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The Situation Room

Interview With Former U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton; Trump Set To Reduce Troop Presence In Iraq And Afghanistan; Moderna Says Vaccine 94.5 Percent Effective; Biden Warns Of Dangers In Transition Delay; U.S. Tops 247,000 COVID Deaths And 11 Million Cases; Georgia Secretary Of State Pushes Back Against President Trump's Baseless Vote Fraud Claims. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 16, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:31]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. We're following breaking news.

Tonight, president-elect Biden is warning that more people may die -- his words -- if President Trump keeps blocking the transition of power, as the coronavirus pandemic explodes.

The president-elect calling the president's behavior embarrassing. He's vowing to press ahead with planning for his administration, even if the stonewalling continues until Inauguration Day, this as President Trump still refuses to concede, falsely claiming he won the election and pushing baseless conspiracy theories about the vote.

The consequences of his denial are enormous, as the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 now tops 247,000, and the total number of cases soars above 11 million. More than one million new infections were reported in just the past week, one million.

Let's go to our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. He's covering the Biden transition for us.

Jeff, a very stark warning from the president-elect about the dangers of delaying the transition.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it was a stark and a stern warning, saying that there could be a dark winter ahead.

Now, we also heard Mr. Biden tonight talking about the need for a national mask mandate, as well as congressional approval for an economic stimulus package. Now, all of this comes as he's calling on the Trump administration to cooperate with his team, as he says that will save lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: More people may die if we don't coordinate.

ZELENY (voice-over): President-elect Joe Biden is raising his voice tonight, saying allowing his team access to the Trump administration's coronavirus planning is not about politics, but a matter of life and death.

BIDEN: If we have to wait until January 20 to start that planning. It puts us behind over a month, month-and-a-half. And so it's important that it be done, that there be coordination now.

ZELENY: Along with rapidly rising cases of coronavirus, the nation's economic headwinds are among the monumental challenges he and vice president-elect Kamala Harris will inherit in just 65 days. Biden and Harris are trying to show they're moving ahead on both fronts, receiving a briefing in Wilmington from top American labor leaders and CEOs of General Motors, Microsoft and other companies.

Yet their transition to power is still being complicated by the Trump administration's refusal to acknowledge the outcome of the election.

BIDEN: I find this more embarrassing for the country than debilitating for my ability to get started.

ZELENY: Biden hinted at how he plans to work with cooperative Republican governors on the front lines of the fight with coronavirus, but said he remained puzzled at those who voiced concern about the wisdom of wearing masks or working with the new Biden administration.

BIDEN: There's nothing macho about not wearing a mask. Do you guys understand this? Does anybody understand why a governor would turn this into a political statement? It's about patriotism. It's about being patriotic. It's about saving life, for real.

ZELENY: As some Senate Republicans have called for Biden to receive intelligence briefings, he noted that Harris already is.

BIDEN: The good news here is, my colleague is still on the Intelligence Committee. So she gets intelligence briefings. I don't anymore. I am hopeful that the president will be mildly more enlightened before we get to January 20.

ZELENY: Tonight, Biden said he and family members were discussing how to plan for Thanksgiving as the pandemic intensifies. He offered guidance to all Americans.

BIDEN: There should be no group more than 10 people in one room at one time -- I mean, inside the homes.

Look, I just want to make sure that we're able to be together next Thanksgiving, next Christmas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: So, the president-elect making clear that he is going to use his bully pulpit to talk about masks and coronavirus. And, Wolf, he also said something to those Republicans that he has not

yet spoken to, many of whom he's worked with in the Senate. He said, "I understand your reluctance" because of how the president operates. He said he will talk to them after January 20 -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jeff, stick around. I want to continue this conversation in a moment.

But I want to go to the White House right now and get some more on President Trump's unrelenting refusal to accept the reality of his defeat.

[18:05:01]

Our White House correspondent, Jeremy Diamond, is on the scene for us.

Jeremy, the president says he is not conceding anything.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.

And what we saw from the president today was much of the same in terms of continuing to spread these baseless conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. And, Wolf, while the president is not conceding, it's not expected to stop Joe Biden from taking office come January 20.

