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Heated Oval Office Meeting Included Talk Of Martial Law; Donald Trump Refuses To Condemn Russia In First Comment After Cyber Attack; Interview With Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ) And Rep. Tom Reed (R-NY); Pompeo On Massive Hack: We Can Say Pretty Clearly It Was The Russians That Engaged In This Activity; U.K. Imposes Lockdown Again As New COVID-19 Strain Spreads Faster. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 19, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:26]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a Special Edition of THE SITUATION ROOM, and we start with breaking news tonight.

A C.D.C. advisory committee has just recommended Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine for people 18 years old and older. This is the second vaccine for the coronavirus that has been approved for use here in the United States. Pfizer was the first.

The C.D.C. Director is expected to give the final green light at any moment now. The Chief Operating Officer for Operation Warp Speed says distribution could start as soon as tomorrow.

This, as the country continues to see very, very worrying surges of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths across the United States that in some states are pushing hospitals to their breaking point.

COVID hospitalizations in California, for example, are at an all-time high right now, with some ICUs reporting they are completely out of space.

And there's more worrying news out of the U.K. right now where a new and more contagious strain of the virus has just emerged forcing Prime Minister Boris Johnson to put some parts of the U.K. back under lockdown.

We're following critical negotiations at the same time underway right now over the next round of relief for millions and millions of suffering Americans. But there are still some key divisions that remain.

Then there's also other breaking news we are following right now, and it involves chaos -- chaos inside the Trump White House as we speak.

This time, it comes right from the Oval Office after truly stunning suggestions about overturning the presidential election, which has now been officially been approved by the Electoral College. Those conversations turned into very heated moments with President Trump.

Let's go to Jeremy Diamond over at the White House. Jeremy, it's hard to believe what we are learning now with only 32 days to go before the inauguration.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, and what we are learning is that President Trump is not just publicly continuing to contest the results of the election that he lost to Joe Biden, but he is also privately grasping at straws looking for ways to overturn the results of this election and considering one outlandish idea after the next.

We are told by sources familiar with the matter that the President had an Oval Office meeting just yesterday with some key advisers, including Sidney Powell, that attorney who has floated those debunked outlandish conspiracy theories about the 2020 election, including suggesting that the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez was behind rigging this election. Those conspiracy theories have, of course, been debunked.

And Michael Flynn, the President's former National Security adviser who pleaded guilty to accounts of lying to the F.B.I., but was ultimately pardoned by President Trump, they were both in the Oval Office.

And the President, we are told was discussing the possibility of naming Sidney Powell as a special counsel of sorts to investigate allegations of voter fraud in the 2020 election. And the President also apparently raised this idea floated previously this week by Michael Flynn, about using Martial Law in the United States to rerun the 2020 election.

Listen to what Michael Flynn was talking about here just a few days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN (RET), U.S. ARMY: He could honor the -- within the swing states, if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities and he could place them in those states and basically rerun an election in each of those states.

I mean, it's not unprecedented. I mean, there are people out there talking about Martial Law. It's like it's something that we've never done, we've done -- Martial Law has been instituted 64 -- sixty four times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, to be clear, Wolf, there is no indication that martial law is going to be imposed by the President. The military has made very, very clear that they will have no role and involvement in contesting the results of this democratic election.

But it is nonetheless remarkable to hear that this was being discussed in the Oval Office. We are told, however, that this idea was shut down by other White House officials.

Among those pushing back on some of these more outlandish ideas we are told were the White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and the White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows.

In fact, they were contesting these ideas so much to the point that the meeting grew ugly according to one source who spoke with CNN. This meeting grew heated. There were shouting matches at points during this meeting.

And Sidney Powell apparently accused some of those White House officials of not acting forcefully enough to overturn the results of the 2020 election, but Wolf, this is just remarkable stuff.

You know, we sometimes get numb to some of these things that we hear out of the White House these, outlandish things that the President is considering. But this certainly hits the top of the list as we consider the fact that this is the President of the United States looking for ways to overturn the results of a democratic election.

