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The Situation Room

Kelly Loeffler and Raphael Warnock Battle for Key Georgia Senate Seat; Rudy Giuliani Has Tested Positive for Coronavirus; AG Bill Barr Considers Leaving Post Before Trump Leaves Office; Joe Biden to Nominate Xavier Becerra for HHS Secretary; Interview with Representative Denver Riggleman (R-VA) about Acknowledging Biden Win; Inside Families Torn Apart by Heroin Addiction. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired December 06, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dance on that tightrope tonight whether or not she was able to hang on, we might not know the answer to until January 5th. But I think that's going to be kind of the lasting impression that many people have about this debate here tonight, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Yes, that's a good point.

And, Chris, I want to get your take on what we just saw in this debate. First of all, are you ready to tell us who you think did a better job who won?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: OK. I think Raphael Warnock was better as a debater, Wolf, in that I think he -- largely, though, on the Supreme Court -- making the Supreme Court larger, he also clearly dodged. But he at least tried to answer the questions that my friend Greg Bluestein and others were asking of him.

Kelly Loeffler didn't. Every answer was one of three things. Radical liberal Raphael Warnock as Ryan pointed out, socialism, or I have lived the American dream. Now that can work, particularly if your strategy with Kelly Loeffler is to remind the base of the Republican Party what they are afraid of as it connects to Warnock. So I don't want to say she lost.

In terms of a pure debate, Raphael Warnock I thought was better. But they had different missions. He wanted to present himself as, look, I'm not a scary national liberal. I'm a guy who's a preacher. I'm a guy who -- you know, I thought the end was good about I got up and dawn, it was dark. My dad woke me up, the light was coming. Her mission was entirely different. Totally nationalized the race.

Make the race about Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and yes, sort of Raphael Warnock, too. But really that this is a takeover of socialism. And it's on the march. And the only way that you can stop it is by voting for Kelly Loeffler. She didn't really talk that much about what she did for the state other than say I have Georgia on my mind at all times. BLITZER: Yes. She did have her talking points as she repeated and

repeated and repeated those points over and over again.

Maeve, we've been discussing how President Trump's messages of a so- called rigged election -- and it wasn't a rigged election -- could actually deter supporters from voting in the Georgia runoff elections on January 5th. Did she do enough tonight, do you think, to motivate those Trump supporters who might be on the fence, who might be reluctant to go bother and vote?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think to your point just now, Wolf, you know, she sounded almost robotic sometimes in her answers. Just sort of repeating the same phrases. And again that's been the consistent criticism of her all the way along. But she did drive home the point that there are a lot of things at stake with control of the Senate. She mentioned obviously her abortion views.

The fears that is some have that there will be court packing to try to minimize the conservative majority on the Supreme Court. So she really did try to make those arguments that will be most important to those base voters that she needs to get to the polls this time. But I think that she really had a hard time sort of explaining why they should get out for her. You heard her talk a little bit more about her biography, the fact that she grew up on a farm and she worked in the fields and that she was a waitress.

But she didn't find any way to connect that to the struggles that many Americans are facing right now. She's really had a hard time sort of filling out her biography and what she will do for them. And I think that was one of the big issues that she had tonight, Wolf.

BLITZER: You know, and that's an important point as well. You know, Ron, in a recent article that you wrote for CNN, you said that the president has succeeded in silencing dissent across the Republican Party.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. But I want you to listen to how Senator Loeffler responded tonight when she was asked if she believes President Trump's claims that the election were rigged. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREG BLUESTEIN, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Senator, did you believe that the election was rigged?

SEN. KELLY LOEFFLER (R), GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: Look, Greg, it's very clear that there were issues in this election. There are 250 investigations open, including an investigation into one of my opponent's organizations, you know, for voter fraud. And we have to make sure that Georgians trust this process because of what's at stake in this election. You know, the promise that Chuck Schumer made was to fundamentally change America. And I'm making sure that we don't go down the road of socialism.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: OK, Ron, so how did that response, and we heard that several times from her during the course of the past hour. How do you think that response will play?

