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Johnson & Johnson Vaccine Pause; Testimony Continues In Derek Chauvin Trial; Minnesota Police Shooting Fallout; Protesters Gathering For Third Night After Wright Shooting; Biden To Announce Withdrawal Of U.S. Troops From Afghanistan By September 11; Prosecutors: Oath Keepers Likely Stashed Weapons At Nearby Hotel For Armed "Quick Reason Force" Prior To Insurrection. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 13, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

We're following tensions in the Minneapolis area and fears of a third night of unrest, after the police killing of an unarmed black man. The officer who fatally shot Daunte Wright during a traffic stop has now resigned. So has the Brooklyn Center police chief who said the shooting was accidental.

The nearby city of Minneapolis is facing a curfew tonight, as the defense has started presenting its case in the murder trial of former police officer Derek Chauvin. A use of force expert testifying that he believed Chauvin's actions in the arrest of George Floyd were justified, that assessment in stark contrast to multiple prosecution witnesses, who said Chauvin used deadly force, in violation of policy.

Also, a CDC panel is preparing to meet tomorrow to review Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine, the agency joining with the FDA to recommend a pause in J&J shots, after six reported cases of a rare and severe type of blood clot. Much more on that coming up this hour.

But, first, let's go to our senior national correspondent, Miguel Marquez, in Brooklyn Center in Minnesota for us.

Miguel, the officer was shot Daunte Wright has resigned. And we're told the prosecutor hopes to have a decision possible charges as early as tomorrow. What's the latest?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that is the possibility over in Washington County.

Right now, we're at the police station in Brooklyn Center, where a few dozen protesters have shown up. A lot of National Guard have shown up as well. They are prepared for anything tonight. Emotions in this town, this area, state still very raw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATIE WRIGHT, MOTHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: I never imagined this is what was going to happen. I just thought maybe he was being arrested.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Another day, another American family, African American, fed up with the unequal treatment all around, now reeling at the death of a son, brother and father, Daunte Wright dead at the hands of police.

WRIGHT: She pointed the phone towards the driver's seat. And my son was laying there unresponsive. That was the last time that I seen my son. That's the last time I heard from my son. And I have had no explanation since then.

MARQUEZ: The fallout from the death of Daunte Wright still reverberating.

The chief of Brooklyn Center police and the officer who fired the fatal shot, Kim Potter, a 26-year veteran of the force, have both resigned.

MIKE ELLIOTT, MAYOR OF BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA: I'm hoping that this will help bring some calm to the community, although I think, ultimately, people want justice. They want full accountability under the law. And so that's what we're going to continue to work for.

MARQUEZ: Many residents here angry, demanding change.

NAISHA WRIGHT, AUNT OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: No more just because they're black, because they're brown. No more. I'm sick and I'm tired. And it's people like you.

MARQUEZ: The police chief said Potter thought she had pulled her Taser, but instead held her service weapon and fired a single shot into Daunte Wright at point-blank range.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taser! Taser! Taser!

MARQUEZ: The Wright family says there is no excuse.

N. WRIGHT: She was the law. She was the law, right? Protect and serve. Put her in jail, like they would do any one of us. They would put us under that jail cell. It wouldn't be no accident. It would be murder.

MARQUEZ: Many residents here incensed by the repeated deaths, use of force and everyday dealings with some police officers.

Last night, frustration boiled over into the streets, as protesters challenged police at the Brooklyn Center station in Northwestern Minneapolis, taunting them, and some throwing objects and shooting fireworks at officers in full riot gear.

Police resorted to tear gas, pepper balls and flashbang grenades to clear the protesters, protesters demanding deeper changes to the police force and policing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: So, last night in Brooklyn Center, they had a 7:00 p.m. curfew. So far, the city has not called for one.

However, the city of Minneapolis -- this is sort of northwest Minneapolis. It's in the metro area. The city of Minneapolis has put in a 10:00 p.m. curfew order for tonight. We did see some businesses downtown Minneapolis boarding up, all of this part of a plan that was already put in place for the end of the Chauvin trial, Operation Safety Net.

