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The Situation Room

Soon: Final Face-Off between Trump, Biden; W.H.: Trump May Disregard Some Questions and Attack Biden's Record on China; New: Lecterns are 12 Plus Feet Apart, First Question will go to Trump; FDA Approves Remdesivir To Treat Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients; U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 222,000 And 8.3 Million Cases With More Than 1,000 Deaths Just In The Last Day; Feds: Russian State Sponsored Hackers Successfully Stole Data From State & Local Govts No Indication Election Systems Compromised. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 22, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room, we're following breaking news.

We're just hours away from the final debate between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden, the most critical moment yet with just 12 days left in the race for the White House.

Tonight, we'll break down what's at stake for both candidates and what we're expecting to see on stage.

We're also tracking the very critical path the 270 electoral votes with five key battleground states front and center right now, Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona. As of now, more than 46 million Americans have already voted. Their votes have been cast nationwide.

All of this as the coronavirus pandemic is sadly surging once again. The U.S. death till now topic 222,000 Americans with more than 8.3 million cases. More than 1,100 Americans died of COVID-19 just yesterday.

And we've just learned that the FDA has approved the drug Remdesivir to treat hospitalized COVID-19 patients making it the first to approved COVID treatment in the U.S. Lots going on.

Let's start our coverage up with the scene of tonight's debate. CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta is in Nashville for us.

Jim, we're learning that the President was actually tested for the coronavirus on his way there.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, President Trump was tested onboard Air Force One as he was enroute to Nashville. White House officials say he tested negative for the coronavirus just hours before his final debate with Joe Biden. The President, in the meantime appears to be doing more complaining about the debate than he is preparing for one. The President is also claiming he's created the greatest economy in U.S. history. But that's not true. As the U.S. is in the grips of the worst recession in decades. Mr. Trump is blaming it all on the virus clip, complaining the media only wants to talk about COVID-19 as the death toll from the pandemic keeps climbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): Joined by the First Lady, President Trump left for his final debate with democrat Joe Biden sounding combative as ever arguing in an interview with "60 Minutes" that he's created the best economy in U.S. history. Even as the nation is still reeling from the pandemic.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We created the greatest economy in the history of our country and the other side was coming in -

LESLEY STAHL, CBS HOST, "60 MINUTES": You know that's not true.

TRUMP: It is totally true.

STAHL: No.

ACOSTA: Aides say the President hasn't done much preparation for his face off with Biden. But Mr. Trump complained to Sinclair television about a new rule put in place to mute the microphones at times during the debate.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Would you shut up man.

ACOSTA: To avoid a repeat of the constant interruptions during their last encounter?

TRUMP: That's not fair. Plus, they change the topics which isn't fair, just happened.

ACOSTA: White House officials say the President may simply disregard some questions at the debate and attack Biden's record on China even though that might resurrect a recent revelation in the "New York Times" that Mr. Trump has had a secret Chinese bank account.

ALYSSA FARAH, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I'd say he's going to answer those topics, but he's also going to frankly answer the questions he wants to. If we don't get to China, he's prepared to bring up China and Joe Biden's disastrous record on it.

ACOSTA: President is also ranting about media coverage of the Coronavirus, claiming it's yet another conspiracy against him. All you hear is COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID. That's all they put on because they want to scare the hell out of everyone.

ACOSTA: Former President Barack Obama, who's campaigning for Biden, as he has been doing debate prep this week, said Mr. Trump isn't capable of ending the pandemic.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Donald Trump isn't suddenly going to protect all of us. He can't even take the basic steps to protect himself.

ACOSTA: During his own "60 Minutes" interview, Biden answered a nagging question about whether he would seek to expand the Supreme Court promising to create a commission to study the issue.

BIDEN: Bipartisan commission of scholars, constitutional scholars, Democrats, Republicans, liberal conservative, and I will ask them to over 180 days come back to me with recommendations as to how to reform the court system because it's getting out of whack the way which is being handled. And it's not about court packing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Foreign interference in our elections.

ACOSTA: Democrats are also raising questions about a warning from the Director of National Intelligence who said Iran is trying to interfere in the election to damage the President's chances.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I think we have to be very careful about any statements coming out about the election for the Intelligence Community at this time.

ACOSTA: The top two lawmakers on the Senate Intelligence Committee released a statement cautioning "To the American people and the media, we reiterate the need to be skeptical of sensationalist last minute claims about election infrastructure."

National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien said the foreign interference efforts detected so far appear limited in scope.

