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FDA Panel Recommends Authorization of Moderna Vaccine; Trump Checked Out as U.S. Faces Deadliest Day of Pandemic, Stimulus Talks and Russia Cyberattack; Biden Vows to "Not Stand by Idly" in Face of Cyberattacks as Trump Silent on Russia Hack; Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) is Interviewed about Stimulus Deal; Congressional Leaders Near Stimulus Deal as Another 885,000 File First-Time Jobless Claims; Sources: Judge Merrick Garland And Sen. Doug Jones Top Contenders For AG; Key Differences Between The Morderna And Pfizer Vaccines. Aired 5- 6p ET

Aired December 17, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now in a signal of the importance of the youth boat, at least to the Democrats, 33-year-old Ossoff has campaign where they congregate on TikTok. He opened his account earlier this month.

And one of his videos, Jake, garnered 1.4 million likes. The question is whether those social media likes will translate into votes.

Kyung Lah in Atlanta thanks so much. Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room. We're following breaking news.

An FDA advisory panel is voting right now on whether to recommend a second coronavirus vaccine for emergency use authorization, this one made by Moderna. That bit of hopeful news comes at the darkest point to date, in the pandemic as U.S. deaths now top 309,000 people with more than 17 million confirmed cases.

And a record single day number of deaths. Almost 4,000 Americans lost their lives to COVID-19 in just 24 hours. But President Trump has abdicated virtually all responsibility as the country faces not only its worst public health crisis in a century, and the resulting financial crisis, but also a suspected Russian cyberattack targeting multiple federal agencies.

We're also following developments on Capitol Hill where there's growing hope, hope that lawmakers are about to reach a deal on a $900 billion pandemic stimulus relief package to try to ease the suffering of so many millions of Americans. The Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer saying just a little while ago, and I'm quoting now, he says they're "close to an agreement." Let's see.

Let's begin with the latest on the breaking pandemic news right now. CNN Sara Murray is joining us.

Sara, all eyes are on the FDA advisory panel. They're meeting and voting as we speak.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. They just concluded the vote. This is the FDA's independent advisory committee and they are recommending that the FDA provide emergency use authorization for Moderna's coronavirus vaccine. So, that was the full committee vote.

Twenty committee members voted yes to recommend this emergency use authorization. One person abstained. There was no one who voted against this emergency use authorization.

So now the next step for this is it goes back to the FDA, the FDA will have to make a decision about whether to actually grant that emergency use authorization. That could move relatively quickly.

We don't know exactly how quickly but we know the FDA has already looked at a lot of this Moderna's vaccine. They put out, you know, various recommendations before the independent committee met and discussed this vaccine and voted on it. So, we wait to hear the final word from the FDA. We're going to see another CDC meeting this weekend.

But look, after we get this word from the FDA, it's not going to be very long before we start seeing this vaccine go out to states as well. And this is a big deal, Wolf. You know, we know that the supply of vaccines has been extremely limited that's been getting out to states. It's another complaint we heard from states today. And they are hearing various numbers about how many doses they would actually get of the Pfizer vaccine.

So, to have this Moderna vaccine on the cusp, you know, it's huge for the supply of the vaccines going out early on. And you know, we should also note, because of the way this vaccine was developed, you know, Moderna did their vaccine hand in hand with the federal government. This was one of the vaccines that was part of Operation Warp Speed.

So, the federal government has very good insight into how this whole process has worked. You know, they've been working together closely on it. And they just doubled the number of vaccines they had pre ordered from Moderna. So, the number of vaccines that government is ordered is 200 million.

Again, we still have a couple more steps before we finally get to this emergency use authorization. But it would be very surprising if we don't see the FDA move pretty swiftly to sign off on this.

BLITZER: Yes, I'm sure they will.

Sara, standby I want to bring in our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, this is a big deal, because not only will there be potentially in the next few weeks and months, millions of the Pfizer vaccine available to Americans, but now millions of doses of the of the Moderna vaccine that's also going to be available.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this, you know, this is a huge step, Wolf. There's obviously as, Sara, was just mentioning, there's a couple more steps which look pretty much preordained. The Advisory Committee now makes this recommendation to the FDA, with the Pfizer vaccine just a week ago. Wolf, you know, the authorization then came the next day, Friday of last week.

The actual confirmed authorization on this vaccine may even come tonight. We're going to keep an eye on that. This was an overwhelming vote in favor of the Moderna vaccine.

