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The Situation Room

Interview with Benjamin Crump; Prosecution and Defense Rest in Chauvin Trial; Ex-Minnesota Officer in Court; Biden Says It is Time to Deescalate Tensions after Sanctioning Russia, Says He Told Putting He Could Have Gone Further; Officials in Chicago Release Video of Fatal Police Shooting of 13-Year-Old Adam Toledo. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 15, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

We're following another very tense night in the Minneapolis area, after the ex-police officer who shot and killed Daunte Wright was in court for the first time today. Kim Potter did not enter a plea to the second-degree manslaughter charge against her.

After four nights of protests over Wright's death, the city of Brooklyn Center is anticipating more anger on the streets tonight. Wright's mother is speaking out, demanding accountability and sharing her anguish over having to bury her son.

Also, tonight, police in Minneapolis and across the U.S., for that matter, are tightening security, preparing for potential unrest, as the Derek Chauvin murder trial gets closer to a potential verdict. Today, Chauvin declined to testify in his own defense about the death of George Floyd before both sides rested their cases. Closing arguments are now set for Monday.

This hour, I will talk with the lead lawyer for both the Floyd and Wright families, Ben Crump. He's standing by live.

But, first, let's go straight to Brooklyn Center, Minnesota.

CNN senior national correspondent Miguel Marquez is on the scene for us.

Miguel, so what's the situation there right now, after former Officer Kim Potter appeared in court today?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, police have added a lot of security around the police department here in Brooklyn Center.

Protesters are beginning to show up, all of this as the entire Wright family gathered in a call for justice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NAISHA WRIGHT, AUNT OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: My brother and my sister need this woman to be convicted.

MARQUEZ: Daunte Wright's aunt Naisha calling for the conviction of former Brooklyn Center police officer Kim Potter, who had her initial hearing today on a single charge of second-degree manslaughter.

N. WRIGHT: Can we get something? Manslaughter?

MARQUEZ: Ben Crump, the lawyer for Daunte Wright's family, says the 20-year-old father should never have been pulled over to begin with, should never have been threatened with a Taser, and doesn't believe that former Officer Potter, a 26-year veteran of the force, could mistake a handgun for a Taser.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: They come up with a way to justify over and over again the killing of black people in America.

MARQUEZ: Daunte Wright, he says, is only the latest victim of a justice system stacked against people of color.

CRUMP: And that's very important that marginalized minorities in America get their day in court.

MARQUEZ: Wright's family says that Kim Potter was charged quickly is a step forward but will never be enough.

KATIE WRIGHT, MOTHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: Unfortunately, there's never going to be justice for us. The justice would bring our son home to us, knocking on the door with his big smile, coming in the house.

MARQUEZ: Daunte Wright's father says his son's life was only beginning to take shape.

AUBREY WRIGHT, FATHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: My son was a good young man. He was a young man in the making. We were building my son up to be somebody. He was going to be somebody.

MARQUEZ: Speaking at the church where their son will be eulogized next week, speaking just before going to the funeral home to see their son's body for the first time since he was killed, his 14-year-old sister speaking about her brother.

DESTINY WRIGHT, SISTER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: My brother, he was the most delightful person I have ever met. Like, you can -- he was just -- he was everything.

MARQUEZ: The family coming together follows four nights of protest outside Brooklyn Center police station, where Kim Porter worked. Protesters say they will be back again and again until there is equality and justice for all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: So, that hearing for former Officer Potter, that was the first of a very long process before they go to court. And police do say that Mr. Wright was pulled over for expired tags.

Mr. Crump says that, even if they were expired, there are many expired tags because of the pandemic here. So, it is really the first brush of what we are going to see in a very long legal process, as this thing moves to court -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Miguel, thank you very much, Miguel Marquez reporting.

Now to the Derek Chauvin murder trial heading into closing arguments without jurors hearing any testimony from the defendant.

Our senior national correspondent, Sara Sidner, is joining us from the scene in Minneapolis.