ROBERT O'BRIEN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ADVISOR: A very small number two or three across -- in different parts of the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:05:03]

ACOSTA: And the President is signaling he will be leveling more personal attacks at Joe Biden and his family, something the Biden campaign says it is ready for an ace to the President, are hoping he will interrupt Biden last during tonight's debate, not only because that turned off voters who thought Biden won the debate last time around but also because Trump advisors are desperate for the former vice president to have some kind of gaffe that will shake up this race.

As we know, Wolf, the President is running out of time for some kind of big change to the dynamic of this race. Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, only 12 days to go. Jim Acosta in Nashville for us. We'll get back to you.

Let's get some more on all that's going on. The former presidential advisor and CNN Senior Political Analyst David Gergen is with us. Our Chief Political Correspondent, Dana Bash is with us. And our special correspondent, Jamie Gangel is with us as well.

Dana, this is the final debate, what's at stake from your perspective for the candidates tonight?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot. A lot. Because look, we are in the final stretch. And yes, we have seen, you know, 10s of millions of people already voting. So, for them, this debate won't matter.

But there are still 10s of millions, if not more of people, probably just 10s of millions, who have yet to vote. And this could matter to the very, very slim sector of the electorate that has not decided.

Now, we don't know if those people have not decided who they're going to vote for or at this point, whether they're going to vote at all. But regardless, a debate like these matters. And all we need to do is look at the negative effect that the first debate had in not just public polls, I'm told, internal polls from the President and also down ballot Republicans, a very negative effect.

And so that is why the stakes are so high for both the President and the former vice president tonight.

Will it dramatically change the shape of the race? Maybe not. But that's not where we are right now. We are at a place where the margins matter. That's why tonight is going to be so critical.

BLITZER: And 10s of millions and many 10s of millions of Americans will be watching.

You know, David, the White House is hinting that regardless of what questions are actually asked by the moderator, the President may simply pivot to the attacks he wants to make not necessarily even answering the questions, but just make points he wants to make attacking Joe Biden.

So, are you expecting any real change in strategy, as far as the President is concerned from the previous debate?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, so far, I haven't been able to figure out what their strategy has been. It's hard to know what they're going to change from.

The -- but I have to say, I think that Dana is absolutely right, this is a critical moment. They are coming down the homestretch. And Biden is about two links ahead. And unless, you know, Donald Trump can find some way to turn this around, I think he's going to stay pretty close to that.

The -- and one of the things that's really striking to me, Wolf, is I think it's best -- I think it's fair to say that President Trump has had more airtime than any other candidate in history coming out of the White House. Just all the times he's been in the rallies and everything else, with the sickness and everything and on all the crises human face, he's had a huge amount of airtime. And yet over 14 rallies, he still has not had gotten that message across the American people about what his next term would be like. And they're not rallying to him in the way they did in -- when he first was elected.

BLITZER: Yes, so much at stake tonight.

You know, Jamie, the President's reaction to Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes," I suspect it provides some clues about how he's going to handle questions from another woman tonight, the moderator, Kristen Welker, both, both of them are excellent, solid, very respected journalists.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And as we like to say, Wolf, there is a tweet for everything. With Donald Trump, and sure enough, this morning he tweeted a "Look at the bias, hatred and rudeness on behalf of "60 Minutes" and CBS. Tonight's anchor, Kristen Welker, is far worse."

So, you know, Donald Trump is sometimes very transparent. I think that sets the stage.

I think also, Wolf, when you see a tweet like that, you have to remember, that's what sends those down ballot Republicans that Dana was talking about. It sends them running for cover. A senior Republican said to me that between remarks like that attacking women, and his attacks on Dr. Fauci, the strategy that David was looking for is just politically insane. It makes no sense at all, Wolff.

BLITZER: You're absolutely right.

Dana, you want to make a point?

BASH: Yes. The point is that this is -- not only is it completely inappropriate, it's false. Kristen Welker -- I don't know Lesley Stahl, but obviously I've respected her for many years, I do know Kristen Welker and she is a Class A journalist straight down the middle as a reporter at conscientious human being. And the fact that the President is trying to kind of work the ref and rattle her, bully her, frankly, it is ridiculous on its face.

[17:10:18]

But it's also really, as Jamie was saying, really bad politics. I've not talked to any of the President's advisors who say, this is a great idea. Why don't you go after a woman of color who's going to be sitting in a very prominent role tonight while you have a huge gender gap right now? It makes absolutely no sense. And it's Exhibit A of his lack of impulse control.

BLITZER: Yes, it's really, really sad to hear that.

David, you want to make a point?

GERGEN: Yes, I do.

Yes, we talk a lot about how much that means to Trump. It also means a great deal to Joe Biden tonight.

You know, he has to lead. But he needs to hold on to it, he needs to solidify it.