But it is slowing down the transition process, and it's leading to a growing sense of alarm about the consequences of that delay.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (voice-over): Nine days after losing the election, President Trump is burrowing deeper into a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and lies, as he fights to overturn the will of voters and refuses to allow the presidential transition to begin.

After briefly and perhaps inadvertently acknowledging reality with these two words, the president quickly retreated to his baseless allegation that the election was rigged, tweeting: "I concede nothing."

A social media barrage of grievances and falsehoods quickly followed. Trump's allies say there is no overarching strategy behind his refusal to concede. And people close to the president privately admit lawsuits won't stop president-elect Biden from being inaugurated in 65 days.

But, even as Trump refuses to acknowledge defeat, he's rushing to complete a drawdown of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan before he leaves office, two U.S. officials telling CNN the president is expected to issue a formal order as soon as this week, bringing the total number of U.S. troops in each country to 2,500 by January 15, but the transition still stalled.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: That transition process that we go through, that time period of measured in several weeks to months, is really important in a smooth handing over of the information. DIAMOND: Health experts are beginning to sound the alarm, warning that

delays could hurt the coronavirus response, including vaccine distribution.

FAUCI: The virus is not going to stop and call a time-out while things change. The virus is just going to keep going. The process is just going to keep going. So, hopefully, we will see that soon. And transitions are important.

DIAMOND: While the president is happy to take credit for a coronavirus vaccine developed in partnership with the federal government, he's ignoring the dangerous coronavirus surge gripping the U.S. right now.

And his preferred coronavirus adviser Dr. Scott Atlas, a radiologist with no public health expertise, is urging people to rise up against new coronavirus restrictions imposed by Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who was the target of a right-wing kidnapping plot that was foiled last month.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Well, we know that the White House likes to single us out here in Michigan, me out in particular. I'm not going to be bullied into not following reputable scientists and medical professionals.

DIAMOND: Atlas later said he was not advocating violence.

Also in limbo, national security briefings for the president-elect, the White House still refusing to provide Biden with top-level intelligence briefings, but National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien now admitting Biden is likely to be inaugurated.

ROBERT O'BRIEN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: If the Biden/Harris ticket is determined to be the winner -- and it's -- obviously, things look that way now -- we will have a very professional transition from the National Security Council. There's no question about it.

DIAMOND: As for former President Obama, his message to Trump, it's time.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My advice to President Trump is, if you want at this late stage in the game to be remembered as somebody who put country first, it's time for you to do the same thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND: And, Wolf, we learned today that President Trump is expected tissue in order as early as this week to withdraw many troops from Afghanistan, bringing that number down to 2,500 troops.

And sources familiar with the matter are also telling our colleague Jake Tapper that the president was warned against doing that very same thing by the former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper.

Esper, in a memo to the White House, warned the White House earlier this month that it was the consensus of the U.S. military chain of command that no more troops should be withdrawn from Afghanistan until conditions on the ground, specific conditions on the ground, had been met, and that, as of that memo, those conditions had not yet been met.

Those sources also said that they believe that Esper's warning to the president and to the White House about that troop drawdown was one of the main reasons why he was fired last week -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jeremy, thank you, Jeremy Diamond over at the White House.

Joining us now, our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. He's back with us, along with CNN senior commentator the former Ohio Republican Governor John Kasich, and CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, the author of the new book "My Vanishing Country."

Governor Kasich, let's discuss what we just have been reporting.

The president-elect of the United States says the unprecedented refusal from the outgoing Trump administration to work together is more embarrassing -- his words -- for the country than debilitating for, he says So, the"my ability to get started."

What do you think?

[18:10:00]

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I wouldn't disagree with Joe Biden. I think it's debilitating maybe and also embarrassing.

Wolf, I was thinking back and talked to a friend of mine early this morning. And I thought -- I said to him, what would this be like today -- and this is a man, by the way, involved in fighting this pandemic -- what would it have been like had Donald Trump from the very beginning told the American people what was going on, and these are the things we need to do, and it's going to be a long road, but we're going to do it together?

And now we just have an election that occurred. We all know that Joe Biden has won this election. And he doesn't want to cooperate. And so I think about the families. They're going to pay a high price for this and have already paid a high price for this kind of irresponsibility.

