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The Situation Room
DOJ Files Formal Appeal Of Mar-a-Lago Special Master; Reaction To Exclusive Jan. 6 Video From Lawmakers Who Was There; Walker Vs Warnock, Crucial Georgia Senate Debate Begins Soon; CNN Obtains 911 Calls Made During Raleigh Mass Shooting; Juror: "It Got Ugly" During Deliberations Of Parkland Killer's Sentence. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 14, 2022 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, the Justice Department asks an appeals court to end the special master review of documents seized from Trump's home at Mar-a-Lago down in Florida. We're going over the formal request that was filed just a little while ago.
Also tonight, new reaction to the exclusive extended video obtained by CNN of congressional leaders scrambling to secure the U.S. Capitol on January 6th. We'll be joined by someone who was there, Congressman James Clyburn is standing by live.
And we're closing in on the start of a crucial debate in the high- stakes Georgia Senate race. Will the abortion controversy hanging over Republican Herschel Walker be a factor in the face-off?
Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.
New legal move tonight in one of the many investigations of former President Trump involving the special master review of documents seized from his Florida home. Our Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider is following this story. She is here with me in The Situation Room.
Jessica, tell us about this formal appeal by the U.S. Justice Department.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is the Justice Department appealing everything about the appointment of the special master. They're first saying that the judge in this case, Aileen Cannon, never had the authority to step in and even appoint the special master. And now they're asking the 11th Circuit to actually end the special master's review here.
And, you know, this legal fight on the Mar-a-Lago front, this is escalating at the same time Donald Trump sent a combative letter to the January 6th committee, seemingly in response to their vote to subpoena him.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): The former president sent a 14-page letter to the January 6th select committee after members voted to issue him a subpoena for testimony and documents Thursday.
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): We are obligated to seek answers directly from the man who set this all in motion.
SCHNEIDER: But Donald Trump made zero mention of the subpoena and let the question of whether he'll comply with it linger. Trump calling the whole investigation a charade and witch hunt while doubling down on his 2020 election lies. Committee members are leaving the door open to holding him in contempt if he ignores their subpoena.
REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): A few of the former president's closest advisers who decided to snub the committee, there are consequences.
SCHNEIDER: All of this as new revelations continue to emerge about what led to the January 6th insurrection.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We're going to walk down to the Capitol.
TERRI MCULLOUGH, PELOSI'S CHIEF OF STAFF: At the moment, he is not coming, but that could change.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I hope he comes. I'm going to punch him out.
MCULLOUGH: I would pay to see that.
PELOSI: I've been waiting for this, for trespassing on the Capitol grounds. I want punch him out, I'm going to go jail and I'm going to be happy.
SCHNEIDER: Including video exclusively obtained by CNN.
PELOSI: They're just breaking windows.
SCHNEIDER: It shows never-before-seen moments when lawmakers fled violent rioters rushing the Capitol to stop Congress from certifying the 2020 election for President Joe Biden. And it gives the first up- close look at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's realization that the Hill was close to being shut down that day.
And it shows how she and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, along with House and Senate leadership from both sides of the aisle, were desperately trying to regain control of the Capitol from a safe location, a couple of miles away.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Get the attorney general.
Why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the Capitol, Mr. Attorney General, in your law enforcement responsibility?
Answer my question. SCHNEIDER: They rallied resources from local, state, and federal agencies to clear the Capitol so certification could continue.
SCHUMER: Okay. Well, D.C. has requested the National Guard and it's been denied by DOD. I would like to know a good goddamned reason why it's been denied.
There have been shots fired. We need a full National Guard component now.
SCHNEIDER: Eventually calling the Pentagon for more troops.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): In one hell of a hurry, you understand?
CHRISTOPHER MILLER, ACTING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Got you loud and clearly.
SCHUMER: This cannot be just, we're waiting for so-and-so. We need them there now, whoever you got.
PELOSI: Just pretend for a moment that with the Pentagon or the White House or some other entity that was under siege, it can logistically get people there as they make the plan.
REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): Staff locked up and barricaded in their offices. So, there's a critical situation and risk of loss of life.
SCHUMER: We have some senators who are still in their hideaways. They need massive personnel now. Can you get the Maryland National Guard to come too?