And they've been, you know, they've been manufacturing these vaccines. Both Pfizer and Moderna at risk for some time, meaning they didn't have an authorization, but they were, you know, kind of counting on the idea that they would get one and started manufacturing.

[17:05:00]

So as a result, you could have an additional 2 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine and, you know, five or 6 million doses roughly of the Moderna vaccine that could go out in the next week.

And you member, Wolf, our -- when we started looking at the overall production and the manufacturing of these vaccines, the anticipation was at 40 million doses could go up by the end of the year. That was both Pfizer and Moderna.

So, if you think about it, you know, you're manufacturing, you're rolling it out weekly, probably, as we're going to see. And by the end of the year, 40 million doses mean 20 million people could at least get the first dose of this vaccine, which is -- which is pretty remarkable, Wolf. I mean, in that first group of people, as you know, health care workers and people in long term care facilities, depending on how you look at it, that's roughly 20 to 25 million people.

You would be close at the end of the year, potentially, Wolf, to have that first group, at least in immunized or in the process of getting immunized.

BLITZER: And what's so encouraging, Sanjay, is that both of these vaccines, the Pfizer vaccine, the Moderna vaccine, they have about 95 percent effective -- they're effective for 95 percent of those who get it. That's an extremely high number for any vaccine.

One difference is the Pfizer vaccine is for individuals 16 years and older. The Moderna vaccine is for individuals 18 years and older. Pfizer you have to wait three weeks for the -- for the second shot, the Moderna, you wait four weeks, but those aren't very significant differences.

GUPTA: No, they're not significant differences.

And what the, you know, a lot of people ask the efficacy, the middle of the screen their 95 percent efficacy, what does that really mean? Well, what they studied as you -- as you know, Wolf, was the efficacy was at reducing the disease, meaning reducing the symptoms of disease.

If you get the vaccine, it's greatly protective, in terms of keeping you from developing -- getting sick, developing symptoms. There's some early evidence that it could also help decrease the likelihood you become infected, which would obviously be critical as well.

But the idea that if you start to have enough people in the country who have this sort of protection, that even if the virus is still circulating, people aren't getting sick. That obviously is, you know, that's what most people would want, you know, you may not even know you're carrying the virus, you're not going to get sick enough people around you are inoculated, so they're not going to get sick. That's the sort of situation you hope that you can get into in this country, maybe by the middle of next year.

But you're right, Wolf, one shot -- one shot followed three weeks later by another shot for the Pfizer vaccine. And then about seven days after that is when you should have the full effects of that immunity.

With the Moderna vaccine, if it gets authorized, and it's looking very encouraging. One shot four weeks later, and then about 14 days after that. So total of six weeks, Wolf, to get the full sort of, you know, the full calendar before you get that immunity.

BLITZER: This is very, very good news. And January, February, they're expecting potentially two more vaccines, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine might be authorized, might be OK by then. The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine might be OK. So, things are moving on the vaccine front very, very quickly, which is very encouraging.

Sanjay, I want you to stand by we're going to have more on this major development that's unfolding.

Dr. Francis Collins, the Director of the National Institutes of Health, he's going to be joining us. We have lots to discuss with him as well.

But right now, I want to go to the White House. Our Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta is standing by.

Jim, President Trump, sadly, is absent amid this national emergency that's going on, record numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and sadly, deaths. Instead of getting involved, speaking out trying to do something as President of the United States, he's simply complaining about the election he lost. And you have some new reporting on that. What's the latest?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. We have not seen the President today, even with the coronavirus, exploding out of control, he is fixated on the election loss. He is fixated on his grievances.

And even some of President's own advisors are growing weary of Mr. Trump's complaints about losing election, as one advisor told me, "whining is unbecoming," the president's whining is unbecoming. "Life's not fair, so what?" That's the word coming from one Trump advisor.

But the President is nursing these grievances as the pandemic is raging out of control and an old nemesis Russia is once again testing the U.S. as Moscow appears to have ties to a massive cyberattack against the federal government. Mr. Trump barely seems to notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): One day after the death toll from the coronavirus and the U.S. reached an all-time high injecting more misery into the U.S. economy, President Trump is out of sight and out of touch actually taking a victory lap on the pandemic, tweeting, "All-time stock market high the vaccine and the vaccine rollout are getting the best of reviews. Moving along really well get those shots everyone. Also, stimulus talks looking very good."