[18:05:20]

DIAMOND: And one more note, Wolf, I had a source tell me earlier this week that the President has even floated the idea of not leaving the White House come Inauguration Day. That source told me that this was as the President was in his more dark and depressed moods about this election.

They didn't think that the President would ultimately do it, but again, it just seems like the President is looking for one way or the other to try and remain in power.

BLITZER: It's hard to believe what's going on right now, really hard to believe, 32 days until he is the out -- the former President of the United States, Joe Biden will be the President of the United States, despite what he is plotting what he is trying to do right now.

And if that were not enough, Jeremy, we have the President also now finally speaking out about the massive cyberattack on the U.S. government and various Fortune 500 companies here in the U.S., but the President is actually contradicting his own Secretary of State, top U.S. Intelligence officials, the chairman -- the acting Chairman, I should say of this Senate Intelligence Committee, Marco Rubio. Tell us what's going on here.

DIAMOND: That's right, Wolf, even as the President is hyping up these claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election, the notion of widespread voter fraud is of course, been repeatedly debunked.

He is downplaying something very serious and very real that has happened in the United States and that is the cyberattack that U.S. government officials increasingly believe was carried out by Russia, the President taking to Twitter this morning for his first public reaction to this massive cyberattack on U.S. government agencies, saying, quote, "The cyber hack is far greater in the fake news media than in actuality. I've been fully briefed and everything is well under control."

He then goes on to say, "Russia, Russia, Russia is the priority chant when anything happens, but lame-stream is for mostly financial reasons petrified of discussing the possibility that it may be China."

Of course, U.S. government officials have made very clear that all indications are that Russia was indeed behind this hack. In fact, so much to the point that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo just yesterday, he said that it's very clear at this point that Russia was indeed behind this attack.

And in fact, we are told, Wolf, that White House officials were drafting a statement just yesterday and preparing to release it, attributing this attack to Russia.

That statement, though, was scrapped, and now you see what the President of the United States is tweeting. It's going to be very hard for U.S. intelligence and government officials to square the official conclusions with what the President of the United States is now tweeting out.

BLITZER: Yes, and he slaps his own Secretary of State Mike Pompeo who has been so loyal to him over these years, and he publicly -- I mean, for all practical purposes -- ridicules him -- by Pompeo, saying it was Russia and the President saying maybe China, ridiculing this notion that Russia was involved.

Jeremy, I know you're working your sources. We're going to get back to you.

I want to go over to Capitol Hill right now. Our senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju is following the latest critically important relief talks that are underway that will impact millions and millions of Americans who are struggling to put food on the table and pay the rent.

Manu, what is going on? Where do things stand right now?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, congressional leaders are struggling to close out this deal, Wolf, and in large part, there is one provision that is dividing the two sides. It is about whether or not to rein in the Federal Reserve's authority, emergency lending authority that was created by the March stimulus law, that emergency authority, Republicans believe should essentially be wound down and should end.

They believe that it should be restricted and concerned that if it continues, that the new administration could use it, in their view, as a slush fund of sorts. Democrats, however, believe what the Republicans are pushing would constrain the Biden administration's ability to respond to this economic crisis over days.

They've been going back and forth over this provision, which is initially authored by Senator Pat Toomey, a Republican of Pennsylvania and Toomey is now in the center of discussions with the Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer to try to cut a deal on this key issue.

The belief is if they can find a way forward on this, then the overall package, $900 billion relief package could advance. Now, there are still a lot of questions about whether or not the bill could move as quickly as a lot of people hope and whether it can get passed by Sunday night, which is the new deadline.

It would require a lot of cooperation on both sides of the aisle, particularly the United States Senate where any one individual senator could delay a final vote, and it certainly could happen given how high the stakes on this bill, how many people are pushing for things that ultimately will not get in there.

And the fact that virtually no one has seen any details of this because the negotiations are among a small group of members, but it appears very unlikely a deal will be reached tonight.