Sara, some very dramatic moments today, as this trial clearly is winding down.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, one of the most dramatic is, this is the first time the jury has heard from Derek Chauvin in court in his own words, when he decided to plead the Fifth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEREK CHAUVIN, DEFENDANT: I will invoke my Fifth Amendment privilege today.

[18:05:02]

SIDNER (voice-over): For the first time since the start of the trial, former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin spoke in court.

PETER CAHILL, HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA, JUDGE: Do you feel that your decision not to testify is a voluntary one on your behalf?

CHAUVIN: Yes, it is.

SIDNER: He chose not to take the stand as a witness in his own defense, leading the defense to rest its case.

ERIC NELSON, ATTORNEY FOR DEREK CHAUVIN: Your Honor, at this time, the defense rests.

SIDNER: The prosecution then brought back it star medical witness to refute the idea brought up by yesterday's defense expert.

DR. DAVID FOWLER, FORMER MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: It is an extremely toxic gas.

SIDNER: That exhaust from the squad car's tailpipe possibly led to carbon monoxide poisoning of George Floyd.

JERRY BLACKWELL, MINNESOTA PROSECUTOR: Do you agree with that proposition that's highlighted there?

DR. MARTIN TOBIN, PULMONOLOGIST: No, I do not. It's simply wrong. SIDNER: The prosecution also attempted to introduce new lab result

evidence about carbon monoxide poisoning.

BLACKWELL: It was discovered yesterday by Dr. Baker. It would return a value for the carbon monoxide content and then will show whether or not that result is in the normal range or not.

SIDNER: The defense argued such a late evidence entry by the prosecution should lead to a mistrial.

NELSON: It's our position that these new test results should not go in front of the jury, first and foremost. And, second, if they were, I would be moving for a mistrial.

SIDNER: The judge agreed.

CAHILL: The late disclosure has prejudiced the defense. It's not going to be allowed.

SIDNER: A short time later, all witness testimony came to an end.

BLACKWELL: The state of Minnesota rests.

SIDNER: Now, after the prosecution called 38 witnesses to make their case that Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, when he was handcuffed in a prone position, caused his death and was an unjustified use of force.

DR. LINDSEY THOMAS, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: There's no evidence to suggest he would have died that night, except for the interactions with law enforcement.

SIDNER: And after the defense argued the use of force was by the book, with their expert witness testifying that the cause of death was inconclusive.

FOWLER: I would fall back to undetermined.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And we have now heard all of the evidence that we're going to hear. We have seen all of the witnesses and heard from all the witnesses that we're going to hear from, from both the prosecution and defense.

The judge says that there will be closing arguments on Monday and the jury could get the case the same day and start deliberating. He told them, by the way, to pack a bag, because they will be sequestered as long as they deliberate -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We will see how many days that takes.

All right, Sara, thank you very, very much.

I want to bring in CNN political commentator the attorney Bakari Sellers, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan. Bakari, the former officer who shot Daunte Wright was in court today. But one Wright family attorney says the charge of manslaughter is simply an initial step. What will accountability look like?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, at the end of the day, Wolf, I mean, to -- I don't mean to conflate the cases, but accountability is actually getting these officers convicted of the crimes they're charged with.

I know that we want a higher charge in the case, in Daunte's case. But that will come out with more and more facts. I mean, you're going to see why they pulled him over. Was the use of force actually necessary? Should they have been pulling guns in the first place is even a better question.

Did she involve herself when she should have involved herself? Did the other officers, were they going to be able to get it under control by de-escalating or not using force? I mean, all of these are questions that have to be answered. The glaring question, though, Wolf -- and this is why I understand the voluntary manslaughter -- or involuntary manslaughter charge -- excuse me.

I understand it, because of her tears. I understand it because she yelled, "Taser, Taser, Taser." But it doesn't sit right with me. It doesn't sit right with my spirit, to phrase something we say down South. It just doesn't, because how do you confuse a Taser with a gun on opposite sides, different colors, and different weight?

That's a question that has to be answered.

BLITZER: Well, what do you think, Paul? How complicated could this case potentially be?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a strange case, because, normally, in a murder case involving police officers, much like the Derek Chauvin case, you have a claim that there was a deliberate use of force and that that force was excess force, and it killed the suspect who the police were arresting.

