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Interview with Former CDC Director Thomas Frieden; COVID-19 Cases Rising Nationwide; Candidates Hit Campaign Trail Following Debate; Trump Seizes on Biden's Oil Comments at Florida Rally; 52 Million Early Votes Already Cast 11 Days to Election; Dr. Birx: More Virus Spread Occurring in Homes As Colder Weather Forces Social Gathering Indoors. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 23, 2020 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news on the coronavirus and the worsening second wave here in the United States.
Tonight, nearly 224,000 Americans are dead. The U.S. case count keeps climbing and climbing, and now hospitalizations are rapidly increasing, hitting the highest level since August.
It's yet another alarming indicator of the dangers ahead. But a new study shows as many as 130,000 American lives could be saved over the next several months if, if most Americans started to wear masks.
Also breaking, President Trump is in the must-win state of Florida right now. He's still in need of a campaign reset, even after he managed to give a more measured performance in his final debate with Joe Biden last night.
The day after their face-off, the former vice president, he is now escalating his condemnation of President Trump's handling of the pandemic, saying the president seems to have given up.
Eleven days before the election, so many voters already have had their say. As of this hour, more than 52 million, 52 million early ballots have already been cast.
Let's start our coverage this hour with our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, covering the president, who is down in Florida.
Jim, the president is now in this frantic dash to Election Day. He needs to make up some ground. Florida is so critical. Without Florida, it's probably unlikely he could get reelected.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Very unlikely, Wolf.
And the president is touting his debate performance today, but not all of his campaign advisers are pleased. I talked to one adviser, who said the president failed to deliver a knockout blow against Democrat Joe Biden. But, in the meantime, the president is in the fight of his political
life. He will be campaigning here in Pensacola, Florida, later on this evening.
And as we have seen time and time again, Wolf, at these Trump rallies, Trump supporters not wearing masks, not social distancing. I hardly see any masks in sight right now, as this virus is raging across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): Campaigning in the must-win state of Florida, President Trump is predicting a comeback, even as he's trailing in the polls and running out of time.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're all waiting for that great red wave.
ACOSTA: The president is patting himself on the back after his less hostile debate with Joe Biden.
TRUMP: They wanted to play by the rules. They felt very strongly about it. It's two different styles. I'm able to do different styles, if you had to.
ACOSTA: But Mr. Trump is still trying to rewrite history, insisting he's always taken responsibility for his response to the coronavirus.
TRUMP: I always take responsibility.
ACOSTA: Even though that's obviously not true.
TRUMP: No, I don't take responsibility.
ACOSTA: As COVID-19 cases are once again peaking in the U.S., the president and top administration officials gathered in the Oval Office without wearing masks, as Mr. Trump needled one reporter for using one.
TRUMP: This is Jeff Mason. He's got a mask on. It's the largest mask I think I've ever seen.
(LAUGHTER)
ACOSTA: Coronavirus Task Force doctor Anthony Fauci said the West Wing's resistance to mask-wearing is not setting the best example.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Virtually everybody who is in that room was tested that day to go into the Oval Office. But, still, the image of that is something that may give the wrong impression to people.
ACOSTA: Though Fauci acknowledged the president is spending more time listening to controversial task force member Dr. Scott Atlas, a mask skeptic.
FAUCI: I definitely don't have his ear as much as Scott Atlas right now.
ACOSTA: In his own post-debate speech, Biden called on all Americans to wear masks and to listen to the scientists.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Yes, Mr. President, I will listen to the scientists, and I will empower them.
ACOSTA: At the debate, the president was sending more mixed signals, falsely claiming the virus is going away.
TRUMP: We're rounding the turn. We're rounding the corner. It's going away.
ACOSTA: While also saying Americans may have to grow accustomed to life with COVID-19.
TRUMP: I say we're learning to live with it. We have no choice.
ACOSTA: Biden slammed Mr. Trump for that.
BIDEN: He says that we're learning to live with it. People are learning to die with it. Anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.
