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The Situation Room

Chicago Police Shooting; Closing Arguments Ahead in Chauvin Trial; Indianapolis Mass Shooting; Biden Says, Mass Shooting Epidemic in U.S. a National Embarrassment; White House Backtracks on Refugee Decision, Says Biden Will Announce New Increased Cap by May 15; Renewed Outrage Over Gun Violence in U.S. After At Least 45 Mass Shootings In One Month. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 16, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The 19-year-old gunman has been identified as a former employee at the FedEx facility in Indianapolis, where he opened fire and then apparently killed himself.

The FBI confirms the suspect's mother had actually warned authorities last year of his potential for violence, said that he might try to act out to get himself killed by police.

We're also following growing tensions over the fatal police shootings of African American men across the United States. Chicago's mayor is urging calm just ahead of expected protests over the killing of a 13- year-old boy after police body camera video of the shooting was released.

And, in Minnesota, the National Guard is now on alert just ahead of a likely sixth night of protests over the police shooting of Daunte Wright, as well as the final outcome of Derek Chauvin's murder trial. Jurors could decide the former police officer's fate in the death of George Floyd as soon as next week.

Lots of tension going on.

First, let's go to CNN's senior national correspondent Miguel Marquez.

He's on the ground in Indianapolis right now.

Miguel, we know more about the gunman right now. We know more about the chaos at the crime scene as well.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we certainly do.

This is an individual whose mother had called in last October -- last March a -- to police that she was concerned he was going to try to commit suicide by cop. At the time, there was a short investigation. They took a gun away from him, a shotgun away from him. Now police trying to figure out where he got the gun that killed people here and why did last night's deadly rampage happen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ (voice-over): In less than a couple of minutes.

CRAIG MCCARTT, INDIANAPOLIS METROPOLITAN DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF: He just appeared to randomly start shooting.

MARQUEZ: Eight more lives lost in America's latest mass shooting.

JEREMIAH MILLER, WITNESS: He was firing in the open. And I immediately ducked down and got scared. And my friend's mother, he came -- she came in and told us to get inside the car.

TIMOTHY BOILLAT, WITNESS: We heard three more shots. And then my buddy Levi (ph) saw someone running out of the building, and then more shots went off.

MARQUEZ: The suspect, officers say, has been identified as 19-year- old Brandon Hole, a former employee at this FedEx. They say Hole entered the sprawling facility near the Indianapolis Airport just after 11:00 p.m. last night. After opening fire in the parking lot, killing four, he killed another four inside, seven more injured in the rampage.

MCCARTT: He got out of his car and pretty quickly started some random shooting outside the facility. There was no confrontation with anyone that was there. There was no disturbance. There was no argument.

MARQUEZ: Police say he used at least one rifle. They responded within minutes to what they described as a chaotic crime scene, but the gunman had already killed himself inside the building.

BOILLAT: I'm a little -- I'm a little a little overwhelmed.

MARQUEZ: The FBI is assisting local police in searching Hole's home and car. CNN has learned he was known to federal and local officials, after a family member reached out to them, warning of a potential for violence.

MCCARTT: We have recently identified him, so now the work really begins trying the establish some of that and see if we can figure out some sort of motive in this, but we don't have that right now.

MARQUEZ: Family members of victims and those who worked at the facility gather at a nearby hotel as police work to identify the victims, the facility the second largest hub in FedEx's global America with more than 4,500 employees.

In a statement, FedEx said the company is "deeply shocked and saddened by the loss of our team members."

MAYOR JOE HOGSETT (D), INDIANAPOLIS: Nothing we learn can heal the wounds of those who escaped with their lives, but who will now bear the scars and endure the memories of this horrific crime.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MARQUEZ: So, now, when his mother called police back in March of

2020, it tipped off something to the FBI. Something they saw in there caused the police here in Indianapolis to call the FBI.

They interviewed him the next month, April of 2020. They said, in that -- in their investigation, they found no sign of racial motivation or violent extremism. And the case was essentially closed. But they kept a shotgun, but it will still raise the question, why? How did he get the gun?