BROWNSTEIN: It's really very revealing, Wolf. And it is why it is a mistake to assume that all of these Republicans are falling in line with President Trump's unfounded claims of fraud only because they are afraid of him. They are falling in line also because like Kelly Loeffler, they have invested in a strategy that requires massive turnout among his voters.

You can take the almost out of what Maeve said. That was about as robotic a performance as you are ever going to see in a debate.

[20:05:03]

It was -- she almost made herself into like a human avatar of Republican talking points. But all of them were specifically targeted over and over again, a kind of, you know, a pinpointing the anxieties of the Trump base, the non-urban, non-college in particular Trump base. I mean, that performance did not say she was someone hoping to turn around the Republican erosion in Cobb and Gwinnett Counties outside of Atlanta.

And then from Warnock, you saw a completely different strategy. If Loeffler wanted to kind of separate this on a left-right continuum, he wanted to make it ordinary person versus rich person who is only looking out for themselves. He was basically saying, I am one of you and she is not. And that I think was -- you know, they were cutting through the electorate at a completely different axis in this debate.

And that maybe one reason why it felt like they were talking past each other. The other reason, of course, was that she was not really engaging with anything that anyone said. It was almost as if you were putting coins in a jukebox and getting, you know, A4 socialism, A6 radical liberal Raphael Warnock.

BLITZER: Yes. We kept hearing that over and over again.

And, Maeve, we know that President Trump has publicly trashed Georgia's Republican Governor Brian Kemp. Privately, he's gone even further in really just saying rather awful things about him. The issue, of course, the state election system. He even called Kemp yesterday trying to pressure him to help overturn the former vice president's win in the state.

I want you to hear how Loeffler responded when asked specifically about President Trump's criticism of her own Republican governor who appointed her to the U.S. Senate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA RAYAM, WABE RADIO ATLANTA: President Trump criticized your governor, Governor Brian Kemp. Governor Kemp appointed you to the Senate. You've criticized the election process as well. So tonight can you tell us where your loyalty lies as you vie to represent the state of Georgia? Is it with Governor Kemp or President Trump?

LOEFFLER: Lisa, my loyalties are with Georgia. I had a calling to public service to serve the people of Georgia. Look, I have lived the American dream. I want to make sure every Georgian can do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, Maeve. What did you think?

RESTON: So I think that's the definition of a dodge. But, you know, obviously, that was a really tough question for her because the voters that she needs to turn out are those Trump voters. But really, it's been these Republican state leaders who have ended up being sort of the heroes in upholding democracy in this country. And you saw Governor Kemp yesterday hold the line and say that he wasn't going to give in to the demands that President Trump is making here.

And also said that it wasn't in his authority to do some of the things that President Trump is asking him to do. So I think that will be another issue that people will watch her answer and say, you know what, this is sort of a question that would have allowed her to show authenticity. And instead she dodged. So not a good moment for her, Wolf, in that debate.

BLITZER: Yes, you know and --

CILLIZZA: I just --

BLITZER: Yes, go ahead. Go --

CILLIZZA: I just wanted to add, just to accentuate Maeve's point. This shows why Donald Trump makes it harder on Republicans. It's a hard enough question to say, do you think the election was rigged, because the president who is of your party, says it is, even though there's no evidence that it was. But it's even harder when the president is attacking the Republican governor and the Republican secretary of state in this state, that Kelly Loeffler has to say, well, yes, Brian Kemp did appoint me against Donald Trump's wishes, I might add. He wanted Doug Collins who she bested in the primary.

It's so hard to thread that needle. It's impossible to look anything but like you're waffling because the honest answer is, there's no answer for Kelly Loeffler to give to that question because as Ron noted, she is making a 100 percent hard core appeal to the Trump base. She's not trying to reach out to the middle. The Trump base, the Trump base, the Trump base. And the only way you can do that is not to say, yes, well, maybe that Brian Kemp is doing what he should be doing, which is upholding the law and protecting democracy, to Maeve's point. It's just an impossible place that he's putting these candidates on which the Senate majority relies in.