ACOSTA: The president also claimed he's not a racist.
TRUMP: I can't even see the audience because it's so dark, but I don't care who's in the audience. I'm the least racist person in this room.
ACOSTA: While smearing undocumented immigrants who show up for their court dates.
TRUMP: I hate to say this, but those with the lowest I.Q., they might come back.
ACOSTA: The Trump campaign believes Biden had a major gaffe when he said he wanted the U.S. to transition from fossil fuels to green energy.
TRUMP: Would you close down the oil industry?
BIDEN: By the way, I have a transition from the old industry, yes.
TRUMP: Oh, that's a big statement.
BIDEN: I will transition. It is a big statement.
TRUMP: That's a big statement.
BIDEN: Because I would stop...
KRISTEN WELKER, MODERATOR: Why would you do that?
BIDEN: Because the oil industry pollutes significantly. I'd stop giving them federal subsidies.
TRUMP: That could be one of the worst mistakes made in presidential debate history. We're going to see. We hope it is.
ACOSTA: Mr. Trump tried to turn to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for some political help, as he touted a new peace agreement between Israel and Sudan. But take a listen, as Netanyahu seemed reluctant to play along.
TRUMP: Do you think sleepy Joe could have made this deal, Bibi, sleepy Joe? I think -- do you think he would've made this deal somehow? I don't think so.
[18:05:07]
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Well, Mr. President, one thing I can tell you is, we appreciate it the help for peace from anyone in America. And we appreciate what you've done enormously.
TRUMP: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And as the president is playing catchup with Democrat Joe Biden, he is planning on holding multiple rallies every day between now and Election Day, sometimes three to five rallies a day. Wolf.
We have been accustomed to seeing one potential super-spreader event, one potential super-spreader rally with the president out on the campaign trail. Now he may have multiple potential super-spreader events, as many of these supporters here are not wearing their masks and they're not practicing social distancing -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And thousands and thousands of them are gathering to hear the president.
All right, Jim Acosta, thank you very much.
Let's get some more of the breaking news on the coronavirus crisis.
Let's go to CNN's Nick Watt. He's joining us right now.
Nick, as we're seeing so many disturbing new numbers unfolding right now, and there's also some news you're getting the vaccine front. Update our viewers.
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, some pretty good news on the vaccine.
Johnson & Johnson getting ready to restart, hoping to restart their trials here in the U.S. after an unexplained illness in a volunteer. They say no evidence that that illness was connected with the vaccine.
AstraZeneca, meanwhile, just got the green light to restart their trials here in the U.S., after a similar situation. But here's the thing. As the director of the National Institute of Health said today, unless enough of us take that vaccine, then this virus could be here for years.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WATT (voice-over): We are now in the full surge, virus spread accelerating.
ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We're in a very serious moment right now. We're seeing increases in cases. And what we're seeing is, through the Midwest, Upper Midwest and the Plains, a lot of cases occurring.
WATT: A dozen states are suffering all-time record high average daily case counts.
TRUMP: We're rounding the turn. We're rounding the corner. It's going away.
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: The truth of the matter is that we're turning the corner into a tsunami.
WATT: Nationwide, the three worst days for new cases were all back in ugly, ugly July, coming in fourth, yesterday, 71,671 new infections.
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: This time, it's in the middle of the country.
WATT: And the number of COVID patients in our hospitals has soared by a third in just three weeks or so.
AZAR: Then, we will see results from that.
WATT: Results means deaths, our average daily death toll already higher than it's been in a month. And another 160,000-plus Americans might die before the first day of February, according to influential modelers.
They say, if 95 percent of Americans wore masks, 100,000 lives could be saved through the last day of February.
AZAR: This is being driven by individual behaviors at this point.
WATT: Like going mask less, family gatherings, public gatherings, three cases now confirmed at this Los Angeles mega-church, which defies public health orders, meets inside.