That means negotiations will continue probably through the night tonight into tomorrow and they're going to try to see if they can bring a bill to the House floor as soon as tomorrow afternoon.

We'll see if they are able to get it by tomorrow night because there's a critical deadline at 11:59 tomorrow night when government funding runs out.

These two issues now tied together because Democrats and Republicans want to tie this COVID relief package to a bill to keep the government open past tomorrow.

But if they don't get a deal on the COVID plan, we will once again be facing a government shutdown threat by tomorrow night.

[18:10:27]

RAJU: But so many people, Wolf, as you mentioned, are waiting because unemployment benefits are drying up. This bill would extend unemployment checks as well as provide direct payments, one time payments of $600.00 for individuals under a certain income threshold, as well as small business loans to the tune of roughly $330 billion and $80 billion for schools so, so much is in this proposal. Can they get there and how quickly can they get it done -- still remain the big questions -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, I know you're working your sources as well up on Capitol Hill. We'll get back to you, Manu. Thank you very much.

I want to bring in the two co-chairs of the House Problem Solvers Caucus: Republican Congressman Tom Reed of New York and Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us, and I want to get to the critical talks over desperately needed COVID relief funds for the American people.

But let me get your quick reaction to this latest extremely disturbing news, which you just heard from our Jeremy Diamond over at the White House.

Congressman Gottheimer, what do you think when the President of the United States is raising all these absurd possibilities of trying to overturn an election that the Electoral College has already certified and ratified and approved even talking about the possibility of raising -- the possibility of not leaving the White House on January 20th? When you hear this kind of stuff, Congressman, what goes through your mind?

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Well, I think you just said it best. The Electoral College has certified the results. The court -- the Supreme Court has spoken, lower courts have spoken.

We have huge challenges facing our country right now with the spike in the pandemic, and of course, the hacks from Russia. We have a lot to focus on.

President-elect Joe Biden will be sworn in on January 20th, just days from now and that's what we should focus on, getting there, getting this relief out the door. And to me, that's what I would hope the President and everyone in this country and Washington is focused on, getting this deal done to help the country.

BLITZER: Yes, 32 days from now. Congressman Reed, what's your reaction?

REP. TOM REED (R-NY): Well, Wolf, obviously, I think, Wolf, first of all, there's many Americans, millions of Americans that are disappointed like myself that President Trump didn't win this election on Election Day and there are serious concerns about fraud.

But now we are talking about the transition of power, and I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. I think we need to recognize what's made our country strong for 200-plus years and have been a beacon of peaceful transition of power across the globe, is that we go through this process and elections is where we resolve our disputes.

So when you hear rhetoric like that, and I wasn't there, I don't know the details. But if there is rhetoric like that, we need to keep the big picture of America's stability in focus. And I would be on the camp, let us take a deep breath and go forward with the transition of power like we've had for a couple of a hundred years here.

BLITZER: Yes, and let Joe Biden become President, he was elected. But he got more than seven million more votes in the popular national vote than Trump did and he easily won the Electoral College as well.

All right, let's get to the subject I really wanted both of you to discuss tonight. What's going on with this really dramatically needed economic stimulus package for millions of Americans. Congressman Gottheimer, what's the latest? Why is this taking so long? This should have been done a long time ago.

Millions of Americans are suffering, especially now only days away from Christmas. They're worried they're going to be kicked out of their own homes and won't be able to feed their kids the day after Christmas.

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, it's absurd. We've got a few Scrooges who are trying to steal Christmas at the end here, Wolf, then we're obviously going to stop them get this deal done.

You know, we're in spitting distance, and we're hearing, you know, I'm optimistic that this is going to get done and agreed to sometime tomorrow.

We'll vote on it either tomorrow in the House or possibly the next day. But the bottom line is, as you just said, Wolf, people are hurting in our country. We need to get vaccines out. We need to help people who are in food lines for the very first time.

People on December 26th will lose their unemployment and their rental assistance and people will be evicted from their homes. We've got so many small businesses that are suffering, 30 percent in my state in New Jersey have already gone out.