BLITZER: You know, Ron, the poll -- I saw a poll the other day in Georgia. It shows a very, very close contest on both -- for both of these two Senate seats on January 5th. You do a lot of work looking at these polls. It is very close right now. Could go either way. Right? BROWNSTEIN: Right. It clearly is -- these are going to be -- these are

going to go down to the wire. It's very hard to poll for a special election like this in terms of who turns out. I think it's very hard for pollsters to predict.

The reality is, Wolf, Democrats have not elected a senator in Georgia since 2000. The last senator they elected was Zell Miller, who you covered, that I covered, a very conservative former governor who was so conservative he ended up endorsing George W. Bush at the 2004 Republican convention.

[20:10:07]

So the fact that Senate control is coming down to Georgia, while it is an evolving state, is an indication -- is a reflection of the core problem Democrats have, more states lean Republican than Democrat at the presidential level, and it's very hard for either side to win Senate seats excepts in the states that they usually win in the presidential contest.

Having said that, the polling shows that these races are within reach for Democrats. And while Republicans like Mike Pence and -- they welcomed Vice President Pence and President Trump in effect to nationalize the race, Democrats face a much tougher choice about the extent to which they allow this to become a referendum on which side you want to control the Senate. It's still not clear to me that there's a safe majority in Georgia for the Democratic side of that proposition.

BLITZER: All right. Everybody, stand by, Ron, Chris, Ryan and Maeve. We're going to continue to follow all the breaking news.

But there's other breaking news we're following tonight as well here in THE SITUATION ROOM. President Trump saying his personal attorney, the former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani has now tested positive for the coronavirus, as the number of Americans sick and in hospitals right now with COVID-19 reaches an all-time high.

We'll update you on that and much more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BLITZER: The coronavirus pandemic is dangerously surging right now. The U.S. reported its highest number ever of people currently hospitalized with COVID-19 today. More than 101,000 people. This is the fifth consecutive day that hospitalizations here in the United States have surpassed 100,000. Saturday there were more than 213,000 COVID-19 cases and 2,254 confirmed deaths they were reported.

But while the president is avoiding any talk of the pandemic, focusing instead on relitigating an election he lost, it is once again inside his inner circle, we're talking about Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, the former mayor of New York City. Right now Giuliani is in a Washington, D.C. hospital, the Georgetown University Medical Center. He was admitted there just a little while ago earlier today.

Let's get straight to the White House. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is on the scene for us.

Very little information, specific information we're getting about Giuliani' condition, Jeremy. Most of it curiously is coming from the president, although there was a little bit coming from Giuliani's son.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. President Trump confirmed this afternoon that Rudy Giuliani has tested positive for coronavirus. The president didn't say when Giuliani tested positive for the virus. But we know that over the last week, Giuliani has been crisscrossing the country. He was in Arizona, he was in Michigan, and on Thursday, just three days ago, you can see him there in the Georgia state capitol where he was clearly not abiding by CDC public health guidelines, interacting with folks without a mask, no social distancing.

He was hugging, he was shaking hands, he was taking pictures with folks very close to each other. And that has to be pointed out, Wolf, because when you engage in this reckless behavior at a time when millions of Americans know how to safely go about their daily lives wearing masks, keeping social distance, when you engage in this kind of behavior, you increase your risk for having this virus and also for spreading it to others as unwittingly as you may do so because you can transmit this virus asymptomatically.

Now the question is, how is Giuliani doing now? We don't know exactly. But Rudy Giuliani's son says that his father is resting, getting great care and feeling well. One source familiar with the matter did tell me that Giuliani was admitted today to Georgetown University Hospital, which of course suggests that his condition is serious enough to at least warrant hospitalization.

But we are keeping track of this, Wolf. And we'll let you know if we get any updates.

BLITZER: I want to get back to Giuliani and his condition in a moment, Jeremy. But you're getting some new breaking news on the attorney general of the United States, Bill Barr, who's been criticized as we know by the president. What can you tell us?