And if anything, Wolf, if he can extend his lead a little bit, he would be so much better off after election. With a big margin of big victory, he'll have much more power and authority to get things done. So he has a lot at stake in this too.

BLITZER: They both have a lot at stake.

You know, Jamie, we just got some details from the presidential debate condition, the candidates will be exactly 12 feet eight inches apart on the stage. The President will be getting the first question. How do you think that potentially could shape the debate?

GANGEL: So one of the things we've heard about is the mute button. And I think the thing that is important to remember is, the audience at home may not hear if Donald Trump interrupts or tries to speak while Joe Biden is speaking. But former Vice President Biden will be able likely to hear that on the stage.

And our understanding is that in preparing for tonight, one of the big things that they've worked on is don't get distracted by that man who is 12 feet and eight inches away from him.

The other thing I think is worth mentioning is, you know, there's been -- we've heard a lot about the advice that aides have been giving Donald Trump. At the end of the day, there's one thing that we've seen in the last four years, Donald Trump trusts his own instincts for better or for worse. And he didn't think he was going to win in 2016. One of his aides said to me, and he can't quite believe he's not going to win in 2020 despite the polls.

So, I think tonight, maybe we'll see a little self-deprecating humor, maybe a moment of discipline. But I think it's a real question, how long that lasts, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, that's an important point as well.

You know, Dana, the -- Joe Biden has actually been off the campaign trail for, what, the last three or four or five days basically preparing for the debate tonight. What does that say about how he views the stakes in this final debate? Because he's largely been, yesterday, we saw the former president out there on the campaign trail, delivering a very powerful 35-minute speech in his favor, but he's sort of been invisible these last several days.

BASH: That's right. He's been hunkered down. He has been doing a lot of debate prep, some interviews, but mostly debate prep.

And, you know, it's -- the Republicans, particularly people who are close to Trumper are throwing him some shade saying, you know, what's he doing, he's making the same mistake that Hillary Clinton may have made and going off the trail instead of going to some of those key battleground states that she ended up losing by just, you know, a handful of votes, you know, metaphorically speaking.

But having said that, he is taking it seriously. He understands the stakes. Jamie mentioned part of this, I was told that what he's been doing is he's been in his house in Wilmington, doing prep with his advisors.

But there have been times where the veteran democratic lawyer Bob Bauer, who plays Donald Trump, in his debate, prep just goes after the former vice president, interrupts him constantly, incessantly in order to get him prepared for what Jamie just described, which is, you might not be able to hear Donald Trump's microphone if you're in the audience. But if you're Joe Biden standing 12 feet away, you certainly can. So he's trying to practice not getting rattled if Donald Trump, even a little bit act like it did in the first debate.

BLITZER: Yes. All right, guys, everybody standby. There's a lot more we're following. We're going to take a quick break.

But up next, we're going to go back to Nashville and talk about tonight's high stakes contest with the mayor of Atlanta, there you see her, Keisha Lance Bottoms. She's there.

And later this hour, I'll go one on one with the White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows. He's standing by live as well.

Lots going on. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:19:16]

BLITZER: We're coming down to the final debate between President Trump and his Democratic challenger Joe Biden.

The mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms, is joining us right now. She's in Nashville.

You're in Nashville tonight, Mayor, for this critical final presidential debate. Obviously you support Joe Biden. I assume that's why you're there. You're one of his invited guests.

What's at stake for the former vice president tonight and for that matter for the president as they face off one last time?

MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTONS (D-GA), ATLANTA: Well, Wolf, this is an opportunity for voters to see what who their choices are. It's very simple. Do you want the adult in the room or do you want someone who refuses to even acknowledge that we still need affordable care in this country in the midst of a pandemic.

[17:20:01]

There are still undecided voters out there. And I know that Joe Biden will do what Joe Biden always does. He will remind us of his experience, he will remind us of his vision for the future. He'll also show empathy. And he'll also show that he is an adult in the room. We need an adult as president. That sounds very simple. But when it comes to Donald Trump, you can't take anything for granted.

BLITZER: You believe, Mayor, that in Georgia, your home state, there are still many undecided voters, people whose minds potentially could be changed tonight, or should the vice president, for example simply focus on motivating Democrats to turn out to support him, to actually vote, because we know a lot of those hardcore Democrats did not bother to vote four years ago. And that's one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected president.

BOTTOMS: I think it has to be a bit of both. We've seen a record turnout in Georgia, but there's still so many people who have not turned out to vote.

And what concerned me, Wolf, when I went to vote just a couple of days ago for early voting, there was no line, I was the only person in line. My concern is that Democrats are going to take this for granted in the same way that we did in 2016. So there's still an opportunity in our state to cast an early vote and certainly show up on the Election Day. But Joe Biden will speak to those voters who haven't cast their vote yet, as well as those undecided voters and those important swing voters.