PASTOR JOHN MACARTHUR, GRACE COMMUNITY CHURCH: We will obey God, rather than men.
WATT: Big Ten football kicks off tonight, very few fans. Still, "We are expecting some potential new obstacles as a result of the upcoming football season," says the mayor of East Lansing, home to Michigan State.
We are in the full surge. We know what we need to do.
REINER: Mask up, and we can turn this around.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WATT: We can turn this around, but will we turn this around?
Now, the surgeon general today said that, this week, we will probably see our highest ever daily case count for this virus.
Yes, and the data backs him up. Yesterday, we were just 5,000 or 6,000 short, and as we just showed you, the trajectory on that graph, Wolf, is going like that.
BLITZER: Yes. I just double-checked. Yesterday, 71,671 people came down diagnosed with coronavirus. Another 856 -- 856 Americans, sadly, lost their lives to coronavirus just yesterday.
Deepest condolences to their families.
Nick Watt, thank you very much for that report.
Joining us now, Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Dr. Frieden, thank you so much for joining us.
As you watch the numbers of new cases, the numbers of hospitalizations in the U.S. tick back up toward previous highs, how concerned are you about what will unfold during the coming weeks and months as we approach winter here?
[18:10:06]
DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, FORMER DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Well, Wolf, it's extremely concerning.
What we're seeing is an upsurge throughout most of the U.S., and the increases continue. Not only are the levels high, but they're increasing. And although the focus is on the number of diagnosed cases, the best estimate is, there are roughly five times as many infections each day as diagnosed cases.
What that really tells us is that we are, yes, turning the corner, but into a tsunami of an increase in cases, hospitalizations and deaths.
BLITZER: So, what do we need to do to try to stop that?
FRIEDEN: There's a lot we can do. But one thing we have to understand is, it's not one thing. Masks are important. But it's not only masks. A vaccine, if it comes, will be important, but we're still going to have a pandemic.
There's no fairy tale ending to this pandemic. But there's lots we can do to drive down spread with the three W's, wear a mask, watch your distance, wash your hands. All of them are important. And reduce risky indoor gatherings.
And, second, where there is spread, tamp it down with rapid testing, isolating people quickly after they become infectious, and identifying contacts and quarantining them. If we do that, we can keep it to a low level, and that way get more of our economy back sooner.
BLITZER: What I hear you saying, Dr. Frieden, is that we're still not doing enough testing. Is that right?
FRIEDEN: I would say we're not doing testing strategically enough.
It doesn't matter how many tests you do, if you don't take appropriate action, both to prevent spread and if there is a positive. What we're seeing is now an increase, again, in the turnaround time for tests.
What you want to have happen is, if someone feels sick, they get tested the same day, they get the results back within a day, and they're isolated, so that you're reducing the infectious burden in communities. That's not what's happening in most places of the U.S.
And as cases increase, you get into a vicious cycle, because there's less testing capacity, longer turnaround times. Public health staff are overwhelmed.
What you want to do is drive down cases with masking and distancing and shutting or restricting indoor places, so that you can get into more of a virtuous cycle, and have cases come down and down and down. The only way to do that, Wolf, is to focus on it, not deny it.
BLITZER: When you see these images of these huge rallies that the president is having, thousands in Florida right now, for example, thousands of people showing up, most of them not wearing masks, many of them elderly, and no social distancing at all, it's such a problem.
But the president himself seems to be encouraging it. Look at these pictures coming in, Dr. Frieden.
FRIEDEN: Well, at least they're outside. Out of doors is vastly safer than indoors.
But any time you have lots of people together and coming from different places, some of them having higher rates of COVID, there is a definite risk of spread of the virus. And that spread will result in further infections, further hospitalizations, and further deaths.
BLITZER: And it's so easy to simply put on a mask, and it will save so many lives. And, unfortunately, so many people don't want to do that.
We have just learned, Dr. Frieden, that the drug maker AstraZeneca will resume its vaccine trials here in the United States after it was paused because of safety concerns.