[18:05:12]

So, all of the -- sort of the resources were in the area, and they have just activated them early, in the hopes that they won't have to use them at all tonight and after the Chauvin trial -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Clearly a very tense situation. Miguel, thank you very much.

Now to the Derek Chauvin murder trial. Court has wrapped up for the day, after the first round of witnesses presented by the defense.

CNN's Omar Jimenez has our report from Minneapolis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The beginning of the defense's case for former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin offered jurors the first expert witness to definitively defend Chauvin's actions.

BARRY BRODD, EXPERT WITNESS ON USE OF FORCE: I felt that Derek Chauvin was justified, was acting with objective reasonableness, following Minneapolis Police Department policy and current standards of law enforcement, in his interactions with Mr. Floyd.

JIMENEZ: A use of force consultants saying the officers could have used more force when he resisted.

BRODD: I felt that level of resistance exhibited by Mr. Floyd justified the officers and higher levels use of force that they chose not to select.

JIMENEZ: But during cross-examination, prosecutors pushed back, specifically on the length of time of the use of force, asking if the same situational awareness an officer might use to monitor a crowd should also be used to monitor a suspect's medical condition.

STEVE SCHLEICHER, MINNESOTA PROSECUTOR: Particularly if they're exhibiting signs of distress.

BRODD: Yes.

SCHLEICHER: Loss of consciousness.

BRODD: Yes.

SCHLEICHER: Inability to breathe.

BRODD: Yes.

SCHLEICHER: Loss of pulse.

BRODD: Yes.

SCHLEICHER: All of these things, a reasonable officer should take into consideration when determining whether to escalate force, de-escalate force, or remain the same, correct?

BRODD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last name?

GEORGE FLOYD, DIED IN POLICE CUSTODY: Floyd.

JIMENEZ: The defense also took jurors back to May 25, 2020, with police body camera video.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He still won't get in the car. Just sit down, dude.

ERIC NELSON, ATTORNEY FOR DEREK CHAUVIN: How would you describe Mr. Floyd's behavior while inside of the Cup Foods?

SHAWANDA HILL, FRIEND OF GEORGE FLOYD: Happy, normal, talking, alert.

JIMENEZ: Shawanda Hill was a friend of George Floyd's who was in the car with him in the moments leading to his confrontation with police. Minutes later, Hill tried to see what was happening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They still fighting it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, man. What is he doing?

JIMENEZ: But some of the testimony Tuesday went into George Floyd's past, including a portion of a 2019 arrest which the judge allowed because he ruled it was similar to the deadly May 2020 confrontation, confrontation by police, followed by a rapid ingestion of drugs.

NELSON: So, he told you that he had taken the pill at the time the officers were apprehending him?

MICHELLE MOSENG, RETIRED PARAMEDIC: Correct.

JIMENEZ: The paramedic who responded that day was called by the defense, focusing on drugs taken that day and the high blood pressure recorded.

NELSON: Did you ultimately make recommendations to transport Mr. Floyd to the hospital?

MOSENG: Based on that and other issues.

JIMENEZ: But prosecutors drew a critical bottom line in their cross- examination.

ERIN ELDRIDGE, MINNESOTA ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: He didn't have a stroke while you were with him.

MOSENG: No.

ELDRIDGE: He was never given Narcan, correct?

MOSENG: Correct.

ELDRIDGE: He didn't stop breathing.

MOSENG: No.

ELDRIDGE: His heart didn't stop.

MOSENG: No.

ELDRIDGE: He didn't go into cardiac arrest.

MOSENG: No.

ELDRIDGE: He didn't go into a coma.

MOSENG: No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: Now, one of the more tense exchanges came today during cross- examination of that use of force expert. Prosecutors played a portion of a body camera video showing Floyd on the ground, still conscious, but cuffed and under the weight of three officers, including the knee of Derek Chauvin, and asked him if, at this point, Floyd was compliant.

He didn't necessarily agree. So, prosecutors pushed back. And, eventually, he said Floyd would have been compliant once he was resting comfortably on the pavement.

Now, court is out for the day, but the judge told jurors as he dismissed them: Have a good night. Don't talk to anyone. And don't watch the news in a very tense Minneapolis area ahead of closing arguments scheduled for this Monday, Wolf.