And, Wolf, it's something I just can't imagine. I mean, I have known every president since Richard Nixon, and I can't imagine any of them, Gerald Ford, or Bill Clinton, or Barack Obama, or any of these folks, saying -- or George Bush, George W. Bush, any of the Bushes -- that we're not going to work with you, you got elected, and we're not going to work with you on something that involves a disastrous pandemic, a health crisis?

It takes your breath away, doesn't it, Wolf? It really does.

And, please, please, Donald Trump, please, let's stop this. Fight as much as you want. Do whatever you want. But, please, start helping this man to put this program together to begin to address where we go from here in terms of this pandemic, and including the distribution of a vaccine that appears to be right around the corner.

BLITZER: Yes, these are life-and-death issues on the health-related pandemic issue and on national security issues as well.

Bakari, the president-elect publicly told Republicans today he understands the reluctance to come forward, but said he wants to work with them. And it would be a shame, he said, if they have to wait until January 20 to start doing that.

He's striking a different tone from President Trump's insistence on loyalty. So, is he playing the long game? What's going on, from your perspective?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think this is who Joe Biden has always been.

I mean, Joe Biden has always been someone who believed in the process. He believes in the grandeur of the United States Senate, where he came from. He believes that this body should be working together and moving forward, not a body of gridlock, where you have this overarching shadow of Donald Trump paralyzing these individuals from moving forward.

The fact is -- and I echo my friend Governor Kasich here -- I mean, it takes your breath away. For me, what takes my breath away is the cowardice that many of these Republicans are showing during this moment, the pettiness.

I mean, Donald Trump is nothing more than just being petty. He can do two things at one time. If he wants to exhaust his legal remedies, by all means. He can do those things, and, at the same time, begin a peaceful transition of power.

He can do both of those things at the same time to at least allow vice -- or president-elect Joe Biden to be able to come in and get the resources necessary, so that he can start on day one, or he can actually start now, tackling a virus that this president refuses to.

I mean, the pettiness in the cowardness -- or the cowardice that we're seeing during this time frame right here is just mind-blowing. And the Republican Party simply doesn't have the backbone that it used to.

BLITZER: Jeff, you just reported the president-elect warning that people may die if the Trump administration doesn't allow them to coordinate their coronavirus response in these coming weeks leading up to January 20, the inauguration.

Biden is in the very difficult position of having to convey steady leadership, while also being honest about the severity of the public health crisis. It's a life-and-death issue right now.

So, take us behind the scenes a little bit, Jeff. What's the approach that's under way?

ZELENY: Wolf, the approach is twofold. First of all, it is trying to essentially wrestle the public relations

mantle of this. And we have seen really for the better part of the last year the president of the United States not speaking, not offering instruction to the American people. That is something that Joe Biden wants to do.

He is -- every time we see him publicly, he's holding a mask. Every time we see him publicly, he's talking about the need to follow these instructions.

At the same time, behind the scenes, he's trying to get a hold and a handle on exactly what has been going on in the government here. Planning on the vaccine, that's what the entire focus is on, the distribution of that vaccine.

But, Wolf, those words were different from anything we have heard him say before, that lives could be lost. He didn't say that lightly, of course. But, in 65 days, he inherits this mess. That's why he's trying to get help right now.

BLITZER: Yes, at stake, a lot of lives, thousands and thousands of lives.

All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

Just ahead. I will get reaction from former Trump National Security Adviser Ambassador John Bolton to the breaking news about fired Defense Secretary Esper's warning about a troop drawdown in Afghanistan.

[18:15:08]

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're back with breaking news on a warning delivered by the former Defense Secretary Mark Esper before he was fired by President Trump, pushing back at the president's desire to withdraw more troops from Afghanistan.

Joining us now, the former Trump National Security Adviser Ambassador John Bolton. He is the author of the new book "The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir."

Ambassador, thanks so much for joining us.

This memo from former Defense Secretary Esper said the chain of command was united in the view that conditions had not been met for a troop drawdown in Afghanistan.

[18:20:02]

But now the defense secretary's been fired. Military commanders expect the president to order troop withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan before he leaves office, putting that order forward as early as this week.

What do you think? Does this create some sort of national security risk?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, it's a terrible mistake by the president.