DIAMOND: That's right. The Attorney General Bill Barr has been feuding with the president. The feuding perhaps has come more from the president's side after the attorney general said earlier this week that he has not seen and the Justice Department any evidence so far of widespread voter fraud of the kind that President Trump has been talking about for weeks.

And now a source with knowledge of the matter tells our colleague Jamie Gangel that Attorney General Bill Barr is considering resigning before President Trump leaves office on January 20th. This source telling Jamie that Bill Barr is not someone who takes bullying and turns the other cheek. But that he has not yet made a final decision on this. We know of course that the president himself, he refused to say whether or not he has confidence in Barr just earlier this week, saying that's something we should ask him in a few weeks. Obviously not a ringing endorsement.

And our sources have told us that the president has considered firing the attorney general. But he's been advised against doing so. So the question may be now, is this a game of chicken, of who can -- whether the president can fire Barr first or if Barr will decide to quit before that happens -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. This is a significant development because we know that Bill Barr in his public statements, in that interview with the Associated Press, of course, which showed deeply irritated and angered the president, Barr specifically said, Jeremy, that not only the Department of Justice but the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI looked into these allegations of widespread voter fraud and they did not see it.

They have not found any evidence to back that up. And that -- and we can only underscore how much that angered the president who refused to express his support for him. Is that right?

DIAMOND: Yes, that's exactly right. And Bill Barr was quite clear that there has not been any evidence of widespread voter fraud that they have uncovered. We know the president has fired someone before for telling the truth, for acknowledging reality, and that was Chris Krebs, the former director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.

[20:20:06]

The president fired him for debunking many of the conspiracy theories that the president himself has been hawking. Now the question is, will the president fire a member of his own Cabinet, one of the most loyal members of his Cabinet, we should note, for doing the same thing?

BLITZER: And now that this story has come out, I wouldn't be surprised, Jeremy, knowing the president as we all do if he decides to tweet that Bill Barr might be gone. But we shall see what the president -- how the president's reacting to what you and I have just been reported.

All right, Jeremy, stand by. I know you're working your sources. We'll get back to you.

I want to get back to the breaking news on Rudy Giuliani. A source telling CNN the president's lawyer now at Georgetown University Hospital here in Washington. The president tweeted earlier today that Giuliani did test positive for the coronavirus. He was on FOX News earlier in the day. But then he got the test results. He is in the hospital right now.

Let's discuss what's going on with Dr. William Schaffner, professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, and Dr. Esther Choo, a CNN medial analyst, professor of Emergency Agency, at Oregon Health and Science University.

So, Dr. Choo, Rudy Giuliani, we know he's 76 years old. He is overweight. We do know that. He suffered from prostate cancer. He's had other underlying health conditions. And in recent days, he's been traveling around the country. So what does this signal to you about his risk level right now? What do you anticipate he is going through over at Georgetown Hospital?

DR. ESTHER CHOO, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. Unfortunately, Mr. Giuliani, who I wish well, did a lot of things that we textbook are telling people not to do. So this is someone in a higher risk category who is kind of famous for not wearing masks in these public gatherings, not keeping his distance from people, and being indoors for extended periods of time. Even asked a witness in a recent hearing to remove her mask so that they could hear her more clearly.

So it seems like he was going out of his way to increase his exposure. And, you know, you can do that a number of times and manage to dodge the bullet. But it is a little bit like playing Russian roulette. And we know that face mask wearing certainly protects other people from being exposed. But it also can confer a layer of protection to yourself. So somebody like him who like you said hits a number of categories in terms of risk should have been extra careful in universally mask wearing.

And sooner or later, you know, your luck runs out, especially if you're exposed all the time like he seems to have been and he was in multiple states over the past week where case counts are rising, hospitalizations are rising, you know, Michigan, Georgia, Arizona, all those places have had huge surges in deaths including 100 percent surge over the past two weeks in Arizona. So he had a lot of reasons to have plenty of exposure along the way and expose other people.

BLITZER: And I assume, Dr. Schaffner, that all those individuals he was shaking hands with, he was hugging, taking pictures with, they weren't wearing masks, all of those individuals right now over the past few days, they have to go into quarantine and get tested right away, because even before you have some symptoms, you could still be contagious.