Are you confident in the FDA's decision to allow this trial to move forward?
FRIEDEN: I'm encouraged that we have seen companies like AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson really very careful, very transparent, pausing, providing information, without violating any patient confidentiality, and then resuming.
What we really need here is not just a vaccine that is safe and effective, but also one that's trusted. And that means the processes have to be followed, there has to be full transparency about the data.
This is an unprecedented attempt to develop a vaccine this fast. And some of the types of vaccines have never been used before. But I'm guardedly optimistic that we will have a safe and effective vaccine at some point in the next few months.
But, again, it's not going to take the pandemic off the table. It will be a great tool, especially if people take the vaccine, but we're still going to have the risk of cases, clusters and outbreaks. We're still going to have to adjust to a new normal, a more sustainable normal, and let's hope a better normal of recognizing that we're all in this together, and we can get through it.
BLITZER: Yes, we have got to err on the side of caution. The dangers are so great.
When asked, by the way, about his communication with the president, Dr. Fauci, a man you know well, said -- and I'm quoting him now -- he said: "I definitely don't have his ear as much as Scott Atlas right now."
Does it concern you to learn that the White House is increasingly moving away from Dr. Fauci, the nation's top infectious diseases expert?
FRIEDEN: Well, I think it's not about individuals.
But what concerns me deeply is Dr. Atlas, although he claims not to be advocating herd immunity, is exactly advocating herd immunity, is saying, let it spread among young, healthy people and protect the vulnerable.
[18:15:17]
It's a tempting idea, except it's completely wrong, because what starts in the young doesn't stay in the young. Some of the young can get very ill or die. And, ultimately, the vulnerable isn't a little sliver of our society. It's 20 percent of people in this country who are over the age of 65, and nearly half of adults have an underlying condition that puts them at higher risk of severe illness or death from COVID.
So, it's a very deadly mistake to follow.
BLITZER: And young people, even if they're totally asymptomatic, they can still spread this disease to their parents, their grandparents, and others all around.
So, this is really -- as you say, this herd immunity idea is really, really pitiful. It's really sad and so, so dangerous.
Dr. Frieden, thank you so much for joining us.
FRIEDEN: Thank you.
BLITZER: Just ahead, Joe Biden hits hard on the pandemic and the president's failures as he delivers his closing message to voters.
And if the debate wasn't a game-changer, can the president carve a path to victory with only 11 days left?
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:38]
BLITZER: We're following all the breaking news in the presidential race.
Tonight, Joe Biden is trying to amplify the message he delivered during last night's debate, arguing that President Trump has given up fighting the coronavirus pandemic.
Let's get some more from our political correspondent, M.J. Lee. She's joining us from Wilmington, Delaware, where the vice -- former vice president is based.
M.J., today, the former vice president laid out his strategy for dealing with COVID-19. Update our viewers.
M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: He did, Wolf.
And at this point in the race, every Joe Biden speech or campaign event is centered around COVID, or at least has some kind of COVID-19 angle. He has made it abundantly clear that this is going to be central to his closing message as we get closer and closer to Election Day.
Obviously, last night, at the debate, we saw that stark contrast between the president and the former vice president when it comes to the virus, the president often painting sort of a rosy picture, where the former vice president warned about a dark winter that is headed this way.
And then, in the speech today, in Wilmington, Delaware, just earlier today, he sort of pulled all of the threads together and gave one comprehensive speech laying out his own vision for how he would handle the virus, talking about mask -- mask-wearing enforcement and also how he would distribute PPE and vaccines, and also pointing out what he sees are the failures of President Trump in handling this pandemic, and even pointedly saying that he believes the president has quit on the American people.
And one interesting running theme that we saw over and over again was Biden essentially asking American voters to imagine a better future here. He is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We don't have to be held prisoner by this administration's failures. We can choose a different path. Imagine a day in the not-too-distant future when you can enjoy dinner
with your friends and your family, maybe even go out to a movie, when you can celebrate your birthday, weddings, graduations surrounded by your nearest and dearest friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: Now, the Biden campaign says that we should expect to see a pretty robust schedule in the coming days.