SCHNEIDER (on camera): And at this point, the next move for the committee will be to formally issue a subpoena to former President Trump. If he doesn't comply, the committee could pursue a lengthy legal fight to compel him to appear or the full House could vote to hold him in contempt. And, Wolf, at that point, the Justice Department would then have to decide whether or not to prosecute. That's something that is very unlikely, given that they have not brought criminal charges against two top Trump aides, Dan Scavino and Mark Meadows, for defying their subpoenas, so unlikely they'd do something like that for the former president.
BLITZER: We will see what happens. Jessica, thank you. Don't go too far away. We have got questions for you.
I also want to bring in our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger, former FBI Deputy Director and CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Andrew McCabe and Presidential Historian Tim Naftali.
Andrew, let me begin with your reaction to the Justice Department now formally appealing the appointment of a special master in the Mar-a- Lago documents case. The Justice Department said all of the documents seized from Mar-a-Lago could be evidence of crimes.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: They absolutely could be, Wolf. And I think what you see the department doing here is trying to capitalize on some legal momentum that they've been able to pull together over the last two phases of this appeals process. You'll remember the 11th Circuit ruled strongly in their favor over the issue of the classified documents. President Trump fought that, tried to raise that issue with the Supreme Court and was soundly rejected just a day or so ago.
So, I think the Justice Department is kind of reading the weather here and realizing that they have the upper hand in challenging Judge Cannon's order, putting the special master in place, and they're taking their shot to see if they can get that entire thing knocked out.
BLITZER: Now, Gloria, as you know, this is one more very significant piece of unwelcome news for the former president this week, isn't it?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, sure. As Andy McCabe was just saying, look, the president lost in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said, you know, we're not going to allow the special master to, you know, to look at these classified documents. He's been subpoenaed by the January 6th committee, as Jessica said. He issued this kind of 14-page screed today, replete with pictures of how large the January 6th gathering was. And, you know, the question is, will this go to court?
Trump has said publicly, oh, you know, I would love to testify, but I want to do it live. And we know what happened when he said he wanted to testify before Mueller in the Russia investigation. That never happened. So, you know, all of these things seem to be gathering some kind of steam. The Trump Organization is under fire in New York State. He has a lot of legal problems right now, Wolf.
BLITZER: He certainly does. Jessica, I understand this appeals process will take at least several weeks. Tell us how this is likely to play out.
SCHNEIDER: Wolf, in general, appeals often take a while to play out. In this case, though, the 11th Circuit has agreed to expedite this, to move it along at a faster pace. And because of that, Trump actually needs to respond to this appeal by November 10th. Then the DOJ will get a chance to respond to that one week later on November 17th.
But even with this expedited appeal, it will still take at least a month to schedule oral arguments and then it won't be until after that point that the appeals court will rule. So, we're looking at least probably a month-and-a-half until this appeal is resolved.
BLITZER: Very interesting. Tim Naftali, I want to turn to the January 6th committee's vote to subpoena former President Trump. Can you put this into some sort of historical perspective for us? How rare is it for the -- for a president of the United States to, first of all, give congressional testimony, but to actually be subpoenaed to do so? TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Okay. Well, President Ford testified about the pardon before Congress. After he pardoned Richard Nixon in 1974, he testified before Congress. We've never had a case of a former president being subpoenaed to testify. Richard Nixon did testify, as a former president, before a grand jury. But what we saw on television the other night was a first in American history.
And it's clear what was -- what the intent of the January 6th committee was. It was both to give Donald Trump an opportunity to add to the record but also to set up the possibility for a contempt of Congress when, as everyone expects, Donald Trump refuses to testify before the House.
BLITZER: Very interesting. Gloria, I want to watch more of this very dramatic video of January 6th obtained by CNN. Listen to Leader Schumer. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUMER: Please move. The whole Capitol is rampaged. There's a picture of someone sitting in this chair in the Senate. They have all been evacuated. There have been shots fired. We need a full National Guard component now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You really get a sense of the fear these lawmakers felt that day when we hear these desperate calls.
BORGER: Yes, you get a sense of their fear, and you also get a sense that they were making the phone calls that the president of the United States should have been making. I mean, Nancy Pelosi has been blamed for letting this occur under her watch and the Republicans who are blaming her are standing around there watching her make these phone calls. And it is remarkable to me that the leaders had to be making these phone calls to the secretary of the Army and other -- and governors, saying, please, please, send the National Guard here.