The police will not say whether it was illegally obtained or not and what was the motivation for entering this building and killing so many people -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, I'm sure we will get answers fairly soon to all those questions.

Miguel, thank you very, very much.

Let's go to Chicago right now, where there are deep concerns of unrest after the police shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, the confrontation captured on very disturbing police body camera video that is now public.

CNN's Martin Savidge is on the scene for us in Chicago.

Martin, so what's happening where you are on the ground right now?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, emotions continue to run high in the city of Chicago after the release of that bodycam video that showed the death of that 13-year-old.

[18:05:03]

There were a number of protests that took place last night. They were peaceful. The mayor and the family of Adam Toledo continues to ask that people express themselves peacefully, another demonstration about to get under way here.

The demand in all of them to say they want to see justice done.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): This is the moment when police killed 13-year- old Adam Toledo, newly released body camera video showing the officer, identified as Eric Stillman, firing one shot as Toledo raised his hands in the air.

Police say this image shows Toledo was holding a gun before Stillman shot him. And they say that gun was found nearby after the shooting. But look closer. When Toledo raised his hands, he did not appear to be holding anything.

Police say that Toledo was holding the gun less than a second before he raised his hands. The family's attorney says they won't know if what Toledo had in his hands was a gun until she has the video forensically analyzed but says it doesn't change what happened.

ADEENA WEISS ORTIZ, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF ADAM TOLEDO: That child complied. Adam complied with the officer's request, dropped the gun, turned around. The officer saw his hands were up and pulled the trigger.

SAVIDGE: Stillman's lawyer says the officer was left with no other option and that he feels horrible about the outcome, but he was well within his justification of using deadly force.

JOHN CATANZARA, CHICAGO FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: That officer had eight-tenths of a second to determine if that weapon was still in his hand or not. The officer does not have to wait to be shot at or shot in order to respond and defend himself.

SAVIDGE: Police say that they were responding to alerts of shots fired in the early morning hours of March 29. Surveillance video appears to show someone shooting toward a car. The new bodycam video shows the chase that ensued moments after officers arrived on the scene.

Prosecutors are now charging a 21-year-old with Toledo at the beginning of the encounter. They say the gun recovered at the scene of Toledo's killing matched the shell casings found at the first location where the car was fired on, and that Toledo's hands and gloves dropped by the older suspect tested positive for gunshot residue.

PROTESTER: Justice for Adam!

SAVIDGE: With the city of Chicago on edge, the mayor calling for calm and pledging institutional reform.

MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D), CHICAGO: Simply put, we failed Adam. And we cannot afford to fail one more young person in our city. We must do more to help children like Adam before they end up in encounters like this one.

SAVIDGE: The White House today called the new video chilling.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Too often in this country, law enforcement uses unnecessary force, too often resulting in the death of black and brown Americans. The president again has repeatedly said that he believes we need police reform.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Compiling the tragedy, Wolf, the family of Adam Toledo reportedly waited two-and-a-half days before they were even notified by authorities.

Part of that is the reason, Adam, according to authorities, didn't have any I.D. on him, and the other adult who was arrested at the same time gave a wrong name. Meanwhile, the protests continue -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Tense situation in Chicago right now.

My heart is breaking when you see that little face of that 13-year-old boy now dead. So, so sad.

Martin, thank you very much for that report.

I want to bring in CNN legal analyst, the criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson, and Ron Johnson, a veteran of the Missouri State Highway Patrol who worked to ease tensions during the 2014 protests in Ferguson.

Captain Johnson, what's your response to what we just saw in that video, the shooting of this 13-year-old, Adam Toledo?

RON JOHNSON, FORMER MISSOURI HIGHWAY STATE PATROL CAPTAIN: I'd say my heart goes out to his family, a young man with a future ahead of him.

But, like his attorney said, we need to just see how this analyzes out. But it doesn't change anything. It's still a 13-year-old boy. And we have to make sure, in law enforcement, that we're doing the best that we can and our training is the best to make sure that these incidents, these unfortunate incidents do not happen.