Tomorrow, he is going to be campaigning in Pennsylvania, including in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Keep in mind, Wolf, this is a state that President Trump narrowly won back in 2016.
But a CNN poll this week show that Biden has a 10-point lead right now over the president.
BLITZER: That's an important point as well. And we know that the former vice president will get a big source of help tomorrow down in Miami in Florida, a key battleground state, when the former President Barack Obama will be campaigning for him tomorrow down in Florida.
We will have coverage of that, of course, as well.
M.J., thank you very much, M.J. Lee reporting.
Joining us now, our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, the author of "My Vanishing Country: A Memoir."
Gloria, we saw a big contrast today between Joe Biden and President Trump, with Biden focusing his speech almost entirely on the coronavirus, and President Trump once again largely ignoring all the pandemic safety protocols that are out there recommended by the CDC.
What did you make of that closing message from these two candidates with just 11 days to go?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the closing message from Donald Trump is, do whatever you want, behave any way you want, we're rounding the corner, go live your life, pay no attention to the pandemic, even though we had, I believe, 71,000 new coronavirus cases yesterday.
So, the president's not paying any attention to it, just like he tried to tell us to all go to church this past Easter.
And the contrast could not be clearer. As M.J. was just saying, Joe Biden is saying, I'm going to require mask mandates. I'm going to expand testing. I'm going to make sure that we have a vaccine that is distributed for free and is distributed fairly. And I'm going to send resources to the schools, so they can reopen.
So he has a plan. And Donald Trump has a wish, which he believes is true, by the way.
BLITZER: Yes.
I mean, he said in the debate last night, we're rounding the turn, we're rounding the corner, it's going away.
BORGER: Right. It's in his rearview mirror, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes.
Bakari, it's simply not going away. It's getting worse right now. It's surging, the virus, here in the United States, with just 11 days until Election Day.
[18:25:06]
How much of an impact do you think this is going to have?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the coronavirus is the number one, two and three issue on the ballots for most Americans.
People just really want to get their lives back. People want to get back to normal. And then, when you dig a little deeper, when you look down below the surface, you realize that this is somewhat of a dichotomy, because there's not just the public health aspect, which Joe Biden articulates so well, because he does so with a level of empathy.
But it's also the economic aspect. I mean, you think about all these communities, these colleges, these universities, these small towns that don't have college football or are not able to put fans in the stands. Think about how devastating that is to a rural community, who's now going to have a gap in their budget because the simple fact that this president mishandled coronavirus.
The unique thing about coronavirus, Wolf, unlike many other policy considerations, is that this hits home. It not only hits home because there's somebody at your dinner table who is usually there at Thanksgiving who will not be there because they have succumbed to this deadly virus.
But it also hits home because you know people who've been laid off, because your pocket is not as big as it once was, because your small business is about to shut down.
And for the life of me, I don't understand why the president of the United States, the 45th president of the United States, doesn't have that intangible of compassion or empathy, where he can understand the plight of his fellow American. It's devastating, Wolf.
BLITZER: You see these rallies where thousands of people are gathered, a lot of them older down in Florida, no masks, no social distancing, very, very potentially dangerous.
Glory, the president really needed a major game-changing moment at the debate last night. It doesn't look like he got one. So what else can he do with 11 days to go?
BORGER: Yes, I think he can't do crazy stuff, Wolf.
Every time you turn around, he's tweeting something crazy or saying something that makes people scratch their heads and reminds them what he's been like over the over the past four years.
And what his advisers were able to do last night was to tamp him down, to keep him on kind of a leash, and to keep his anger under control. And the question is whether he will be able to do that for the next 11 days, if he wants to try and win this election.
