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The Situation Room
Biden Addresses New Sanctions Imposed on Russia; First Court Appearance for Ex-Officer Charged in Killing of Daunte Wright as City Braces For 5th Night of Protests; Chauvin Invokes 5th Amendment Right, Chooses Not to Testify; Fauci Clashes with GOP Rep. Jim Jordan Over Pandemic Restrictions: "You Are Making This A Personal Thing"; NM Gov Settles Bizarre Case After Being Accused of Sexual Misconduct. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired April 15, 2021 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've been able to find ways to manage tensions, and to keep them from escalating out of control. There are also areas where Russia in the United States can and should work together. For example, in the earliest days of my administration, we were able to move quickly to extend for five years, the new start treaty and maintain that key element of nuclear stability between our nations. That was in the interest of the United States, Russia, and quite frankly, of the world. And we got it done. When I spoke to President Putin, I expressed my belief that communication between the two of us personally and directly was to be essential and moving forward to a more effective relationship, but he agreed on that point.
To that end, I propose that we meet in person this summer in Europe for a summer to address a range of issues facing both of our countries. Our teams are discussing that possibility right now. And out of that summit were to occur, and I believe it will, the United States and Russia could launch a strategic stability dialogue, to pursue cooperation in arms control and security.
We can address critical global challenges that require Russia in the United States to work together, including reining in nuclear threats from Iran and North Korea. And in this pandemic, globally, and meeting the existential crisis of climate change.
I also made clear to President Putin that the United States is unwavering in our support of our allies and partners in Europe. In that vein, I expressed concern about Russia's military buildup on Ukraine's border and an occupied Crimea. I affirmed US support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. And I strongly urge him to refrain from any military action. Now is the time to deescalate. The way forward is through thoughtful dialogue and diplomatic process. The U.S. is prepared to continue constructively to move through that process.
My bottom line is this, where there's an interest in nine states to work with Russia, we should, and we will. Russia seeks to violate interest in the United States we will respond and will always stand in defense of our country, our institutions, our people and our allies. Thank you very much for your time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, did President Putin give you any indication in that call that he is willing to change his behavior?
BIDEN: We indicated we would talk about it. I laid out, as I said, very simply -- I told -- I said during the campaign; I said when he called to congratulate me on being elected; I said, subsequent to that, this last conversation, that if it turned out that he was engaged in the activities that he'd been accused of in cybersecurity and SolarWinds and interfering in our elections that I would respond in kind. I urged him to respond appropriately, not to exceed it, because we can move as well. My hope and expectation is we'll be able to work out a modus vivendi. And -- but it's important that we have direct talks and that we continue to be in contact with one another. Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: Pardon me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not -- on Nord Stream, why didn't you keep going with the sanctions on Nord Stream 2, Mr. President?
BIDEN: Nord Stream 2 is a complicated issue affecting our allies in Europe. I've been opposed to Nord Stream 2 for a long time, from the beginning, when I was even -- when I was out of office and even before office, when we -- before I left office as Vice President. But that still is an issue that is in play. Thank you very much.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: So welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room. We're following the breaking news. We've been listening to President Biden at the White House talking about strict new sanctions he's imposing on Russia over a massive cyberattack, election interference and what he calls abuses in Crimea and elsewhere.
Let's bring in our Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins is watching all of this unfold together with us. Kaitlan, President spoke for what only about five minutes or so, but he was very specific, very blunt.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And these are pretty brief remarks, Wolf, that were not initially on President Biden's schedule. But after they announced those sweeping sanctions on Russia earlier this morning, they did say he wanted to come in front of cameras and address what is going on with reporters because they're kind of striking this delicate balance where they are putting all of these sanctions in response to not only Russia's attempts to interfere in the U.S. election, but also that massive cyber operation that they conducted against the U.S. government and several of the biggest U.S. companies and of course they want to not only do that but also say that they are not trying to escalate tensions with Russia that they want to have a stable predictable, the new phrase that you were hearing repeated time and time around the White House with Russia.