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: That's absolutely correct. So all of those people should be in quarantine. Fortunately, we have some new quarantine rules which might ease that a little bit. If you don't get tested, then you should be in quarantine for full 10 days now. But if you remain without symptoms and you do get a test at about day five, six or seven, you can get out by day seven if you have a negative test.

But for sure, you could turn positive and you don't want to expose people around you. So that's really the reason to be quarantined. And he's had contact with many, many, many people in all of those different states. So that's many people who ought to very seriously now think about getting themselves in quarantine for their own benefit and the benefit of their families, and everybody else around them.

BLITZER: So what does it say to you, Dr. Choo, that he was immediately -- as soon as he got this result, from this test, that he was immediately taken to Georgetown University Hospital here in Washington, D.C.? Because usually, if you get a positive test, you stay at home for a few days, if you start to deteriorate, and obviously, we hope he doesn't deteriorate, but if you start to deteriorate, that's when you go to the hospital. What does it say to you that he was immediately taken to the hospital?

CHOO: Yes. Well, if he were anybody else, I would assume that he started to have respiratory symptoms or otherwise not feel well because he is someone in this administration who is close to the president, it may be another case of using an abundance of caution. And that's another point, actually, about how cavalierly he was behaving, is you can be a little bit more casual when you know that as soon as you get sick, you get world-class treatment, including being rushed to the hospital when other people might stay at home and not have the options for treatment and close monitoring.

[20:25:09]

So we'll I'm sure get more information over the next couple of days. But certainly, there remains the possibility that he is not feeling well and that he is starting to get very symptomatic from his disease.

BLITZER: Do you think preemptively, Dr. Schaffner, they should be giving him that Regeneron, that monoclonal cocktail, for example, that the president received once he was over at the Walter Reed Medical Center, some other treatments that are available right now under emergency use out of an abundance of caution, even if he doesn't have the symptoms that would require it?

SCHAFFNER: I think the doctors at Georgetown are going to do all the good things, the right things according to the best ways we treat patients today. And they will be considering all of those treatments quite appropriately. They'll be examining him from head to foot, as exactly as Dr. Choo says. They'll have particular attention to his lung function and his oxygen saturation. They'll look at the function of his other organ systems.

They may -- they will be sure that he is extremely well hydrated. And we wish him well and hope he gets through this and recovers quickly and completely.

BLITZER: Yes. We certainly do. We will see what's going on. But obviously, at his age, 76, with his underlying health conditions, he smokes a lot of cigars, we know that, and he did have prostate cancer. There's obviously at lot of concern right now. And the doctors over at Georgetown I'm sure have to act under an abundance of caution.

You know, it was really amazing to me and very sad, Dr. Choo, and I'm sure to you as well, just last night, the president of the United States was at a political rally in Georgia. There were thousands of people there. No social distancing at all. And most of those folks were not wearing masks. And you can see some of the images that we're getting from Valdosta, Georgia, where the president was last night.

You would think that the president of the United States and his advisers would not be encouraging this kind of super spreader, very dangerous event at a time when these numbers of cases, hospitalizations and deaths are exploding here in the United States. CHOO: You would think. And it does send such a terrible message and a

bad example. But I will say there is hope for people who see that and are discouraged because when we do -- when we look at polls, we see the increasing numbers of people believe in face masks, wear it at least sometimes. Often many people over 70 percent wear it almost always. And so, you know, I think there's what we see on the media and unfortunate events like that.

But I think the majority of Americans really are starting to believe in these public health measures and are doing the day-to-day things that are not that hard but contribute to control of this disease.

BLITZER: This is so dangerous and so potentially deadly. Folks have to wear masks, social distance, be very, very careful. Unfortunately, that's not the message we are getting from the president of the United States right now.

Dr. Choo, thank you very much. Dr. Schaffner, thanks to you as well. Thanks to both of you for what you're doing saving lives.