And with Donald Trump, everything is unpredictable. Anything can set him off. You will see, on Sunday, his "60 Minutes" interview, in which he jumped down Lesley's throat -- Lesley Stahl's throat.
And it started just saying to her, why are you asking me these terrible questions?
It will remind people who he is. And he tried to pull back at that debate last night, I think with some success. But he goes to a rally, he will go to another rally, and he will be Donald Trump all over again.
I think, in a way, there's so few undecided voters left. What you're really talking about is motivating voters to get out there for your candidate. And I don't know that he motivated anybody last night. We will just see.
BLITZER: Yes, we certainly will.
All right, Gloria, Bakari, guys, thanks very much.
Just ahead, a new breakdown of the race to 270 electoral votes and the state where both candidates are pouring resources tonight.
And did Joe Biden do damage to his campaign by telling debate watchers he wants to transition the U.S. away from oil?
I will talk to a key Biden ally, Senator Chris Coons of Delaware.
That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
BLITZER: In Florida tonight, President Trump is trying to use Joe Biden's words against him, seizing on his opponent's remark about transitioning the country away from oil. The Biden campaign has been scrambling to try to clean up that key moment in last night's debate.
We're joined now by a very close ally of the former vice president, Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, the former vice president's home state. Thank so much, Senator, for joining us.
Just a little while ago, President Trump really went after Joe Biden for that comment last night about transitioning the United States away from the oil industry. President Trump said this could be one of the worst mistakes made in presidential debate history. Was that an unforced error by Joe Biden?
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, Wolf, as you know, President Trump who's back on the campaign trail and saying outrageous things at some of his big rallies he's holding today is taking this out of context that Joe Biden, based on his climate plan, is clearly committed to reducing the huge amount of federal tax subsidies that the oil industry gets and he made it clear last night, he believes that natural gas, that other fossil fuels will play a role in a transition to a cleaner economy and will keep playing a role in our economy for some time to come.
Over the 30-year transition to a net zero carbon economy that Joe Biden is going to help lead, he will also help us create millions of new jobs. As we deploy wind and solar on a larger scale, as we build a million-and-a-half new energy efficient homes, as we install tens of thousands of new electric vehicle charging stations, many Americans have already seen this benefit, have seen the transition from coal or oil and gas to solar, and wind in their regions.
[18:35:03]
And I think with federal leadership, we can make a real dent in the significant challenges of climate change and help create a high wage, high paying, high skilled jobs here in the United States as a result.
BLITZER: Yes. The Biden campaign did have to go out and clarify what exactly the president meant to say because his words were pretty specific.
On another sensitive issue, Biden claimed last night during the debate, and you heard it, that he never said the words I oppose fracking but President Trump replied that it was on tape and it actually is, Senator Coons. Let me play the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Just to clarify, would there be any place for fossil fuels including coal and fracking in a Biden administration?
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, we would work it out. We would make sure it's eliminated and no more subsidies for either one of those, either any fossil fuel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, so that was last year during a debate, our own Dana Bash was moderating. How do you explain that to people in battleground states like Pennsylvania, for example, where fracking is so important?
COONS: Joe has been very clear that what he is saying is he will reduce or ban fracking on public land, on federally owned lands, not on private lands. And the fracking that's going on in Pennsylvania is almost all on private land. He recognizes that the move towards abundant natural gas production in the United States has played a critical role in switching away from coal towards cleaner burning natural gas and has played a key role in the revival of manufacturing in the United States and made us a net energy exporter.
All of this is a part of the transition away from the dirtier carbon- based fossil fuels toward the cleaner burning fuels that Joe Biden imagines is going to be a key part.
This is already going on in the marketplace. This has nothing to do with federal mandates. That change is already happening. There has been dramatic reductions in coal employment and coal usage in the United States in the last four years while President Trump has been president.
What Joe Biden is saying is that he will put a cap on fracking on federal lands, but allow it to continue on privately held lands in those states where is it's currently allowed, because that's such a key part that transitioning to obtain and burning natural gas.
