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Soon, Biden Speaks In Michigan As Calls To End His Candidacy Persists; House Democrat Confronts Biden On Call, Urging Him To Step Aside; Judge Throws Out Case Against Alec Baldwin; Interview With Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA). Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 12, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news, President Biden is campaigning in the crucial battleground state of Michigan right now. Democratic pressure to end his re election bid persisting though following his high stakes primetime news conference. We're going to hear from the president live this hour. Stand by for that.

Up on Capitol Hill, 19 Democrats now are calling for President Biden to quit the race. We're learning that one of those lawmakers directly confronted the president during a call today, telling him it's time to bow out.

All of this as Donald Trump is staying mum about his vice presidential pick with the Republican National Convention down only three days away. We're going to tell you what we know and don't know about Trump's vice presidential reveal.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

We're following Breaking News, President Biden taking his embattled re-election bid to Michigan this hour. He's ramping up his outreach to Democrats who have deep concerns about his candidacy, and he's been getting an earful from some anxious lawmakers.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is standing by up on Capitol Hill. But, first, let's go to CNN's Arlette Saenz awaiting the President's remarks this hour in Detroit. Arlette, a day after his big news conference, the president apparently still has a fight on his hands.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He does, Wolf. And President Biden stopped at a local restaurant with Congresswoman Debbie Dingell speaking to voters there for about 15 minutes. He walked around the room, not using a teleprompter, as he sought to assure voters about his candidacy, even explicitly telling them he that he promises he's okay.

It comes at a time when Biden's advisers have acknowledged the anxiety within the party, saying the president will continue to try to engage with lawmakers and voters, all as they're trying to make their case that he is up for a second term.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ (voice over): President Joe Biden on the move to Michigan today, looking to get his candidacy back on track.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: There's more to do. I know I'm only 41. We've got to finish the job, and I promise you, I'm okay.

SAENZ: The president working behind the scenes to shore up support, scheduling at least four meetings with key groups on Capitol Hill, including Asian-American and Hispanic lawmakers.

The outreach coming after a private meeting between Biden and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, who said he directly expressed the full breadth of insight, heartfelt perspectives and conclusions about the path forward. A source familiar with the meeting telling CNN, Jeffries spoke bluntly about House Democrats' views and did not offer an explicit endorsement of his own.

Biden hoping his Thursday press conference would put the Democratic doubt to rest, but some still vocal with their concerns.

REP. BRAD SCHNEIDER (D-IL): We can't have a situation where every day we're holding our breath.

MAGGIE KULYK, DEMOCRATIC DONOR: I think persisting in this direction is really a huge mistake.

SAENZ: Actress Ashley Judd writing, quote, I now ask President Joe Biden to step aside.

Biden's top allies argue it's time for Democrats to accept the president's decision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should the conversation about the president getting out of this race, should that conversation continue?

REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-SC): No, it shouldn't. If he decides to change his mind later on. Then we would respond to that. We have until the 19th of August.

SAENZ: As he heads to Michigan, Biden is eager to turn the focus back to Donald Trump.

BIDEN: Do you think our democracy is under siege based on this court? Do you think democracy is under siege based on Project 2025?

SAENZ: While one House Democrat from the state has called for Biden to step aside, the president will be flanked by elected officials in a show of force in a state the campaign argues is key to Biden's victory in November.

The president's speech taking place at the same site where he made this pledge in the 2020 race.

BIDEN: Look, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. There's an entire generation of leaders you saw stand behind me. [18:05:00]

They are the future of this country.

SAENZ: But four years later, Biden charging ahead as the Democratic nominee.

BIDEN: What changed was the gravity of the situation I inherited in terms of the economy, our foreign policy and domestic division. I've got to finish this job because there's so much at stake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ (on camera): Now, President Biden will take the stage in the next hour, and sources say he is expected to really lean into going on the attack against former President Donald Trump. According to some excerpts released by the campaign, the president specifically will try to tie Trump to Project 2025. That is a conservative policy blueprint that Trump has tried to distance himself, but Democrats are quite eager to tie the former president to in this election.

According to these excerpts, the president will say, quote, it's time for us to stop treating politics like it's entertainment or a reality T.V. show. Another four years of Donald Trump is deadly serious. President Biden really hoping to refocus Democrats and voters attention to Trump at a time where he's facing increasing pressure from within his own party to step aside in this race.

BLITZER: And we're standing by for live coverage of the president's remarks over there in Detroit.