Also breaking tonight, as the country faces one of the worst moments yet in this pandemic, we're now learning that the President-elect Joe Biden is tapping California's attorney general Xavier Becerra to head up the key department over at the Health and Human Services to become the secretary of Health and Human Services.

What do we know about the man who would take over this truly critical post in the fight against the coronavirus? We have new information. We will share it with you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:33:14]

BLITZER: President-elect Joe Biden is weighing some major picks for his administration. Tonight we've learning he's ready to name his Health and Human Services secretary, a truly critical position in the fight against coronavirus.

Let's go to CNN's Arlette Saenz. She's in Wilmington, Delaware, covering the transition for us.

Arlette, so tell our viewers who the president-elect is getting ready to nominate to become the secretary of Health and Human Services.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, President- elect Joe Biden is building out his health team. And he is expected to nominate California attorney general Xavier Becerra to be the next secretary of Health and Human Services. Now Becerra has served as the attorney general of California and also is a former member of Congress. And in his role as attorney general, he has led a lot of the legal efforts to try to protect the Affordable Care Act.

And he is also a Latino. He would be the second Latino nominated to President-elect Biden's Cabinet. The fifth person of color to be part of that Cabinet as well. And this comes as Biden had faced some pressure from Latino groups and also members of Congress pushing him to name more Latinos to his Cabinet.

We've also seen other groups pushing for black leaders to be nominated to the Cabinet as well. But this selection of Becerra is critically important for Biden as he is crafting his plans to combat the coronavirus pandemic. You saw from the start, right after he won the general election, Biden rolled out his coronavirus task force, which has already been meeting, meeting additionally with the Trump administration, getting that information for what their plans are, including a vaccine distribution. And Becerra, if he is confirmed, will face a very daunting task as they try to tackle this pandemic going forward.

[20:35:04]

But Biden has really placed this emphasis on organizing this health team as it's one of the major tasks of the early days of his administration.

BLITZER: Another major appointment, we're told, you know, Arlette, the former surgeon general of the United States, Dr. Vivek Murthy, who served during the Obama administration, he's now the co-chair of the Biden transition COVID Advisory Council.

Do we know -- I assume we've confirmed that he's being considered now for reprise to once again become the next surgeon general.

SAENZ: Well, we know that Dr. Vivek Murthy is expected to have some type of role within this administration. He has been a longtime adviser to Biden when it comes to health issues, even starting going back to the early days of this pandemic. He was on that group that was advising Biden on how he should approach things starting back in March. And now he has been one of those leading figures on his coronavirus task force as they are trying to get all of these plans together for the start of their administration.

Murthy has certainly been a very important voice, both in the Obama administration and now when it comes to advising the president-elect about how he should proceed with this pandemic.

BLITZER: All right, Arlette, I know you're working your sources. We anticipate there will be several major Cabinet and other senior position announcements coming from the president-elect maybe as early as tomorrow. We will watch all of this very, very closely.

Arlette Saenz, in Wilmington, for us. Thank you.

It's been nearly a month since the presidential election was called for Joe Biden. Even though many states, almost all of them, have officially certified their results, get this, only 27 Republican lawmakers in the House and Senate have publicly recognized that Joe Biden won the election and will be the next president of the United States in 45 days.

So why is that number so low? One of those 27 is standing by live. We'll discuss when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:41:10]

BLITZER: On December 14th, in the coming days, the U.S. electoral college will convene to cast the 306 votes that will make Joe Biden the 46th president of the United States. You need 270 electoral votes. He has 306. Yet this past week, "The Washington Post" contacted -- get this -- all 249 Republicans in the House of Representatives and the Senate. Only 27 of them admitted that Biden won the election. Only 27.

I'm joined now by one of those 27 Republicans, the Virginia Congressman Denver Riggleman.

Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. Are you surprised at all that so many of your Republican colleagues in the House and the Senate, they are refusing to admit that Biden won?

REP. DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R-VA): I'm a little bit surprised. But I might have a bit of an advantage, Wolf. You know, I started and sold two companies that supported the Department of Defense intelligence community in data analysis, algorithm warfare and network modelling. So it might be that I have a little bit more knowledge on how hard it would be to sort of follow some of these conspiracy theories or believe in them.