[17:10:00]

Instead of crushing the virus the Trump administration is still carrying out its assault on the election with Vice President Mike Pence echoing his boss's bogus claims of voter fraud.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, I know we've all got doubts about the last election. That's why we're going to keep right on fight.

ACOSTA: Pence was out stumping for Georgia's and dangerous Republican senators who like much of the GOP can't admit Joe Biden beat Mr. Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you acknowledged that Biden will be the president?

SEN. KELLY LOEFFLER (R-GA): Look there -- the President has a right to every legal recourse. That's what's playing out right now. I'm focused on winning this race on January 5.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But have you acknowledged that Biden is going to be president?

LOEFFLER: Look, my focus is on winning this race right now. It's vitally important that Georgians understand the American Dream is on the ballot.

ACOSTA: Behind the scenes, sources say, the president is not just fixated on the election. He's obsessed with Joe Biden's son Hunter. Not so Mr. Trump tweeted, insisting, "I have nothing to do with the potential prosecution of Hunter Biden or the Biden family. It is just more fake news. Actually, I find it very sad to watch."

But his own advisors are tired of hearing it as one source close to the White House told CNN Mr. Trump's "whining is unbecoming. Life's not fair. So what?"

The President also has yet to denounce Russia suspected role in a recent cyberattack on U.S. federal agencies through a massive data breach, as Mr. Trump's former Homeland Security Adviser Tom Bossert wrote in a New York Times op-ed, "President Trump is on the verge of leaving behind a federal government and perhaps a large number of major industries compromised by the Russian government." It's a reminder of the time the President sided with Vladimir Putin over U.S. intelligence agencies on Russian interference in 2016.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia.

I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be.

ACOSTA: A show of weakness that outraged his own advisors.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think Putin is smart, tough. I think he sees that. He's not faced with a serious adversary here.

I think Putin thinks he can play him like a fiddle. I don't think he's worried about Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: In a statement, Biden warn Russia, "As president I will not stand idly by in the face of cyber assaults on our nation."

Despite the Russian threat, Mr. Trump tweeted he will veto a bipartisan defense bill, arguing the legislation would, "Make China very unhappy. They love it."

SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): We got to get this defense bill passed because there's so much in it to help us defend ourselves. Ironically, the bill is sitting on the President's desk at the moment of this most recent attack.

ACOSTA: As for the pandemic, the President's own close advisers are now breaking from his leadership on COVID-19. All but begging Trump supporters to use masks.

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: This message isn't for everyone. It's for all those people who refuse to wear a mask.

You know, lying in isolation and ICU for seven days, I thought about how wrong I was to remove my mask at the White House.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

ACOSTA: And Vice President Mike Pence is departing somewhat from Mr. Trump on the coronavirus vaccine and that he has scheduled an event for tomorrow morning to receive a shot in front of the cameras. That of course will beg the question when will the President be vaccinated publicly? And will it happen before he leaves office?

The White House says that is up to Mr. Trump's doctors. But the President has the potential, Wolf, as you know, to convince millions of his supporters to get vaccinated. And we're just getting no guidance from the White House as to when the President might actually get his shot. Wolf.

BLITZER: Interesting. All right, Jim Acosta standby. We're going to get back to you as well.

Let's discuss what's going on. Our chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger is with us. And our CNN Senior Political Commentator, David Axelrod is with us as well.

You know, Gloria, nearly 4,000 Americans died just yesterday, in one day. The government just suffered a major cyberattack, yet President Trump is nowhere to be seen on these critically important issues. What is going on?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you kind of have to wonder, Wolf, why the President is spending so much time saying he should remain in office when he is in office, and he is not doing his job. He is not talking to the American public about COVID.

He tweeted today bragging about the stock market a little bit. He is not telling the American public, showing the American public how he can get a shot in his arm, at least not yet. That would really help a lot of people. They look to him for leadership, he should be doing that.

But I think most important is what Jim was talking about this cyberattack on the American government. And let me just quote Mitt Romney to you and not exactly the President's best friend. But he said, I think the white house needs to say something aggressive about what happened.