BLITZER: You know, Joey, a lawyer -- you heard the lawyer for Toledo's family saying that his hands were empty when he was shot. He never had a chance, she says, to comply with the police officer's orders.

Does the evidence you have seen so far support those assertions? What does it mean for this case?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So let me address that, Wolf. Good to be with you.

Look, here's the reality. We, as lawyers, make analogies and distinctions, right? We look at other cases. We see if they're similar and different. This obviously is tragic. It's heartbreaking. It crushes you.

This is not George Floyd, where you have an instance where an officer is on someone, you have excessive force, you're riding on their neck for an extended period of time when they're in control, and, clearly, you have engaged in criminal behavior.

This is not Daunte Wright, wherein you have an instance where an officer is looking for a Taser, puts a gun, shoots it. That's gross negligence. That's also criminal.

[18:10:00]

Here, you have a much closer question. And I will tell you how prosecutors will analyze it. They're not analyzing it with respect to whether he had a gun in his hand at the time. They're analyzing it with respect, Wolf, to whether or not there was a threat, there was a perceived threat.

Was the perception of that threat reasonable? Was the force used in response to that threat proportionate? And so what they will do is, they will assess whether or not -- how did they get to the scene? They had reports that there was a gun. That informs their judgment.

They're chasing after someone. And in chasing after that someone, telling them to stop multiple times, the person turns around. They're told to drop it, right? Apparently, they do. The officer doesn't have a moment to react and shoot. That's the wrong decision. That doesn't mean it's a criminal decision.

So, that's -- that will be how it's assessed. It's a much closer question. And based upon the facts right there, there's an argument as to the perceived threat being reasonable and the response being reasonable.

Gut-wrenching, as a former prosecutor, I can tell you, right? It's horrible, right, that someone's dead. But it's a much closer question. And it doesn't cry out immediately to a crime being committed by law enforcement.

BLITZER: Because, Captain Johnson, the speed at which all this took place, this incident, is really striking. They say less than one second passed from when the 13-year-old is seen holding a gun to when he is shot by police, and with his hands up in the air.

Is that enough time to really assess the situation?

JOHNSON: It's not. And those are the most challenging times for law enforcement.

And so those are split-second decisions. And that's why we want officers with strong character, the top training that they can have.

I listened to an officer yesterday from Chicago and said that they have got great training. And so, like Joey said, I think we just -- it's tragic, and we just have to see how it plays out once all the evidence is analyzed.

BLITZER: So, Joey, when you see the video evidence that we have all now seen, how do you reconstruct exactly what happened here? Just how important is it to understand the event down to the second by second?

JACKSON: It means everything.

And in speaking about that, Wolf, I think it's time perhaps that you evaluate the tactics, right? If you're going to ask someone to drop a weapon, if you're going to ask them to comply, you have to be in a position as a law enforcement officer to give them the opportunity to do that.

Could the officer have taken cover? Should he have taken cover? Could he have concealed himself? Could he have told the victim, this little boy, to drop to the ground? Those are things that I think need to be assessed moving forward, so that we can have law enforcement that is not making decisions like this that are really life-taking.

But, to your question, the first analysis will be, why were you there? That informs an officer's judgment and gets them into a heightened state of alertness, right? This is not responding to a counterfeit $20 bill. This is shots fired. Oh, my goodness.

So, now you're in the state of alertness. Now you're looking to assess, is there a gun? Who has the gun? What's the person with the gun doing? I'm chasing him down the alley. I'm giving him commands to stop. Is there a gun in his hand? Do I perceive there's a weapon in his hand? When he spins, is he spinning to put up his hands, or is he spinning to shoot me?

All of those things happen, and they happen so quickly, that it becomes problematic if you're a prosecutor to piece together the tools that you need to move forward in a way that says you're guilty and you acted irresponsibly. Much closer question here than the other cases that we have been analyzing and talking about.

BLITZER: Yes, but it's still so heartbreaking to think about that little 13-year-old boy shot and now dead.

Joey, Ron, guys, thank you very, very much.