But the fact that there was only, what, 25 or 27 of us, was a bit of a surprise to me, that people wouldn't answer this because it seems to be pretty cut and dry from what I have seen.

BLITZER: Yes. Biden is ahead in the national popular vote by more than seven million votes. He's ahead by more than seven million votes. 306 in the electoral college, 232 for Trump.

Do you think it's out of fear, Congressman? Or do you really believe that President Trump, you know, may have something on these individuals? What are they saying in private to you? Are they simply scared?

RIGGLEMAN: I think most of them, they know that they still -- they've still got to get elected again. They are worried about the base. They're worried about President Trump's ability, you know, to manipulate certain types of individuals based on what he can do on social media. And as we know, you know, he does like to do that, put out some things that just simply aren't true. Specifically on conspiracy theories, whether it's NSA, you know, hacking into the computer machines or whether it's somehow Dominion has a Venezuelan actor that's embedded code.

Some of those things are just so outlandish and I think again it goes back to my background. But to do something like that on the systemic level would be so very difficult. And it is ludicrous. But I do think people are fearful of the base. I do think there's a few that believe this election does have some kind of massive conspiracy theory associated with it.

But I can tell you based on my background, it's not political, it's technical. It's also the intelligence world and anything like that, when you're talking about these types of conspiracy theories, they're just ludicrous. And I do think once the electoral college comes in, I do hope that more of my colleagues say, hey, enough of this nonsense. Let's go ahead and recognize President-elect Biden. Let's move forward and get this country on track.

BLITZER: In response to that "Washington Post" story, and you know this, Congressman, President Trump tweeted this. And I'll read it to our viewers. He said, "I'm surprised that there are so many. We have just begun to fight. Please send me a list of the 25 RINOs." Republican in name only.

Why did you decide to come forward?

RIGGLEMAN: I'm not a big fan of bullies and I don't care who you are. I don't care where you reside. I don't care where you sit. My job is to represent the people of the 5th District. It's to put people over politics. And also the president is not my boss. The people that voted for me are. And if you want to put people on lists, I find it very hypocritical that we have Republicans jumping on people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and these groups that were trying to out people that worked in the Trump administration, there was a screaming about these lists, and now we're talking about lists on the other side?

You know? And for me, it's this. I don't respond well to bullies. I was nerve in politics to begin with. And I've had a gun stuck in my chest in eastern Europe. I'm not afraid of somebody putting out a tweet. If we have a lot of people mad because of a tweet, and they're really furiously typing on their keyboards, I think they're going to get over it. Because we're to a point right now that if somebody wants to say something about me or say put out a list about me or an Adam Kinzinger, or any of these individuals that said, hey, the election is over, this is the normal thing that we do in the United States, I got a problem with that.

[20:45:08]

So if I could just have a little bit of fun, put up there and say, hey, I'm on the list, that I am. You know, so, and also, you know, his staff has a tough time doing facts and, you know, researching facts and putting those out, so I figured I'd help them out a little bit.

BLITZER: Yes, well, you know, you had the guts to do it. Sadly there are so few of you on the Republican side of the House and Senate. We'll see what happens in the coming days.

But thanks so much, Congressman Riggleman, for everything you're doing. Thanks so much for joining us.

RIGGLEMAN: Wolf, it was a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: I know you have a major book coming out very soon entitled "Bigfoot: It's Complicated." There you see the cover. "Bigfoot: It's Complicated." Give us a sense of what this new book is about. RIGGLEMAN: Well, this book is about conspiracy theories. It's about

how belief systems can take over people's world. Right? And it could be something, you know, as ridiculous a belief that, you know, Bigfoot has allergies to peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And what I tried to do is to show that, you know, you can believe in things, but once you weaponize belief or becomes cultlike, that's when things get dangerous.