And this is interesting. He said this is almost as if you had a Russian bomber, flying undetected over the country, including over the nation's capital, and not to respond in a setting like that is really stunning. So matter what Mr. Putin seems to be doing, whether it's bounties on the heads of American troops, whether it's the attempted assassination, of a Russian opposition leader, Mr. Navalny, the President will not say anything about Mr. Putin.

[17:15:08]

And the American public needs to know that he is in charge of trying to figure out just what happened here when the American government was hacked.

BLITZER: Yes. It was an attack. It was a real attack.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: You know, David, the President only seems to care right now about overturning the election. He clearly lost, the Electoral College says he lost, he lost. Everyone agrees he lost except for some of his supporters and himself. Does it look though, like he has any real interest though in actually doing the job he's so desperately fighting the key?

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: Clearly not. Just parenthetically, it was interesting to hear Senator Loeffler down there in Georgia saying, I'm not going to acknowledge that Joe Biden is going to be the president. But you bet -- but on the other hand, she's telling voters, but you better like me as a check against him, right? So, she wants to have it -- she wants to have it both ways.

But, look, I don't -- I think what, you know, just adding on to what Senator Romney said, in addition to neglecting this killer pandemic, and maybe the most serious cyberattack we've ever experienced from a malign, you know, the competitor country, enemy out there. He's also serving Putin's interests in another way, by trying to see doubt about American democracy, which may be the greatest victory for Putin of all.

That's Putin's goal is to try and undermine all the western democracies and sow seeds of doubt about democratic institutions. And the President is aiding and abetting that effort while not doing the job that he was elected to do.

BLITZER: Well, you're absolutely right, David, you know.

And Gloria, three years, the U.S. intelligence community has concluded that Russia's main goal, as far as the United States is concerned is to sow dissent in the United States, to undermine America's democracy. And in effect, weaken the United States around the world. That's their main goal right now. And they seem to have a friend right now who's actually trying to do that.

BORGER: Well, who knew their greatest ally would be none other than the President of the United States, who at every turn is undermining democracy, who is encouraging and keeping a list of those people in the Congress who are going to support him, who is talking to his 74 million supporters and saying, don't pay attention to this guy, Joe Biden, because he doesn't belong in the Oval Office. And even if he gets there, don't worry, I'll be back in four years.

He could not be doing anything more to undermine democracy and American voters and the sanctity of the vote and free and fair elections. And I could go -- I could go on and on and on.

But to Donald Trump, this isn't really about all that, I don't think. I think what it's mostly about is his grievance that he didn't win, period.

BLITZER: Yes, because in his mind, being a loser is the -- is the most awful thing that could happen to anyone. They'll never admit that he was a loser. And I'm sure he'll go forward after January 20.

And continue to insist there was widespread fraud. It was a rigged election, he really won by millions. He had a big win. But obviously, he's going to be a loser. He's leaving after January 20.

You know, it's also interesting, David, that the President-elect Joe Biden, he's trying to show he's on top of these issues, even before he takes office during this transition. He's vowing to take action on the cyberattack. He's keeping the pandemic front and center. This contrast is pretty stark.

AXELROD: Yes, it really is. It's like we have someone who's already assuming the role of president and a president who is unwilling to do it. And you know, it's important for people to have that confidence that Biden is on top of it, and we'll be ready on January 20 to face these challenges. But it is really, really striking that in the contrast.

And general, look, I will tell you how closely, we worked on national security issues and economic issues with the Bush administration, in the transition back in 2008. There was no question.

But that there was going to be a handoff and that we needed to know what they knew. And we needed to consult with each other on the way forward. There's not -- no -- not a scintilla of that here. And it really puts the country at risk.

And I think part of what Biden wants to do is to -- is to save the country. We've got this. Despite all of this, we're going to be ready when the bell rings to take over and do it properly.

BLITZER: And let's not forget on top of all of this, because of COVID- 19 and the pandemic, the U.S. Department of Labor this morning announced that nearly 900,000 Americans lost their jobs, had to file for first time unemployment benefits just last week.

These are individuals who had to jobs have families. Almost 900,000, 885,000 Americans now for the first time are filing for unemployment benefits. Do we hear a word about that from the President of the United States?

[17:20:11]

BORGER: No.

BLITZER: No. He was silent.

BORGER: No, we heard about the stock market.

BLITZER: We heard that the stock market is doing...

AXELROD: Yes.

BLITZER: ... very, very -- but for these nearly 900,000 individuals who lost their jobs last week and are not forced to file for unemployment benefits for the first time, not a word.