We're also monitoring the situation right now in Brooklyn Center Minnesota, just outside of Minneapolis, after nearly a week of protest over 20-year-old Daunte Wright's killings by police.

And we will also take a closer look to the closing arguments coming up in Derek Chauvin's murder trial and the potential for a verdict next week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:37]

BLITZER: All eyes are on Minnesota, amid dead new fears of unrest, as two former police officers face potential punishment for the deaths of African-American men.

Kim Potter now charged with second-degree manslaughter in the death of Daunte Wright. And Derek Chauvin nearing a potential verdict on murder charges in the death of George Floyd.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Brooklyn Center for us, where Wright was killed.

Omar, after a week of protests, what's the latest? What's happening there tonight?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as we head into this weekend, we wade further into a very tense time here in the Minneapolis area.

We're outside the Brooklyn Center Police Department, as you can see fortified fencing behind me here, with air fresheners, of course, signifying what Daunte Wright's mother said he was pulled over for. And it's also been the site of protests every single night since Daunte Smith (sic) was shot and killed by former Brooklyn Center police officer Kim Potter on Sunday. Now, she's been charged with second-degree manslaughter, but is out on bail. And as raw as the emotions have been for protesters here, it's even more so for the family of Wright, who feel those charges don't go far enough and that they want the full weight of the justice system to come down on that officer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE WRIGHT, MOTHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: Second-degree manslaughter is not OK. I'm not OK with that. That's not right. She murdered my son. My son is never going to come home.

She gets to sit on a police pension right now, while my son is going to be buried in a few days. And that's not OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And, of course, what she means by that is, the acting city manager says Potter is still entitled to benefits, though the city won't pay in any way for her legal funds.

And then, of course, the funeral for Daunte Wright is set for this coming Thursday.

BLITZER: The closing arguments, Omar, are next week. They're scheduled to begin on Monday in the Derek Chauvin trial.

What can we expect?

JIMENEZ: Well, when we see these closing arguments, it's going to be up to each side, the prosecution and the defense, to tie together what has been a very -- a trial filled with emotion and expertise.

And they need to tie it together in a way that benefits their side for these jurors. And these jurors were told, pack a bag, because they will be sequestered once these closing arguments play out over the course of Monday. And they won't come back into the regular world until they do so with a verdict.

[18:20:08]

And that could take an hour, a day. Could take even longer. And so that's really the tense time where we are going to be watching what is going to happen. And, of course, Derek Chauvin never testified in front of a jury over the course of this. He had an opportunity to earlier this week, but officially pleaded the Fifth Amendment.

And then, of course, once these closing arguments go through, his fate will lie in the hands of a dozen jurors.

BLITZER: I want you to stand by, Omar. You're going to be back with us in a little bit.

But right now, I want to talk with Jeffrey Storms, an attorney who represents the families of both Daunte Wright and George Floyd.

Jeff, thanks so much for joining us.

I know George Floyd's family has been closely following all the developments in the Chauvin trial. How have you prepared them for what we will hear next week, specifically during the defense's closing arguments?

JEFF STORMS, ATTORNEY FOR FLOYD AND WRIGHT FAMILIES: Well, Wolf, I think that they have been prepared all along.

I mean, they knew from the outset that what happened here to their loved one was a murder, and how it occurred was open and obvious to everybody in the world. But they knew that the only way the defense could defend this case is to assassinate George's character. And they fully expect that that will continue through closing arguments.

BLITZER: After closing arguments on Monday, of course, the case will be in the hands of the jury.

How's the Floyd family preparing for a verdict?

STORMS: Well, they're taking time off.

The family has -- went to their own respective quiet places for the time being. We will all be back in town, or they will be back in town and, obviously, will be together on Monday for closing arguments. And I think there's a lot of -- I think there's a lot of prayer, a lot of meditation, and a lot of strength through the family.

And those are the preparations that's going on.

BLITZER: You're also representing the family of Daunte Wright, who was killed by police in that separate incident in Brooklyn Center.

I understand they're growing increasingly unhappy with the charge that has been leveled, second-degree manslaughter, against that police officer. What are they calling for?