[17:05:11] And so you saw President Biden doing that they're talking about the conversation that he had with President Putin earlier this week talking about the fact that he says, if Russia continues to try to interfere in the United States' democracy, he will take further steps to punish them. But he also reiterated his invitation to have a summit with Putin this summer in Europe. That is something that we are told by a senior administration official. The Kremlin has not responded to yet. But President Biden says that offer still stands. So, you're seeing them trying to really strike a new tone with Russia. And of course, Wolf, this came after really four years of slaps on the wrist from the Trump administration, when it came to Russia. And now you're seeing them take these actions and say, they are not trying to escalate tensions, which of course, were already escalated at the beginning of the Biden administration, when he responded in that ABC interview, saying that, yes, he does agree Putin is a killer. You saw Putin fire back after that.
And now they are trying to strike this strategic area where they do have dialogue, he says. They do have areas of common interest, but also, he wants to be able to hold Russia accountable for the actions that they've taken not only with that solar winds hack, which they now have formerly said, Russia is responsible for this, it was the Foreign Intelligence Service in Russia that conducted this, but also for their efforts that we have seen not only in 2016, but also 2020 to try to attempt to interfere in the election.
BLITZER: Very specific statements by the president, United States. Kaitlan stay with us. I also want to bring in our Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez, and our Chief National Security Correspondent, Jim Sciutto.
The President says he's not looking, Jim, to kick off what he calls a cycle of escalation with Russia, but is seeking a stable and predictable relationship to these new sanctions that are now being imposed and the expulsion of Russian diplomats from the United States, several Russian diplomats bring the U.S. potentially closer to that goal?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's unclear what effect these sanctions will have, Wolf, because prior administrations, both the Obama administration and the Trump administration, they've tried this before. They've expelled diplomats. They've imposed economic sanctions Congress has as well. But Russia has continued to interfere in U.S. elections in 2016, 2020. They've continued to carry out cyberattacks, including this very significant one and solar winds. And they've continued, in fact, in recent weeks, escalated hostile activities along the border with Ukraine.
And I've spoken to people in the Pentagon, Wolf, who worried that this latest build up there is not just a show of force that it could mean something worse to come. So, what is different in these sanctions we haven't seen before is going after Russia's access to debt markets, that's key. Can they raise money abroad? Russia doesn't have a lot of debt. But it is a new step forward. Also, Russian access to property asset assets here in the U.S. But big picture, it's a strategy that administrations have tried before, and it has not changed Russian behavior. The test will be, does this round of sanctions change Russian behavior? And we'll see.
BLITZER: Yeah, we will. Evan, the President also making it very clear that with this, that the certain actions by the U.S. that Russia's activities will not be tolerated. And he was very blunt in saying that the U.S. will respond in kind if the Russians do more. He said, we want a stable and predictable relationship. What we're doing is measured and proportional. But he said that things could get even more tense if the Russians don't comply.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, yeah, that's right, Wolf, and if you remember back at the end of 20 -- just before President Trump took power, in 2017, the administration, the Obama administration, levied some sanctions related to the 2016 interference in the U.S. election. And one of the things that happened right before the Trump administration took office, was that Michael Flynn, who was the incoming National Security Adviser got on the phone with the Russian ambassador, and told the Russians not to overreact, to not to answer the U.S. sanctions. And so now there is no voice that is telling the Russians, to you know how to manage this situation. This is now sort of a different situation, because now you have a president who is serious about responding to the Russian actions. And he doesn't -- you don't have a president who is denying what the Russians are up to. And so that's a big, big change. Obviously, one of the big things that happened today to, Wolf, is that the Treasury Department announced sanctions against Konstantin Kilimnik, who's a Russian, who a Ukrainian businessman who was in business with Paul Manafort, the former chairman of the Trump campaign, and the allegation has been that Paul Manafort passed along the internal polling data from the Trump campaign to Kilimnik and then of course, that information went to the Russian intelligence services for the first time, we're seeing the Treasury Department saying that is exactly what happened. And that is a big deal, because not even the Mueller investigation established that clearly. So the idea that this information is now being put out really, really tells us that there's something else that has happened that has made the U.S. government more sure that this is what happened.
[17:10:31]
BLITZER: Yeah, a very significant statement. Indeed, you know, Kaitlan, when you compare today's actions by President Biden against Russia, to what we had grown accustomed to, during the Trump administration, the difference is very stark, very clear, right?
COLLINS: It is pretty stark. And I think it's also just in the way that you see President Biden talking about this, because he's not saying that we're just going to ignore Russia, and we're not going to have a relationship with them, which is often kind of the counter argument you heard from President Trump, when he was justifying his coziness with Putin. He was saying, well, I have to talk to him. And I have to have this relationship. And I think what you're seeing with President Biden is trying to say that, yes, you could do that, but also hold them accountable for these malign actions that they've taken.