And I've been fighting radicalization my whole life, Wolf. You know, I fought ISIS, I fought al Qaeda, I've been overseas, I've done in the National Security Agency, I went after those who are planting IEDs to kill our troops. I've done all of that. And it gets to a point that you have to point out that even if it's something like Bigfoot, those conspiracies or belief systems, once they've become weaponized, they can hurt people, and even though this is a fun book by the end I think people will be a little bit afraid once they see the end of this book.

BLITZER: Looking forward to reading it. Looking forward to have you back.

Congressman Riggleman, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for everything you're doing.

RIGGLEMAN: Wolf, thank you, sir. And you be safe.

BLITZER: You too.

We'll take a quick break. More news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:51:10]

BLITZER: Tonight Lisa Ling is back with two all new back-to-back episodes of "THIS IS LIFE." First off Lisa will take us inside families torn apart by heroin addiction. From kids forced to grow up too soon to mothers fighting to get clean and keep their children, it's a truly heartbreaking look at a massive problem. Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA LING, CNN HOST, "THIS IS LIFE": Hey, Mercedes. She's a pretty easy baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she is. She's happy.

LING: How long have you had her now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two 1/2 weeks.

LING: Given your interactions with Ebony, do you think she can do it? Do you think she can mother this baby?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ebony is a smart girl. It takes a lot to admit, I need help for a minute, let me get some help, get myself together. And then assume care of my child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, when we went to pick her up, she sent me home with two carloads full of baby stuff. So, she clearly loves this child quite a bit.

I used to have the perspective, like, come on, just get your stuff together. But now having seen some stuff firsthand, it's not simple. People can't just pull themselves up by the bootstrap. They need help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The host of "THIS IS LIFE" Lisa Ling is joining us now.

Lisa, first of all, tell us a little bit more about what you witnessed when you visited these families who are struggling with addiction. It certainly seems like the children are the hardest hit. What kind of impact does this have on them?

LING: Well, Wolf, it has an incredible impact on the kids. I mean, it's incredibly traumatizing at all levels of childhood. When it comes to babies, some are born addicted to opioids themselves and have to be weaned off of it -- off of the drugs. And some of the older kids, they deal with isolation, the loss of a parent or both parents.

I met a young woman who told me stories about how when she was about 11 years old, she used to go looking for her mother in the middle of the night in the cold in Ohio. And some of the things these kids have seen are just things that no child should ever have to see.

BLITZER: What kind of support, Lisa, did you find being offered to families who are dealing with this problem of addiction?

LING: Well, I was heartened because this was a different kind of show about opioids and heroin that I've ever done. In the state of Ohio, in the past, if someone were arrested for heroin possession or opioid possession, they could possibly lose custody of their children pretty soon thereafter. But in some counties, the person addicted to drugs has the option of growing through a family treatment court where social workers, a judge and a magistrate literally hold the hands of the person who is addicted and helps them through the process, knowing that that person could go through relapse multiple times.

Social workers there in Ohio are working harder than they ever have. But they say that it's been worth it because they are reuniting parents who have done so much work. And in the end, it's just better for the children if these parents can overcome their addiction.

BLITZER: Lisa, thanks so much for doing this. I'm really looking forward to watching these episodes.

And to our viewers, make sure you watch the new back-to-back episodes of "THIS IS LIFE" starting at the top of the hour right after we're done right here on CNN.

[20:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: I'm Wolf Blitzer. Thanks so much for joining me. I'll be back tomorrow starting at 5:00 p.m. Eastern in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Before we go tonight, we'd like to pay tribute to some of those wonderful people who have lost their lives to the coronavirus.

Linda Ladder Dominguez was 72 years old. She beat cancer four times but lost her battle to the coronavirus, passing away just shy of celebrating her 50th wedding anniversary. Linda leaves behind a husband, two children and three grandchildren. Her family describes her as someone who left an imprint on the heart of everyone she met.

Gary Cannon was 69 years old. A doctor for more than 35 years. He spent the final days of his career working on the frontlines of the pandemic before contracting the virus himself. Gary loved hockey and playing the drums in his band. He was also a husband and a devoted father to his two daughters.

May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.

Two new back-to-back.