Here, in this case, she, the officer, Potter, is claiming that it was an accidental discharge. And I will tell you, it's more complicated than it looks like, because one, did they have grounds to pull him over and stop him? But two, there have been reports that there were outstanding warrants.

And was Officer Potter told about those warrants. And what did she think in her mind that the warrants were for? Did she think she was in danger from him?

All of these things will be investigated. But, in the end, she obviously pulled the wrong weapon. And it was probably a culpable negligence situation, which would make it manslaughter, rather than murder.

[18:10:03]

BLITZER: Yes.

All right, let's talk a little bit about the Chauvin trial.

Bakari, Chauvin's defense, they rested today. Both sides, in fact, rested, calling -- the defense calling just seven witnesses over two days. The prosecution's list included 38 witnesses. Do you think that's unusual, the disparity like that?

SELLERS: No, it's not unusual.

And, usually, the federal government has a great deal -- Paul mentioned this a few days ago. It was a brilliant point. But, usually, the federal government has a great deal more resources than any criminal defense, usually, any criminal defense attorney and defendant.

The interesting part about this is, as poor as the case was that the defense put up, I'm kind of wondering to myself, why did they not just rest without putting a case up at all? I mean, the alternative theories that they attempted to pose were either ludicrous or thoroughly debunked by the prosecution.

In many of these cases, if you're not going to have your defendant testify -- and I have done this many times in court if my defendant has a criminal record or he's not going to testify. As soon as the prosecution wraps their case, you just rest, based on the holes you poked in their case, understanding that they haven't reached that reasonable doubt metric.

And I, for the life of me, don't know what the criminal defense attorney's strategy was, other than throwing things against the wall to see what sticks.

BLITZER: Well, Paul, the closing arguments for both sides begin on Monday.

So, what does each side need to accomplish?

CALLAN: Well, the prosecution team was a polished, well-prepared and professional team. They called the best experts in the country on the use of excess force, but also in the field of medicine, a pulmonologist, the Irishman with a lilting accent and a spectacular resume, Dr. Tobin, who we heard twice in the trial.

But we also heard from cardiologists, addiction specialists. We heard from pathologists, just a whole array of people, all united in saying that this was excessive force and that it caused the death of Mr. Floyd.

The defense, on the other hand, is going to have to establish that -- and this is the one thing they're going to try to say, is that George Floyd, because he was a drug user, a user of methamphetamine, and he had fentanyl in his system, and he had a weak heart, that he wasn't killed by excess force of Chauvin, he was killed by his own heart and his own personal problems. And I think they're going to be summing up on something that is --

kind of lingers in all of these police cases. And you always hear it, and that is, if he didn't surrender to the police -- if he had just surrendered to the police voluntarily, maybe he would still be alive. In other words, it's blaming the victim in the case.

And, by the way, it's a defense that works in a lot of police misconduct cases. So, it won't be said specifically, but that's the cloud that's going to hang over the case. Will the jury hang or will they reach a verdict after looking at that issue?

BLITZER: Yes, not guilty, you need all 12. Guilty, you need all 12. But if one or two decide there's a reasonable doubt, then there's a hung jury, and the prosecution has to decide whether to start from the beginning.

Sara, millions and millions of Americans protested George Floyd's death last year, as we all remember. You're there. And you're doing an amazing job for us, I must say.

How high are the stakes with this verdict, which should be coming forward later next week?

SIDNER: I can't stress this enough. They couldn't be higher. This is not just a case that had an impact here in Minnesota, and specifically in Minneapolis.

This is the case that, as you mentioned, was a reaction worldwide from people who saw the video and just could not square what happened with the officer and George Floyd.

I should also mention that I had a conversation not long ago today with Philonise Floyd, who has been in the court, inside the court watching some of this testimony and much of the dramatic testimony. And he talked about the fact that he is hoping, he is praying that the jury gives -- and these are his words -- the family justice.

And they see it in a way that their only bit of evidence that they care about, the only bit of evidence that they feel anyone needed to see is the video evidence taken by a 17-year-old bystander. Then you had the police body camera video evidence as well. And this family has been watching this video over and over and over again, but so has this city and the rest of the country and the world.