We know that one in 500 people have lost their lives in New Jersey from the pandemic. This cannot wait an hour longer, which is why we've been working, Tom Reed and I and the Problem Solvers Caucus along with our Senate colleagues in a bipartisan way to get this done, working for months, and I'm optimistic it's going to get done right away.

BLITZER: What about you, Congressman Reed, because if you look at the numbers, just last week, one week -- in one week, almost 900,000 Americans lost their jobs, largely because of the COVID pandemic, 900,000 Americans lost their jobs. They've applied for first time unemployment benefits according to the U.S. Department of Labor, and what -- about eight million or 10 million Americans over these past several months have now gone into poverty.

What's your assessment? When is this legislation going to be passed, signed into law by the President?

[18:15:18]

REED: Well, I will tell you, the Intel that, you know, Josh and I -- Josh Gottheimer there with us at the Problem Solvers Caucus, we have been working tirelessly on this for months now, and in particular, with our bipartisan, bicameral group in the Senate, the Gang of Eight there.

And I will tell you, the Intel we have is we're down to this one last issue, it appears with the Federal Reserve that was reported on by a great reporter there on Capitol Hill. And I think that's resolvable because I think everyone recognizes, we've made a commitment, we are not leaving Washington, D.C. without answering the call of the American people.

It is time to stand down and do the work of the people rather than having everyone on their special interest, their little pieces of the puzzle that feel that they're going to be hurt if this goes into law, fight this deal. And the deal is being done for the American people, and I believe

we're ready to get this through the House, hopefully, tomorrow. And once this final Federal Reserve archaic in the weeds detail issue. It's an important issue. It deals with the structure of the Federal Reserve, and it needs to be dealt with, but I am confident, good men and good women of good faith hearts can solve this problem, and they're working on it, and they'll get it done and we'll get this to the American people here, hopefully, starting in the House tomorrow.

BLITZER: Well, I hope -- I hope it happens. Congressman Gottheimer, so how are they going to -- what are they going to do about this one issue involving the Federal Reserve?

Some Republican senators have been pushing it, supposedly to tie the hands of the incoming Biden administration, they won't have this issue. They won't have this policy that's been around for a long time to deal with, removes some flexibility for them in dealing with potential economic recessions. What do you think?

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, it's a red herring thrown in the last minute to try to jam things up. This is about getting emergency short term pandemic relief out to people, Wolf, and to helping people at a time of great need, as we're approaching Christmas here.

And as you said, people will be hungry. We need to get direct payments out to people. We need to help our small businesses, our families and our communities that are in real trouble.

So the idea that we would have somebody throw, you know, a wrench in here to try to stop it is absurd. I think we're -- my understanding is they're working through it. They have found the compromise to deal with that issue, and we can get back to doing what we need to do, which is getting this passed.

You know, we've been -- Wolf, I've talked about this so many times. I've been working on this for months. It's so frustrating, and you know, people are hurting, and the idea that anybody would delay relief to families right now with the cases spiking, you know, 310,000 people or more have lost their lives in our country, you know, this a whole gut wrenching moment in our country.

And those who try to throw in other of these last minute things, you know, should be ashamed of themselves.

BLITZER: They should be ashamed of themselves. It is hard to believe this is going on right here in the richest country in the world, the United States of America, and they're haggling over ridiculous things that they are preventing the desperately needed funds to help these people who are in desperate need.

Congressman Gottheimer and Congressman Reed, I know both of you are working very hard to get this done. Thanks for the bipartisanship. Thanks for joining us.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks, Wolf.

REED: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. We're awaiting the final sign off for the Moderna coronavirus vaccine from the C.D.C. Director, Dr. Robert Redfield. That is expected any moment now. We'll bring it to you.

Also, this hour, after a key recommendation from the C.D.C. advisory committee today, so what a second vaccine means for the fight against the virus?

We have new information. We'll share it with you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:22:48]

BLITZER: Just hours ago, a second coronavirus vaccine, this one from Moderna got a critical recommendation from the C.D.C. Vaccine Advisory Panel.