And Mark Esper's memo is a reflection of what the Department of Defense has felt about Afghanistan for a year, a year-and-a-half, at least.

And it was one of the reasons why they were concerned about the negotiations with the Taliban that the State Department was conducting, and that the president essentially approved the outcome of in August and September of last year is what brought me to the point of resignation.

And I said at the time that you can have all the conditions-based outline that you want for the withdrawal. Donald Trump is not going to care about that when push comes to shove.

And I'm sad to say that prediction is coming true here. I think Esper's memo is exactly right in terms of the facts on the ground in Afghanistan, and in terms of what the president said his policy was.

But, as with so many Trump decisions, he's now decided he wants out. And I think he's moving toward that.

BLITZER: Yes, the Esper memo said that the commanding general of the U.S. military's Central Command opposes this kind of withdrawal. The NATO missions in Afghanistan commander, General Miller, opposes it, and General Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, oppose it as well.

At the same time all this is unfolding -- and this is very serious, Ambassador -- the president-elect today said President Trump's refusal to concede the election is more embarrassing for the country than debilitating, Bidens word's, for his ability to get prepared.

Do you agree with him on that, because Biden still isn't getting the daily intelligence briefings that he needs to step in and, when he takes office on January 20, be ready?

BOLTON: Yes, I think it's increasingly -- it's certainly embarrassing. There's no doubt about that. And it's increasingly debilitating.

Nobody can say it has to be by date X. But it's also, without question, the less time you have to do an adequate transition, the less well-designed the transition will be.

And I think the other comment that Biden made that you highlighted a moment ago, that he wanted to work with Republicans on the Hill, but he understood the pressure they were under, highlights a real vulnerability for Republicans.

I know there are a lot of high-sounding ideals here about cooperation. Let me just be blunt. I think Republicans are on treacherous political ground if they don't come forward sooner, rather than later, and say, Donald Trump's conduct is unacceptable.

Now, they can say it in different ways. It doesn't have to be that blunt. But it's time to step up and say, the prudent thing for the country here is to facilitate a transition that's adequate for the purposes at hand, which is not happening now.

BLITZER: You, of course, now are facing the president's direct wrath for speaking out in recent days.

In a tweet he just posted today, he called you -- quote -- "one of the dumbest people" he's ever worked with.

Are other Republicans, you think, ever going to break out of the fear that a tweet could be coming their way if they step out of line with him?

BOLTON: Yes, I think it's coming. I wish it would come a little bit sooner.

I think they face the same dilemma that I do in a way. I don't respond to these juvenile, unpresidential tweets. I'm not going to get down at that level. And I just think they ought to harden their heart here a little bit and say, we can take a Donald Trump tweet or two.

It's ultimately not good for the Republican Party. I understand people are worried about the president's base. Talk to the president's base and tell them the truth. I think they can accept it.

BLITZER: Ambassador Bolton, thanks so much for joining us.

BOLTON: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: Just ahead, we will get new reaction to the promising data on Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine. Will the progress be impacted by the president's transition stonewalling?

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:53]

BLITZER: Tonight, the United States just surpassed 247,000 deaths from COVID-19, with more than 11 million cases reported in this country, the pandemic spreading with dangerous speed right now, shattering records every day.

But there is another glimmer of hope right now with more very positive news on the vaccine front, as CNN's Nick Watt reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. TAL ZAKS, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, MODERNA: One of the greatest moment of my life and my career. NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Because Moderna just reported early results showing its vaccine is 94.5 percent effective.

ZAKS: I think, by the end of the year, hopefully, we could start to vaccinate people.

WATT: No safety red flags so far. And, unlike Pfizer's offering, this doesn't need tricky deep subzero storage.

FAUCI: This is a really strong step forward to where we want to be. We project that, by the end of December, that there will be doses of vaccines available for individuals in the higher-risk category from both companies, we hope.

WATT: And we need a vaccine badly, because the death toll is rising, because inmates are now moving the dead into makeshift morgues in El Paso, Texas.

[18:30:06]

Because more than 1 million new infections were logged in the United States in just the past week, because more children have now been infected in all, according to two medical associations, and because for black and Latin X Americans, rates of hospitalizations are four times the white population, according to the CDC.