One interesting note of the dynamic between Trump and Biden is what was missing from these sanctions today was anything related to those alleged Russian bounties on the heads of U.S. troops that we talked about, to Taliban linked militants. That was such a big point of consternation last year, and the question that even President Biden often raised when he was a candidate on the campaign trail was why President Trump was not holding them accountable for that. And today, we learned that the reason punishment for that is not included in these sanctions is because the U.S. doesn't feel confident enough in the intelligence. They say it's a pretty low intelligence assessment. And it's really difficult to gather that intelligence because a lot of it is coming from those Taliban linked detainees. And so that's notable as well, something that was missing.
And then the other thing I want to mention, Wolf, is the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which you have heard the Secretary of State Tony Blinken, say is a bad deal, multiple other people, including President Biden just now, that's also not included in these sanctions. It was something he was just asked about there, why it's not included, and what their actions are going to be moving forward with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.
BLITZER: Very sensitive issue between the U.S. and the European allies, I should say.
You know, Jim, President Biden says he told Putin in the phone conversation that they had, that he could have gone further, but chose not to. In fact, he just said, we want a stable and predictable relationship. He said, I propose that we commute, that we talk communicate personally and directly. And that's why he's proposing the summit this summer in Europe. So, sanctions, are they themselves more forceful than others? We've seen in the past or is this just more of the same when it comes to the sanctions?
SCIUTTO: Incrementally so, it's been discussed for some time, you know, the nuclear option, when it comes to sanctions would be to somehow deny Russian companies or individuals' access to dollar financial transactions, which is a tactic that the U.S. has used with Iran very effectively imposed enormous economic costs on Iran. They don't do that here. They get closer to that with some access, as I mentioned earlier to debt markets, but it's not a gigantic step forward. And perhaps that speaks to Biden's approach. Because it was notable to me, in his brief comments, the words proportional, frequently mentioned the word cooperation, saying there are areas of cooperation with Russia, including the START treaty, they just extended.
And, you know, this, this summit coming up and him saying at the same time, now is the time to deescalate. So, something of an olive branch, as he strikes out against Russia to punish them. Here something of an olive branch saying, hey, let's try to move forward. We'll see if Russia takes that offer. And we'll see if they take for instance, the offer of a summit. Still an open question.
BLITZER: Yeah, let's see how the Russians respond. The ball is now in their court, will be waiting for the Russian response. All right guys, thank you very much. There's more news we're following today in the Situation Room. We have details of the first court appearance by the police officer charged with manslaughter in the fatal shooting of Daunte Wright.
Plus, former a police officer Derek Chauvin declines to testify in his murder trial in Minneapolis, closing arguments over his role in the death of George Floyd are now set for Monday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:18:12]
BLITZER: Tonight, the Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Center is bracing for a potential fifth night of protests over the fatal police shooting of 20-year-old Daunte Wright. CNN's Adrian brought us 00:03:22 reports legal proceedings have started against the officer who fired the deadly shot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, former Brooklyn Center Police Officer Kim Potter making her first court appearance via a zoom hearing. But before the initial appearance, Potter bonded out of jail hours after she was booked. The 48-year-old officer who wore a plaid shirt spoke once answering yes, I am when the Hennepin County Judge asked if she was present.
According to the complaint, Potter pulled her nine-millimeter handgun with her right hand and pointed it at Wright, firing one round. Wright is heard on the video saying ah, he shot me and then drove away before crashing into another vehicle.
Investigators examined Potter's duty belt. The handgun was holstered on the right side of her belt, the taser, the left, the yellow taser with the black grip is in a straight drop position requiring Potter to pull it from its holster with her left hand. Potter charged with second degree manslaughter could face up to 10 years in prison and or a $20,000 fine for shooting 20-year-old Daunte Wright during a traffic stop Sunday.
NAISHA WRIGHT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S AUT: Can we get a conviction? Can we -- can we get thumping manslaughter? Y'all see the difference? This is a taser. This is a taser, but now my nephew was killed with this, a Glock.
[17:20:13]
BROADDUS: While Potter was in court Wright's family and one of their attorneys was in church using this pulpit to push for accountability.