Last night the vaccine was issued Emergency Use Authorization from the F.D.A., the second EUA -- Emergency Use Authorization -- the agency has granted this month. The first one was for Pfizer. And it all means that Americans could begin getting both vaccines early next week. They are already receiving the Pfizer vaccine.

Joining us now Dr. James Phillips. He is Chief of Disaster Medicine at the George Washington University Hospital here in the nation's capital and Dr. Celine Gounder. She's a member of the Biden COVID-19 Advisory Board.

Thanks, Doctors, to both of you for joining us. Dr. Gounder. What's your reaction to this news? What is the addition of a second approved vaccine for use here in the United States mean in this fight against this very deadly virus?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN CORONAVIRUS ADVISORY BOARD: Wolf, the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are based essentially on the same vaccine technology, the same design, but there is one critical difference, which is that the Pfizer vaccine requires freezing -- these really deep frozen temperatures, minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit, while the Moderna vaccine can be stored in just a regular freezer.

And so that makes a big difference in terms of what facilities can handle that vaccine. The Moderna vaccine is going to be a lot easier to distribute to rural areas and to doctors' offices. And so this really does give us another tool -- effective tool against the virus.

BLITZER: These two vaccines, Dr. Phillips, you know, are for adults really. One, if you're 16 and older; one, if you're 18 and older, but what about children? When do you think they're going to be able to start getting a vaccine because they're going to start getting data, I assume for 12 year olds up to 16 or 18 year olds sometime in 2021.

DR. JAMES PHILLIPS, CHIEF OF DISASTER MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: That's right, Wolf. So Moderna has some data in younger folks, 16 and older, but we don't have any data yet on children, school-age children that, you know as a father, I know you're a father, too, we think about that in two terms.

One, we want our children to be safe and two, we also recognize the importance of school and childcare when it comes to reopening businesses and the economy in general.

[18:25:10]

PHILLIPS: And so for a couple of reasons, I think we are in good shape. The first one is, our kids are not dying at the same rate that adults are. We are very lucky, amongst a lot of bad luck with this virus that our children aren't being affected as much as we are.

And so there is cause that we are able to be able to delay this with some less concern than we might otherwise. So if we have to wait a while for kids, I think that's probably okay.

The data is necessary, though, because we don't have the safety and efficacy yet that we need for children, but that will come.

BLITZER: I assume it will come up relatively soon, fairly soon. Dr. Gounder, there were some unwelcome news out of the U.K. today, the Prime Minister Boris Johnson announcing new coronavirus restrictions as scientists over there in the U.K. say they've detected what they described as a new strain of the virus that is up to potentially 70 percent more transmissible. So what does that mean?

GOUNDER: Well, as sure as the sun rises and sets, viruses spread and they mutate. That is what viruses do. So this is not surprising that there have been mutations in the virus. It is unclear if this really is a more transmissible virus. But we know based on people's behaviors, their movement patterns and so on, that, unfortunately, public health guidance has not been followed stringently enough to prevent transmission.

And so what we're really seeing in the U.K. is a pandemic -- epidemic that's out of control, spread that's out of control and the need for more stringent adherence with public health recommendations.

You know, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that this virus has convincingly mutated in a way that's made it more transmissible. I think there's still research that needs to be done on that front, and time will tell.

But I think big picture, the real question is, will the virus mutate -- and it is mutating in a way that will matter from a perspective of vaccination. We do not think this is a virus that mutates like the flu, and so any vaccination that you receive now will still likely be good for at least a couple of years, and perhaps beyond that.

BLITZER: Let's hope that's true. You know, Dr. Phillips, we're seeing the results right now. They are awful results here in the United States, so Thanksgiving playing out in hospitals across the country, record hospitalizations, record numbers of cases, record numbers of deaths on a daily basis. What are your concerns as we approach Christmas, Kwanzaa, New Year's

right now?