STORMS: Well, Wolf, if we think about the family, good luck trying to explain to a family like the Wrights why this wasn't a murder.

So, no one should be surprised to hear them say manslaughter is not enough. Similarly, try to tell the black community in Minneapolis or the community at -- the community at large in Minneapolis that this shouldn't be a murder charge, because they have watched when a black officer, in Mohamed Noor, shot and killed a white woman, in Justine Damond.

There was a murder charge. And, there, he claimed it was an accident as well. So, it's very difficult to -- for really much of the community, particularly the family, to understand why a murder charge was right there, but not correct in Daunte Wright's case.

BLITZER: You and your colleagues are representing two families who have found themselves at the center of killings that have really shaken the entire country.

What do you hope people will understand about their collective message?

STORMS: We reflect a lot on that, Wolf.

And I think that there are a lot of people who are rightfully proud of the fact that we were vocal, that we fought so hard, that we came together and, in unification, we made it clear to the world that what happened to George Floyd was wrong, and that this can't continue to happen.

And so we thought we made a lot of progress. But, as I have said before, those of us patting ourselves on the back for any progress can put our hands away, because, before we could even get through the historic murder trial of Derek Chauvin, another black man was wrongly killed by a white police officer in Minnesota.

So, there is so much work left to be done, Wolf.

BLITZER: And so, in the immediate future, the next few days, it's going to be rather tense, both in Minneapolis and Brooklyn Center.

I guess you're gearing up for that as well.

STORMS: Hey, you know, Wolf, there was a moment when I was worried that I was going to get to my office on time to see you tonight because I got stuck behind a caravan of Humvees.

Our city does not look like anything that I can ever recall. And it's a reminder to all of us of how serious the tensions are in Minnesota right now.

BLITZER: And they're only increasing.

Jeff, Jeffrey, thank you so much for joining us. We will stay in very close touch with you and your colleagues. Appreciate it.

[18:25:03]

STORMS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, we're also going to take a closer look to the closing arguments in the Chauvin murder trial and what both sides need to accomplish, those closing arguments on Monday.

We will also break down all the potential trial outcomes and how the nation potentially could react.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Jurors are on the brink of deliberating the fate of the former police officer Derek Chauvin and whether he will be found guilty of murder in the death of George Floyd.

Let's talk about next week's closing arguments. They start on Monday.

CNN's Omar Jimenez and our legal analyst Joey Jackson, they are back with us, along with CNN political commentator the attorney Bakari Sellers and CNN legal analyst Paul Callan.

[18:30:00]

You know, Bakari, so much of the prosecution's case hit on the very emotional impact of that powerful video that we all saw, various of the video, the impact on eyewitnesses. What do they need to do in these closing arguments?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I'm not that concerned about the prosecution and their closing arguments because their opening argument was brilliant. And one thing, Wolf, I can tell you, and I every lawyer will tell you, is that you have to throughout the pendency of the trial, you have to go back and prove and make every point that you laid out in your opening. And the prosecution did that. Expect them to put a bow on it on Monday.

But at the end of the day, I mean, we all saw this, the world saw this. The video is worth, you know, just so much in a case like this, because even this weekend while the jurors go back home and they may see what's happening in Chicago, they see what's happening further down the road, they're not isolated, they can't escape that video when it's shown again on Monday, and that video looks like murder.

BLITZER: That's 9 1/2 minutes. We all saw had that video so many times. Paul, the defense introduced a lot of other theories about what could have led potentially to Floyd's death. Do you expect a clear alternate explanation in their closing argument?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, as you know, Wolf, they threw pretty much everything but the kitchen sink into their defense, saying that there were all these alternative causes of death, so many, in fact, that their pathology said essentially it's an undetermined cause of death. But, clearly, he said that Chauvin was not responsible.

So I think you will see a rather clear approach by Defense Attorney Eric Nelson. He has been low key throughout. He kind of -- sometimes he looks like he's bumbling around like the old Columbo, but he always gets to the point. And he's a good lawyer and his a focus lawyer. So he'll work as best he can with the facts but, you know, the facts are not on his side.