KATIE WRIGHT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S MOTHER: The last few days everybody has asked me what we want. What do we want to see happen? And everybody keeps saying justice. But unfortunately, there's never going to be justice for us. The Justice would bring our son home to us knocking on the door with his big smile coming in the house. Sitting down eating dinner with us going out to lunch. Justice isn't even a word to me. I do want accountability 100 percent accountability.
BEN CRUMP, CIVIL RIGHT ATTORNEY: It was very difficult for this family to accept that this is an accident, where you have a veteran who's been on the police force for 26 years.
BROADDUS: Protests continue for fourth straight night. Protesters launched fireworks rocks and other projectiles at police. But tensions have lower.
CHIEF MATT LANGER, MINNESOTA STATE PATROL: We're thankful that tonight, the tension and the anxiety and the stress seem to be lower. Even though emotions are still high.
(END VIDEOTAP)
BROADDUS: And tonight, Wolf, another barrier installed separating protesters from the Brooklyn Center Police Department. But instead of chanting at this hour protesters are lifting their voice and protesting in a different way. They've hung air fresheners on the chain link fence that keeps them away from the police department. And you'll remember Daunte Wright mother told us her son told her moments before he was shot and killed. Brooklyn Center police pulled him over because he had an air freshener hanging in his rearview mirror. Next Thursday, the family will lay the 20-year-old father to rest and new Salem Missionary Baptist Church in North Minneapolis. Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Adrienne. Thank you very much. I will of course get back to you.
Meanwhile, in nearby Minneapolis, the trial of the former police officer charged with murder in the death of George Floyd is moving toward its final critical phases. CNN's Omar Jimenez is on the scene in Minneapolis for us.
Omar, both sides have rested, closing arguments are scheduled to begin Monday?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. And on this final day of testimony, we were actually a few words away from a mistrial. And that's basically because prosecutors wanted to add new data from blood gas tests done on George Floyd basically as a rebuttal to suggestions that a factor in his death could have been carbon monoxide. But the defense didn't get that data until too late basically, until their expert had left the state. And the judge even noted prosecutors were aware that this was going to come up. So he denied the entry of that new data and said if it comes up in any way in front of the jury, he will be forced to declare a mistrial. So the questioning of this final familiar witness had to be as precise as ever.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERRY BLACKWELL, PROSECUTOR: Your honor the State of Minnesota rest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Nelson anything further? JIMENEZ: The stage is now set for the long-awaited closing arguments in the trial of Derek Chauvin and the longer awaited jury deliberations. Notably, jurors didn't ever hear testimony from Derek Chauvin who until Thursday --
DEREK CHAUVIN: Nope, he's staying put there we've got him.
JIMENEZ: Only spoke through the past in the form of body camera video presented.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole thing guy down here was crazy, wouldn't come after the moment, wouldn't go on the back of the squad.
JIMENEZ: But confirmed import jurors wouldn't hear testimony from him in this trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will invoke my Fifth Amendment privilege today.
JIMENEZ: Outside of Chauvin's decision, a lot of courts centered on a familiar face, the return of pulmonologist Dr. Martin Tobin, who prosecutors used as a rebuttal witness to testimony that carbon monoxide could have played a role in George Floyd's death, pointing to a blood oxygen saturation report that showed George fluids was that 98 percent when he died.
BLACKWELL: Does that tell us anything whatsoever about what the carbon monoxide content could have been at a maximum? And --
MARTIN TOBIN, PROSECUTION WITNESS, PULMUNOLOGIST: Yes, it does. If the hemoglobin is saturated at 98 percent, it tells you all there was for everything else is 2 percent. And so the maximum amount of carbon monoxide would be 2 percent.
JIMENEZ: Tobin was among the over 40 witnesses that were called total on this trial from those steps away from George Floyd on May 25, 2020.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. McMillian in a minute.
[17:25:00]
CHARLES MCMILLIAN, PROSECUTION WITNESS: I can't, you know, I can't believe.
JIMENEZ: To law enforcement on the use of force that day.
STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTOR: Was this a trained Minneapolis police department defensive tactics technique?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is not.
BARRY BRODD, DEFENSE USE-OF-FORCE EXPERT: I felt that Derek Chauvin was justified, was acting with objective reasonableness.
JIMENEZ: And doctors on the cons of death.
DR. LINDSEY THOMAS, PROSECUTION WITNESS, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: There's no evidence to suggest he would have died that night, except for the interactions with law enforcement.