BLITZER: Vice President Biden, as you know, stepped off the camp -- a campaign trail over these past several days to prepare for tonight's debate. Do you believe it was a mistake for him not to be out there in key battleground states, like Florida or Pennsylvania or Michigan, for example, battleground states where, you know, Donald Trump he does two or three of these events normally during the course of a day?

BOTTOMS: I absolutely don't think it was a mistake. I think that it's important for Joe Biden to be prepared for this evening.

We know Joe, so a couple of days of Joe Biden not being out on the campaign trail, really, it's not going to make a difference. But what will be important is for him to speak directly to the American people.

I was in Miami as his guest, the first debate over a year ago. So the American people have had ample opportunity to see and hear from Joe Biden. I don't think that a couple of days will make a difference in this race.

BLITZER: Yes. There could -- the stakes are enormous tonight. There could be 70 or 80 or 90 million Americans watching tonight's debate. So it's really, really significant.

The President as you know, Mayor, has already criticized tonight's debate moderator Kristen Welker of NBC News, how do you think the President will respond to tough questions from her, a woman of color?

BOTTOMS: Well, we know that the President has a problem with women, he especially has a problem with women of color. We've seen him attack this moderator. We've seen him attack Lesley Stahl, we've seen them attack Kamala Harris and the list goes on and on and on. This is a fundamental issue with this man that when he can't get his way, he throws a tantrum like a chow and he begins to call names. But I think it's an affront to all children across America to even say that they would behave this way.

BLITZER: In an effort to limit interruptions as you know, the candidates' microphones will be muted during portions of tonight's debate. Are you hopeful this will lead to a more substantive debate less arguing back and forth as we saw in the that first debate, Donald Trump specifically interrupting the former vice president almost with every answer?

BOTTOMS: I am hopeful. But again, I want to remind the American people we're having to change the rules for this man because he can't abide by decency, and common courtesy, even in the midst of a debate.

And if this is really what this presidency has been all about, this is a man who rewrites the rules to his benefit. He shows no empathy. And he can't even behave himself for a couple of hours to exchange ideas and to convey to the American people what he will do for this country, because he's not done much at all. And he certainly has not shown the American people that he will do any more than he's already done other than divide us.

BOTTOMS: As you know, the Biden campaign is suggesting that the President will probably personally attack Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden, the family tonight, how do you think the vice president should respond to those attacks?

BOTTOMS: I mean, it's tough, Wolf. I'm a parent, you're a parent. It's tough. And it's especially tough to have someone attack your surviving son.

This is a man, again, who lacks empathy. There is nothing that is too low for him. So, it's my hope that Joe Biden can as best as any parent can ignore him, but it really speaks to the failure of Donald Trump. He is not a decent human being.

[17:25:04]

BLITZER: Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms of Atlanta, thanks so much for joining us. I know you're a huge, huge Biden supporter, you're down there for this debate tonight. Thanks so much for joining us.

BOTTOMS: Thank you for having me.

BLITZER: Coming up on my interview with the White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows, we're about to get a very different perspective. He's also down there in Nashville, the scene of the final presidential debate. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:23]

BLITZER: All eyes are on tonight's final presidential debate. Our special coverage continues here in "The Situation Room". But first, there's breaking pandemic news we're also following. The FDA has just approved the drug remdesivir to treat hospitalized coronavirus patients, making it the first approved COVID-19 treatment in the United States, that comes as the U.S. death toll now tops 222,000 people with more than 8.3 million confirmed coronavirus cases. More than 1,100 Americans died of COVID-19 just yesterday.

Our National Correspondent Erica Hill has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like every day the numbers keep increasing.

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not just an increase at this El Paso funeral home. The average daily number of COVID-related deaths is rising in half the states across the country. 1,124 reported nationwide on Wednesday. The first-time deaths have topped 1,000 in more than a month.

DR. ALI KHAN, DEAN, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA MEDICAL CENTER COLLEGE OF PUBLIC HEALTH: There's a whole lot of people who are dead in America that completely preventable would not have been dead if we had use science and good public health tools.

HILL (voice-over): That's the findings from a new Columbia University study, which faults the administration's anemic response for as many as 210,000 COVID deaths. And experts warn there is more pain ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't just have one or two hotspots. We actually have virus hotspots surging all across the country.

HILL (voice-over): New cases rising in 31 states. Only Hawaii showing a meaningful decline. North Dakota which continues to have more cases per capita than any other state just suspended contact tracing because it can't keep up. This overflow hospital in Wisconsin now treating its first COVID patient.