BLITZER: It certainly is.

Omar, stand by. We're going to get back to you in just a few moments.

But, for right now, I want to talk to one of the lead lawyers for George Floyd's family, Chris Stewart, who's joining us live.

Chris, thanks, as usual, for joining us.

As you heard, the defense began making its case today, calling a use of force expert who said Chauvin was justified, justified, and that -- quote -- "Police officers don't have to fight fair." Those are quotes.

What's your reaction to day one of the defense argument?

L. CHRIS STEWART, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF GEORGE FLOYD: Thanks for having me.

That expert was a disaster for Derek Chauvin. It reminds on the Titanic. Allegedly, the band kept playing as the ship was sinking. That's all we're going to hear this week is Derek Chauvin's band, because this was a disaster.

[18:10:09]

That expert totally refuted everything that he said on direct and gave the prosecution everything they needed, so not a good day for the defense.

BLITZER: Why do you think the defense used video of George Floyd's 2019 arrest, when it seemed to show a how very different approach by officers kept George Floyd alive in that situation?

STEWART: Exactly.

That's what hurt with that witness is, you know what that officer did? He didn't kill George Floyd. You know what Derek Chauvin did? He murdered George Floyd. I don't know if it was little man syndrome or whatever it was. He killed George Floyd.

The officer they had on the stand today, he didn't. So that hurt them. I'm not sure what they're doing, but it didn't work today.

BLITZER: We're showing our viewers, by the way, Chris, some live pictures coming in from Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, crowds beginning to gather, as they did last night, the night before, to protest the killing of Daunte Wright. The 20-year-old was killed there by a police officer.

The defense in the Chauvin trial implied that a suspect on drugs wouldn't necessarily understand commands from the police, might not necessarily feel pain, might have what they described as superhuman strength.

How does the Floyd family cope with hearing George Floyd painted in that light?

STEWART: Well, they have heard it before, like every African-American in this country has heard. If you're large, if you're over 6 feet, if you're over 150 pounds, you're a threat for law enforcement.

And so, in every case I have ever had, words come out like superhuman strength or in the Desmond Marrow case, he was strong as a bull. It's those type of stereotypes and derogatory comments that they believe will justify a jury or a chief in not reprimanding them or putting them behind bars.

So, it's not shocking.

BLITZER: The Minneapolis -- as you know, the Minneapolis area is grieving the killing of yet another black man by police. And we're showing our viewers some live pictures of people beginning to gather.

STEWART: Yes.

BLITZER: We're talking about Daunte Wright, the 20-year-old.

His aunt spoke emotionally to CNN last night, asking, how do we put life back together after this?

So, Chris, how hard is it to see yet another black family having to deal with this kind of pain?

STEWART: Why are we shocked? Why are we shocked by Mr. Wright's murder?

When Walter Scott was killed, Alton Sterling was killed literally right after. When Alton Sterling was killed, Philando Castile was killed right after. Why are we shocked that it keeps repeating?

Until policing is fully overhauled, we're going to keep repeating it. So don't be shocked by seeing another black person killed. It happens because racial profiling is allowed constantly. And that allows an officer to interact and escalate situations.

So, why are we shocked? I could have been Mr. Wright. I had a gun put in my face in college for simply sitting on a car waiting to get in a bar with my friends. And they said they heard suspicious people were in the area. They came out with guns in our faces. And we had on suits.

So, why are we shocked? This is reality. And so, until we change it, you will see this reality again next month, the month after and next year. So, don't be shocked by Mr. Wright's murder.

Feel sorry for the family, but don't be shocked by what's really happening.

BLITZER: Was that when you were a student here in Washington at Howard University? That's a pretty scary event that you're describing.

STEWART: No, this was actually when I went to Xavier down in Louisiana. But you are my Howard brother, both of us having gone there. So, luckily, that didn't happen in D.C.

BLITZER: All right.

Well, Chris Stewart, thank God you're OK. And we will continue our conversations down the road. Appreciate it very much.

STEWART: Any time.