One more thing I would like to say, Wolf, is that Nancy Pelosi was the one who was speaking with Vice President Pence, and this documentary evidence proves that, and she was asking him how he was doing and was he safe. And her phone calls were, you know, very generous to the vice president, whereas the sitting president of the United States never called the vice president that day.
BLITZER: Let me get Andrew McCabe. Your thoughts, Andrew, on these dramatic moments seen in the exclusive video we showed.
MCCABE: Well, the video is incredible, Wolf. It really gives you a picture of just how terrified, legitimately terrified our congressional leadership was on that day. And I think it also shows you a real insight in terms of leadership in crisis. You know, there's no playbook on the shelf to tell you, you know, what to expect and what to do the day 10,000 people march to the Capitol and break in, you know, trying to hang the vice president.
What good leaders do in crisis is they do everything they can, everything they can think of. They prioritize the health and safety of the people they're responsible for and they move forward to try to ameliorate that situation. And that's what you saw from Pelosi and Schumer and others on that day. They don't sit in their private dining room and watch television all day. They try to actually avert a crisis. And I think the video shows that really well.
BLITZER: It certainly does. Tim Naftali, how will all of this, the shocking video, everything about January 6th play in American history?
NAFTALI: Oh, well, there's no doubt that you have the basis now for explaining to future generations that there was an attempt by a president to stay in office illegally. I think that they've laid the groundwork, not simply for a moment of disgrace during the crisis, when a president didn't discharge his duties, but also proof that the president knew in advance that there would be violence. And so the president is not just responsible for not acting over the four-hour period on January 6th but he's also responsible for inciting the riot.
So, I think the verdict is very clear. Whether there's a political verdict something we have to wait and see, but the historical verdict is clear.
BLITZER: It will be dramatic, indeed. Tim Naftali, thank you very much. Andrew McCabe, Gloria Borger, Jessica Schneider, thanks to you guys as well.
Just ahead, we'll go one-on-one with House Majority Whip James Clyburn. He was in the room as these congressional leaders were working desperately to try to secure the U.S. Capitol during the January 6th riot, as seen in the exclusive video obtained by CNN.
BLITZER: More now on our CNN exclusive, video we've obtained showing the dramatic efforts by congressional leaders to secure the U.S. Capitol as rioters stormed the building on January 6th of last year.
Let's get more with one of the Democratic leaders who was in the room where top lawmakers were sheltering.
And joining us now, the House majority whip, Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.
As you know, you are prominently featured in this new video, huddling with other members of the leadership, as the U.S. Capitol was under attack on January 6th. Can you take us inside that room as all of that was unfolding?
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me, Wolf. You know, it was very surreal. I was on the floor when I saw something untoward taking place, Nancy Pelosi being ushered down from the podium. And I remember the conversations we had the day before, and I knew that was not the script.
And so I then moved toward the well of the House, was whisked out of there and taken down some back staircases I had never seen before. So, when we got there, Nancy Pelosi and I drove up around the same time and we go into this room. And I still didn't get the full import of what was going on until someone turned on the television. And there we were, watching this stuff unfold on T.V.
And I remember Nancy Pelosi looking at me, and I didn't remember until I saw the T.V., what was said between the two of us. And it seemed as if nothing was said by me, because I couldn't figure out whether or not what I was experiencing was real. It's not anything I ever expected to see in this country.
BLITZER: Yes, I was anchoring our coverage, and I had never seen anything like that myself. You would expect to see that maybe in a third world country or something, but in the United States of America, a mob attacking the United States Capitol, violently, that was totally unexpected.
I want you to listen, Congressman, to part of a conversation that the house speaker, Nancy Pelosi, had with her then-chief of staff about then-President Trump on January 6th.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCULLOUGH: The Secret Service said they have dissuaded him from coming to the Capitol. They told him they don't have the resources to protect him here. So, at the moment he is not coming, but that could change.
PELOSI: I hope he comes. I'm going to punch him out.
MCULLOUGH: I would pay to see that.
PELOSI: I've been waiting more this, for trespassing on the Capitol grounds. I'm going to punch him out, I'm going to go to jail and I'm going to be happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You can really feel the urgency in that clip there, the anger in that moment, Congressman. Did you share that sentiment at that time on that day?