MICHAEL MINA, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: If bombs were getting dropped on United States and killing a thousand people every single day, we would be actively engage in defending ourselves and not just sitting around until the next product comes on the market.

WATT: But in South Dakota, both COVID and COVID denial are rampant, even among those dying of this disease.

JODI DOERING, REGISTERED E.R. NURSE: And their last dying words are, this can't be happening, it not real. And when they should be spending time face timing their families, they're filled with anger and hatred.

WATT: The entire country is a hot zone. Two former FDA commissioners just wrote in The Wall Street Journal, it's now up to governors to slow the spread. Kind of always has been, but with a lame duck Trump gumming up a transition, it's now more than ever. So, Michigan just closed movie theaters, indoor bars and restaurants, also in-person classes in high schools and colleges, and in Chicago, a new advisory, stay home the next 30 days.

DR. ALLISON ARWADY, COMMISSIONER, CHICAGO DEPT. OF PUBLIC HEALTH: We've seen just in the last month our cases go up five times, our hospitalizations go up three times, our deaths go up three times and at least here in Chicago, we have recommended cancelling a traditional thanksgiving.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): But that vaccine news is very, very good. There's work still to be done. Pfizer and Moderna both need to get authorization for those vaccines, they need to be distributed and also supply is going to be pretty limited to begin with, so somebody needs to decide who is going to get those doses first. Next Monday, the CDC advisory committee is going to meet and make that call. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right Nick thanks very much, Nick Watt in Los Angeles.

Joining us now, Dr. Luciana Borio, a Member of the Board advising the Biden/Harris transition team on COVID-19. Dr. Borio, thank you so much for joining us, thanks for everything you're doing.

As you know, the president-elect is now warning in his words more people may die if the Trump administration continues to obstruct the transition. Why is this delay so potentially dangerous?

DR. LUCIANA BORIO, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: Wolf, thank you. You know, it's dangerous because it's important for the team to have access to the latest plans without delay. You know, we today, I think we have tremendous reason to -- the Moderna vaccine. Plus, we have the Pfizer vaccine. This is wonderful news.

And, you know, we can talk about how incredible this is but the hard work is not behind us. We're still going to have to figure out how we're going to manufacture these doses at even larger scale, the demand is expected to be robust, there's a tremendous unmet need. These are going to be complicates delivery -- complicate to deliver these vaccines to the American people. So the hard work just ahead of us.

Without access in the latest plan, you know, it really going to hinder the ability for us to get ready on day one, as we need to be.

BLITZER: Yes. This is so, so critically important as you correctly pointed out Dr. Borio. These are life and death issues right now. They got to start this transition. They got to start cooperating immediately with the incoming team.

When it comes to a potential vaccine, the president-elect said, the sooner we have access to the administration's distribution plan, the sooner this transition would smoothly move forward, his words. As a member of the transition advisory board, what information do you need access to right now that isn't already publicly available?

BORIO: Well, Wolf, you know, it's very important to know exactly what are the timelines for manufacturing the vaccine. The president-elect, the vice president-elect are committed to making sure that this vaccine is distributed in a way that is equitable, that it's efficient, it's effective, it's safe. So we need to understand, you know, in all of the challenges ahead of us.

Again, this is not going to be easy. This is a complex task. We are confident that the civil servants across the government are working very hard to implement the plans. But they will need assistance from the new administration on day one when they take over. So it's critical that we have this information.

BLITZER: Totally critical, I totally agree.

The president-elect also warned today that things are going to get worse before they get better as far as the coronavirus pandemic here in the United States is concerned.

[18:35:06]

What's going to be different, Dr. Borio, on day one of the Biden administration from what we're seeing now?

BORIO: Well, he has made it really clear that there will be robust, effective, science-based, public health-oriented response that takes this threat very seriously. The first order is going to be to work with the American people, the state and local leaders to be able to implement a plan that is robust and comprehensive. I think that we all want to get this behind us.

And it's going to be very difficult until we can actually shut this outbreak down and we know we all want our businesses to reopen, our schools to reopen. The country is now facing another (INAUDIBLE) day, several governors and leaders are beginning to institute more restrictions and I think the American people are tired of that. We really have to be focused on how we're going to get this virus under control.

And again, so you have an administration that is going to spare no effort to make that happen.