Arlette, stand by for us. I want to go to CNN's Sunlen Serfaty right now up on Capitol Hill. Sunlen, President Biden was directly confronted by a House Democrat today. What can you tell us about that?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, just remarkable, Wolf. Congressman Mike Levin of California, he was on a virtual call with President Biden and the rest of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus today, and he is the first member that we are aware of that took not only his concerns but called for President Biden to step down directly to him.

Now, according to a source briefed on that call, the president responded by defending his record, but then say this is why it's so important for me to get out in front of people, let them know that he's moving well and is healthy.

Now, amid all this congressional pushback that continues, lawmakers are now headed back home for a week long recess where no doubt they will be hearing from constituents and from member, after member when they came out against President Biden remaining on the ticket. That is something that we heard them voice, the sense that this constituents back home are telling them very vocally that they do not want President Biden on the ticket. And that's something that they held up and in essence, to validate their decision to call for him publicly to step aside. And we heard from Congressman Cori Bush today a key member of the Congressional Ballot Caucus, and she says, while she has not called for Biden to publicly step aside, that 100 percent of the phone calls going into our office thought that he should do so.

Now, all this comes, Wolf, as tonight, a group of 24 former Democratic lawmakers, including two former U.S. senators are calling for President Biden to step aside, to release his delegates and to call for an open convention. Now, this comes, according to Politico, in this letter specifically saying that the president's energy and vision is intact, they say, but, notably, his energy and stamina needed for the campaign and potentially four more years, they say, is not. Wolf?

BLITZER: Sunlen Serfaty and Arlette Saenz, to both of you, thank you very, very much.

I want to bring in our political experts to break all of this down for us right now. Karen Finney, what does the president need to do to prove to Democrats right now that he's on top of everything and that he shouldn't step aside?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: A couple of things. Number one, I think Democrats have to decide what if anything he could do. I think the campaign needs to continue to do what they are doing in terms of, look, what we are seeing in the data, a couple of things. Former President Trump has not been able to capitalize on this moment. He is still having trouble with female voters. I think that is a group of voters that the president can still win. I think they need to show that data, talk a little bit more about that. We're also seeing with black and brown voters. We're just not seeing the same interest in having the president step aside. So, again, I would talk more about that.

But here's the other thing I think we need to be talking about. The issue landscape has not changed at all. If you fear a national abortion ban, if you believe in comprehensive immigration reform that is humane instead of a mass deportation, you're for Joe Biden, you're for the Democrats. And that is part of the way some of these members can actually start to sort of reaffirm their own bases. Because them talking about their fears makes them seem weak to their current constituents.

BLITZER: David Urban, I want you to listen to Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, who spoke aboard Air Force One on the way to Michigan earlier, shortly before this upcoming event. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I warned you all at this point, we were going to lose Michigan in 2015 and 2016 and nobody believed me.

[18:10:04]

I knew at this point we were going to win in 2020, and right now I'm going to look all of you in the eye and say this state is competitive, and nobody better write it off. We are going to work. And the president knows it. The first thing he said to me today was he knows Michigan is a battleground state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, look, I'm a great admirer of Congresswoman Dingell, she's a rough and tumble political pro and what she's saying is exactly correct. It's a battleground state. It's going to be a fight. The kind of the old wall, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin are going to be where this, this race is won or lost.

Karen talked about that Trump is -- that Democrats view Trump is an existential threat to do not only America but to the world. And I would think that they'd want their best candidate ready to go and fight the fight. And the gentleman I saw today did a better job, did a better job.

BLITZER: Hold on for a moment, everybody. Hold on for a moment. There's some breaking news I want to go to right now, breaking news in the criminal trial of the actor, Alec Baldwin.

I want to go to CNN's Josh Campbell, who's standing by. He's got the details for us. Give us the latest, Josh.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, a stunning development here toward the end of week one in the trial of Actor Alec Baldwin. The judge in this case has just dismissed his indictment, effectively throwing out the case, saying that he can now not be recharged. And I'll describe the events that occurred over the most of today.

What Baldwin's team had alleged in a filing is that there was wrongdoing by state investigators. They were asking the judge to throw out this case. Baldwin obviously was charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins back in 2021. What Baldwin's team had alleged was that earlier this year, someone had gone to sheriff's deputies here in Santa Fe and provided some type of ammunition that this individual said could be related to this accident scene.