And as Bakari was just saying -- they started, prosecutors started with that nine-minute film, and it's a devastating film. I think they're going to end with the nine-minute film as well and that's the thing that is really going to trouble the defense and I really don't know how he's going to overcome it.

BLITZER: Joey, what exactly will the jurors be instructed by the judge to do in their deliberations with Chauvin, as we know, facing three formal charges?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Wolf, so there's a lot for the jury to consider. They'll get general instructions as to the law, as to reasonable doubt, what that mean as to whether you can disregard certain portions of testimony, except certain portions of testimony, not to give any extra credibility to even because if someone's an expert, so there's a lot. But with respect to the core point, Wolf, and I think, again, the prosecution was brilliant just in bringing it forward.

And let's not forget, now talk about that just momentarily, starting with the 911 operator that suggested that she called the police on the police, right? That's powerful. And then ending with the notion of this medical expert, which talked about sucking the life out of George Floyd, all powerful. But to the point of the charges, the first instruction they'll be given as to second-degree murder is if they find there was an assault, and as a result of that assault, it led to the death of George Floyd, and guess what, that's felony murder. And as you see there, it's punishable by 40 years.

In the event, for example, they go on and they get to the next one, which is third-degree murder, what that says is that you acted with depravity, depraved indifference. And they can find that briefly, Wolf, from this lying in a prone position as George Floyd was. We learned that it restricts breathing, that's face down, chest down. You had an obligation to put him on the side. You did not do that to allow for the air flow. That's depravity. That's inhumane. That's third- degree murder.

And then finally we heard over and over about the policies, the rules, the directives, the procedures which talked to you about what use of force means. You have a 19-year veteran that's trained annually on that, does not follow those rules, that's at least negligent. And that get you to the manslaughter and a second-degree, and as we saw just before that, ten years in jail.

So a lot for the jury to think about, I think the prosecution proved its case very compellingly and my issue is just which one of those charges they're actually going to find unanimous on guilt.

BLITZER: You've been in Minneapolis, Omar, for the past several weeks --

CALLAN: And you know what, you know --

BLITZER: Go ahead, Paul. Finish your thought.

CALLAN: Yes. I just wanted -- I wanted to add one other thing. The real elephant in the room on this case at this point also is, is the jury going to be thinking about public opinion and what the nation is going to think, what the citizens of Minneapolis are going to think of their verdict.

Now, they're not supposed to consider that. The judge will tell them only the evidence and it has to be based on the law. But they live in the community and are they going to be worried about the impact of their verdict on the community.

[18:35:00]

That's the elephant in the room as we go into these jury deliberations.

BLITZER: So, Omar, you were there for us, and you've been there for the last several weeks. How is the community bracing for the verdict?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, on one side of things, on the community side of things, people are anxious, they are tense. They want to see the full weight of the justice system come down on Derek Chauvin and they want a guilty verdict. But, of course, we have to let the system play out. And on the city official side of things, this was the moment that they had been preparing for.

What happened here in Brooklyn Center last week was a surprise and something that they had to adjust their response to. But right now, we're in what's called phase three of their public safety plan, and it is the most visible presence of law enforcement we're going to see, obviously bracing to try and quell the type of demonstrations and/or damage from the May 2020. And, again, that -- this coming week, it was the tension they were trying to plan for in this.

And in then in the jury side of things, jurors were told by the judge to pack for a long time and hope for a short time. On the outside, what that translates to is this could take a day, a week, potentially even more. And all the while, a tense Minneapolis area waits to see what the answer will hold. And this process has been almost a year in the making.

BLITZER: You know, Bakari, I'm anxious to get your thoughts not just on what's happening in Minnesota right now, and that's obviously very, very tense, very delicate, but big picture, throughout the United States over the past month, there have been more than 40 of these mass killings that have gone on in our country. It's awful, what's going. It's an epidemic what's going on right now and it needs to stop. But give me your thoughts.

SELLERS: Well, you know, Wolf, I'm exhausted. I think most of America is exhausted, me, you and Paul and Joey and Omar and Sara, we've been covering this all week, you know, waking up early having to see these videos, having to see these black bodies on the streets, black and brown bodies on the streets.

