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Americans Freed In Biggest Prisoner Swap With Russia Since Cold War; Key White House Official On Condition Of Americans Freed By Russia; Harris Nears VP Announcement As Her Team Tests Top Contenders; The Dangers Of Living In Phoenix, America's Hottest City. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 01, 2024 - 17:00   ET

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On the uneven bars her teammate. Suni Lee took bronze. The U.S. women's team took gold in their team competition earlier this week. They'll compete for more individual medals in the coming days.

And American swimming superstar Katie Ledecky entered the history books today as the most decorated female U.S. Olympian of all time after winning silver in the women's four by 200 relay. Ledecky now has a total of 13 Olympic medals and still has a chance to add a to that number. Got to love it. The news continues on CNN.

[17:00:35]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news. We are breaking down every angle of the sweeping deal, President Biden's role in it and what happens next. This hour, I'll talk with the Principal Deputy National Security Adviser Jon Finer live.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Pamela Brown. And you're in the Situation Room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: And let's get right to the major breaking story. Americans deemed wrongfully held by Russia now on their way back to U.S. soil. The result of a landmark prisoner exchange that has been years in the making. CNN's Kayla Tausche is standing by at the White House. But first, CNN's Matthew Chance has a full report on the deal and the 24 prisoners released on both sides of.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was their journey to freedom. Evan Gershkovich sentenced to 16 years for espionage, peering at the outside world from a prison bus for being walked to a waiting plane. He's followed by Paul Whelan, the former marine also designated wrongfully detained by the U.S. and who spent the past six years in a Russian prison. They and 14 others are now free at last.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All of you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you.

CHANCE (voice-over): For President Biden, this was what the unprecedented swap was all about, reuniting families like that of Alsu Kurmasheva, a us Russian journalist whose daughter is turning 13.

BIDEN: She's Alsu's daughter. Now she gets to celebrate with her mom.

CHANCE (voice-over): And the family of Kremlin critic Vladimir Kara- Murza, sentenced to 25 years in Russia for treason, now also a free man. A major coup for President Biden, but at a cost. This is just one of the Russians given up in return Vadim Krasakov is an assassin convicted of a ruthless killing in the German capital. His employers, the FSB, the old KGB, confirmed eight Russian citizens in total were handed back, including convicted spies and cyber criminals serving lengthy prison sentences in the U.S. and elsewhere. "Their return was made possible thanks to the systematic and targeted work of competent government agencies," an FSB statement brags.

Back in the U.S., there's overwhelming relief. Innocent prisoners are finally free. But the Kremlin is celebrating, too. Putin personally welcoming swapped Russians back to Moscow. His strategy of trading bargaining chips has again yielded results.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (on camera): Well, Pam, tonight there's been a statement already from the family of Evan Gershkovich, the Wall Street Journal reporter who's been released. They say this, "We've waited 491 days for Evans release, and it's hard to describe what today feels like. We can't wait to give him the biggest hug and see his sweet and brave smile up close. Most important now is taking care of Evan and being together again. No family should have to go through this, and so we share the relief and joy today with Paul and Alsu's families" as well.

An emotional statement there from the family of a man who is finally getting a taste of freedom again. Pam.

BROWN: I can't even imagine the sense of relief they feel. Thanks so much, Matthew.

The White House, meantime, just released a new photo of the three U.S. citizens freed by Russia talking to President Biden on the phone after their release. And you can see Evan Gershkovich, Alsu Kurmasheva and Paul Whelan to the left. Let's bring in CNN's Kayla Tausche at the White House.

[17:05:09]

Kayla, President Biden and Vice President Harris plan to greet these freed Americans when they land tonight. Is that right?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Pam. President Biden and Vice President Harris will be on hand at Joint Base Andrews when those wrongfully detained Americans arrive on American soil for the first time. In the case of Paul Whelan in six years, for Evan Gershkovich in more than one year, a homecoming, a momentous occasion. And earlier today, Vice President Harris, who herself is the presumptive Democratic nominee, making her first comments from the tarmac in Houston where she's traveling on this occasion, praising the courage of these prisoners who are now on their way home, as well as the work of the administration on these complex negotiations that spanned years and involved multiple countries. To that end, President Biden and his national security advisor have acknowledged that it was those alliances that played critical roles in being able to deliver this deal across the finish line.