JIMENEZ: Now, a process almost a year in the making is just days away. As a dozen jurors have a weekend to prepare for what will be one of the most significant decisions in Minneapolis history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I were you, I would plan for long and hope for short.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ: And of course, we're now in the final stages of preparation both from a court standpoint as lawyers continued to work on the language that would be presented to jurors ahead of a verdict and from a community standpoint as more fortifications have gone up.
Today, additional razor wire was put up outside all five of the police precincts in Minneapolis out of an abundance of caution according to the police department. And as we get ever closer to the moment of a verdict in a very tense Minneapolis area. Wolf.
BLITZER: Very tense date. All right, Omar, thank you very much.
I want to bring in CNN Legal Analyst Elliot Williams, Defense Attorney Shan Wu and CNN Senior Political Correspondent Abby Philip.
You know, Elliot, the former police officer have killed Daunte Wright, the 20-year-old in Brooklyn Center was in court today but a lawyer for Wright's family says the charge of manslaughter is just an initial step toward justice. So where do you see where do you see things going from here?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, prosecutors often charge something right out of the gate as the most obvious, readily provable offense. And certainly, secondary manslaughter here is readily provable, you have to prove that the individual was called culpably negligent where their behavior created such a risk of harm or death to other people, that it's a criminal offense.
Now, prosecutors, I assure you right now, Wolf, are debating whether they can bump this up or charge third degree murder. That's complicated in Minnesota because right now the Minnesota Supreme Court is weighing how you can charge a police officer for third degree murder. It happened just in the last year, but they're weighing the question. But certainly, they're talking about it. So yes, it is an opening. Who knows where plea negotiations or the - you know whether this goes to trial? But certainly, secondary manslaughter is a pretty clean charge here. And most likely, the most obvious thing that most prosecutors would bring, I certainly would have charged it if I were the DA or the AG in Minnesota.
BLITZER: Yeah, which is smart.
You know, Abby, Daunte Wright's mother says justice wouldn't be her son coming back home. So, a charge or a trial. These things only go so far, when you're the mother of a child like this? ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, there's nothing that brings your child back after what they've experienced as a family. And so many people and mothers and parents in this country are experiencing the same thing. I think what is so frustrating about these situations is the feeling that, and I think one of Daunte Wright family members said this a few days ago, if a lay person, "accidentally shot someone," they would probably be arrested at the scene and there's a feeling of frustration in the community, that there is a -- there seems to be always a different degree of justice or a different degree, to the way that the laws are enforced when it comes to police officers in situations like this.
You add on top of that Daunte Wright's mother believed that her son had been pulled over for either expired tags, or air fresheners hanging in the window. It's just a devastating situation to feel like a simple traffic stop can end with your child of 20, who's 20 years old, losing their life. It's some it's a story that I think obviously too many mothers have been experiencing and we've all been experiencing as a country for many years now.
BLITZER: Yeah, so heartbreaking.
You know, Shan, I want to turn to the Derek Chauvin trial in nearby Minneapolis only about 10 miles or so away, the defense rested after calling only seven witnesses over two days. Compare that to the prosecution calling 38 witnesses, how unusual is a disparity like that?
SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It's not unusual, Wolf, the prosecution bears the burden of proof. So they really have to build their case from the ground up. And the defense can either sit back and take some potshots at it, or they can affirmatively try to put on a case of their own and that's what they tried to do here. I mean, they got a little bit of a windfall today because there was a big mistake, frankly, on the part of the prosecution over this carbon monoxide issue, but not unusual at all, there to be a much heavier parade of witnesses and the size of the prosecution versus the defense.
[17:30:00]
BLITZER: Omar, you're there on the scene for us. You have -- you know, there could be a possible verdict coming in the Chauvin trial or, you know, next week while protests continue over the police killing of Daunte Wright. What are you hearing? What are you seeing from the protesters, from members of the community where you are?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the tension is higher than I think anyone thought it would be at this moment, because remember, we heard from both city officials here in Minneapolis and others that the most tense time was supposed to be next week while that jury was deliberating and while we were awaiting a verdict. The law enforcement officials here even had a threat level for the amount of people that you would actually see out on the street. And we went to that highest level a few days ago, when we were supposed to go again next week.