BLITZER: Dr. Luciana Borio, thank you so much for everything you're doing, once again, thanks so much for joining us. Good luck.

BORIO: Thank you.

BLITZER: Just ahead, I'll speak with Georgia's secretary of state as he pushes back against President Trump's baseless claims of election fraud amidst of the statewide recount.

Plus, former President Obama is speaking about the president refusal to concede and the damage caused by delaying the transition.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: As Georgia undertakes a hand recount of some 5 million votes, its secretary of state is pushing back against President Trump's baseless claims of voter fraud following his narrow loss in the state to President-elect Biden. Let's discuss with the secretary of state of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us.

There are several specific issues I want to get to. You described to The Washington Post a conversation you had with the Republican Senator Lindsey Graham on Friday. You came away with the impression that he essentially wanted you to look for ways to toss out mail-in ballots. What exactly did he say to you? BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, he asked if the ballots could be matched back to the voters. And that I got the sense it implied that then you could throw those out, and if you look at the counties with the highest frequent error of signatures. So that's the impression that I got.

But, you know, we've got that signature match in place, we have signature match when you request the ballot and we have signature match when it comes in. And then with our new online absentee ballot portal, that has photo I.D. And so we feel really confident that the election officials have done their job. And that's what they're in charge to do is do their job and make sure the signature match.

BLITZER: I just want to be clear on this, Mr. Secretary. You say Senator Graham wanted you to find ways to get rid of legally cast ballots, because CNN asked him about these allegations. He denied them. He says that's ridiculous. His words, that's ridiculous.

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, it's just an implication that, look hard and see how many ballots you could throw out. And I think that they're looking at that as part of a court case. One actually was subsequently filed, wasn't it?

BLITZER: The president, as you well know, has attacked you personally. He's calling the Georgia recount, and you're in charge of that, he says it's a scam, a waste of time. You're the man in charge of that recount. Are those words, you would use to describe it, how is it going, the recount?

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, what we decided do is a 100 percent risk limit audit. And we decided also to as part of that to do 100 percent manual re-tally. So we are, in effect, hand recounting all of ballots. And so some county you're coming with zero changes and yet today in Floyd County, we found about nearly 3,000 ballots but 800-plus for President Donald Trump. And that's why you do audit to make sure that every vote is accurately count. That was a county election error, it wasn't the machine error.

But still, that's why you do an audit. It's just like why accountants come in and do audit at financials at the end of day. We want to make sure this vote is very accurate. We understand the national importance of this. And we're in the process of doing it. The counters will be done by the 18th, and we will certify this by the 20th.

BLITZER: Those uncounted ballots of Floyd County, what, about 2,600 we're told, at about 800 as you point out were for President Trump. Was that an isolated incident? Are you sure that's not going on anywhere else?

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, that's why you do county by county and that's why you do an audit. And that's where you want to be very thorough and make sure that we capture every single ballot, paper ballot that was cast. The paper ballot is the official ballot. And that's why we did this audit. And the error was found and it was added to the totals and that's a good thing.

BLITZER: Are you sure that -- well, let me just rephrase the question. How did that happen?

RAFFENSPERGER: The counties just didn't upload one of the files. And it was just an error on their part. It was scanned properly, it was tabulated properly but then that total was not added up to the county totals. So we've talked to the county election director already. In fact, one of our, you know, senior members of our team has asked for his resignation because it's a big error.

[18:45:01]

That's something that is really rudimentary. It's something that shouldn't happen but it did. And -- but we're moving on, and we'll be doing this for 159 counties. Many of the countries are done.

But that's why you do an audit. You want to make sure you catch any of these kind of errors and you make sure that you can really verify the count that you have so everyone has confidence in the results.

BLITZER: And the Biden lead in Georgia is about 14,000. So that one error is not going to affect the final outcome. We'll see what happens --

RAFFENSBERGER: No.

BLITZER: -- when the total recount happens.

Is that right?

RAFFENSBERGER: Exactly. You know, when the counties are done, we'll just continue on that process. But it doesn't get the president where he needs to be.

BLITZER: You also told "The Washington Post," Mr. Secretary, that you and your wife have actually faced death threats over the election results. This as you're quarantining right now after your wife tested positive for coronavirus.