Of course, the investigators were trying to gather whatever types of evidence that they could in order to try to determine how a live round of ammunition actually made its way onto the set of the movie. But what Baldwin's team had claimed is that the prosecution did not properly hand over that evidence to them, which, of course, is a violation of law. It's a violation of court procedure. They were asking the judge in this case for exactly what it occurred, to throw this case out.

Now, earlier today, the judge sent the jury home. This judge, I've been following her for a long time, clearly, clearly was not pleased with the prosecution. You could tell throughout her questioning, throughout her body language. What she basically did was bring this entire case to a halt, sent the jury home and wanted to hear from witnesses in this case to determine how relevant this evidence was.

Now, with this involved again, a handful of ammunition. They were trying to determine could this have been the source of the live rounds that made its way onto that said. Even if it wasn't relevant, it was still required, the judge said, to be handed over.

And I'll read you a part of what the judges said in this ruling, she said, essentially, that there was wrongdoing by the prosecution and not providing evidence properly to Baldwin, saying that there is no way for the court to write this wrong, saying that because this was disclosed so late, that would have impacted Baldwin's preparation, his entire defense strategy, saying that right now, with the court underway for a week, this would essentially not provide him a proper ability to prepare for trial. And so she ended up dismissing the case.

Now afterwards, Baldwin broke down in tears. In fact, you could see that starting to build as the judge went through her lengthy reading from the get-go. It was obvious from the bench that she was ready to throw this out, essentially describing all of the improper actions that that the prosecution had taken in the audience in the gallery were members of Baldwin's family. They've been here every single day, including Hilaria Baldwin. There was also his brother, Steven, his sister Beth, everyone on the Baldwin side in tears. At one point, Baldwin himself, Alec Baldwin, was being comforted by his own attorneys.

He just left here just a short time ago. Each day in court, he's been arriving in a convoy with his family, with his lawyers. After this, he left without taking any questions. We've reached out to the prosecution to determine whether or not they will be providing any type of comment. We haven't heard thus far. The same goes for the family of Halyna Hutchins. Their representative attorney, Gloria Allred, has been in court every day representing them.

But, Wolf, just a stunning, stunning development here on Friday. We had expected this case to go at least another week. Again, he had been charged with involuntary manslaughter. The penalty, if convicted, would have been 18 months in prison. Alec Baldwin will serve no jail time. This trial is over, Wolf.

BLITZER: The judge has dismissed this entire case with prejudice, meaning that prosecutors cannot bring it back, a very, very significant development. Josh, stand by.

I want to bring in the attorney, Michael Moore, to get his analysis on this stunning turn of events. What's your reaction, Michael?

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, good afternoon to you.

[18:15:00]

I mean, I'm not surprised at all, frankly. This case, it seemed to me, to be a stretch anyway to try to find blame somewhere beyond the armorer and that there was an effort to, to sort of pin the responsibility only on Baldwin when it was pretty clear that he was moving forward with a scene. And so when you have a case where in this scenario you have what appears to be prosecutorial misconduct, that's essentially what the judge found, by keeping this evidence, evidence that any criminal defendant is entitled to, and that is whether it is exculpatory under a long litany of cases that begin with Brady. When you hear about Brady materials, these are, this is information that a defendant would be entitled to, to prepare and present his defense. And so when you don't have that, and then suddenly at the ninth hour or during the trial, it pops up, then you have -- yes, you have a really significant likelihood that a defendant has been prejudiced, and that's what we saw here. And so I'm not surprised at all --

BLITZER: Very, very dramatic development indeed. Josh Campbell, thanks very much. Michael Moore, thanks to you as well. We're going to bring you much more on the breaking news as we learn more.

Plus, we're now waiting to hear directly from President Biden. He's getting ready to speak at a campaign rally in Detroit. Stand by. We'll see how he does.

Plus, I'll ask the veteran Democratic strategist, James Carville, about the deep divisions and the drama over President Biden's candidacy and where it will lead. Stand by, lots going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:27]

BLITZER: Now, we're waiting for President Biden to speak directly at a campaign rally in Detroit, Michigan. We'll have live coverage of his remarks. This follows his high-stakes news conference, which apparently failed to stop more Democratic defections.

Our political experts are back with us to break all of this down as we await once again hear from the president of the United States.