This violence -- you know, I say that only in America can you be in the middle of a trial for someone whose knee on the neck of a black man, just to be interrupted by a shooting of a black man, just to be interrupted by a Hispanic kid being gunned down in an alley by law enforcement, just to be interrupted by a mass shooting in Indianapolis. I mean, we -- this has to stop.

And even more importantly, it's the cycle of trauma. And I had a call last night with Ryan Young, who sometimes we just get on the phone and we talk. We just were talking about the pain and the trauma that so many people are going through. You just think about the fact that George Floyd's girlfriend was a teacher for Daunte. It puts you on the same mind frame that Fred Hampton's grandmother used to babysit for Emmett Till. You think about the lieutenant in Virginia, how he was a cousin and called Eric Garner and uncle were so intertwined in this country, particularly if you're a person of color. You're so intertwined that this pain, it's just a proverbial cycle and it does not stop. And so I hope people this weekend just take a moment, take a breath and just practice just self-care. I pulled over today and got some Wendy's French fries and a frosty. And I dipped my French fries in the frosty and just took a breath, because I was just tired of what I see everyday every day in America but I know I have to get back to work because my kids deserve it. They look up to me.

BLITZER: Yes. It's an awful situation and national embarrassment indeed. All right, guys, thank you very, very much. Next week is going to be an important week in our country.

Just ahead, President Biden vents his frustration about the newest mass shooting here in the United States during his first in-person meeting with a foreign leader.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: We heard yet another angry condemnation of gun violence here in the United States from President Biden tonight. He was asked about the mass shooting in Indianapolis during a news conference with the Japanese prime minister.

Let's go to our Senior White House Correspondent Phil Mattingly. Phil, tell us, first of all, more about the president's message when it comes to guns.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, it was a sense of determination, determination he's made clear he has to get something done legislatively on guns. Over the course of the last several weeks when it seemed like every single week, there's another mass shooting that caused the flag at the White House to be moved to half staff, it caused another public statement from the president, who's also a palpable sense of frustration because of that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: This has to end. It's a national embarrassment. It is a national embarrassment what's going on. And it's not only these mass shootings that are occurring. Every single day, every single day, there's a mass shooting in the United States if you count all those who are killed out on the streets of our cities and our rural areas. It's a national embarrassment and must come to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And, Wolf, the president was asked, is he prioritizing gun legislation given the focus from his administration particularly on the pandemic, but also its economic package that he's working through right now on the infrastructure and jobs side of things. The president made clear he can focus on more than one thing.

And one thing to keep in mind is there are bipartisan talks, quiet bipartisan talks that are ongoing on Capitol Hill. No clear pathway right now to the 60 votes they need to actually move something forward, but some White House officials I've spoken to say there's some sense here that they want to give those talks space, see what senators can actually come up with in those negotiations. They don't necessarily want to go full bore at the moment.

The reality is also this, the economic package controlling the pandemic has been the one and two top priorities of the administration since President Biden took office on January 20th.

[18:45:03]

That will remain their focus, but working behind the scenes on what's become a plague, not just on this administration, but the entire country, not just in the last several months but the last several years, Wolf.

BLITZER: On another very sensitive issue, Phil, the president is now under fire for breaking a promise while in office, and now, the White House forced to backtrack. What's the latest?

MATTINGLY: Yeah, you have to strap in to keep up with what the White House is trying to say on the issue of refugees. Now, keep in mind, over the campaign, the president promised to reverse course on what President Trump had said is a cap on refugees to the U.S., a historically low cap of 15,000.

The administration made clear earlier this year they were going to try to move that kept a 62,500. For weeks, there has been no information as to why the president had not signed that directive to increase that cap. He said today he was not going to increase the cap, then changed his mind. There will be an increase in the cap at some point, at May 15th. It won't be 62, 500, but they are going to increase the cap after a lot of confusion and fears blowback from Democrats on Capitol Hill, Wolf.

BLITZER: Fears indeed.