CLYBURN: Yes, I did. And what was so untoward was the fact that no National Guard troops -- look, here in South Carolina, something to be anticipated like that and then National Guard troops would be put on alert and would be deployed, nothing. And then I remembered some conversations I had with local officials there in Washington and I remember saying to Nancy Pelosi, look, National Guard troops here in Washington, D.C., they have been taken away from the mayor. We need to talk to somebody in Maryland or Virginia.
And then Steny Hoyer got on the phone with the governor of Maryland and I asked Nancy to call Governor Northam over in Virginia, that we needed help. And so she did call governor Northam and he did offer help, and we did get help, but we didn't get the kind of help we should have gotten from the National Guard because the White House or the Justice Department, somebody in the administration was keeping that from happening.
CLYBURN: It's just that simple.
BLITZER: They've got to do a review. They've got to do a review of what happened to make sure that it never again happens like that. Congressman James Clyburn, thanks so much for joining us.
CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.
BLITZER: Coming up, our live report from Ukraine, we'll have an up- close look at the battle for Kherson, a fight that could prove pivotal in the Ukrainian counteroffensive.
BLITZER: Ukrainian forces are grinding ahead with their counteroffensive right now, reclaiming territory from Russian occupiers and forcing pro-Moscow officials to, in their words, evacuate civilians to Russia.
CNN International Security Editor Nick Paton Walsh has more on all the latest developments in the war zone.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice over): Night is when the push for the south busies, humvees speed the roads, incendiary munitions light up the night. That dusk, the skies alight with air defenses around the Russian-held, heavily defended town of Snihurivka just three miles south of here. It's the gateway to the big prize, the city of Kherson, where Russia is already evacuating civilians and low on supplies.
They say that the shelling has been noticeably less over the past month and a half, probably because of the damage done to supply lines the Russians need to bring munitions towards the front here.
Radio chatter they've intercepted between Russians here is of ammo running out and conscripts fleeing. In three days moving around the frontlines here, it's clear that Ukraine's movement forward has met a hardened Russian defense, even if they are low on ammo. On this tree line to Snihurivka's west, the Russian paratroopers are under a mile away.
New trenches are being dug and camouflage laid out. Nature is about to turn on both sides equally.
So, obviously, in the winter, the cover of the trees will be gone, and so there's a race here to prepare new positions so they can't be seen by Russian drones in the winter. A mix of the oldest type of warfare, an oven-heating bunk beds underground here.
A place for their rifles, this for five people. This is where they're going to be during the winter if they're still here.
And the newest, this is an antenna for Starlink, Billionaire Elon Musk's satellite internet service sending a live stream of drone footage of the artillery battle here.
This is where that signal is sent. Meet Fugas, his nickname, a farmer turned drone warfare commander, and then the lethal impact of a billionaire's internet service and store-bought drones, a hit on a Russian vehicle, the black smoke under the mouse cursor.
They show us video of several impacts that day. They know they will be hit back.
In the villages out east in Kherson, we see how fierce the fight for each village has been. Ukraine is slowly moving forward, but every farm is a slog, smoke crawling over every hill. One of Russia's largest bombs hit here. Nothing left to come back for if you once lived in these homes. It is as if this wasteland is telling the Kremlin it's time to leave, but they think there's more damage left to do before the inevitable happens.
WALSH (on camera): Now, being no doubt, Ukraine continues to move forward around the areas of Kherson despite them facing a very dug-in, very determined Russian military, and also being, no doubt, that Starlink, Elon Musk's internet service, is utterly vital for what they do, and has experienced no real problems. Most of the places we've seen over the last month have had a very successful service for the last month or so.
Vladimir Putin in Kazakhstan today, well, striking an interesting tone, at times talking about the need for goodwill to solve international conflicts, saying he had no real regrets over the last week's worth of heavy bombardment of Ukraine, not saying it was about to happen again, and again, threatening that a confrontation with NATO would be a global catastrophe, signs, though, that Putin is looking perhaps towards diplomacy. We're not quite sure why. No one in the west or Ukraine trusts him on that front, but it is certainly again a sign that Russia is not in a position of strength. Wolf?
BLITZER: Good point. Nick Paton Walsh on the scene for us, as he always is, stay safe over there. Thank you very much.