All right, guy standby. We're continuing to follow the other breaking news with more on the FDA advisory panel vote recommending emergency use authorization for the Moderna coronavirus vaccine.

And we'll also talk to Senator Dick Durbin about the breaking news on Capitol Hill right now where lawmakers are pushing to reach a deal on a pandemic relief package. Standby.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:06]

BLITZER: Right now, we're watching urgent developments up on Capitol Hill where negotiators are still trying to work out the details of an economic relief package. We got another reminder once again of how urgently it's needed today when the U.S. Labor Department reported 885,000 Americans had to file for first time unemployment benefits just last week, in one week alone.

We're joined now by Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois. He's the Minority Whip, the number two member of the Democratic leadership.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

Your warning it would be, in your word, an unforgiveable and embarrassing tragedy if the government shuts down because Congress can't reach a deal on coronavirus relief. What's the latest on these negotiations? Is there an agreement in sight right now?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): All, I can tell you, Wolf, that three weeks ago eight senators for Democrats, four Republicans, I was one of them. We sat down and ate dinner and said to one another socially distant, we got to do something. And we came up with a plan. We worked on it for three weeks. We proposed it on Tuesday.

And the good news is the leaders took it up immediately. And they are now negotiating, actively negotiating with Treasury Secretary Mnuchin. It's got to be done.

The day after Christmas. 12 million Americans will lose their unemployment benefits if we do nothing. And every day thereafter, another tragedy will hit another family or a sector of our economy. That's unacceptable.

BLITZER: Your part, as you pointed out correctly of this bipartisan group that's trying to put this proposal together and get it passed.

You've said that state and local aid is an absolutely critical, but it appears that aid may not necessarily be included in this final package. Why did that become such a sticking point?

DURBIN: I can't tell you why the other party felt so strongly. But we had to compromise, we had to bring what we could to the -- to the floor of the Senate.

We wanted to have a $900 billion package in that range. And we wanted to include state local government. But at the end of the day, we had to reach an agreement. We reached an agreement on $748 billion dollars. That's a huge amount of money desperately needed by businesses and families and all across the country.

Money for the logistics of transporting vaccines, for goodness sakes. Is there any higher priority than that?

BLITZER: Will you be voting in favor of the bill even if state and local aid is omitted (ph)?

DURBIN: Well, reluctantly, I will. It's a shame because we need to help across the United States. But I'm not going to let the best be the enemy of the good. If we can get some benefits, unemployment benefits, business benefits, health and education in areas like that, I think we desperately need it, and I will support it.

BLITZER: Yes, millions and millions of Americans are suffering right now. We've seen these long food lines. They can't even pay the rent. They're having major, major problems. They need help. And they need it quickly.

I want you to listen to a very powerful statement. One of your colleagues, Senator Chris Murphy, made on CNN last night, listen to this, Senator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): There are regular patriotic Americans out there who don't believe that Joe Biden is actually president. And you know why? Because as patriotic Americans, they've been told to listen to the President of the United States, to listen to U.S. senators.

And so when the President and U.S. senators tell them over and over and over again, that the election was rigged, they believe it, not because they're crazy, but because they have faith that people in positions of power are going to tell them the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you agree with your colleague on this?

DURBIN: I certainly do, Wolf. And it really is sad.

Just think about last week when we had 17 Republican attorneys general, filing a lawsuit and bringing it to the Supreme Court, and then over 100 Republican members of Congress signing on in support of it. You know, the fact of the matter is, it was a political stunt. And you can just -- if you want to know whether there's any evidence of that, look how long it took the Supreme Court to throw it out. It barely hit the desk before they said it wasn't a serious undertaking.

That sort of thing really undermines faith in democracy. It feeds on the belief that somehow this election was not valid or honest. We know it was.

Joe Biden is going to be president sworn in on January 20 of next year. And Kamala Harris is going to be the vice president.

BLITZER: Yes, in what, 34 days from now.

Senator Dick Durbin, thank you so much for joining us. I will stay in close touch with you.

DURBIN: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, we'll have more in this hour's breaking news, an FDA advisory panel now recommending authorization of a second, a second coronavirus vaccine. We'll discuss the vaccines, the ongoing coronavirus crisis with the director of the National Institutes of Health, there he is, Dr. Francis Collins. He's standing by live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The breaking news this hour, an FDA advisory panel has just voted to recommend the Moderna coronavirus vaccine for emergency use authorization here in the United States. It now joins the Pfizer vaccine which the panel recommended exactly one week ago and is now being administered to some healthcare workers and residents of long- term care facilities.

Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back with us. We're also joined by Dr. Francis Collins, the Director of the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Collins, thank you so much for joining us. The NIH clearly played a major role in developing the Moderna vaccine. How does it feel to see the country take a major step like this toward having not one but two vaccines against this deadly virus?

[17:35:18]

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH: Well, it's an amazing testimony to the incredible science that has been carried forward by teams of people at NIH, in industry, academic scientists, all working together, not worrying too much about who got the credit, pulling out all the stops, figuring out how to get rid of some of the dead time that often vexes these kinds of developments and doing in 11 months what normally it takes about 10 years.

So yes, today's vote 20 to nothing with one abstention favoring emergency use authorization. FDA will take that recommendation and decide probably very soon what to do with it. And I think we all expect them to say yes. And so, we may have more vaccine doses from Moderna, going into people's arms next week.

BLITZER: Next week. So, you think, when you say very soon, you see the first vaccination for the new Moderna vaccine coming as early as next week, early next week, maybe?

COLLINS: I think that's entirely possible. Again, Operation Warp Speed has been planning all along, that if a vaccine got approved by this very public approach that FDA is taking, that they would have doses ready to go and a plan about how to distribute them. So, there wouldn't be a long lag time while people were waiting. You saw that happened last weekend with Pfizer. I think you're going to see something pretty similar here in the next few days with Moderna.

BLITZER: That's so encouraging. Dr. Collins, Sanjay has a couple of questions for you. Sanjay, go ahead.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Dr. Collins, congratulation, big day, no doubt. I have a bit of a nuance I think important question. We talked about herd immunity, you get enough people protected in the country, the virus has a hard time finding a home because people are protected.

At the same time, we hear that these vaccines may prevent illness and do a good job of that but don't necessarily prevent infection. Will these vaccines actually get us to herd immunity? Or they just making it less likely we will get sick?

COLLINS: That's a really good question. And I knew you would ask one, Sanjay. I guess I was a good Professor when you were my student. So yes, this is something we need to get an answer to. And there is a trial getting designed right now about how we will assess whether the vaccines actually prevent people from having any vaccine, any virus in their airway, because you want to know that and could you still be contagious, even though the vaccine has kept you from getting sick?

We don't think that's likely to be a big deal. But you got to have the data to find out, so that is the next phase here and sorting this question out.

GUPTA: If I can ask you one more question. I want to show you some data from these, the polling that took place in my hospital Grady Hospital, looking at vaccine hesitancy. And this is among healthcare workers. If we have the graphic, we can put it up. But basically Dr. Collins, they asked healthcare workers about their likelihood of getting a vaccine, about a third, 35 percent said they would, a third said that they wanted to get more information, and a third said that they would not get the vaccine.

Dr. Collins, this is among healthcare workers. I was surprised by that. I'm just curious, what do you think when you hear about healthcare workers having this degree of hesitancy still?

COLLINS: I'm really disturbed by these kinds of poll results. And it's not just Grady. I've seen them from others that are asking about healthcare workers willingness to roll up their sleeves. I think there has been so much noise this year about all of this, a concern that maybe the whole thing is being rushed, that's being politically driven, that even people in the healthcare industry who are watching that terrible tragedies that this virus is causing are having misgivings.

We need to really try to get the word out about what the facts are. Hey, I'm a physician, I'm a scientist, I run the NIH. I've had the chance to be intimately involved in every step of the way here in the development of these vaccines. There have been no shortcuts taken. There's no hidden information. There's no chips from Bill Gates going into the syringes, all the crazy stuff that you read in social media.

But people have been getting barraged by all kinds of crazy information. We've got a really important task right now to try to get that straightened out. I understand CNN may be taking a crack at that tomorrow night with a town hall and good for you trying to get the facts out there. And encourage people, especially those who are really skeptical that this is something you want to do for yourself, for your family, for the future of our nation, because if we don't get to that point of 70 to 80 percent of Americans being immunized, this could go on and on and on and we could lose even more lives and that would be the worst possible kind of tragedy.