Eva McKend, you've been out there in various battleground states, like Michigan, talking to a lot of voters, including a lot of black voters out there. They seem to be among the most loyal supporters that the president has right now.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: That's what I'm hearing on the ground, Wolf. You don't hear this sense of panic that you hear coming from Washington lawmakers, I think because black voters seem to be very pragmatic. There is a recognition that supporting Biden again would support a Democratic team that comes with a certain set of policy issues, and they just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense four months out from this election to blow up the whole ticket.

They like Vice President Harris, you know, especially in spaces like the Alpha Kappa Alpha Convention, or the Essence Festival where I was, they're tremendously proud of her, but they just think from a strategic standpoint that pushing Biden aside in this late hour isn't the best strategic choice.

Now, there is a difference between older black voters and younger black voters. Younger black voters seem to have more of an appetite for Biden to step aside and for Harris to ascend to the top of the ticket. But there is still some discomfort in pushing him out or forcing him out. They tell me it's a decision that he should arrive at on his own.

BLITZER: Let me ask Karen, who's been involved in Democratic politics for a long time. Why are black voters so strongly supportive of President Biden right now more than a lot of other groups?

FINNEY: Yes, I think it's a couple of things, and Eva touched on it, where black voters are very pragmatic, right? And people tend to think, oh, well, a black voter is going to vote for a black person. No, we're going to vote for the person who we think can deliver. And particularly someone like Joe Biden and people who know his record, know that he is working hard to try to deliver on the things that he said he would do.

But the second piece of this is, and I don't think we talk about it enough here at CNN, there is a very real fear in this country about what a second term of Donald Trump would do. We've seen what's happening in the states around voting rights. Around criminal justice reform around a lot of the issues that black Americans care about. And despite what the former president touts, the fear is palpable among black and brown voters.

BLITZER: As you know, David, and I want your thoughts on all of this, the Biden campaign says they still believe very much so that President Biden can win this race.

URBAN: Well, they have to. I don't think he can win. I mean, that's what they're going to say. Listen, to Karen's point, just to make kind of push back on that, President Trump did work with our colleague, Van Jones, and others on the First Step Act, really significant criminal justice reform, which really did affect communities of color in a positive way.

And I'll just go back to -- I watched President Biden get off the plane and speak a little bit in Michigan. And when he gets out there and he says, the reason I got in this race to begin with is because Donald Trump went to Charlottesville and said there are good people on both sides, he's using a debunked talking point. Still, it's -- no. Karen, look at Snopes. Watch the tape, Karen. I challenge you to watch the tape from start to finish. If you can come back on here and say that the way it's being categorized is truthful, then I think that's mistaken. Watch the tape.

And so for Joe Biden to keep going out there and pointing to this and saying, this is the reason I got in the race, pick a different talking point. I mean, you look kind of silly that Snopes two weeks ago came out and said that didn't happen. It was all over the media, and Joe Biden's stuck on a piece that's not really accurate.

FINNEY: But a couple of things. People like Sebastian Gorka, who is a special assistant to the president, who recently on television called our vice president a DEI pick and, quote, a colored, those are the kinds of people that the former president surrounds himself with. The proud boys, stand back and stand by, and we've seen actually a resurgence, there's been a number of reports about the resurgence of the alt right with the possibility of the re-ascendance of Donald Trump. I'm telling you, that's what people in their gut are terrified of.

URBAN: But then, again, my point to you would be If, if Democrats are so fearful of that, and they're looking at numbers, Joe Biden is at 37, 37 percent today.

FINNEY: (INAUDIBLE) Americans.

URBAN: Okay. But, Karen, 37 percent today by Joe Biden, lowest in his presidency.

[18:25:03]

You'd think that people who fear Donald Trump would be pushing Joe Biden and say, listen, we need a better candidate. We need someone who can lock this down and knock this guy out for us. And instead you're rallying around a failed candidate who's going to lose.

MCKEND: I just want to say one more thing about the key coalitions that Biden will need if he is going to change course here, black voters. It's not necessarily that they love President Biden. It's not necessarily that they don't have real criticisms. Especially in the faith community, you saw a deep disappointment with the policy in Gaza and Palestinian suffering.

But the very same black pastors who a few months ago was deriding this administration for the policy in Gaza, where these very same black pastors in church talking about how there was a double standard in how Trump and Biden are being treated and encouraging black voters to rally around President Biden. They recognize that Biden is the practical choice for their set of values. That's what I'm hearing on the ground.