GOV. TONY EVERS (D), WISCONSIN: Make no mistake about this. This is an urgent crisis.

HILL (voice-over): Florida just reported its highest daily case count since mid-August. Ohio repeatedly shattering its own records.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does not seem like we're even starting to get to a plateau.

HILL (voice-over): Several states reporting record numbers of COVID- related hospitalizations, including New Jersey. But the former Governor Chris Christie is now urging Americans to mask up in a new op-ed admitting he was wrong not to wear one when prepping President Trump for the first debate. Christie decries the polarization of masks, writing, "It's not a partisan or cultural symbol, not a sign of weakness or virtue". Calling out the politics, but not the man who led that charge. DR. ZEKE EMANUEL, FORMER WHITE HOUSE HEALTH POLICY ADVISER: We have a President who'd made fun of wearing masks, who didn't let the scientists run this process and the task force. And that has been the problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL (voice-over): And just one more note on El Paso, for the second time in 10 days, Texas Governor Greg Abbott has announced he is sending additional medical personnel and equipment to help deal with the surge in cases El Paso County today, reporting a record daily high for new cases. They're just 18 ICU beds available in the area, Wolf.

BLITZER: That's also heartbreaking indeed. Erica Hill in New York for us, thank you very much.

Joining us now to talk about this and a whole lot more, including tonight's debate is the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. Mark, thank you so much for joining us. I know you're there in Nashville at the debate hall. We're going to get to that in just a few moments. But let's talk about this pandemic first.

The President keeps saying that we're, quote, rounding the corner, but you look at -- you just heard the numbers. Just yesterday, there were more than 60,000 new confirmed coronavirus infections and more than 1,100 deaths just in one day. Just yesterday, only one state's case numbers right now we're heading in the right direction. And as you can also see, we'll show our viewers, hospitalizations are also on the rise as well. So, how can the President say we're rounding the corner when all of these indicators are showing we're potentially, and I hope it's not going to happen, entering a very dangerous new surge?

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, hopefully we're not entering a dangerous new surge. But I think it's three different things. You lead out the segment, Wolf, with a great announcement from the FDA approving remdesivir for those that are hospitalized. Hopefully, we'll have some of the therapeutics that the President was able to actually use in and have available to him at Walter Reed under Emergency Use Authorization for those that are not hospitalized is a therapeutic going in. And then as we look to the vaccine development that hopefully is more like weeks away then months away, those are all good news.

[17:35:02]

But I think when we look at this, where we know that we're entering into the fall, we have additional cases rising. Part of that is due to a very robust testing regimen that we have. I know that we've provided over 150 million tests, trying to make sure that tests are available to everybody. And when you test more, you're going to get more cases, the hospitalization -- you hit a key point, what we want to make sure of is that hospital facilities are not overrun. And if they're going into an additional area, the President stands ready, along with FEMA to make sure that we can provide emergency provisions there.

But when we look at it, we're seeing and comparing us to Europe and to a number of other nations right now. You know, the picture there is more bleak than it is here in the United States. So, as we start to look it, I do believe we're rounding the corner, mainly because we know how to deal with this virus. We know also, hopefully, how to keep the contagion down. And we're going to be all hands-on deck until we get that done.

BLITZER: We certainly hope the therapeutics are going to slow these -- the deaths certainly down. We certainly hope we're rounding the corner.

MEADOWS: Right.

BLITZER: But it's so depressing when we see these numbers. These are real people, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters. It's so sad to see what's going on. I don't know if you saw this study, Mark.

MEADOWS: It is.

BLITZER: That --

MEADOWS: You know, and I -- no, I didn't, I didn't see this study.

BLITZER: There's a study from Columbia University.

MEADOWS: Yes, I saw you reference it, yes.

BLITZER: It found that anywhere from 130,000 to 210,000 lives potentially could have been saved over these past eight, nine, 10 months with a more robust federal response. So, why did the President say, you know, just this week, when he was asked what he would have done differently, he said not much?

MEADOWS: Well, I can tell you that if your study says that they can save 210,000 lives, I haven't read it, but it would be very, very difficult to imagine that scenario. So they're saying that 98 percent of the deaths that have occurred today could have been saved, just by taking different action. I don't know that any scientist or any doctor would agree with that particular analysis. Again, I haven't read the study. I'll be glad to do that tonight. As you're breaking that news here.

But I think probably the bigger thing that we look at, Wolf, is that we have got to figure a way that not only we can keep our government, our households, our schools open, but we can do it in a safe way. And that's what the President has not only encouraged us to do but demanded us to do. And yet, sometimes we see what we have here is a clock that keeps talking about the number of cases that we have, that really doesn't talk about the advances that we need to make on the therapeutics, vaccines and treatments side of things.