PHILLIPS: Well, I think the short term future is bleak. We take a look at what's happening in Southern California where there's reports of a zero percent ICU capacity available. What that means is hospitals there and in similar situations across the country, are going to be having to convert regular hospital beds into ICU beds.

Now, while that's possible, staffing is a major issue. There are hospitals across the country that are desperate for nursing help, and desperate for nursing help means that you're not going to get the people to staff those beds, so you can convert them, but there's no one to take care of the patients in them. When that happens, care suffers.

And as we are right now this week, starting to see that spike in hospitalizations that are a result of travel during Thanksgiving. Just imagine what Southern California is feeling right now with zero percent ICU capacity, staring down three weeks from now, four weeks from now when the Christmas surge hits in mid-January.

And I think it's important that people that are reluctant to stay home because of COVID because they think it's a hoax or they don't believe the science, they need to remember that people don't just end up in the ICU because of COVID.

If you have a heart attack, you have a trauma, you have some other medical condition that flares up, you need an ICU bed. You won't have it because we will be rationing care.

So please stay home because this is only going to get worse across the rest of the country over the next month.

BLITZER: Dr. Phillips, as usual. Thanks so much for joining us. Dr. Gounder, of course, thanks to you as well. Good luck. I know you're working on that Biden Advisory Council as far as COVID is concerned. Thanks to both of you for what you're doing.

An important note to our viewers. Join Anderson Cooper to learn how the country defeated the 1918 pandemic. The new CNN special report "Pandemic: How a Virus Changed the World in 1918." That begins at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right after our special SITUATION ROOM.

Now we have much more and all the breaking news unfolding this hour. New details emerging right now of a very heated Oval Office meeting over at the White House on Friday, where Trump allies actually floated -- believe it or not -- floated the idea of enacting martial law here in the United States as a way to try to overturn the democratically held presidential election.

We have details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:34:29] BLITZER: The breaking news this Saturday night off from the White

House, a truly explosive meeting in the Oval Office. Truly outlandish ideas brought to the President of the United States to try to overturn the election that now has been officially certified by all 50 states and the District of Columbia as well as the Electoral College.

I want to bring in our Political Commentator, Michael Smerconish. He's the host of SMERCONISH, which you can watch every Saturday morning 9 a.m. Eastern here on CNN. I'm a regular viewer myself.

Michael, when you hear about martial law being discussed the Oval Office merely to defy the will of the majority of American voters what goes through your mind?

[18:35:07]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: It's scary. And I also think that maybe I've misjudged the situation, Wolf, because as I've noted with you on prior Saturday nights, the goalposts keep shifting. It was Election Day, November 3rd. Then we talked about the Electoral College on December 14. Now, the Trump focus has shifted to the congressional actions on January the 6th.

And I have believed that it's all a cash grab. And then on January 6th, there'll be something else that will enable the President to continue to fundraise all the way until January 20th. After all, he's raised more than $200 million since Election Day, $66 plus million for the Save America PAC.

I thought it was all about funding him for 2024 should he seek to run again. Now, I'm starting to think he really believes this. I mean, if these are the type of conversations that he's willing to entertain in the Oval Office, he must really buy into the idea that this thing was stolen, despite the complete lack of evidence. And the question that I'm wondering is, how far must it go before the base abandons him?

BLITZER: That's a great question. And you're right, it is very, very disturbing. And like you, I always assume it was money, money, money, money. He was trying to raise money. He's already raised more than 200 million. He'll probably raise another hundred million before he leaves office on January 20th. He'll have that for four years to spend in all sorts of ways. But you're right, this is so disturbing.

On top of that, Michael, we have the President today seemingly rejecting the words of his own Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on a major cyber attack against the United States. The President suggesting, well, maybe it was China, why you guys always saying Russia, Russia, Russia. Listen to what the Secretary of State said in his own words on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There was a significant effort to use a piece of third-party software to essentially embed code inside of U.S. government systems and, it now appears, the systems of private companies and governments across the world, as well this was a very significant effort. And I think it's the case that now we can say pretty clearly that it was the Russians that engaged in this activity."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So he's a very, very clear. Why would the President of the United States contradict one of his most loyal advisors, Mike Pompeo? Why would he suggest that it may have been China? And why is the President always refusing to say anything critical about Putin and Russia?