FINNEY: I think that's a very real important point even, like we spent the last couple of weeks talking about President Biden quite a bit. And, again, as I say, the polls are even pretty much across the board. Former President Biden -- sorry, former President Trump has not, again, been able to capitalize on this moment. That tells you something about what's going on in the electorate as well.

And I think, you know, we haven't applied nearly the same level of scrutiny or tests around his competence, his mannerisms, his debate performance, his health and well being, like I'd like to see a substantive health report about the former president the same way we have with Joe Biden.

URBAN: Karen, I would say people are concerned about Joe Biden's cognitive ability, right? They're concerned about --

FINNEY: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) about president -- for the former president as well.

URBAN: I would encourage the current president to go to the Brady press room, stand and take questions. He can answer it all. He'll just stand there for an hour, two hours.

FINNEY: He did. He stood there for an hour yesterday and took questions and answered quite subjectively. And I'm sorry, but Donald Trump --

BLITZER: I think it was 58 minutes,

FINNEY: 58 minutes, two minutes shy.

URBAN: A little bit of a script in the beginning.

FINNEY: Well, he --

URBAN: I believe it was about 20.

BLITZER: That was just the opening statement, but answered questions for nearly one hour.

URBAN: But, Wolf, just have him do it every day. You could solve this all, have him do it all day.

FINNEY: How about, let's have Donald Trump do that every day.

URBAN: He does it. He does it. He went to the helicopter every time. Donald Trump talked off the record.

FINNEY: Now.

URBAN: He'll do it. He's not going to do it now because the first roll holes is let your opponent keep digging.

BLITZER: I will just say one thing about Charlottesville, because I know you were making comments. The president said one of the reasons he decided to run for president when he heard those neo-Nazis in Charlottesville speaking about Jews will not replace, Jews will not replace, they were marching and saying all those anti-Semitic things that moved him. And then we did hear the president -- the former president of the United States, Donald Trump, say there were very fine people on both sides.

URBAN: But, Wolf, you know, honestly, if we watch the tape, I'll come back here and sit on the set and watch the entire tape He's talking about a protest that took earlier in the day about the Robert E. Lee statue. And then he --

FINNEY: There were not very fine people on both sides of the Robert E. Lee statue.

BLITZER: All right. Hold your thoughts.

URBAN: He condemned the white national supremacist folks. He condemned them very strongly in that press conference. And it's not fair to paint that with a broad brush like that, just not.

BLITZER: He did utter the words, there were very fine people.

URBAN: But about a completely separate protest.

BLITZER: Well, we'll see. All right, guys, everybody stand by, a lot more coming up. We're just moments away from hearing directly from President Biden getting ready to speak to supporters at a campaign rally in Michigan. We'll also look at why Michigan matters so much for the president in November. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:33:04]

BLITZER: We're standing by to hear directly from President Biden. He's getting ready to speak at a crucial battleground state of Michigan event, a campaign rally. You're looking at live pictures. You can see where the president will be speaking from. We're, of course, going to carry his remarks live. We're live. Stand by to hear the president of the United States. He remains under intense scrutiny right now. Only hours after his high stakes news conference failed to completely end the rebellion within his own party.

Let's discuss what's going on with the veteran Democratic strategist, James Carville, who's joining us live right now. James, thanks so much for joining us. I've been listening to everything you've had to say over these past several days. You've been pretty confident that President Biden would step aside, but his allies think he has actually showed enough, including last night, to remain in the race. So, where does this leave Democrats from your perspective?

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, in the words of Roger Goodell at the NFL draft, we're on the clock, all right? And I've hit it as well, if he just drags it out and we have no choice and we go into the election and we drag it out, 73 percent of the American public wants a change. This is not hard, okay? Let's give them what they want. And it's amazing when I see some of the commentary of the elites are doing this. Oh, I mean, think of something new to say. The country wants change. The president is a great guy. He's got a great record. They don't have to convince any Democrats of that. But also the public thinks he's too old. I don't know. I wonder why they get such a conclusion, but that's where they are.

BLITZER: Well, he's only, what, three years older than Trump. The Biden team is confident, James, as you know, that voters will look past Some of Biden's verbal gaffes, like referring to President Zelenskyy yesterday as President Putin or his own vice president as Donald Trump, and will focus instead on his record over these past three and a half-plus years. How do you see it?