And so there will be a huge reaction, depending on what the jury decides -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

Just ahead, the lead lawyer for the families of Daunte Wright and George Floyd standing by to join us live with reaction to the late- breaking developments in both cases.

[18:15:02]

There you see him, Ben Crump. We will discuss right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're monitoring the situation in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, as the city braces for a fifth night of protest over the police killing of Daunte Wright.

The former officer who fired the fatal shot appearing in court for the first time today, as members of Wright's family question whether she will be convicted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

N. WRIGHT: Justice -- what is justice? Do we get to see Daunte smile? We don't get to see that. Do we get to hear Daunte joke again? We don't get to hear that.

Can we get a conviction?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we?

N. WRIGHT: Can we get something? Manslaughter?

You all see the difference. This is a Taser. This is a Taser. But, no, my nephew was killed with this, a Glock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're joined now by the lead lawyer for Daunte Wright's family and also the lead lawyer for George Floyd's family, by the way, Ben Crump.

[18:20:06]

Ben, thanks very much for joining us. I know these are very, very difficult, painful days.

You can hear the pain in her voice. Daunte Wright's mother says justice would be Daunte coming back home.

So, does the second-degree manslaughter charge fall short in the eyes of his family?

CRUMP: You know, as my great team of co-counsels and I sat with Daunte's family and talked with them, a very profound question came up, Wolf.

They said they don't know if Officer Potter has children, but they said, if a police officer killed her child in the exact same manner that she killed Daunte Wright, what would America demand? What would the charge be?

Wolf, so much of this is about the over policing of black people in America, the excessive use of force on marginalized minorities that we see different than what they use against white American citizens. So, this is about equal justice under the law.

And Minneapolis has become ground zero for this conversation, this most important conversation in America.

BLITZER: Daunte Wright's funeral, of course, as you well know, will happen a week from today, next Thursday.

What can you tell us about how his loved ones will remember him?

CRUMP: Well, you know, the one thing that was so heartening was, when his -- the mother of his child, Chyna, talked about when Daunte Jr. was born, he was born premature. And he was very, very small. They did not think he was going to make it.

And Daunte stayed at the hospital every night for weeks. And she said he would pray and just stay there and say: "He's going to make it. We're going to have a healthy son. We're going to have a wonderful son. I'm his daddy. I'm going to make sure of it."

And now Daunte Jr., this young black child, will have to grow up in America without a father. You add that to all the odds that were stacked against young black men, and it's just not fair. As his mother said, regardless of what happens, there's no justice for her, there's no justice for them, because Daunte is never coming back.

And it just seems as if everyone wants to give consideration to the police officer and say, oh, she just made a mistake. They are looking at what they lost, compared to everybody saying, have compassion for her. And that doesn't seem fair.

BLITZER: Let's turn to the Derek Chauvin trial. It's only about 10 miles or so away from Brooklyn Center.

The defense, as you know, rested its case today, after calling just seven witnesses after over two days, compared, as I keep pointing out, the prosecution's decision to call 38 witnesses.

What, if anything, does that tell you?

CRUMP: Well, I think that the defense, it's very hard, because the video tells us that Officer Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd from an overdose of excessive force, or, as Philonise, his brother, says, an overdose of knee on the neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds.

And so I think it was probably challenging and difficult for them to find people who would stand in the defense of what we witnessed on that video. And so I do believe the prosecution has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt and that Derek Chauvin should be held criminally liable, Wolf Blitzer, for killing George Floyd.

BLITZER: As you know, closing arguments will begin on Monday. And then it goes to the jury. We don't know how long. It could take a few hours, could take a few days, maybe could take a few weeks. We have no idea.

What do you anticipate? CRUMP: Well, I anticipate that the jury will follow the law and follow

the instructions of the court and return a fair and impartial verdict based on the evidence.

[18:25:05]

And, hopefully, Wolf, they will give a measure of justice to George Floyd's family that will set a precedence that black people and marginalized minorities, no matter what race they are, can expect equal justice.