So, you feel that on the law enforcement side, you feel that on the community side, when you go out to these protests in Brooklyn Center. People are frustrated. They want their presence to be known. And as you see both of this meld into one another, you can imagine that this frustration is only going to grow because you remember, next week is that funeral for Daunte Wright. And there will be a lot of people demonstrating in support of that, while also watching very closely to see what comes out of this verdict here in Minneapolis.
BLITZER: Yes, the funeral scheduled for next Thursday. The closing arguments are on Monday. Elliott, what does each side, the prosecution and the defense, need to do in their respective closing arguments?
ELLIOTT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So the defense's -- you've seen what the defense is going to do, which is throw as much up there, the carbon monoxide, the heart disease, the crystal meth, the -- everything and just see what sticks. The prosecution really needs to just make it simple. If you remember in Jerry Blackwell's opening, he said he didn't get up and he didn't let up. It's just -- it was a pithy way to put it, which is that Chauvin put his knee on somebody, it was unreasonable, it violated the bounds of his training, and he knew what he was doing.
Make it simple and tell the jurors, trust your heart and trust your eyes what you saw. We all watch that 9.5-minute video jurors. You did too. Don't believe what you're hearing from the defense. And it's -- if you strip away all of those dozens and dozens of witnesses and just make it a matter of simple common sense and appeal to their sense of judgment as jurors, that's the way to get into their heads and frankly, their hearts on this.
BLITZER: Yes, it's going to be a huge week next week. All right guys, thank you very, very much.
Up next, Dr. Anthony Fauci accuses a Republican congressman of getting personal in a heated exchange over COVID restrictions. Plus, we have details of rather bizarre sexual misconduct allegations against New Mexico's female Governor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:37:09]
BLITZER: The family members of 20-year-old Daunte Wright are publicly sharing their grief over his death at the hands of a police officer in Brooklyn Center Minnesota. The veteran officer who shot and is charged with manslaughter made her first court appearance today.
Let's discuss with Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. He's the Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. This is also painful for all of us who are watching. But I want you to watch what Daunte Wright's father said today, very emotional. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUBREY WRIGHT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S FATHER: What's going on is unfair. These young black men being killed. Can you blame my son and anyone else from being scared of the police?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So, Congressman, what will it take to change that kind of fear?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, it will take, you know, transformational reform and change that is sustainable. And that's what the young people who put (ph) out into the streets of America, in the aftermath of the killing of George Floyd have correctly demanded that the killing has to stop, the abuse, the violence, their brutality, the excessive use of force, it just has to stop. Because it's been a phenomenon that so many communities have lived with, not month after month, but year after year, decade after decade, century into century. And so now it's got to be the moment where we get something done meaningfully to change the way that the police interact with communities of color.
BLITZER: You pass what's called the George Floyd Policing Act in the House of Representatives, how much faith you have, though, that the President, the Senate Majority Leader will be able to pass it in the Senate.
JEFFRIES: Well, Representative Karen Bass, who has led the charge in a fantastic way here in the House of Representatives, working with the Congressional Black Caucus, Speaker Pelosi, with extraordinary support throughout the great ideological diversity of the House Democratic spectrum. Here is working hard with Cory Booker and Tim Scott and others who have been handed the baton to try to get this done. And we've stressed the urgency and the importance of moving the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act which will change the way that policing is done in America.
I believe from a warrior mentality where far too often, too many officers view the communities they police as enemy combatants. We need to change that from a warrior mentality to a guardian mentality where you have a partnership between the police and the community that lifts up public safety. That's not to say that the overwhelming majority of police officers that I interact with back at home in Brooklyn and throughout New York City, they are hardworking public servants who are there to protect the community.
[17:40:13]
But we do know that police brutality, police violence, the police use of excessive force is a persistent and continuing problem, and it's got to stop.
BLITZER: Yes. And we got to do something about it. Your democratic colleague, Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib reacted to Daunte Wright's killing by tweeting this, and I'll put it up on the screen, "I am done with those who condone government funded murder. No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed". How do you respond to that?
JEFFRIES: Well, I believe we need transformational change. Again, that is sustainable. Not piecemeal change, transformational change. And that's what the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act is all about. We criminalize the chokehold and other types of strangulation tactics. We'll require a national use of force standard that emphasizes de- escalation tactics in the first instance and authorizes the use of deadly force only as a matter of last resort.