[18:35:00]

CARVILLE: Well, they might be right, but they might be wrong. And the Democratic Party is always about hope in the future and tomorrow, and a place called hope, and hope, and dealing hope. And what we're being told is, we just have a choice, and we got to suck it up and make this choice, and you don't have any other choice. And I think it's just an uninspiring campaign message.

And look at where young people are. They're disengaged in ways that we have never been. And what people are looking for is something different and we're bound and determined to yap about elites, to yap about this, and not feed the change and the refurbishment, the new direction the country wants to move in. Let's get moving with the future. It starts right now. And hanging on and telling people you got no choice, that's not going to motivate anybody, Wolf. It's not going to motivate anybody at all. So, we'll see where we go from here.

BLITZER: James, Democratic Congressman Mike Levin directly urged President Biden to step down during a call with the Hispanic Caucus earlier today. That's the first instance CNN has reported of a lawmaker doing that. What's your reaction to that?

CARVILLE: Well, my big reaction is put our leader in the House leader, Hakeem Jeffries, who refused to endorse a Democratic president. I mean, think about that. Or you have all kinds of people calling for something different. And I mean, Congress, 11, they open it, they have a press conference, more people come out. Again, I stress that time is not on our side right now. And everybody just wants to gut this out. And maybe they're right. Maybe you get to the choice and maybe suburban women in Montgomery or Delaware County can't stumble up the idea of voting for Trump and maybe you win.

I don't know. I can't say that's impossible, but that's completely uninspiring. That's completely going to leave us in the same place we are. Somebody's got to think of something quickly here, people, quickly. We've got to move this thing.

BLITZER: At this sensitive moment, as you know, James, some Democrats out there have actually accused those who are coming out against President Biden of undermining the party's chances in November and actually wind up strengthening Donald Trump's chances. How do you respond to that accusation?

CARVILLE: You very well could be right. I've thought about it. And I just think in the past, people have laid it on the line as risk something for this country. And the idea that we just have to go along with something that we don't think is a good idea, that 73 percent of the people in the United States don't think is a good idea, but we have to go along with this under the doctrine of party loyalty.

I understand it. I respect it, but I fervently do not agree with.

BLITZER: So who do you think -- James, who do you think needs to stand up now and decide what should happen for the Democrats?

CARVILLE: The president.

BLITZER: Well, the president is making it clear he's not going anywhere. He makes it clear in almost every appearance that he's staying on the job. He wants to be atop the ticket. He's running for re-election. I suspect when he speaks in the next few minutes, we'll hear that from him once again. He's not changing his mind at all.

CARVILLE: You know, Wolf, you never know. When you don't have the leader of the House Democrats standing with you, I don't know. That's not a very good sign. And I suspect that he's calling around and the depth of people in the party and around it want change is just overwhelming. And he's the one that can make the choice. And if he talks -- I'm sure he's talking to people, and I'm sure that they're telling him what they think. But the idea that we are incapable of changing, that we have to stay in the same place we are, I just don't buy it. I don't agree with it. I never have agreed with it. And I sincerely doubt that I ever will.

BLITZER: And very quickly, James, one final question before I let you go. You say that the demand is overwhelming, what, about 20 -- if 20 -- maybe 20 Democrats have publicly called on Biden to step down out of, what, more than 200 Democrats in the House of Representatives. Is that overwhelming?

CARVILLE: Yes. And the Democratic leader refuses to endorse him, who represents the 212 people in the caucus. And as I tell my students in my communications class, sometimes silence is the most deafening speech that there is. And a lot of people, you're just hearing thundering silence.

[18:40:01]

And why would Hakeem not endorse him unless he was told by his conference about the Democratic caucus, man, you got to do something, don't get out front of this? What else can -- I mean, I don't know how much people can come out and say something and we parse it to say something else.

To me, it's clear across polling. It's clear when you listen to what people say, and more importantly, what people don't say is very critical in all of this.

BLITZER: All right. James Carville --

CARVILLE: We'll wait and see.

BLITZER: All right. James, thank you very much for joining us. We'll continue this conversation, to be sure.

And just ahead, we're waiting once again for President Biden to speak at a campaign rally in Detroit. We expect him to begin speaking in just moments. Stand by for that.

BLITZER: We expect President Biden to be speaking momentarily at a campaign rally in Detroit, Michigan, as we stand by for that. We'll, of course, have live coverage.