BLITZER: Yes. And, you know, it's so true, Dr. Collins, despite this hope with the Moderna vaccine, the Pfizer vaccine. The scale of the crisis right now, right now here in the United States can't be overstated.

[17:40:10]

The U.S. broke all the records just yesterday, number of cases, number of hospitalizations. Sadly, almost 4,000 Americans died just yesterday that's reported from the Johns Hopkins University, 3,656 American deaths just yesterday. So, Dr. Collins, how do you make Americans understand the danger of this situation, even as we're hopeful about these vaccines?

COLLINS: Well, let me give it a chance since you've given me a chance, let me plead with Americans. Whatever you have come to, as far as a conclusion about your own ability to turn this around, just set it aside. And let me talk to you for a minute here.

We know that these masks that we are all being asked to wear. They're not political statements, they are lifesaving medical devices, if we would all right today, decided to set aside all of those arguments about politics and invasions of your freedom and everything else and simply say, I'm going to wear this when I am outside of my home, I'm going to avoid gathering indoors with other people, especially if they don't have masks on, I'm going to be part of the solution to protect myself, but also to protect my neighbors, my grandparents, all of those vulnerable folks who are still out there and could still be the next casualties.

We could have a chance to turn this around in the course of the next few months while we're waiting for the vaccines to kick in. But you don't want to just say oh, well, we're almost there because we're not. We have another couple of dark months ahead of us, if we don't do something at this point, to try to stop this dreadful upward curve of hospitalizations and cases and deaths. And we could do some much better than that.

But this is not the moment to be throwing down your guard and gathering for the holidays like nothing was happening. We have a lot of trouble here in front of us. And let me just say, if you doubt that the vaccines are going to help you coming back to that, look at the data. It's all public. And let me also say, look at those 30,000 people from Moderna who volunteered, they are some of our heroes too. And they came through this.

And I think if you talk to any one of them, they're glad they did. And they may have gotten benefit, or they may have just been part of getting an answer to this. And we should be saying thank to them right now, too.

BLITZER: Yes, certainly. Sanjay, go ahead. I know you have another question.

GUPTA: Yes. Dr. Collins, I'm just curious. So, we hear that a pandemic like this is likely to happen again at some point, we don't know when. But the information that we get is that this type of virus may once again cause a pandemic. Well, at the NIH, from an NIH's perspective, what have we learned do you think that will better prepare us for the next time around, which sounds inevitable? COLLINS: Well recognize that we actually built this time on 25 years of understanding how messenger RNA might be used as a vaccine, we learned a lot about how that worked. And we'll be ready for the next one using that approach in a way that's going to be faster even that we did this time.

We also learned going through this one how critical it is to have everything ready, to set up clinical trials, to be able to prioritize which kind of vaccines and which kind of therapeutics need to go into those, how to work together between the academic and the government and private sectors. We can continue that knowledge now that we are maybe going to see this one goes into the rearview mirror, but there's probably another one coming. There's a lot of lessons we could learn there and there ought to be a deep think about that before we slip back into anything like complacency.

BLITZER: Dr. Collins, thank you so much for everything you're doing in NIH. We are grateful to you. Sanjay, of course, we're grateful to you as well. We're going to stay on top of the breaking news. Appreciate it very much.

[17:43:54]

There's other news we're following right now as well. Joe Biden makes more barrier breaking choices for his incoming Cabinet. But will he -- who will choose to be the next Attorney General of the United States. We have some new information, some new hints about possible finalists, and they are intriguing. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There's breaking news in the Biden transition as the President-elect makes more historic choices for his top posts in his incoming administration. Let's go to our political correspondent MJ Lee. She's standing by. MJ, CNN is learning more about expected Cabinet picks as well as some major announcements still to come.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. The Biden administration continues to take shape. And there are two expected appointments that we can report on tonight. The first is Congresswoman Deb Haaland, she is expected to be tapped to be Biden's Interior Secretary. And if she is confirmed, she would be the first Native American to have this position as well as the first Native American to serve as Cabinet secretary.

There would be interesting political ramifications as well. If she is confirmed that would further narrow the House Democrats majority in the lower chamber. And then the second person here is Michael Regan. He is expected to be tapped to head the EPA. He is currently the head of the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality. We are told that it is seen as a big asset that he has this kind of state level experience in addition to having served in the federal government as well.