BLITZER: All right, good work.

Let's bring in -- bring back CNN's Omar Jimenez. He's on the ground for us in Minneapolis, along with CNN political commentator the attorney Bakari Sellers, and CNN legal analyst Paul Callan.

Bakari, this use of force expert for the defense said the ex-police officer Derek Chauvin was justified in doing what he did. That certainly -- that doesn't just contradict the prosecution's expert witnesses. And there were so many of them. It also contradicts will be actually heard from Chauvin's police chief, right?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I have to agree with my good friend Chris Stewart on this one. This expert wasn't up to par today.

He wasn't decisive. He wasn't commanding of the courtroom. He didn't have the same charisma that you saw a lot of those experts have last week. I'm not sure he scored any points for the defense in this case.

And if their -- if the defense is going to have any semblance of success next week, when this trial goes back to the jury, they're going to have to do a lot better job than the expert we saw today.

[18:15:00]

There were so many times that he came out and stated something with some hesitancy, a lack of certainty, only to completely backpedal like Deion Sanders when he was questioned by the prosecution.

And so I think that, today -- and you couple that with showing George Floyd's last interaction, today was a day when you throw your hands up, and you simply don't really know what the defense was trying to do.

BLITZER: Paul, were you surprised by how often defense witnesses today seemed to get tripped up by the prosecution's cross-examination?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes and no.

I think one of the things we have seen, Wolf, in this case has been a disparity in the resources available to the prosecutor, as opposed to the defense. The prosecutor put in a spectacular case, had some of the best witnesses in the country in the field of excess force, in the field of all of the medical issues in the case.

Now look at what the defense has. They have a solo defense attorney. And, boy, if today's any indication, they're having a tough time getting good experts in their own behalf. So, I think that's one of the problems. They're just outgunned by the prosecution completely.

This expert, the excessive force expert that they called, I mean, by the end of the day, you would start to think that he was testifying for the prosecution in the case.

(LAUGHTER)

CALLAN: So, that was a tribute to the cross-examination. But you have to wonder why they hired him.

Now, I have been involved in enough cases to see, sometimes, you can't get a good witness to defend what you did. And I think Derek Chauvin is going to have a hard time getting any witness who's good and credible to defend what went on in that street and in the events leading up to the death of George Floyd. BLITZER: Yes, but during the cross-examination, I was beginning to think exactly what you suggested.

Bakari, what do you think the defense was trying to prove with that 2019 George Floyd arrest video? Because, in that case, officers responded differently. He walked away from that interaction alive.

SELLERS: So, you have a swathe, a large vocal swathe -- and I hate to juxtapose cases like this, but here we are in this country.

You have the murder case about 10 miles down the road, and you hear that group of people in this country say, but if he didn't resist, if he didn't resist. That's a large group of people in this country, as flawed as that particular ideology is.

And I think that there was some kind of method here that the defense is trying to get some of those jurors who may be of that but if he didn't resist, if he didn't do this at this time, he would still be alive today.

This is still trying to shift the prism, as we have talked about earlier, from the trial of Derek Chauvin to the trial of George Floyd, highlighting his behavior and, again, subconsciously even, highlighting that this wasn't his first interaction with law enforcement, building this theme again that he is this constant troublemaker that interacts with law enforcement.

And I'm actually a little bit shocked that these other incidents were allowed to be in. In most states, that's not something that happens. That's highly prejudicial.

BLITZER: Yes, that's what I thought as well.

Omar, as the trial unfolds, the Minneapolis area, as we all know, is reeling from Sunday's police killing of 20-year-old Daunte Wright. Just how tense is the situation where you are on the ground?

JIMENEZ: Well, I mean, it's as tense as things have ever been.

I mean, you look at the law enforcement response alone, the mayor, Jacob Frey, in Minneapolis, prior to all of this happening leading up to the trial, said that they would describe their security response in three phases, phase one around jury selection. We were in phase two for a long time. And then phase three would be their highest level of alert, so to speak, that they were planning to save for closing arguments and deliberating on verdicts.