I want to speak with a Democrat who represents another state pivotal to President Biden's re-election chances. We're joined now by Democratic Congressman Gerry Connolly of Virginia. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

[18:45:01]

I don't know if you heard, but your colleague, Democratic Congressman Mike Levin today directly told President Biden he should drop out. President Biden responded by saying it's important for him to get out in front of people.

Will that be enough you think to turn this race around? REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): It could be. I think -- I think the performance is going to be everything. But I do think that all -- all of us have to deal with reality here. I mean, we can't be on the edge of our seat and biting our nails with every public appearance.

There has to be a sustained effort and a sustained performance that reassures and puts this to bed and allows us to move on. If the president cannot do that, I mean, cannot do it. Then we get some hard choices and hard decisions ahead of us.

BLITZER: It's also interesting that another one of your colleagues, Congressman Mike Quigley, tells CNN, probably another 20, his words, probably another 20 members of your Democratic Caucus have told him they want President Biden to step aside.

Is that what you are hearing as well?

CONNOLLY: Oh, I'd certainly say there are a lot more in that camp but I think it's more accurate to say there's a lot of ferment in the Democratic caucus and people have in conversations, doesn't necessarily mean they've made up their minds or that they're hard and fast in a particular position.

But are Democrats in large numbers having conversations, in small pockets and in caucuses and various interest groups about the future of this race, and are they worried as they look at more and more polling data relevant to their districts and their states? Yes.

BLITZER: I know you've stopped short, Congressman, of actually calling for President Biden to drop out. Why is that?

CONNOLLY: I have a personal relationship with Joe Biden. He hired me for my first job in the Congress on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I worked for him for ten years. I wrote bills and amendments and speeches. I've traveled to his home state. I knew his family, and I've stayed in touch with them in my political career ever since.

I have a 45-year relationship with the man I revere, I respect and I think has done an extraordinary job in transitioning us from the horrors of Donald Trump, to the place we are now. And so, for me, this is personal as well as political. And I don't want to be involved in anything that would degrade this president or detract from his grace and the dignity he should be afforded, and these aren't.

BLITZER: So I take, Congressman, you're not ready to join some of your Democratic colleagues and urging him to step aside. I assume that's right, right?

CONNOLLY: That is right, Wolf, but that doesn't mean I don't believe the president and the White House need to really dig deep in self- reflection here about the enormous stakes in this election and doing what is best for the country.

BLITZER: The so-called blue wall of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, three key battleground states are of course, critical must-win states for President Biden. Right now, can you say he's on track to win those three states?

CONNOLLY: Well, the latest polling data would suggest no, that he's tied in one of them and behind him the other two. So we can't win the election without those three states. That's' true.

BLITZER: I'm hearing and I see the president is now speaking into that microphone, and I wanted to listen in. Let's see what he's saying to the overflow crowd is going to go into another room soon.

But I want to hear what he's saying now.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: (INAUDIBLE)

(CHEERS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Biden-Harris 2024!

BIDEN: Don't worry, the recent polls showing us we're winning.

(CHEERS)

BIDEN: Look, we're just getting started. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you!

BIDEN: So, thank you, thank you, thank you.

(CHEERS)

(INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: All right. He's going to go in another room now and speak at this campaign rally in Detroit.

But, Gerry Connolly, the congressman from Virginia, is still with us right now.

As you well know better than I do, President Biden won your home state of Virginia by some 10 points back in 2020.

[18:50:04]

But some Democrats are worried that Virginia could be in play in November. Do you share that concern?

CONNOLLY: I do right now. The sort of upset post-debate showed at least immediate polling post-debate that Virginia would be tied right now and that's troubling. That's ten points as you point out, you know, below where we were four years ago, and we got a U.S. Senate race we got to win and we got two open congressional seats we got to hold. So that's a troubling development if it is sustained.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens in Virginia and these other key battleground states as well.

Congressman Gerry Connolly, thanks very much for joining us. CONNOLLY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And, just ahead, we're only moments away from President Biden speaking to supporters at a major campaign rally in Michigan. He's heading towards that room right now. We're going to bring you live coverage right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:00]

BLITZER: Once again, we're standing by to hear directly from the president of United States. He's getting ready to speak at a Michigan rally for the Biden-Harris campaign. We'll have live coverage of that as soon as the president heads over to the microphone, we'll hear what he has to say.

In the meantime, I want to get back to our panel.

Eva, this is a very sensitive moment. And you've been out there covering these battleground states, listening to a lot of voters. What else are you hearing?