SMERCONISH: I heard Chris Coons, Sen. Coons equate this with an act of war. I heard Sen. Romney say that this is the equivalent of a spy aircraft flown by Russia across the United States doing reconnaissance. So it's egregious and accepted by all except the President, here comes my cynicism. It has to be because he holds a debt of gratitude to Vladimir Putin for the efforts that Putin played in the 2016 election. There's just no other explanation.

There have been countless instances all during the course of this administration, where it was obvious that Russia needed to be reprimanded. And Wolf, I can't think of a single instance, where the President has risen to that challenge.

BLITZER: And it's interesting, Marco Rubio, the Senator from Florida, he's the Acting Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. A member of the so-called Gang of Eight, which is privy to the most sensitive information, tweeted after the President's remarks about China doing it not necessarily Russia, increasingly clear that Russian intelligence conducted the greatest cyber intrusion in our history.

The process of determining its extent and assessing the damage is underway. Remediation will take time and significant resources, our response must be proportional, but significant.

It's hard to believe the President would contradict Marco Rubio who's been very loyal to him, as we all know, and the Secretary of State. But unfortunately, that's what's going on right now and you make some good points. Michael Smerconish, as usual, thanks for joining us.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just 32 days remaining for the Trump administration and new details are emerging right now about the requests for pardons flooding into the White House. But will the President actually go ahead and pardon himself? We'll discuss when we come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:43:36]

BLITZER: Thirty-two days remain in the Trump administration and this week we learned his West Wing staff has actually been so deluged with pardoned requests. They had to build a spreadsheet to keep track but the most anticipation surrounds around this question, will President Trump try to pardon himself. Former U.S. Attorney and CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Preet Bharara, is

joining us right now.

Preet, thanks as usual. There's nothing in the constitution that says a president can pardon himself or herself for that matter, but there's nothing that says he can't. What do you think will happen if this president were to pardon himself?

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Among other things, you and I will talk about it. Lots of experts will talk about it. And the vast, vast majority maybe even close to unanimous contingent of legal experts would say and lawyers would say that you can't pardon yourself.

The Office of Legal Counsel has made it clear in a not very extensive opinion, but made it clear that you can't pardon yourself. That the text structure tradition of the Constitution makes it clear you can pardon yourself and in the works the basic and fundamental unfairness in the system if you can be the judge in your own case.

Notwithstanding that, as we may discuss and as you've been discussing on the show, the President is having conversations about the insurrection act and martial law with the previously guilty pleading National Security Adviser, Michael Flynn.

[18:44:57]

So if he's talking about those kinds of things in a serious way in the actual Oval Office, I think there's a reasonable chance he will try to submit a piece of paper or have a piece of paper drawn up that serves as self-pardon. What will happen?

Not a lot other than talk until there comes a time and it may never come such a time, but a time where a prosecutor's office in the federal system, the Department of Justice, decides to file a criminal charge. Then you will litigate this question of whether or not that pardon that he issued for himself is legitimate, valid and provides, an actual defense. But until then, I think it's just a lot of talk.

BLITZER: And even if he were to pardon himself, and even if it were approved, it doesn't prevent a state attorney and just district attorney in Manhattan, for example, or an Attorney General in New York State or other states from going ahead and filing charges. Those would not be impacted at all.

As you point out, we learned today, Preet, that the Trump campaign legal team actually sent a memo to dozens of staffers ordering them to preserve all documents related to the Dominion voting system. And Sidney Powell, the President's attorney, she was removed at one point but she's had all these ridiculous legal concepts, as we all know. It's anticipated the company may actually sue Powell who's the staunchly pro-Trump attorney demanding public retraction on some of her claims. What are your thoughts about all this?