So how are you both doing? I assume you're still negative, is that right?

RAFFENSBERGER: I'm still negative. Yeah, some threats have come in primarily through my wife's cell phone number. That's a little unsettling for her obviously. The first ones came in, you know, more subtle and then they got more graphic, and then they've come in with vulgarity also.

And so, you always think I'm on this side of the aisle obviously and you always think your side wears the white hats. But people are really upset about this. And at the end of the day, I understand how contentious it is. We're going to follow the process, we follow the law. The results will be what they are.

I'm going to probably be disappointed because I was rooting for the Republicans to win, obviously. But I have a process, I have a law that I follow. Integrity in this office matters.

BLITZER: You're absolutely right. We're grateful to you and you are a Republican. And we'll watch it very, very closely.

Good luck to you. Good luck to your wife. Thanks for everything you're doing.

RAFFENSPERGER: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead, we're going to get more on former President Obama's criticism of President Trump's refusal to acknowledge his election loss and take part in a peaceful transfer of power.

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[18:51:41]

BLITZER: He stayed mostly silent the last four years but we're hearing more now from former President Barack Obama and he's making some of his most personal comments yet about his successor, President Donald Trump.

CNN's Brian Todd is working the story for us.

Brian, President Obama has been speaking out in a series of interviews.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's done several interviews, Wolf, and he's been remarkably candid not only about his own frustrations and failures but also Donald Trump's behavior since the election.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): Barack Obama says he's troubled that some top Republicans are in his words humoring President Trump in supporting Trump's false claims of election fraud.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is an embarrassment to our country.

TODD: And his failure to concede to Joe Biden.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT: When your time is up, then it is your job to put the country first and think beyond your own ego and your own interests and your own disappointments. My advice to President Trump is if you want at this late stage in the game to be remembered as somebody who put country first, it's time for you to do the same thing.

TODD: The former president has done interviews with CBS's "60 Minutes," "CBS Sunday Morning," NPR and "The Atlantic" magazine, all timed to the release of his new book "A Promised Land." He told "60 Minutes" President Trump's failure to admit his loss is delegitimizing the Biden administration and American democracy.

OBAMA: That's a dangerous path. We would never accept that out of our own kids behaving that way if they lost. I mean, if my daughters in any kind of competition pouted and then accused the other side of cheating when they lost when there was no evidence of it, we'd scold them.

TODD: Obama told NPR and CBS what he took from the fact that more than 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump in this election.

OBAMA: What it says is that we are still deeply divided. The power of that alternative world view that's presented in the media that those voters consume, it carries a lot of weight.

GAYLE KING, CBS NEWS HOST: Are you worried about that?

OBAMA: Yes. It's very hard for our democracy to function if we are operating on just completely different sets of facts.

TODD: Obama went after Trump more personally in his interview with "The Atlantic," saying, quote: If you are someone who is annoyed by wokeness and political correctness and wants men to be men again and is tired of everyone complaining about the patriarchy, I thought that the model wouldn't be Richie Rich, the complaining, lying doesn't take responsibility for anything type of figure.

Historian Tim Naftali believes this personal beef might trace back to Trump's false claims that Obama wasn't born in the U.S.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: He was trying to delegitimate Barack Obama's administration and by extension the U.S. government. The birther movement was corrosive. It was unfair. And frankly, it was racist.

TODD: Obama was surprisingly candid with "60 Minutes" about his wife Michelle's opposition to him running for president in 2008.

SCOTT PELLEY, CBS'S "60 MINUTES": You quote her as saying: The answer is no.

[18:55:00]

I do not want you running for president. God, Barack, when is it going to be enough?

Did I get the tone right?

OBAMA: It was a little sharper than that, but it was pretty good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Now, Michelle Obama herself has just come out and criticized Trump's refusal to make way for Joe Biden and transfer power there, saying on her Instagram account it was not easy for her to make way for the Trumps in 2017.

Quote: Donald Trump had spread racist lies about my husband that put my family in danger. That wasn't something I was ready to forgive -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us, thank you.

We're going to have more news right after this.

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BLITZER: I'm Wolf Blitzer. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WolfBlitzer. Tweet the show @CNNSitRoom.

Thanks very much for watching.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.