MCKEND: It is, it is extremely sensitive. I actually met a woman who works with the elderly and she said that she just felt like this entire pile on was inappropriate and unfair.

BLITZER: The pile on on Biden?

MCKEND: The pile on on Biden.

So you have some voters are actually Democratic voters that are actually quite empathetic to these circumstances and really believe that he should not be forced and pressured in this way. But that this is a decision that he should arrive at on his own.

And, you know, I was listening to your interview with Mr. Carville just a few minutes ago, I think the Democrats who do want this off- ramp, they have to articulate really what the next few weeks look like if in fact they convinced President Biden to step aside, what is the plan? Will it be smooth? Can you articulate the process? I think is a really important question for those 20 House members that won Biden.

URBAN: I think the answer to all those questions is no, no and no.

FINNEY: Well, but partially because many of these members don't actually know the rules of the party. They don't realize, for example, that given that 14 million -- we did have a democratic process, 14 million people voted. So are we basically saying those members of Congress supersede the will of 14 million people and the 4,000 delegates that have pledged themselves to President Biden?

I mean, I think so there's some very real -- and we're the Democratic Party, is that how we're going to do this?

And again, I think it's very unrealistic to say were going to have regional town halls. I mean, the vice president is the vice president for a reason, yes.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting because there's a new opinion piece that's just been published on the editorial page, op-ed page of "The Washington Post" that says President Biden remains in denial. He needs to come to grips with reality. It says: The time has come for the president's allies to have a candid conversation with him.

What's your reaction to that?

URBAN: Look, I think it's past time. I think -- I agree with Karen. You're riding with Biden at this point, right? I mean, it is just too tough to change the rule -- I mean, too tough to change your horse and convince people that the next person is even better than the sitting president.

So I think it's pretty tough and I don't know who penned that that opinion piece, but I don't think that the people surrounding the current president shared that same opinion.

FINNEY: Part of the problem honestly I don't think any of this public pressure is helping. I think it is probably making him dig in more. And so, I do think perhaps next week, early in the week, he'll get a little bit of space and it'll be about the RNC.

And then maybe you can have that conversation, but again, I think this president feels as though he has said he's running, he's made that decision. The people have voted. We had a process and to Eva's point, again, there would need to be a whole new process unless we were going to say we're going with our vice president who happens to be on the ballot in the states. And again, you have a vice president for exactly this --

URBAN: But the president has to step down. He has to go away.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Remember, we have a lot of people in my party who are having this magical thinking about how were going to have this open process and all these people are going to run.

No, we're not doing that. You're not going to --

BLITZER: Do you think all these Democrats who are now calling on President Biden the step-down are actually doing Trump's work, helping Trump in this process? Is this -- is this a benefit for Trump?

FINNEY: We're starting to see that in the polling, Wolf. I'm starting to -- we're starting to see that people are registering -- they're questioning because they're hearing the questioning. And that's a problem. Instead of focusing on Project 2025 and the real threat of Donald Trump.

BLITZER: Do you think, Eva, the president is going to continue to resist these calls for him to step down?

MCKEND: I do. He seems pretty certain that he wants to continue running this race and you just have to wonder where were these Democratic lawmakers a year ago, two years ago, if they thought that president Biden was going to be such a liability.

BLITZER: Yeah. What do you think?

URBAN: Look, I think -- I think Joe Biden is going to be on the ticket on November 5th, and the American public is going to send him back in on November 6th. Just my take.

(LAUGHTER)

MCKEND: The Democrats' best argument, and I think that it has -- they've been using it to the sum effect is that a vote for President Biden is a vote for the Democratic ticket and its associated policies. They have to get really practical. They have to lead with you may not like Joe Biden, you might have concerns about his age, but this is what it means if -- this is what another Trump presidency I mean for the country.

They've been deploying that argument and that is really, I think the only card at this point they have.

URBAN: Even the tough part, though, is the vice president, her numbers are pretty bad as well though, that's the tough part, right? So, the person who will end up being the president and for -- in the next four year term, her numbers are pretty abysmal as well.

So if you had a very pop -- you get Wes Moore or Josh Shapiro, somebody with high --

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: All theoretical with someone actually on the ballot.

BLITZER: All right, guys, we've got to go, but we're going to continue to stay on top of this story. The president is about to speak. We will have live coverage.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'll see you tomorrow night for special coverage, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, and then all of next week in the Republican -- at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee.

Thanks very much for watching.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.