BLITZER: We only hope those will work. We would appreciate -- tell the President we would also appreciate if he would say what the former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie said today and he had COVID too, as you know, wear a mask. I don't think this is a political statement or anything. MEADOWS: And the President --

BLITZER: Just go ahead and do it. And don't have these rallies where people are just so close together, not wearing masks, it's potentially a super spreader. It's so dangerous. You know that Mark?

MEADOWS: Well, with all due respect, the President has talked about wearing masks, they do pass out the mask. But here's the other thing --

BLITZER: But he should be an example. He should be an example.

MEADOWS: Hold on, hold on. Let me -- Wolf, let me finish my statement and then you can -- we'll go back and forth. Here's the other thing that we need to make sure of. You know, we've got CNN reporters, other reporters that wear masks religiously, and yet they're coming down with this. They're actually -- so the mask is not the panacea to make sure that this doesn't spread.

Will it help in confined spaces? Certainly, it helps. I've got my mask. I've had it on. It'll go back on here in just a second.

BLITZER: Good.

MEADOWS: The minute that I finished speaking to you. But at the same time is we need to make sure that we do follow the science, the President's encouraging us to do that. I encourage all Americans to do that. But we also need to understand that wearing a mask, if we could say we mandate mask and everybody can go back to work, then that would be something to consider. But even the doctors, even the most -- even Dr. Fauci would say that that is not something that would protect all Americans.

BLITZER: No, but he does say wear a mask. That's -- and do engage in social distancing. That is so, so critical.

Let's talk about the debate. You're in Nashville right now. The President has said --

MEADOWS: Sure.

BLITZER: -- he may actually change his strategy tonight and interrupt Joe Biden less. So will we actually see a shift from him on the stage tonight during those 90 minutes?

MEADOWS: Yes, I don't know that the President has said exactly what you said. I think those are other people talking about what the President said.

[17:40:00]

But certainly, as he is prepped and gotten ready for this debate, looking at the way that he interacts with Joe Biden, hopefully Joe Biden won't interrupt him. I can also say that he wants to take the case to the American people. He's got accomplishments to do that. The contrast tonight will be the accomplishments of President Donald J. Trump versus the rhetoric of Vice President Biden. And so, if we're going to compare record to record, we welcome that challenge.

BLITZER: Earlier today, your White House Director of Strategic Communications, Alyssa Farah, said that the President will, quote, answer the questions he wants to answer. So, what is that been, Mark, will he answer the moderator's questions? Or does he plan to bring up the issues he wants to discuss?

MEADOWS: Well, I think he plans to -- in fact, I know he plans to answer the moderator's question and continue to answer those questions. Hopefully, the moderator will bring up questions that a lot of people want to know about, want to hear about. You know, for example, some of the late breaking news that has come up with regards to potential corruption with Joe Biden. I think that's a valid question that the American voting populace would want to know out. I'm not sure that the question will get asked, but hopefully, if not, the President will give Joe a chance to answer that.

BLITZER: I'm sure the former Vice President will have some questions he wants to ask of the President as well. Some members of the Trump and Pence families as you know, Mark, did not follow the debate Commission's rule to wear a mask throughout the previous presidential and vice-presidential debates for that matter. Can you assure us that you and the others will certainly wear mask this time, because as we all know, it's so important?

MEADOWS: Yes. We've all been tested. I've actually already been over at the debate hall behind us to look at the venue wearing a mask, they're wearing inside. It's mandatory, that's part of the rules this time. Was not mandatory last time, I want to stress that, Wolf.

And so, as we look at that, it's mandatory for anyone in the audience to wear a mask. And so, we'll comply with that. And I've already been over there, full mask in tow, and we'll have those discussions. But really, this is not about mask, it's not about really even a debate, it's really about a vision for America and who's willing to lead us for the next four years. And most Americans believe that they're better off today, in spite of the pandemic, knowing that this pandemic was not the fault of President Donald J. Trump. They're still better off than they were four or eight years ago, under a Bide-Obama administration.

BLITZER: Yes. I will point out that nearly 800,000 Americans just last week, according to the Department of Labor, had to file initial first- time unemployment benefits. So, those 800,000 are now unemployed Americans joining the millions of others who are unemployed.

MEADOWS: I agree.

BLITZER: They're certainly not better off than they were four years ago when they had jobs.

MEADOWS: I agree. And so, here's something that you and I can agree on, Wolf. We're going to call, you and I together, are going to call on Speaker Pelosi right now to get real about negotiations. We've come up four different times in terms of stimulus, Wolf, and Nancy Pelosi continues to say no, to a yes answer, which she'll give us something --

BLITZER: Where does it stand -- where does -- this is -- I agree with you. This is so critical right now.