BLITZER: So the folks in Pennsylvania who make a living out of doing this, what I hear you saying is they really don't have to worry about it?
COONS: That's right.
BLITZER: Senator Chris Coons, a strong, strong supporter and good friend of the former vice president, Joe Biden, as usual, thank so much for joining us. Thanks for all the clarification. We really appreciate it.
COONS: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Just ahead, we'll take a closer look at the key states that President Trump and Joe Biden for that matter need to win to secure the necessary 270 Electoral College votes.
Plus, a new warning from the top member of the White House coronavirus task force about the spread from indoor social gatherings. This is information you need to know.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
BLITZER: With just 11 days to go before the election here in the United States, both campaigns are targeting the all-important state of Pennsylvania right now. Vice President Mike Pence wrapped up an event there just a little while ago. The Democratic presidential nominee, Joe Biden, travels to Pennsylvania tomorrow.
CNN's Phil Mattingly is back with us at the Magic Wall, tracking the path to 270 electoral votes. Phil, what can we glean about the state of the race by where the candidates are focusing their attention in these final 11 days?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, it's crunch time, and there's nothing more valuable to either campaign than the time of their candidates and of their top surrogates.
And you noted the travel. I want to actually pull that up and take a look at it because it's so important at this stage in the game. Campaign travel, obviously, Trump and Pence have gone all over the map over the course of the last several weeks, in the course of the last several days.
But what's a constant you see across the board. Vice President Joe Biden, Pennsylvania, Bernie Sanders, Pennsylvania, both on Saturday, President Obama, Pennsylvania and Philadelphia earlier in the week, President Trump, earlier in the week, Pennsylvania, Mike Pence, as you noted, Pennsylvania.
And I want to explain to you why, and it goes a little bit to the lessons learned or what the Trump campaign hopes is a repeat of 2016. We pull up Pennsylvania, and what happened in 2016. Donald Trump, a narrow win that kind of blew everybody's mind at the time, by about 40,000 points. Now, you consider where everybody is going.
Joe Biden going to Bucks County, going to Luzerne County. These are two counties that are rich with votes. Luzerne County flip to President Trump back in 2016. Bucks County, a narrow victory for Hillary Clinton. Where is Bernie Sanders going? Allegheny County. Where was Mike Pence? Allegheny County, they recognize that Allegheny County is the place where Democrats can actually hold margins down in Western Pennsylvania because President Trump, Wolf, back in 2016, just blew western Pennsylvania out of the water.
So there's a recognition right now, one that Pennsylvania is key, with two, both sides trying to do what either Hillary Clinton couldn't do back in 2016 in the case of the Biden campaign or replicate what they did do back in 2016, if you're the Trump campaign, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, and I'm looking at the numbers over there from four years ago, President Trump won Pennsylvania by only about 44,000 votes. It was very close.
MATTINGLY: Yes. Look, it was razor thin. And it was also a harbinger of what was to come throughout the course in the Midwest. And I think that's also a key point about Pennsylvania. We talk about Florida.
[18:45:01]
We talk about Arizona. We talk about all sorts of toss up states, but the Midwest was the core of President Trump's victory in 2016, and if he's going to win again in 2020, he will need it again.
Take a look at this map, obviously, Joe Biden right now with a lead in our race tracker because of how he's doing in polling across the country. Say you give every single toss up state to President Trump, every single state goes to president -- toss up state goes to President Trump, he's still behind Joe Biden. The importance of Pennsylvania, if Pennsylvania stays blue, if Joe
Biden can flip Pennsylvania, President Trump could go and win Arizona and still he would be beneath the 270. The reality right now is President Trump needs the Midwest. Pennsylvania is the best-case scenario for the Trump campaign. Biden is leading there. The Trump campaign trying to come back and repeat what they did in 2016, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, two of the most important states, Pennsylvania and Florida right now.
Phil Mattingly, thank you very much.
Just ahead, a top member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force is warning about danger from indoor social gathering as new cases are surging all across the United States.
