again.

BLITZER: So there is more news we're following here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Israel right now is making its second attempt at lifting its coronavirus lockdown after its first lockdown ended too quickly resulting in a dramatic, very painful deadly surge of new cases.

We'll take you there for the latest straight ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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[18:50:39] BLITZER: Europe is scrambling right now to contain a second wave of coronavirus infections across the continent. Countries are implementing stricter rules to try to tamp down the spike in cases but for the fifth straight day, Italy is now reporting another record number of new COVID cases.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has more on that from Naples -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this evening the Italian prime minister Giuseppe Conte announced new measures to try to slow the second wave of coronavirus here with the focus on limiting public gatherings, particularly nightlife. The urgency of the situation was driven home today when the authorities announced for the fifth day in a row record increases in the number of new COVID cases.

The numbers, however, don't tell the entire story. Testing is five times what it was before, and the number of patients in intensive care is just a fifth of what it was back then. Winter, however, is coming and this second wave of coronavirus is just beginning -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Ben Wedeman, in Naples, Italy, for us.

In France right now, they are also setting a new record for coronavirus infections with more than 32,000 new cases in 24 hours over the weekend.

CNN's Melissa Bell has more on what officials there are doing to try to turn things around -- Melissa.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, here in France we saw in 10 French cities including the greater Paris region the first full night of curfew between 9:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. People were at home. Shops, restaurants, anything that might have been open after 9:00 p.m. was made to close and this is going to go on for at least the next four weeks. The idea, of course bringing France's soaring COVID-19 figures back under control.

And yet even as that first night of full curfew came into effect, Wolf, another record announced on Saturday night. More than 32,000 new cases for the whole of France. Positivity rate also record 13.1 percent. The number is rising fast. It is a question of whether the curfews can bring them back under control in order that the knock-on effect, which is the number of people entering ICUs is also brought under control.

We are now here in France in a state of emergency which means that should extra restrictions be necessary if the curfews in those 10 cities are not enough to get those figures back under control, more restrictions can be introduced by local authorities -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Melissa Bell reporting from France, thank you.

In England, meanwhile, the mayor of Manchester is now explaining why he's going against Prime Minister Boris Johnson's call to raise the COVID alert level in his city. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has that -- Salma.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the mayor of greater Manchester took to the Sunday talk shows to explain why he has refused to raise the COVID alert level of this city to very high. He's essentially making a risk versus reward argument. The mayor says that under these limited local lockdowns, the risk to affected businesses is too high in exchange for too little reward in terms of bringing the infection rates down.

That's why he's arguing for a nationwide lockdown instead. He says that would be more effective at bringing infection rates down and would provide a larger economic package for businesses. Now Prime Minister Boris Johnson's government has given an unequivocal no to calls for a nationwide lockdown.

It's important to remember, Wolf, that Manchester is just one city. Imagine having to negotiate on a regional level, city by city, town by town, that's what's so difficult about these localized restrictions -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Salma, thank you. Salma Abdelaziz reporting for us.

Let's go to Israel right now where the government there has just eased restrictions from its second major lockdown.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is joining us from Jerusalem -- Oren.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Israel has begun easing restrictions as part of its second general lockdown because of continued drop in coronavirus numbers. We saw a couple of days last week with about 1500 new cases a day. That's down from a record 9,000 cases in one day just a few weeks ago. Crucially the infection rate also dropping now in mid to low single digits. A dramatic improvement from the more than 10 percent we saw at the height of the second wave of infections.

As part of the easing, citizens will not be required to stay within a kilometer of their home, beaches will reopen, natural parks, and some businesses as well. Now there are some red cities throughout the country. Those will remain closed because of a high infection rate. The prime minister saying he wants to see numbers drop there as well before they are reopened --Wolf.

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BLITZER: All right. Oren Liebermann in Jerusalem, thanks very much. Thanks to all of our international correspondents.

Coming up, as cases of the coronavirus are spiking here in the United States, the president is out on the campaign trail holding yet another packed rally tonight. This as a top doctor on his Coronavirus Task Force is actually questioning whether masks are effective.

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