They have now bumped that up early, in anticipation of some of that tenseness in Brooklyn Center spilling into Minneapolis, and then, of course, all of them melding together as we head into closing arguments next week, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we will see what happens.

All right, guys, thank you very, very much. Just ahead: the pause in administering the J&J vaccine here in the

United States, what it could mean for you and your family and for the vaccine rollout.

We will discuss when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:23:06]

BLITZER: Take a look at this, live pictures out of Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, protesters gathering outside the police station there following the police shooting death of Daunte Wright. We're going to continue to monitor the developments on the ground there.

But there's also very important other news we're following right now, including the CDC instructing all states here in the United States to put all doses of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine on hold, this as health officials are examining severe blood clots developed by six women within weeks of getting the J&J shot.

Our Chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, has more on the medical concerns and what it all means for President Biden's race to vaccinate the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Biden attempting to tamp down concerns after Johnson & Johnson vaccinations were brought to a screeching halt.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My message to the American people on the vaccine is, I told you all, I made sure we have 600 million doses.

COLLINS: The FDA and CDC calling on states to stop administering the J&J vaccine, while ordering federal vaccination sites to do the same, after six recipients experienced rare, but severe blood clots.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: What does a pause mean? It really allows both the FDA and the CDC to further investigate these cases.

COLLINS: Out of the 6.8 million people in the U.S. who have gotten J&J, the six with blood clots were women between the ages of 18 and 48 who developed symptoms within 13 days of being vaccinated.

One died and another was hospitalized in critical condition. Federal health officials pushed for the pause out of an abundance of caution, as other experts said the clots appeared to be extremely rare.

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: When you think about a one- in-a-million event, that's -- you cross the street every day, you have a much higher chance of getting run over by a car.

[18:25:05] COLLINS: Officials said they were concerned that providers would treat the rare clots with conventional drugs that could make them worse.

FAUCI: When you have thrombosis, the most common way to treat that is with heparin. That would be a mistake in this situation.

COLLINS: For those who have already gotten J&J, Dr. Anthony Fauci says not to panic, but be on the lookout for headaches, shortness of breath, and abdominal or chest pain.

FAUCI: First of all, don't get an anxiety reaction, because, remember, it's less than one in a million. However, having said that, pay attention.

COLLINS: President Biden says he's not concerned the pause will affect his vaccine goals.

BIDEN: There's enough vaccine that is basically 100 percent unquestionable for every single, solitary American.

COLLINS: But his staff is expressing concern about whether the pause will exacerbate vaccine hesitancy.

JEFF ZIENTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Look, hesitancy amongst a group of people is a challenge. The FDA, acting the way they did today, shows that they are indeed the gold standard. And I think that should reassure the American public.

COLLINS: After some state officials privately complained they were caught off-guard by the pause, the White House said they got the message out as fast as possible.

ZIENTS: We didn't know about anything in terms of the announcement until last night, and we didn't even know the content of the announcement until this morning, when everyone else read it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Wolf, the thing the White House says they did after learning about the contents of that announcement was work to get people who were scheduled to get the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the coming days a Moderna or Pfizer appointment.

So that's something you're likely to see states still dealing with over the next several days as this pause is still very much in effect. But the next thing that people will also be watching is a 1:30 meeting tomorrow with the CDC's advisory committee on vaccines.

They're going to be talking about what the next steps for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are going to be, as they are reviewing these possible links with these blood clots, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Kaitlan Collins at the White House for us, thank you very much.

Let's get some more on all of this. CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen is joining us. She's an emergency

room physician, former Baltimore City health commissioner.

Dr. Wen, thanks so much for joining us.

You received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine less than two weeks ago. Are you concerned for your own health? And what's your message to others who took this shot, might be feeling uneasy tonight based on what we now know?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, my message to my patients and also to myself, having just received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, is that this -- the blood clotting disorder that prompted the FDA and CDC to put a pause on Johnson & Johnson, it's extremely rare. It's less than one in a million.

But that said, it's still the right decision by the federal health officials. Actually, it should give everybody a lot more confidence in vaccines, because we know that even for something that's one in a million, they're willing to hit pause to do this thorough and careful investigation.