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[18:50:40]
BLITZER: As officials respond to the worsening second wave of the coronavirus, with new restrictions limiting gatherings in public places, one of President Trump's top health advisers is warning these measures won't be enough to combat the rise in cases.
Let's discuss with CNN medical analyst, Dr. Leana Wen. She's an emergency room physician, a former Baltimore city health commissioner.
Dr. Wen, the coronavirus response coordinator, Dr. Deborah Birx, had this to stay about combating this dangerous new surge we are now seeing.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: It won't be as simple as closing public spaces, because public spaces, you can see, were very safe over the summer and probably remain safe. This is really something that has happened in the last three to four weeks. And what has happened in the last three to four weeks, it's gotten cooler and people have moved social gatherings indoors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: It sounds, Dr. Wen, like health measures targeting, let's say, bars or restaurants won't have an impact if people are getting together in their own homes, indoors. Is that right? How serious of an issue is this right now?
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, it's very serious issue, Wolf, because we are seeing explosive spread throughout the country. And unlike before, where we had just a few places that were virus hot spots, we now have virus hot spots all across the U.S. And we also note that what's driving this latest surge are these informal gatherings. The good news here is that we actually know what it takes, we have
done a much better job in formal settings, on public transportation, in restaurants, in a lot of other grocery stores, as an example, we have done a lot better in these settings. But we now need to focus on these informal settings.
I think many people have a form of magical thinking. We think that, well, our loved ones are people that we trust. They can't possibly have coronavirus.
But there's no face of someone who has COVID-19. We need to use just as much caution around our loved ones. And so that means being outdoors to see them as much as possible.
If there's bad weather, rescheduling until it's a better day to see them outdoors. And if we're indoors, we need to limit that time and wear masks, even with people we know and love.
BLITZER: So, what options do people have to socialize when the weather doesn't cooperate, when it's getting colder outside? Are we not supposed to see people in person throughout these coming months of winter here in the United States?
WEN: Well, we are in for a very difficult winter, heading into -- I think it is important to keep in mind, we have to get through this winter. That by next winter, things could be very different.
We'll most likely have a vaccine. We'll have other therapeutics. But we have to get through the next several months.
So, it is really important to try to be outdoors as much as possible. That's the safest way to socialize. At least six feet apart, outdoors, we can bundle up, use heaters, and, again, try to do our best to be outdoors.
If we have to be indoors, there are few options. You can form a pandemic pod with family or others that you really trust, and everyone limits their risks, recognizing that if one person in that pod has risks, that's a risk that's going to be exposed to everyone else.
You can also, if people really want to get together over the holidays, everybody could quarantine for 14 days, and then get tested, and then see one another indoors. But that's really difficult and impractical for a lot of people.
So I would encourage everyone try to be outdoors as much as possible and recognize that it's not for forever but it is going to be for the next several months.
BLITZER: Yes, this Thanksgiving might be so difficult for so many. So, sad for so many people out there, but you want to be safe, you want to make sure you don't get coronavirus, especially if you're a little older, especially if you have underlying health conditions.
You've got to be safe. Otherwise, you're going to be sorry.
Dr. Leana Wen, as usual, always good advice. Thanks so much for joining us.
WEN: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll have more news just ahead.
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[18:59:08]
BLITZER: Finally, in our nightly tribute to coronavirus victims, we honor a very special husband and wife.
Ray and Yolanda Gomez of Texas, married for more than 50 years, they died just a few weeks apart. Ray was 75. He loved Western movies. Yolanda was 73. She was known for cooking traditional Mexican food.
Together, they worked as tailors, owning their own shop. They raised four children, who gave them seven grandchildren, and seven great grandchildren.
Their daughter, Mary Lou, says they always put others first but still found seem to have fun going to casinos and dancing.
May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.
Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Please join me for a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, you can always follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WolfBlitzer. Tweet the show @CNNSitRoom.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