Let's discuss all of this and more with the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. Ambassador, thanks so much for joining us.
As you know, pro-Russian officials say they're evacuating civilians from occupied territory in Kherson ahead of the Ukrainian counteroffensive. Ukraine says this is more like a deportation than an evacuation. Do you agree with the Ukrainian assessment?
WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: So, Wolf, this is a sign that the Russians know that they're in trouble in Kherson. They've got a bunch of troops there. They've got probably 20,000 troops in Kherson, which is on the west side of the river, the Dnipro River.
And the east side of that river is where they would have to go if they were to extract themselves, either the civilians or the military. And those bridges, there are a couple of bridges across the river that the Ukrainians have taken out or at least damaged to the extent that it's going to be very difficult to send new supplies in to the west side where the Russians are concentrated, or to allow them to get out if the Russians want to leave Kherson.
So, those 20,000 Russian soldiers are vulnerable and the sign that they're giving to send out the civilians, to move the civilians indicates they know that they're in trouble.
BLITZER: Yes, good point. Putin said today that he has, quote, no regrets, that's a quote, over his invasion of Ukraine, but deep down, does he really believe that? What do you think?
TAYLOR: I think he's got big regrets. This is the biggest blunder of his career. This is the biggest blunder of his life. And he must know it. I mean, just the fact that he had to call up troops, that he said he would never do. He said that the Russian people wouldn't accept calling up troops, and yet he had to do it. He's got people on his right that are pushing him to do -- to call up more troops, to fire harder at the Ukrainians, and now the same voices that made him call up these troops are yelling at him for sending these troops untrained into the battle.
So, President Putin knows he's got big problems. He knows he's got problems with his friends, the Chinese, or the Indians. He knows he's got big problems with the Russian people. He sees them fleeing, sees the Russian men who are subject to being called up fleeing the country. He knows he's got problems. He's losing on the battlefield and there's nowhere to turn.
BLITZER: Putin also warned today that a confrontation between Russia and NATO could lead to what he called a global catastrophe. What do you make of that rhetoric? Is that a threat?
TAYLOR: So, Wolf, we've heard these threats. We've heard this concern on the part of the Russians that this could, this could expand. They know they're fighting the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians know they're fighting the Russians. That's where the battle is. And that's where he's losing. That's where he's losing on the battlefield. That's where he is.
So, all of this talk about expanding it, that's up to him. But he knows, if he expands it to NATO, it's suicide. It's the end for him.
So, this is rhetoric coming from him. We've heard this before. We'll probably hear it again. He's desperate.
BLITZER: Certainly is. All right, William Taylor, the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, thank you very, very much.
Just ahead, the Georgia Senate debate begins very soon. We're going to lay out the stakes and the expectations in a race that potentially could decide control of the United States Senate.
BLITZER: Just minutes from now, two of the most closely watched U.S. Senate candidates in the nation will face off their first debate. That would be in Georgia where Democratic incumbent Raphael Warnock has an edge in the polls right now, and his Republican challenger, Herschel Walker, has been battling controversy.
CNN's Eva McKend is in Savannah. She's inside what's called the spin room over at the debate site. Eva, how have the candidates been preparing for tonight?
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITCS REPORTER: Well, Wolf, all indications are that Senator Warnock has been combing through his record to highlight his work in Congress. A memo that we got from the Warnock campaign this week suggests that he is really going to emphasize his bipartisan record.
Meanwhile, Herschel Walker has been trying to lower expectations, saying that he's not that smart. But CNN has learned that he actually has been doing quite a bit of preparation, prepping with the likes of Senator Lindsey Graham and Newt Gingrich.
Take a listen to how Warnock and Walker have been talking about this crucial debate for the last few weeks on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Yesterday, your opponent, Herschel Walker, said that he is looking forward to the debate. How are you feeling about Friday?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): I'm feeling great.
SENATE CANDIDATE HERSCHEL WALKER (R-GA): I'm not that smart, and he's a preacher, he's a smart man that wears these nice suits. So, he's going to show up and embarrass me at the debate, October the 14th. And I'm just waiting you all show up and I'm going to do my best.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKEND: So, tonight is likely the only debate that we will see between the two. And early voting, Wolf, starts in just three days on Monday.