And I hope that people will have full confidence in the Pfizer Moderna vaccines, which are a different mechanism from Johnson & Johnson, and know that they have been given to over 100 million individuals without this kind of red flag.

BLITZER: What symptoms should those who received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine be looking out for? When should someone contact their doctor, for example, with concerns, especially women like you, between the ages of 18 and 48?

WEN: Two aspects.

One is the when to look out for symptoms. And the other is what to look for. The when is really important. The when should be a few days to a few weeks after getting the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. If you just got the vaccine, and now you're having fever, body aches, headaches, that's normal, that's expected. That's your body reacting and producing antibodies and the appropriate immune response.

Also, if you're two months out from getting the vaccine, you probably are not at risk. So, it's in that several-days-to-several-weeks type of period. In terms of what to look out for, I would look for new and concerning symptoms, things like a headache.

If you normally have headaches, this is your normal headache, don't worry about that. But if it's a new and worse headache, call your doctor for that. Also, shortness of breath, abdominal pain, chest pain, swelling in one leg, redness in one leg or one arm over the other, those are also the types of things to call your doctor for.

BLITZER: How are you feeling?

WEN: I feel just fine. And I really -- I'm at this point more concerned about reassuring my

patients and reassuring everyone, and clinicians too. We, as clinicians, only found out this morning, along with everybody else as well. And I think it really is part of the reason why the FDA and CDC issued their guidance, is to alert clinicians about what to look out for, because patients who have this disorder will be treated differently than patients who don't.

BLITZER: Yes, that's a good point.

Dr. Leana Wen, as usual, thank you very much. And glad you're feeling fine.

Coming up, I will speak with CNN's Don Lemon about the death of yet another unarmed black man at the hands of police in Minnesota.

[18:30:04]

There's Don. He's standing by live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're following fast-moving developments in Minnesota right now. Protesters, take a look at this, gathering in Brooklyn Center, hours after the police officer who fatally shot Daunte Wright has resigned.

Let's discuss this and more with my friend and colleague, CNN's Don Lemon, the anchor of "CNN TONIGHT." He's also the Author of the brand new book, there you see the cover, This Is The Fire, What I Say to My Friends About Racism. It's a New York Times number one bestseller, as it should be.

[18:35:01]

Don, thanks for joining us.

You've been covering the killing of yet another young black man, 20 years old, at the hands of police. You talked about how this is so personal for you and it is exhausting. Share some perspective for our viewers about the pain so many Americans are feeling right now.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Wolf, this is the reason that I wrote the book that you so kindly mentioned in introducing me, is because of the pain people are feeling, especially people of color. All people are. All Americans, I believe, are feeling this pain.

But let me just talk about people of color first, because we see ourselves in these young men. We see a nephew, a cousin, an uncle, a brother, even a father and we see people we know. And people we know who become demonized after they are the victims of such events.

And we all know there are no perfect victims and there are no perfect people in this society. Young people make mistakes. Young people do things that maybe they shouldn't do without thinking. So I think that what people of color especially are feeling in this moment is that they want everyone in the country to feel and see their humanity.

Now, just the larger part here, all Americans are feeling, I think, anxiety here, and being re-traumatized over and over by these videos that are playing out on our television screens of people who are losing their lives right in front of our eyes. It is traumatic and one has to be affected by it, especially when it's represented over and over and over and over and nothing appears to be done about it. We're exhausted. We're tired. It's -- you know, I don't know what else to say about it, Wolf. It's exhausting.

BLITZER: It's so sad. And if you look, Don, at a community like Minneapolis and its surrounding areas, what they're going through right now, what they've gone through over the course of the last year, it's not just a matter of individual pain but a collective pain as well, right?

LEMON: It is a collective pain because this is their community. This is what they know. These are the people they love. These are their neighbors. These are their friends. And there is, you know -- as Eckhart Tolle, I know this is a little sort of esoteric, but Eckhart Tolle writes about the collective pain body of certain people, of African-American, of Jewish people, of marginalized people. And there are certain people who carry this collective pain body.