BHARARA: Look, Michael Smerconish, sorry, I stumbled on the name, said it well, the goalposts keep changing. We keep thinking that we're sort of done with the nonsense on Election Day, then we thought we were done with a nonsense when the election was called for Biden, and then when you have the electors vote, and then when you have other things happen. And it seems like every day for the next 32 days, you're going to have some talk about this kind of thing.

I think it is worthwhile to note that although I've had disagreements with an admin critical of other lawyers around the president, there's a distinction between the credibility of the White House Counsel, who according to reports has knocked down some of these suggestions on the part of the President.

And Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell, there's a distinction between those folks who draw some line and these other individuals who are outside of the government, Rudy and Sidney Powell, for example, that I think will hold the line a little bit.

And hopefully those lawyers will persuade the President not to do these unprecedented things, even in the face of having lost decisively an election, both in the Electoral College and in the popular vote. And I do also want to commend the lawyers who remember what the rules are in anticipation of litigation, telling various officials within the administration to make sure that they preserve documents, which is the right and proper, legitimate, ethical thing that lawyers do.

But there are some lawyers who are going way, way, way beyond the pale and that includes Sidney Powell.

BLITZER: Why do you think the President is doing this? The U.S. Supreme Court didn't want to hear this challenge. The Electoral College officially ruled that Biden won the election, even the outgoing Attorney General Bill Barr said there was no evidence of widespread fraud. But the President continues to pursue this, why?

BHARARA: I think there are two reasons and I'm a little more alarmed about the second reason. The first reason I think has always been the case, that if he's going to lose, he doesn't want to look like a loser. And he even has said reportedly that he's not going to say he lost, he's going to say he didn't win.

These distinctions mean a lot to him, linguistically. And he wants to create a narrative in which he can say whether he runs for president again or not, that he didn't lose. It was a cheating election and it was stolen from him. And we get that from all these moves that he's making and his lawyers have been making.

The second reason is I think he really does and somewhere in his mind hold out some hope that there's a Hail Mary pass. When he goes to bed at night, I think he dreams of a way that he can maybe save himself and overturn the election. And it's an increasingly dwindling number of human beings with brains in this country who are feeding him that. The people closest to him, it's been reported, are looking for other work. They intend to be in stable jobs after the administration is over.

But you have this tiny number of people who are not living on earth one, Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell and others, who he likes to listen to because they tell him what he wants to hear. And so if there was some way and I don't think there is so I'm calm about it, but if there were some way, some dramatic move he could make, Hail Mary pass he could throw, he would throw it.

BLITZER: He's trying to throw it, that's what he's doing. It's very, very disturbing. Preet, thank you very, very much.

BHARARA: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Also tonight, parts of the U.K. are going back under lockdown after a surge in cases that experts say is due to a new more contagious strain of the coronavirus. We'll go to London when we come back.

[18:49:55]

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[18:54:20]

BLITZER: The British government this weekend telling people in much of the United Kingdom to cancel their Christmas travel plans and prepare for a near total lockdown. It's a very severe set of restrictions that go into effect Sunday in hopes of stopping the spread of the coronavirus.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is in London with more details for us. Salma.

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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Wolf, if you've packed your bags, unpack them. That's the message from the British government tonight as they impose 11th hour Coronavirus restrictions. The Prime Minister is finally bowing down to mounting pressure to put tougher new measures into place to deal with a spike in cases. The Prime Minister says that this spread is caused by new variant of coronavirus that is 70 percent more transmissible.

[18:55:05]

So what's the solution? Well, starting Sunday, London in the affected areas will go into tier-four restrictions. That means shutting down all non-essential shops, calling on people to stay at home and work from home. And travel will be banned.

Also a five-day relaxation period that had been scheduled for Christmas time that is now cancelled, but many people asking why the Prime Minister and his government are acting so last minute when health experts have been calling for these rules to go into place for days, Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll watch it together with you, Salma Abdelaziz in London. Thank you very much.

We're learning also new details tonight of a rather heated Oval Office meeting where President Trump's allies actually floated the idea of enacting martial law here in the United States as a way to try to overturn the presidential election. We'll go live to the White House when we come back.

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