BLITZER: And, Eva, as you know, there have been lots of stories about Herschel Walker's personal life, including allegations that he paid a woman to have an abortion. How do we expect all of this to play into tonight's debate?
MCKEND: Well, no doubt, Wolf, that Walker has been dogged by these allegations. You know, early out the gate, he said that he was going to file a lawsuit. That still hasn't happened yet. Yet I am curious to see if he is going to offer any evidence tonight to more robustly refute these allegations.
But on the campaign trail, he still really enjoys a lot of conservative support. So, I'm not so sure how much this will be a feature of this conversation tonight, because we know that Georgians have so many issues, other issues on their mind, whether it comes to public safety, health care or the economy. Wolf?
BLITZER: Okay. Eva, thanks very much. We'll check back with you, Eva McKend on the scene for us in Georgia.
Let's discuss what's going on right now with Georgia's Republican lieutenant governor, Geoff Duncan, who has criticized his own party for nominating Herschel Walker to begin with. Lieutenant Governor, thanks so much for joining us.
You've said that the GOP should have never bet on Herschel Walker. Is there anything you can say on the debate stage tonight that potentially could change your mind?
LT. GOV. GEOFF DUNCAN (R-GA): Well, Herschel Walker has played in a lot of big games in his life for sure, and if he wants to be a U.S. senator, this is probably the most important game he's ever going to play in.
Look, I think it's how you attack these answers. Certainly, part of the game of running for statewide office or these big elected spots are having to be criticized and all kinds of rumors and innuendos, but it's how you answer them. And I think there are a lot of folks that are still questioning whether or not these things are true or not true.
But, Wolf, the real problem is I don't think we're going to hear any big policy ideas from either camp. Raphael Warnock is going to try to run from the fact that he votes with Joe Biden 96 percent of the time, and Herschel Walker is going to not going to talk anything about immigration, inflation, any of those big ideas, and that's the problem if you're a conservative in Georgia. BLITZER: I want you to take a look at this new Quinnipiac poll, Lieutenant Governor, that shows that support for Herschel Walker hasn't budged, actually, despite his abortion scandal. How concerned are you that you might be out of step with your own party?
DUNCAN: Well, I don't have to look any further than Brian Kemp, our governor. The latest polls that I've seen, he's close to double-digit, ahead of the most funded, most well-known Democratic candidate for governor in this country, because he's convinced not only his party but he's convinced those in the middle that he is deserving of continuing to be their leader. And I think that's the important part here.
It's no longer enough to -- you can't win these statewide elections just winning your party. You have got to convince enough folks in the middle to come your way. And that's the part that's so confusing to me, why do we keep doing this as Republicans. We know what we have to do to win, but we just keep trying to play the first half to win a primary and not the full game to win the general.
BLITZER: So, what do you think Republicans need to hear tonight from Walker, not just on the abortion scandal but on major policy issues, as you yourself point out?
DUNCAN: Well, I think he needs, as the questions are probably going to come up about some of the stuff in the past, he needs to be clear, concise and honest. We've got to stop mistaking honesty with weakness, as Republicans. I think that's one way that we can continue to grow the party.
And as we talk about some of the most important issues out there that's facing every American, I think most Georgians, they are more concerned about their 401(k) after another triple-digit dip in the stock market. They're concerned about inflation at the pumps, they're concerned about global chaos.
If he can be articulate and really talk through those issues in a meaningful, substantative way, I think he's going to run circles around somebody who votes with Joe Biden 96 percent of the time. Because at the end of the day, Georgia is a red state, it's just, for some reason, we keep getting in our own way.
BLITZER: Georgia's Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan, thanks as usual, for joining us. I appreciate it very much.
DUNCAN: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Disturbing new recordings of the 911 calls from the mass shooting in Raleigh, North Carolina. Plus, new details of how the 15- year-old suspect will be charged.
BLITZER: Tonight, CNN has obtained 911 recordings from a mass shooting in Raleigh, North Carolina, that left five people dead.
CNN national correspondent Ryan Young has our report which contains disturbing audio.
We're going to get to that report in a moment. We'll take a quick break. Much more of our coverage coming up right after this.
BLITZER: Let's get back to that report we tried to bring you just before the commercial break on that mass shooting in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Here's CNN's Ryan Young.