I think African-Americans in communities like this have this collective pain that they have to deal with on a loop. And I think what people are feeling now is anxious in these communities. Is this going to happen again? And rightfully so, look, ten miles down the road from where Derek Chauvin is on trial, where George Floyd's life was snuffed out of him, now you have another unarmed black man who was killed by police, according to the police, a mistake.

And so, this is not -- just ten miles down the road. So, can you imagine the anxiety that the people in that community are feeling and in other communities who are, again, re-traumatized over and over again by these similar incidents?

BLITZER: Are you at all optimistic, Don, that we potentially could see some sweeping, meaningful reform in this country? Do you think any real headway has been made over the course, shall we say, of the past ten years?

LEMON: I don't think much headway has been made when it comes to this issue, I think, at least with legislation. I do think, as far as awareness, real headway has been made. I don't think that these events are occurring in any new greater number than they had before.

I just think now in the advent of cell phones and instant cameras and people putting it on social media that we're seeing it. And I think it has brought an awareness to the American public that these things are real and it's not just something that black people are making up.

So I think the headway is yet to be seen as far as legislation. But I am positive that there is a president in place in this country who at least has empathy and can try to push the Congress and the Senate in a direction to make some changes. BLITZER: Don, thank you very, very much. And Don, of course, we're going to have much more on this story later tonight on "CNN TONIGHT" 10:00 p.m. Eastern, we watch every single night. Don, thank you very much.

LEMON: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead, prosecutor say the pro-Trump Oath Keepers had an armed, quick reaction force ahead of the Capitol riot and surprising hideout for weapons.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: We're following significant new developments in the U.S. national security and foreign policy area, including President Biden's plan to announce a troop withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Let's go to our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto, the Anchor of CNN Newsroom. Jim, so what are you learning about the time line and the risk?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's remarkable to imagine today that there are soldiers serving in the region who are not alive 20 years ago when the 9/11 attacks happened.

A senior administration official explaining the president's decision to withdraw U.S. forces by the 20th anniversary of 9/11 says, and I'm quoting here, that we've long known that there is no military solution to the many problems plaguing Afghanistan.

So, in effect, the U.S. is leaving Afghanistan to the current Afghanistan government into a negotiated settlement with the Taliban that is fraught with danger. The Taliban continues to kill civilians and terrorist attacks. They have no interest in many of the progress on human rights in the country, like educating young girls.

[18:45:01]

But the U.S. deciding we're out, in effect. The other challenge here is, of course, a counterterror one.

A senior U.S. defense official says it's the U.S. intelligence assessment that al Qaeda today does not have the capability to carry out big plots overseas on the U.S. homeland. I pressed and I said, well, how long is that the case? And what do you do if you have a similar situation to the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq when ISIS, of course?

They said, we'll be nimble. We'll keep resources outside of Afghanistan and we can go back in, in effect, to challenge those terror threats if they arise again.

BLITZER: As you know, Jim, the U.S. intelligence community put out a detailed report, today, detailing global threats facing the United States. What are the dire warnings?

SCIUTTO: That's right. it basically puts China at the top a list. It's China, Iran, North Korea all posed serious threats to the U.S. But it puts China at the top list, which is something that has evolved over recent years, I've heard it from national security officials for a number of years.

That while Russia is dangerous, China is viewed as the greater long term threat to the U.S.

I'm reading from the report now here. It says: China is increasingly a near peer competitor, that near peer to the U.S., challenging the United States in multiple arenas. We continue to assess that China can launch cyberattacks that at a minimum can cause localized temporary disruptions to critical infrastructure within the U.S.

The cyber threat, of course, one of them but don't forget Russia too, because right now, you have a mounting Russian military presence right along the board with Ukraine. U.S. officials watching that very closely, they believe there is a chance that could turn to something real, perhaps something more serious on the ground.

But they also single out Russia's cyber threat to the U.S. Of course, we've seen that with the SolarWinds attack just in last several months.

BLITZER: Yeah, President Biden spoke with Putin today proposed a summit in a third country, coming up in the next few months. We'll watch that closely.

Jim Sciutto, thanks very much for that report.

Coming up, new indications that the far-right extremist Oath Keepers group might have come to the D.C. area preparing for a potentially deadly confrontation on the day of the January 6th Capitol riot.