Now there is one very big position that Biden still has not made an announcement on and that is of course Attorney General. And what we can report right now is that the top two countries remain Senator Doug Jones and Judge Merrick Garland.

[17:50:03]

Now there are some competing forces at play here as they try to figure out which person to appoint to A.G., for example, does he want to choose someone who is seen as being politically impartial? Or does he go with someone who is actually closer to Biden and has a very strong civil rights background like Senator Jones?

There's obviously a lot of pressure to for there to be racial diversity in the top ranks of the DOJ. And also, Wolf, looming over all of this is the federal investigation into Hunter Biden, Joe Biden son. So a lot of competing factors, but again, just important to stress -- that stress that this is one of the most important and high profile Cabinet positions that Biden's still has not made an announcement on.

BLITZER: We anticipate that will happen in the days to come. All right, MJ, thank you very much.

There's more now the breaking news this hour, an FDA advisory panel voting moments ago to recommend emergency use authorization for the Moderna coronavirus vaccine. I want to bring in CNN's Brian Todd. Brian, you've been looking at the similarities and the differences between the Moderna vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine, which the same panel recommended exactly a week ago. What did you find out?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf, we've been speaking to some of the most respected vaccine experts in the world. Here's what you need to know regarding the key similarities and differences between the two vaccines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): This frontline caregiver in Fort Lauderdale, so energized from his Pfizer coronavirus vaccine, he jumps up on his chair. At Jackson Health in Miami, another doctor just vaccinated says it's an amazing moment in the fight against coronavirus.

DR. DAVID DE LA ZERDA, JACKSON MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: It's really a big day to begin a day.

TODD (voice-over): As America awaits, a second delivery of a vaccine from Moderna, a key question tonight between the Moderna and Pfizer- BioNTech vaccines is one better than the other?

DR. MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: No, frankly, they have very similar data. I find that scientifically extremely convincing that two products using similar technology but totally independently developed, independently tested providers with data that are so similar.

TODD (voice-over): Experts say the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have shown almost identical levels of effectiveness, close to 95 percent. The most important difference between the two, Pfizer's vaccine needs to be kept in specially built ultra-cold freezers and has to be kept at temperatures close to 100 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. Moderna's vaccine can be kept in a freezer like the one in your kitchen at four degrees below zero.

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNAL MEDICINE AND VIRAL SPECIALIST: Which means that A, it is much easier to distribute in different trucks and then secondly, it can now be kept in pharmacies. It can now be kept at almost any hospital. So, the Moderna vaccine definitely has an advantage in being much more easily distributable throughout the United States.

TODD (voice-over): Pfizer's vaccine can be kept in a refrigerator only up to five days before it expires. Moderna's can be kept in a refrigerator for 30 days before it expires. In both Britain and the U.S., a very small number of recipients experienced allergic reactions to the Pfizer vaccine. Experts say that could also happen with the Moderna vaccine. Are there differences between them and side effects?

DR. WILLIAM MOSS, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, JOHNS HOPKINS BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Soreness at the site of injection, some people will have muscle aches, some joint pains, fatigue, headaches, and fever. Both of these types of reactions are very similar between the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

TODD (voice-over): Another key question, will any of us have a say in which vaccine we get?

MOSS: I think early on people will probably not be able to choose whether the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccine, I think that's going to be driven by availability.

TODD (voice-over): But by the middle of next year, or by the third quarter, Dr. William Moss says people may have a choice. Still every expert we've spoken to says take which one is available to you because it really may not matter which one you choose.

RODRIGUEZ: Seriously, both vaccines are equally as effective, equally as safe. It's only the matter of distribution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Another interesting difference between the two companies, Pfizer has been producing vaccines commercially for more than 100 years. Moderna has never brought a product to market until now. But one vaccine expert told us that doesn't make any difference either. Moderna, he says has been working on that messenger RNA technology which both companies are using for more than a decade. And Moderna, he says has teamed up with the National Institutes of Health to produce this, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you very much.

[17:54:29]

The breaking news continues right here in the Situation Room. I'll speak live to two doctors on the FDA advisory panel who just voted to recommend the Moderna coronavirus vaccine for emergency use authorization, much more and all the breaking news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room. We're following breaking news on another breakthrough moment in the coronavirus crisis.

[18:00:00]

A key FDA advisory panel just voted to recommend emergency use authorization for a second COVID-19 vaccine here in the United States.