We reformed the doctrine of qualified immunity so we can have accountability on the civil rights side. And do so many other things such as institute a national database, so departments and cities and municipalities and towns can have visibility into the types of officers they may be hiring, so that those who have engaged in brutality or harassment, in prior instances, can't move from department to department. There's so many other provisions that are part of this comprehensive piece of legislation, the most progressive police reform bill ever passed, the House of Representatives. Now we have to get it done in the Senate and get it to President Biden's desk.
BLITZER: Yes, in contrast to Rashida Tlaib, you do believe in reform that it's possible to make things better. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, thanks so much for joining us.
JEFFRIES: Thank you so much, Wolf.
BLITZER: Just ahead, millions of Americans are getting a two-dose vaccination against COVID-19, but will that be enough? We have details of what experts are now saying about a possible need for a third dose. Plus, drama engulfing (ph) New Mexico's Governor. She denies allegations of sexual misconduct.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:46:29]
BLITZER: There was a rather heated exchange today between Dr. Anthony Fauci and Republican Congressman Jim Jordan, as the nation's top infectious disease expert testified before a House subcommittee hearing about the federal government's response to the pandemic. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN (-OH): What measure, what standard, what objective outcome do we have to race before Americans get their liberty and freedoms back?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: You know, you're indicating liberty and freedom. I look at it as a public health measure to prevent people from dying and going to the hospital (ph).
JORDAN: You don't think Americans liberties have been threatened the last year, Dr. Fauci? They've been assaulted. Their liberties have.
FAUCI: I don't look at this as a liberty thing, Congressman Jordan. We look at this --
JORDAN: Well, that's obvious.
FAUCI: -- as a public health thing.
JORDAN: But the --
FAUCI: I disagree with you on that --
JORDAN: Do you think the Constitution is suspended during a virus, during a pandemic. It's certainly not.
FAUCI: You're making this a personal thing and it isn't.
JORDAN: It's not a personal thing.
FAUCI: No, you are. That is exactly what you're doing. We're not talking about liberties, we're talking about a pandemic that has killed 560,000 Americans.
JORDAN: What number do we get our liberties back? Tell me the number. I don't want you to answer my question. The American people want Dr. Fauci to answer the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well --
JORDAN: What does it have to be --
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Your time expire, sir. If you need to respect the Chair and shut your mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Tough exchange over there. Let's discuss with Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist. She's also a CNN Medical Analyst. What goes through your mind, Dr. Gounder, when you hear an exchange like that up on Capitol Hill?
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Wolf, look, I think Congressman Jordan was really emotional. I think that when we are angry, when we are afraid, when we're in pain, sometimes we lash out. And I think, unfortunately, he lashed out, not just the messenger here, but also one of the very people who is leading us out of this mess. I think, to answer the question he was posing of Dr. Fauci, the answer is we do not know, we do not know what proportion of people need to be vaccinated to get the herd immunity. It's sort of like asking a five-year-old, why don't you yet know calculus. It takes time to study these things to learn about this virus, and it's been a real crash course over the past year.
The other wrench in all of this is the rise of these new variants. And if you have new variants emerging that are more infectious, that means that the percentage of people who need to be vaccinated to get to herd immunity will go up. But look, Congressman Jordan could be a part of the solution. We are seeing in surveys that about 20 percent of conservatives do not plan at all to get vaccinated and this is something he could really be reaching out to his constituents about stepping up to get vaccinated and get us all closer to safety, to health and to our freedoms.
BLITZER: And to some sense of normal. You know, yesterday I spoke with the vaccine expert Dr. Paul Offit, I'm sure you know him. He told me the CDC advisors made what he described as an unfortunate non-decision on the Johnson & Johnson single-dose vaccine which currently is paused as you know, over concern over blood clots for younger women. Do you agree with Dr. Offit?
GOUNDER: I do. I think it was, to be clear, very important that the CDC and the FDA decided to put a pause which was not a, you know, a -- pulling the vaccine off the market. They did not say you absolutely cannot give the vaccine, but it was really meant to be a warning to healthcare providers.
[17:50:04]
Look, we need to step back, look at the data, and that has been done. And what we are seeing is that these are extremely rare blood clots and only in younger women are we really seeing this increased risk. And so, I think it would make sense to continue a pause just in that group while we continue to study the risk of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in younger women, but to restart vaccination in the broader population.
BLITZER: Yes, out of the nearly 7 million Johnson & Johnson vaccines, there have been six younger women between the ages of 18 and 48 who have had blood clots. Sadly, one died, one's in critical condition, but that's still an infant testable number when you compare it to 7 million J&J doses.