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BLITZER: We are following disturbing new allegations from federal prosecutors about preparation for the pro-Trump extremist Oath Keepers group, preparations that they took ahead of the deadly Capitol riot.

CNN's Brian Todd is working the story for us.

What are you learning, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is jarring new information from prosecutors about weapons the Oath Keepers allegedly prepared to bring into Washington that day. What has law enforcement experts shuddering tonight is thinking of the potential carnage the group could have inflicted on January 6th.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TODD (voice-over): The group's members face some of the most serious charges of conspiracy, relating to the capitol attack. Tonight, new information that the far-right paramilitary group the Oath Keepers might have come to the D.C. area that they, at least preparing for a potentially deadly confrontation. Prosecutors now say, at least one member of the Oath Keepers likely stored weapons at this comfort in hotel in Arlington, Virginia, just a few miles in from the Capitol, during the January 6th insurrection.

Prosecutors say the weapons or force away so called quick reaction force, that the Oath Keepers could deploy into D.C. if needed.

SAM JACKSON, AUTHOR, "OATH KEEPERS": So, if Oath Keepers had actually brought these weapons into D.C. proper, I think that would have certainly heightened tensions between those who were engaged in the riot and the law enforcement response.

TODD: For the first time, prosecutors revealed photos of an alleged Oath Keeper named Kenneth Harrelson (ph), carrying we looked like a rifle case inside that Arlington hotel. Prosecutors say Harrelson, who is charged with conspiracy likely contributed to weapons.

Thomas Caldwell as another alleged member the Oath Keepers was indicted in the same conspiracy case.

THOMAS CALDWELL, ALLEGED MEMBER OF OATH KEEPERS: Very single (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in there is a traitor! Every single one!

TODD: Prosecutors have said Caldwell discussed bringing weapons across the Potomac River into Washington by boat, on or before January 6th. Until now, it hadn't been clear until the Oath Keepers alleged quick reaction force was just aspirational, or weather is a real effort to stockpile weapons for potential use in Washington. Monitors of extremist groups say this kind of planning certainly fits the Oath Keepers pattern.

OREN SEGAL, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Oath Keepers are well known for some of their tactical training, some of the weapons training that they do.

TODD: Some alleged members of the Oath Keepers were videotaped on January 6th walking up to the capital in organize column, in tactical gear. Then were photographed gathering inside of the Capitol. Some Oath Keepers were identified by CNN as appearing to provide security for Trump ally Roger Stone on and around January 6th in Washington.

JACKSON: There have certainly been examples of the past, where oath keepers as an organization have prepared for or offered to engage in hostility, if not outright violence to act of security for someone that they view as embodying American values, but also threatened by the American state.

TODD: A dozen members of the Oath Keepers now face conspiracy charges, relating to the January 6th attack. Analysts say, under so much legal pressure, some members of the group could turn on each other. JOHN SCOTT-RAILTON, RESEARCHER, CITIZEN LAB, UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO: It

seems like these are people who really enjoyed wearing these uniforms, enjoyed playing and performing this role. But I think it's going to be another thing when they face the combined strength of the U.S. government.

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[18:55:04]

TODD (on camera): Kenneth Harrelson, Thomas Caldwell, and the other alleged Oath Keepers charge all pleaded not guilty to conspiracy charges, there's no indication that any of those a legends -- weapons started that hotel where actually brought into the hotel on January 6th.

One defense attorney has claimed that so-called quick reaction force, was a precautionary measure against potential violence from Antifa -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us. Thank you very much.

And more news right after this.

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BLITZER: Finally, tonight, a powerful tribute to fallen Capitol Police Officer William "Billy" Evans, just wrapping up. His casket being moved from Capitol Hill after lying and honor in the capitol rotunda all day.

President Biden joined with congressional leaders to personally say farewell to Evans who died while protecting the U.S. Capitol during a car ramming attack. The president offered words of comfort to his family, and including his two children, praising the bravery of the 18-year veteran of the Capitol Police force and empathizing with his family's grief.

May Officer William "Billy" Evans rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.