That's hopefully the new precedence. And with Daunte Wright, that's what we want, is equal justice. They had a case in Minneapolis where a white woman, Justine Damond, was killed by an officer who was of African descent.

And it has long been believed by the black community, as my co-counsel attorney Storms said, if a black officer killed a white person, then they would throw the book at them and they would be held fully accountable. And, in that situation, it was a dark alley. It was very, very debatable whether he should have been charged at all.

But the jury came back and convicted him of third-degree murder. And he was sentenced to 12-and-a-half years. Now, he said he didn't mean to, just like they said Officer Potter did. But it seems that we're comparing apples to apples.

What will the jury do in the case of Officer Potter for killing Daunte Wright? And that, hopefully, as well will be a precedence.

BLITZER: Yes, we will see what happens in both of these cases.

Ben Crump, thanks, as usual, for joining us.

CRUMP: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up: President Biden says he doesn't want to escalate tensions with Russia, even as he hits Moscow with tough new sanctions.

And was the top House Republican warned about Congressman Matt Gaetz before allegations of sexual misconduct actually surfaced?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: President Biden says he wants to turn down heat after hitting Russia with strict new sanctions. He spoke about U.S. relations with Moscow just a little while ago, saying he warned Vladimir Putin he could have ordered even tougher punishment.

Let's go to our Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, the president is attempting to sort of strike a balance as he tries to hold Russia accountable.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he said he could have gone tougher, but he didn't. And he says that something he made clear in that call that he had with the Russian president a few days ago. Of course, these are the first direct actions you've actually seen the Biden administration take against Russia in response to those allegations of meddling in the election and, of course, that recent cyber attack that we saw hit the U.S. government. And President Biden himself addressed all of this tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Hello folks.

COLLINS (voice over): Tonight, President Biden is vowing to hold Russia accountable after four years of slaps on the wrist by President Trump.

BIDEN: I was clear with President Putin. If Russia continues to interfere with our democracy, I'm prepared to take further actions to respond.

COLLINS: The president sanctioning Russia for conducting a major hacking operation against the U.S. and attempting to influence the presidential election.

BIDEN: My bottom line is this, where there is an interest in the United States to work with Russia, we should and we will. If Russia seeks to violate the interests of the United States, we will respond.

COLLINS: In total, the U.S. sanctioned 32 Russian entities and individuals, expelled ten Russian diplomats and officially blamed Russia for the SolarWinds cyberattack on federal agencies and the nation's biggest companies.

The sanctions also revealed for the first time that a Russian agent who received internal polling data from the Trump campaign passed it along to Russian intelligence services in 2016. Konstantin Kilimnik was sanctioned today for attempting to help influence the 2020 election on Russia's behalf. Biden isn't punishing Russia for allegedly putting bounties on U.S. soldiers after officials said they only have low to moderate confidence in the intelligence.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's challenging to gather this intelligence and this data. This information really puts the burden on Russia.

COLLINS: On the campaign trail, Biden criticized former President Trump for not taking action on those same alleged bounties.

BIDEN: He's Putin's puppy. He's still refused that he even says anything to Putin about the bounty on the heads of American soldiers.

COLLINS: National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan said President Biden wanted to take action against Russia without escalating tensions.

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: His goal is to provide a significant and credible response, but not to escalate the situation. He believes that the United States and Russia can have a stable and predictable relationship.

COLLINS: The Kremlin has yet to respond to Biden's invitation for a face-to-face meeting.

PSAKI: The invitation remains open, and we believe it would be a good step forward.

COLLINS: U.S. officials are also keeping an eye on a massive buildup of Russian military on the Ukraine border near the Crimean Peninsula that Russia illegally invaded in 2014.

BIDEN: I strongly urged him to refrain from military action. Now is the time to deescalate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on camera): And Wolf, in those remarks at the White House tonight, you saw President Biden repeat that invitation to meet President Putin in Europe this summer for a summit, but that is an invitation that the Kremlin has not yet responded to. And they also haven't responded to these sanctions that were announced earlier this morning.

[18:35:04]

And so the White House still waiting to see what they will do, and if, they will retaliate.