All right. Phil, thank you very much.

Just ahead, we'll take a closer look at gun violence here in the United States after the 45th, yes, the 45th mass shooting here in the U.S. in just last month.

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[18:50:46]

BLITZER: Tonight, more people have been killed from gun violence here in the United States after a man opened fire at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis, an incident which is just the latest in a series of mass shootings across the country in recent weeks.

CNN's Brian Todd is looking into this for us.

Brian, these stories have become so sadly all too common. BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.

President Biden, you know, has been off is just a little over 12 weeks. He has ordered flags to be flown at half staff 5 times during that period, 3 of them from Massachusetts -- numbers symbolic of a crisis which America can never seem to fully address.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): Tonight, many Americans may be wondering when our flags won't be at half staff to mourn the victims of mass shootings. There have been at least 45 mass shootings in the United States in the one month since eight people were killed at Atlanta area spas.

There have been at least 147 mass shootings in the U.S. just in 2021, according to the gun violence archive.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yet again, we have families in our country that are grieving the loss of their family members because of gun violence. There is no question that this violence must end, and we are thinking of the families that lost their loved ones.

TODD: CNN classifies an incident as a mass shooting if four or more people are wounded or killed, not including the gunman. However, anyone calculates it, there is little doubt that America's crisis of gun violence is as deep and disturbing now as it has ever been.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The epidemic is real. The gun violence epidemic is real. It's something we can no longer sweep under the carpet. We don't want American exceptionalism to be defined in terms of the number of Americans who die from gun violence.

TODD: That sense of urgency shared at the White House today. President Joe Biden, tweeting, we can and must do more to reduce gun violence and save lives. His press secretary hitting home the same message.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We can't afford to wait as innocent lives are taken.

TODD: But America's struggle with this crisis long before 2021. The Indianapolis shooting, leaving 8 people dead, came the day before the 14th anniversary of the shootings at Virginia Tech University, when 32 victims were killed.

We've experienced mass shootings in Orlando in 2016, where the death toll climbed near 50, and in Las Vegas, the following year, when 60 were gunned down. Analysts say it's come to define how the rest of the world looks at America.

NAFTALI: An American is far more likely to be the victim of gun violence than a Canadian, a Japanese citizen, British citizen. Our allies are perplexed and worried about the fact that we can't seem to have a national conversation about the epidemic of gun violence in our country. TODD: At least not a conversation that doesn't devolve into a

political battle between gun control advocates and Second Amendment supporters.

In the meantime, one forensic psychiatrist says Americans keep getting more and more desensitized to mass gun violence.

DR. LISE VAN SUSTEREN, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: The body naturally response from the horror and the shock to try to protect ourselves by increasingly becoming numb. And so, now, we are looking at what's happening around us, and for us it's almost becoming normal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: And some experts firmly believe that the coronavirus pandemic is one factor at play here. One criminologist told us that with people coming out with more frequency now, many of them with pent-up anger, there's more opportunity for people to express the grievances in public and, of course, some turn to gun violence to do so -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us, Brian, thank you.

We'll have more news right after this.

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[18:58:41]

BLITZER: Finally tonight, all of us here at CNN are sending our love and support to our colleague and friend Rene Marsh and her husband Kedric Payne after their wonderful 2-year-old son Blake lost his battle against brain cancer. Rene put a posted of these pictures of Blake online along with a very emotional message and I want to share some of it with you.

She writes to Blake.

You taught me a depth of live I never experienced. You inspired me to keep going when I wanted to give up. You helped me prioritize what was truly important in this life.

I am forever changed because of you, my son. I feel blessed and honor to have been your mom. I wish we had more time together, but I am grateful for the time we had.

Then Rene goes on to write this: I did not just lose you, Blake, I lost all the dreams and hopes that a mom has for her son. I lost my motherhood, and I am mourning it all. I am dedicated to fighting pediatric cancer for the rest of my life.

To Rene and her family and all the parents who suffered that kind of pain, we offer our deepest, deepest condolences.

May little Blake rest in peace, and as we always say, may his memory be a blessing.