Pfizer, meanwhile, the CEO, Albert Bourla, he now says that a third dose of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine is likely needed within 12 months of receiving the previous two doses. Why is the third booster shot from your perspective likely necessary?
GOUNDER: We are seeing the virus continued to mutate to evolve. And, in particular, the variant that arose in South Africa and the variant that arose in Brazil are resistant to the immunity you get from natural infection. And the vaccines are less powerful against those two variants than they are against the original strains. And so, if the virus continues to transmit from person to person, continues to mutate, it could evolve to the point where what you get from two doses in terms of immunity, may not be quite enough that you really need yet an additional dose.
BLITZER: Which would not be that difficult as someone who did get the first two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. If I have to get another one in a year, I get a flu shot every year, it's no big deal. I'll get another Pfizer vaccine shot in a year if that's going to help prevent me from coming down with COVID.
Thank you so much, Dr. Gounder. Always good to speak with you.
GOUNDER: My pleasure.
BLITZER: Thank you. We're learning new details, meanwhile, and another important story we're following, details of allegations of sexual misconduct against New Mexico's Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham. CNN's Brian Todd is here with the story for us. Brian, the allegations, I should say, are unusual, but so were the Governor's action afterwards. Tell us about that.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. The Governor is both denying the allegation vehemently and settling at the same time. This is a lady who was going places in the Democratic Party. This allegation now threatens to derail that trajectory.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): She's been considered a rising star in democratic politics. She's Chair of the Democratic Governors Association, was considered for a Cabinet post with the Biden administration. But tonight, New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham is battling a bizarre sexual misconduct allegation. Lujan Grisham and her gubernatorial campaign have settled with a former staffer James Hallinan, who claimed that the Governor, during a meeting with other staffers present, dumped water on his crotch and then grabbed his crotch through his clothes.
DANIEL CHACON, STATE GOVERNMENT REPORTER, SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN NEWSPAPER: To my knowledge, this is the first time that these types of allegations have been lodged against New Mexico's Governor.
TODD (voice-over): James Hallinan claims the incident happened during a meeting in 2018. He went public with the allegation the next year. Hallinan claimed he had trouble finding and keeping a job since he stopped working for the campaign. In an e-mail to CNN, a spokesman for Lujan Grisham said the Governor and her campaign, "strenuously deny that there is any merit or truth to Mr. Hallinan's claims, including his claims about difficulty finding or keeping work after the campaign".
No lawsuit was ever filed by Hallinan. But CNN has obtained campaign finance documents showing Governor Lujan Grisham and her campaign paid Hallinan more than $62,000 to date in five installments between November of last year and March of this year to settle.
ERIC DEZENHALL, CRISIS MANAGEMENT EXPERT: Writing a check is sometimes just the cost of doing business. It doesn't solve the problem, but it may make the problem a little bit less bad and that's the goal.
TODD (voice-over): Just last month in an interview with The Washington Post, Governor Lujan Grisham weighed in on the sexual misconduct allegations by several women against New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.
GOV. MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM (D-NM): We have to take seriously all these allegations. And I'm frankly, in that group of elected leaders that you believe the individual, you give real credit and credibility there, if you don't where we victimize brave men and women who come forward. TODD (voice-over): Her campaign spokesman tell CNN there are no changes to Governor Lujan Grisham's plans to run for reelection. How much could this scandal hurt her politically?
CHACON: What I can tell you, we're (ph) almost guarantee you is that the allegations in the settlement will resurface on the campaign trail as Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham seeks a second term in office next year. Already we've seen the Republican Governors Association use the settlement to try to discredit the Governor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: I asked Governor Lujan Grisham's campaign spokesman if there's nothing at all to these allegations, why pay over $62,000 to settle? He said rather than drag all of these out through civil litigation, she decided to settle so that she could concentrate on going back to work for the people of New Mexico during the pandemic. Wolf?
[17:55:14]
BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you very much. Brian Todd reporting.
Coming up, tensions in the Minneapolis area as the trial of Derek Chauvin moves closer towards the closing arguments. And officials are bracing right now for more protests over the fatal police shooting of 20-year-old Daunte Wright. We're going to talk about all of that with Attorney Ben Crump who's representing both the Wright family and George Floyd's family.
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