BLITZER: Sensitive moment, indeed. Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much.

Joining us now, the former homeland security secretary, the former general counsel at the Department of Defense, Jeh Johnson. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us.

You heard President Biden say he wants a stable, predictable relationship with Russia. Do you believe these actions that he introduced today bring the U.S. closer to that goal of stability?

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER SECRETARY, HOMELAND SECURITY: Wolf, I believe that the actions announced today were entirely appropriate and warranted, directed against the Putin regime. My belief and my expectation and hope is that when they discuss this in the situation room of the White House, they also had an intelligence assessment from our intelligence community about the likely reaction from the Russian government to these measures, but they were entirely warranted.

Experience shows, Wolf, that there is no complete line of defense against a cyberattack by a nation state. You can do a lot of things to defend cyber security, but when you're dealing with a powerful nation state actor, like the Russian government, you have to also put in place sanctions and deterrents to make the bad behavior cost prohibitive.

I believe that was -- that today's announcement is very much a step in the right direction. It was long overdue. It's also true and history shows, Wolf, that early on in a presidency, our adversaries or enemies will often test us, they'll often test the new president to see how much they can get away with. The most prominent example of that obviously was the placement in Cuba of offensive weapons capable of striking the United States by Khrushchev early on in John F. Kennedy's presidency. He was testing him. And the world knows how we responded.

So President Biden obviously knows the lessons of history and he knows that early on in a presidency, it's important to demonstrate toughness and resolve in the face of aggression like this.

BLITZER: Yes, that's certainly what President Biden did today. He responded. But he also said that he told Vladimir Putin in the phone conversation that they had, that he thinks they should actually communicate directly, and President Biden proposed holding a summit this summer somewhere in Europe with Putin. Do you think that meeting, first of all, is likely? Would it be productive?

JOHNSON: I don't believe that today's announcement and a continued dialogue are inconsistent in any way. President Biden, the Biden administration has made clear how we regard the prior actions and has made clear that we will respond aggressively. That does not foreclose the prospect of further communications at the upper most levels of government provided that the other side is willing to have them. I think that is a prudent step and it's a prudent offer.

BLITZER: Former President Trump, as you well know, and as all of us remember, he often sought to undermine the U.S. intelligence agencies and their conclusions. Does the fact that the U.S. government is now a unified front when it comes to intelligence? Does that make a difference when confronting Russia?

JOHNSON: Very much so. And something that should not be overlooked here, for four years, the leaders of our intelligence community during the Trump presidency were constantly looking over their shoulder, afraid of saying something that was going to anger the boss, that was contrary to what the boss wanted to believe.

The hearings today on Capitol Hill by our intelligence community leaders were a refreshing reminder that the intelligence community is supposed to call it like they see it, without fear of retribution from their political masters. Avril Haines and the others who testified inspire confidence and should inspire confidence in all of us in this country and should show resolve to our adversaries to our competitors and our enemies. I think we are in a much better place in terms of the credibility of our intelligence community these days.

BLITZER: Former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead, we're going to give you a first look at newly released video just out of Chicago, a video showing a fatal police shooting of a 13-year-old.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:40:00]

BLITZER: Right now, we have very, very disturbing breaking news coming out of Chicago, a newly released video of fatal police shooting involving a 13-year-old boy. Our National Correspondent Ryan Young is on the scene for us following the story. Ryan, the video is out, very disturbing. Break it down for us.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. This is very tough video to watch. I watched it hours ago. And in this video, you have to realize that police are responding to a call of shots fired. There's a shot spotter technology all throughout the city where acoustically they measure for gun shots. Eight shots were heard by a shot spotter. The video was sent to a patrol car. The officer is responding to the idea of someone firing shots in a neighborhood.

[18:45:01]

And what happens next is very disturbing. Let's not forget this is a 13-year-old who ends up being shot by a police officer.

Take a look for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop! Stop! Stop right (EXPLETIVE DELETED) now. Show me your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hands. Stop it, stop it!

(GUNSHOT)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So, obviously, some very tough video to see.