MEADOWS: I know you do.

BLITZER: Millions of Americans are suffering right now. They need help, small business owners in North Carolina, your home state all over the country. So, where does it stand? I know you and the Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin, have been involved very closely in this, is there going to be a deal in the next day or so that the House of Representatives can pass and then send it to the Senate. And let's see what the Majority Leader Mitch McConnell does. What's your assessment?

MEADOWS: Well, I certainly hope so. I can tell you it's entered a new phase, Wolf, where we're having the chairman and chairwoman of each individual committee, both on the Democrat and Republican side talking to one another, looking at technical language. I've actually exchanged some technical language back and forth with some of the Speaker Pelosi staff to actually try to look at the text of what we're talking about. But I must say that I've been here before and when we agree to something, it seems like the goalposts gets moved back and it gets moved back again, it changes each and every time.

And so, it's incumbent upon your viewers to call their members of Congress and say, enough is enough, put politics aside, let's agree on something and let's get it done. I mean, we saw the Democrats in the Senate vote down at least $500 billion worth of stimulus and support for small businesses just this week. And so it's time to do that, but I'm hopeful that we can do it. We'll stay engaged until Nancy Pelosi says no or walks away.

BLITZER: Is the President ready to accept a $2 trillion deal?

[17:45:03]

MEADOWS: Yes. I think really the President has been very clear he's willing to go bigger. I mean, it really depends on what that is. If we want to increase the amount of money and direct payments to those hurting families, he's all in. We'll increase it. If he wants to increase the amount of money to small businesses, hotels, airlines, people in the restaurant and lodging business, were willing to increase it.

What happens is, some of the demands that the Speaker has made, actually are not based on real facts or real losses. She's looking at this particular travesty as an opportunity to get a liberal wish list passed through Congress and that's just not acceptable.

BLITZER: So, it looks like -- it's not -- there's not going to be a deal. Because as you and I know, millions and millions of Americans --

MEADOWS: Yes.

BLITZER: -- are juggling right now. They're unable to pay their rent, they're waiting in food lines. It's so heartbreaking. I see them waiting in food lines.

MEADOWS: It is.

BLITZER: And as I said to the Speaker the other day, Nancy Pelosi, in Washington, you got to compromise. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

MEADOWS: Wolf, you and I agree, we've gone exactly here on this particular issue. And we see the hurting people, I see it back home in North Carolina, you see it all over the country. And what we have to do is, say, now is the time. You know, right now we're at $1.9 trillion. To give you an perspective, when we had the financial meltdown, the housing meltdown, we're two -- more than two times the amount of money that we're willing to pass right now to help the American people and she's saying no to it. It just defies logic, and even her rank and file Democrats, whether they're moderates, or more on the progressive side, understand how unreasonable she's being.

And so, it's time that we get a bipartisan deal. The President stands ready, I stand ready. I'm encouraging us to go ahead and get this done.

BLITZER: So, if there's a $1.9 trillion deal, that you work out with Nancy Pelosi, and we all hope you can, does the President have the leverage to get Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans to approve it?

MEADOWS: Yes, I think at this particular point, the leverage that the President has, as the sitting President, and the ability to make phone calls and get enough votes to get it across the finish line is undeniable. Leader McConnell has been willing to say that if we've got a bipartisan agreement, where we have some of his Republican senators and some Republican House members, along with the vast majority of Democrat House members and senators, that he's willing to allow it to come to the floor for a vote.

And, so I don't know how we can set the table better for Speaker Pelosi than what we have. Now it's time for her to say, OK, take yes for an answer. Let's get help on the way. You know, listen, she didn't want checks going to Americans with Donald Trump's name on it or a letter that was going out prior to the election. We couldn't even do that, if we passed it today to do that.

So it's not going to affect the election. Let's get a deal. Let's announce it and make sure that help is on the way to the vast majority of American people.

BLITZER: Yes, because they need help, they need help desperately. Let's get through another a quick subject before I let you go, Mark. We've just received these official warnings from both the FBI, the U.S. intelligence community, that Russian hackers have targeted state and local governments in at least two instances, they successfully actually stole election data. This comes after the Director of National Intelligence last night issued a very stark warning focusing in on Iran's election interference here in the United States.

At this point, which country poses a greater threat as far as election ballots are concerned? Are we talking about Russia or Iran?