CALLER 1: The shooter? He has on all camo. The shooter has on all camo.
CALLER 2: It's a white kid running around here with a shotgun, he shot somebody.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 911 calls detail the mass shooting that left five people dead in Raleigh, North Carolina, including a 16-year-old boy and an off duty police officer.
DISPATCH: An officer was shot?
CALLER 1: Yeah, he's an off duty cop. I keep trying to say he works for Raleigh.
CALLER 2: We heard some shots outside and I looked out my window and the neighbor is on the ground, I think.
GOV. ROY COOPER (D), NORTH CAROLINA: We have to make sense of this infuriating and tragic act of gun violence.
YOUNG: Forty-nine-year-old Sue Karnatz, mother of three among the victims.
Her husband Tom writing on Facebook: we had plans together for growing old, always together. Now, those plans are laid to waste.
Two others were hurt in the shooting including another police officer and a 59-year-old woman who's in critical condition.
MAYOR MARY-ANN BALDWIN, RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA: We grieve for them today. Our prayers are also with those who were injured.
YOUNG: The district attorney says the 15-year-old gunman will be charged as an adult. He was taken into custody and is in critical condition. Police said the crime scene is extensive covering more than two miles. They have not released a motive for the attack.
The source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN the shooter was wearing camouflage and a camouflage backpack and a handgun and a long gun were recovered. People who lived near the scene reacting to the news including a teen girl who didn't want to be identified.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having somebody do that with my age, you know, the fact that they didn't care what they were doing, it comes to show that the world really needs to find why they're doing this.
YOUNG: Yeah, Wolf, that 15-year-old we talked to in this neighborhood and her mother tell us how terrified they were when this shooting was going on. One of the houses near the shooting scene, you can see they are maintaining a perimeter even back towards the golf course where they have this house blocked off. You see evidence come out as late as 30 minutes ago this afternoon.
So, it's still an active investigation with so many people wondering why the shooting had to happen -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Ryan Young on the scene for us. Thank you very much.
Also tonight, one of the jurors in the trial of the Parkland school shooter is speaking out to CNN about her decision to vote against the death penalty for the gunman and instead recommend life in prison without parole.
She spoke to CNN's Layla Santiago who's joining us now from Ft. Lauderdale.
Layla, what did she say about reaching that decision?
LAYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, ultimately, she's saying it wasn't an easy decision to make. She doesn't regret it, but did wake up this morning feeling a lot of anxiety understanding the pain of the victim's family members.
But in her decision-making, she thought the system failed the Parkland shooter several times throughout his life and she pointed to the law. The law requires a unanimous jury to go for the death penalty. Here's what else she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELODY VANOY, PARKLAND SCHOOL SHOOOTING TRIAL JUROR: I was still undecided until the very, very end. Even though we only -- you know, there was only one person who could vote for life, give him life, I didn't want to hide behind that person.
It took a while but at the last minute when we went around the room and voted right before filling out the paperwork when I went for life.
It was surprising. There were negative, sarcastic remarks. Oh, we're going to give him life but he's sick and some of the small talk, I heard comments like we're going to let the families down. I heard comments like, oh, you know, we have to put a stand for Florida.
In other words, you can't come here and do that and get away with it. When you go back to the instructions, those were things that we could not consider.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANTIAGO: Listen, she talked about the families being disappointed. That was very much the case. We heard from multiple families that repeated that sentiment yesterday. She also talked about the emotional toll this took on herself as well as other jurors at times having to ask for a break because things got so heated and tense in that deliberation room.
Here's how she discussed or how she describes the toughest day during the trial, the day they visited the building in Marjory Stoneman Douglas before the deliberations ever began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANOY: It was horrific, to say the least. It was like going to a museum that you never wanted to go to. That you would never in your life by tickets to go to. That's what it was like.
And at that point, we had viewed so much video, where you can walk through the school and know whose remains were there. It was -- it was one of the worst days of my life. I even -- I even, when I got home, I even had a glass of my shoes from that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANTIAGO: You know, everyone in that courtroom from the families to the jurors have described how horrific it was to re-live what happened February 14th, 2018. She says that she plans to seek therapy after this -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Layla Santiago on the scene for us. Layla, thank you, very, very much.
And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. Please be sure to join us Monday at our new time 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks once again for watching.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.