Now, the Chicago police department says you really have to go frame by frame to see what they say was a gun in the right hand of 13-year-old Adam Toledo. They say he had that gun in his hand after having it passed off to him by a 21-year-old man who's been arrested. After that point, the officer says that he thought when the young man was turned that he had to open fire.

So, obviously, there was a reaction from the family attorney, who's very upset. They have a different accounting for what happened. In fact, it was a very fiery news conference late this afternoon. Take a listen that family attorney just about an hour ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADEENA WEISS-ORTIZ, LAWYER FOR THE FAMILY OF ADAM TOLEDO: Those videos speak for themselves. Adam during his last second of life did not have a gun in his hand. The officer screamed at him, show me your hands. Adam complied, turned around, his hands were empty when he was shot in the chest at the hands of the officer.

He did not have a gun in his hand, contrary to the reports made earlier today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Wolf, this is devastating because obviously the city of Chicago deals with a lot of gun violence. There's often a stat that's talked about that, that Chicago confiscates more guns than Los Angeles and New York combined. The officer responded and they said the shooting and turning happened in less than two seconds. So, you see the split- second decision made there by the officer.

Those freeze frames that are on the Chicago police website show what they believe is that the gun in his hand. There was a gun recovered on the scene. You hear the family attorney saying he dropped the gun before he was shot. Another thing, that officer responded very quickly to render aid to the 13-year-old after shooting him that one time in the chest.

Obviously, there's a lot of tension. We felt that throughout the day, especially with the mayor giving an impassioned speech of how we need to do a better job with gun violence in this city Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Ryan, I want you to stay with us. I also want to bring back CNN political commentator, the attorney Bakari Sellers, and CNN legal analyst, Paul Callan.

I want to play the video for our viewers to see one more time. Let's watch it. It's very disturbing. Let's watch it and then we'll assess.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop! Stop! Stop right (EXPLETIVE DELETED) now. Show me your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hands. Stop it, stop it!

(GUNSHOT)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: There you see a gun on the ground over there.

Bakari, obviously difficult to watch. Painful to think a little 13- year-old boy was shot in the process. What's your initial reaction to when you watch that video?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, it's sad. It's exhausting having to go through this again. You know, talking off air, I wish we were here under different circumstances.

There's no doubt that there is a problem in Chicago. There is no doubt that the guns that flow into Chicago from Indiana is a problem and has been a problem for a long time. Here again, you have law enforcement, and you give a command. It's a split-second decision and it's the wrong decision.

But, Wolf, let me just highlight something else. I know you're moving onto Paul and others, but this is a perpetual state of grieving that we have in these black and brown communities, these communities that are just being ravaged by this state-sanctioned violence. To have a 13-year-old boy that could be any one of our children, a boy in the truest sense of the term be killed like this, there's really no excuse for it.

BLITZER: And you look at that picture, it's so heartbreaking to think about that 13-year-old who was shot and killed.

And, Paul, officers were responding to what's called a shot fired call.

[18:50:01]

What's your reaction when you see how quickly this fatal shooting of this 13-year-old unfolded?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Wolf, we're getting a look at what the tragedy that goes on in a lot of dark alleys I think in big cities across America. It used to be there was no video. So, it was the cop's word and against the suspect if he survived. Here, we see it on video.

This one is going to be a real tough case, I'll tell you. It's a tragedy because a 13-year-old was involved. But if he had a gun in his hand and he was starting to turn toward the officer, the law says in Illinois that the officer had the right to use deadly physical force.

Now, on the other hand, if the 13-year-old had dropped the gun to the ground the use of deadly force would be illegal in Illinois and every place else in the United States and in fact the officer could be charged with a crime.

And it's that split-second that's going to decide how this case is handled by the prosecutor, ultimately. It's a tough case to handle and investigate.

BLITZER: Certainly is. You know, Bakari, the police say the boy had a gun in his hand. The family's lawyer says he had nothing in his hand at the time he was shot. Clearly there was no attempt to slow this down or deescalate, was there?

SELLERS: No. I mean, I -- and Paul's absolutely right on the law but what we see is frame by frame and then, Wolf, and Ryan may add clarity on this, but a prosecutor stood up today in open court and stated is this young boy had a gun in his hand. It's not just the act but the cover up that goes along with it.