MEADOWS: Yes. So let me make sure that I clear up two things right now in terms of ballots. There's a difference between really changing ballots, which neither the Russians nor the Iranians or the Chinese have done. So, I want the American people to know that. When they came out yesterday, and I want to I want to emphasize within 27 hours actually, it was less than that. Within the last 24 hours, we -- as you know, we've actually had someone actually come up, tell the American people, inform the Gang of Eight.

Last night's threat, honestly was more from the Iranians trying to target President Donald J. Trump. There was some Russian involvement in a minimum way that we identified yesterday as well. But the real alarm bells went off with the Iranians. Now, that's not to diminish whether it's the Iranians' ability, Russians or the Chinese ability to interfere. But I can't say -- I left a briefing early this morning, the Department of Homeland Security, the President, and all of his team are on 24/7 alert to make sure that we stop it as we did here, and if we find anything else, we'll be coming to the American people and make sure that they're fully informed as quickly as possible.

[17:50:10]

BLITZER: Yes. I will say this. I've spoken to a senior U.S. intelligence official, they say the Russians, they know what they're doing. They've got a lot of experience. They want to foment as much political dissent here in the United States, create political chaos to weaken the U.S. around the world. That's their goal. That's what they're trying to do.

The Iranians, they're newcomers, they're minor league, they don't have the capability that the Russians clearly have. The Russians represent a much bigger threat to the U.S. than the Iranians do.

MEADOWS: Well -- But both of those pales in comparison to what China is trying to do right now. And so let's just be clear about it.

BLITZER: Do the Chinese under a threat when it comes to election interference?

MEADOWS: I do without a doubt. So, you go back to your intelligence official that you talked to. And if he didn't give you the same -- or she didn't give you the same answer, let's get together.

BLITZER: Well, I noticed last night that Christopher Wray, the head of the FBI, John Ratcliffe, the Director of National Intelligence, they spoke about Russia and Iran, they never mentioned China.

MEADOWS: Well, that was because this specific address, this -- and threat last night, was predominantly Iran, and to a very small degree, Russia, so China was not involved in. So, we were talking last night about a specific threat. And to really less than 10,000 people, you know, and when we look at it, every person and every vote counts, but there's no balance that are being manipulated, no tallies that are being manipulated. This was all about trying to sow discord, as you were talking about and pretend like it's an ally of the President, to try to infer that he was doing something improperly.

BLITZER: All right, let's talk, before I let you go --

MEADOWS: And, by the way, I hit one other thing is, is because of that particular issue, Secretary Mnuchin has -- is about to or has already issued additional sanctions that are going towards Iran. We're taking very decisive action immediately. And we're not going to tolerate people of any country interfering in our election. And there's decisive action that's taking place today.

BLITZER: That's really important. We don't want that whether it's Russia or China, or Iran or any other country interfering in the U.S. democracy trying to weaken the United States around the world.

You're very generous with your time. Mark Meadows, the White House Chief of Staff, thanks very much. We're all looking forward to the debate tonight.

MEADOWS: Thanks, Wolf. Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Thank you. As we await the start of tonight's, the final presidential debate, we want to take a closer look right now at the path to the 270 electoral college votes. Each candidate needs to claim victory.

Our Political Director David Chalian is joining us right now. David, the path to 270 will almost certainly involve the key battleground state of Florida. Take us inside this very close contest.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It always does, Wolf. If you saw that brand-new Florida poll, we have out. It shows a margin of error race between Biden and Trump. Let's dig inside those numbers. What's making it so close?

Well, look here. Among independent voters in our poll, Joe Biden's winning them 51 percent to 41 percent. This is a group that Donald Trump won in Florida in 2016 by four points, he is down 10, OK? Take a look at seniors, also part of his 2016 coalition. Joe Biden is winning them by points here. 52 percent to 44 percent. In 2016, Donald Trump won this group by 17 points. He's now down eight.

So that is a key difference and why this race continues to be so close. One warning sign, of course, for Joe Biden is among Hispanic voters, Latino voters. In Florida 52 percent to 45 percent, Joe Biden is ahead you see here. But look at this, Donald Trump is 10 points higher here than he was in 2016. Joe Biden is 10 points below what Hillary Clinton did in Florida, among Latinos in 2016. So that's one bit of work he has to do.

And it will not surprise you that Florida has seen the most advertising on television of any state this entire cycle. Take a look at the numbers, and you see the huge democratic advantage. The Biden campaign versus the Trump campaign and in the Democratic outside groups $186 million on the Democratic side to $117 million on the Republican side. Democrats clearly outspending Republicans in the critical battleground state of Florida, Wolf. BLITZER: Florida, Florida, Florida, as they say. Thank you very much, David Chalian. We'll get back to you.

Coming up, we're getting some new details of tonight's debate including coronavirus precautions. We'll be right back.

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