This puts me in the immediate mind frame of Rahm Emanuel completely covering up the death during his election of Laquan McDonald. This happens in Chicago way too much.

And, you know, thank God for body cameras. But that's just one step. Body cameras are covering after you already kill us. The point we have to get to is stop killing us. That is -- that is the point. And the exhaustion is because only in America can you be in a middle

of a trial and in closing arguments for a cop killing a black man with a knee on his neck, only to be interrupted by a cop accidentally killing another black man only to be interrupted by a 13-year-old boy in an ally turning with no gun in his hand and being shot.

Should the boy have been out there? No. Should there be guns in the streets of Chicago? No. But at end of the day, this cop should not have shot this young boy.

BLITZER: I want to bring back the former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, who's been watching all of this unfold.

Very hard to watch but let me get your reaction to what we're seeing. It's so painful to think of that 13-year-old boy shot and killed.

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Wolf, that was the first time I saw that video. I have two thoughts, one, which I said before there are simply far too many gun carriers in this country who don't know how to respond in a crisis situation, in a tense moment. Training, training, training.

I know this because the Department of Homeland Security is the largest department of federal gun carriers, civilian in our national department, and you cannot train enough someone with a gun and badge how to respond in a crisis. And there's far too many instances where officers lose their head.

We saw this in Chicago now. We saw this in Brooklyn Center, with the mistake of the weapon for the Taser. Too many police officers don't know how to deal in a crisis.

The other point made a moment ago, where would we be in assessing this and bringing this to light if not for the body cameras, if civilians didn't walk around with these. The George Floyd case wouldn't have been prosecuted with it not been for a camera. This Chicago incident would not come to light where it were not been -- had it not been for a camera.

I strongly suspect if there had been no camera on George Floyd, it would have been a police report that said police officer put his knee on his back, he had a heart condition, he died unfortunately, and it would have been tucked away in a file. And so, we're getting a raw look at something that's not new.

What is new is that America sees it. But use of excessive force directed against communities and individuals of color is not new. And let's hope that America finally responds to this and rises up, white and black. This is not just a black problem. This is an American problem. Let's hope we all rise up and insist on change.

[18:55:02]

BLITZER: Yeah. So, it is an American problem. We got to do something about it. You and I have known each other a while and earlier this week, we

spoke after that other very disturbing video came out of a police stop of a U.S. army active duty in Virginia it hit home for you and me but why do we keep seeing these incidents over and over and over again?

JOHNSON: Wolf, I'm a student of history and I believe that a lot of what we see directed against people of color, directed against black men is a legacy from the time when black people in this country were not regarded as human beings.

There's a Supreme Court decision called Dred Scott that said that a slave is not a person, is not a citizen. And I believe we are still wrestling with the legacy of a time in our country when people of color were not regarded as whole human beings. You look at the George Floyd video over and over, it looks as if it's not a peace officer dealing with a civilian in the community. It's as if he is the hunter and George Floyd is the prey and he's snuffing his life out.

And so, we still wrestle with this problem. And some day, we're going to be able to get past this, but this has to be on our national agenda, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yeah, it certainly does. And as I kept saying to you and to Bakari, to Paul, everybody else, we got to stop meeting around these occasions that's happening way, way too frequently, and as you correctly point out because of the cellphone, the cameras, and body cameras. We're seeing it but it's been going on for decades, for years and years and years. We simply didn't see it and the result is so painful to watch.

Secretary, thank you so much for joining us. Much more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally, tonight, we share more stories of people who died from the coronavirus.

Everett "Boone" Pike of Kentucky was 90 years old. He was a retired officer who patrolled the same beat for 40 years and was considered a role model for other officers. His daughter Denise says he was a family man who brought champagne or cigars to the birth of each of his nearly 50 grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Frances Durham Watkins was 88, also from Kentucky. After high school, she worked her way up to sales representative in a male-dominated industry. Her daughter Kaye says her mother was a true success story who taught her generosity and kindness.

May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.