In particular, President Biden's relationship with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has been in focus with the administration, confirming that when President Biden asked Shultz to release one of Russia's hitmen as part of this deal, the main bargaining chip that Putin wanted, that Scholz replied, for you, I will do this. And President Biden, in what appeared to be a veiled overture to former President Donald Trump who has tried to downplay some of these alliances earlier today, said having friends around the world matters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: So for anyone who questions whether allies matter, they do. They matter. Today is a powerful example of why it's vital to have friends in this world, friends you can trust, work with, and depend upon, especially on matters of great consequence and sensitivity like this. Our alliances make our people safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Following the news that the release of those four Americans and one American -- three Americans and one American green card holder had been released, President Biden celebrating with those families on hand here at the White House and then spending the afternoon calling the leaders of those seven countries, thanking them for their cooperation for this painstaking effort. Pam.

BROWN: All right, Kayla Tausche at the White House for us. Thanks, Kayla.

And now let's turn to the Turkish government's role in this historic prisoner exchange. The U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Jeff Flake, joins us from Istanbul.

Ambassador, thanks for coming on. I know it's late there, so bring us into this high stakes exchange, what it was like at such a tenuous moment with very complex negotiations. How did Turkey, the U.S., and all parties involved make sure this made it across the finish line?

JEFF FLAKE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY: Well, as we all know, this was an extremely complex arrangement here in process, so seven planes coming into the Ankara airport. So it was extremely difficult. The Turkish government played a very significant and useful role in this, just as they have throughout the Ukraine war, organizing prisoner swaps with Ukraine and Russia and then the grain deal. So they played a useful role, and they did here as well.

BROWN: What was it like, though, on that tarmac in Turkey when this was actually taking place? We have some video we've been showing on the screen.

FLAKE: Well, you're never actually sure that this is going to go off until the wheels are up, and gratefully they are. And these detainees are on their way across the Atlantic. But I was involved in one of these prisoner exchanges in 2014 in Cuba, and you're never sure until it's over. And I think we felt the same relief here in Turkey when it was over.

BROWN: We saw Putin greet the freed Russian prisoners as they landed in Moscow, two of them convicted killers, many others convicted spies. How much does Putin benefit from this deal?

FLAKE: Well, he certainly wanted this, but I think we wanted it as well. These are very different stories, obviously. The detainees that are detainees in Russia were not guilty of what they were charged with. Obviously, the Russians were. So it's a very different situation.

But I'm sure he wanted it, but I think we wanted it more, and it's a good deal for all of us.

BROWN: But do you think this could incentivize hostile actors to wrongfully jail more American citizens? As you point out, the ones -- the Americans who were freed were wrongfully detained, and in exchange, Russia got, you know, a hitman back. They got, you know, spies back in exchange?

FLAKE: I think that the incentives will always exist, but Russia will seek to detain innocent people regardless of what we do on our side. So I think this was the right thing to do. I'm glad the president worked so hard to get it done, the intelligence community, the State Department, the whole team of government officials.

[17:10:14]

BROWN: I also want to discuss, while we have you, these tensions in the Middle East right now. How are you bracing for Iran to respond to Israel's killing of both the top Hezbollah commander and as all indications point to the Hamas political leader?

FLAKE: Well, obviously, it's a tense time here in this region. We're hoping that this does not escalate. I think we're taking every measure we can to ensure that it doesn't. But obviously, it's a tense time here.

BROWN: But how big is your concern of a growing wider war in the Middle East?

FLAKE: We're always concerned about that. But as we've seen in times past --

BROWN: Yes, but right now, in this moment, what do you see? What are you -- are we on the precipice of something bigger, in your view potentially?

FLAKE: I hope not, and I don't think so. I think we've seen in recent history with the strike that Israel did in Iran and Iran strike in Israel, that didn't escalate before. We're hopeful that we don't see escalation here, and I don't think we will.

BROWN: Ambassador Jeff Flake, thank you.

FLAKE: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up, we'll get an update on how the freed Americans are doing right now when we're joined by a key White House official. We have much more on this breaking story straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:41]

BROWN: We are following breaking news on the historic prisoner exchange between Russia and the west that's bringing some high profile former U.S. captives home tonight. CNN's Matthew Chance is back, along with our other Russian international experts, Evelyn Farkas and Anne Applebaum.

All right, I want to start with you, Evelyn. This was the largest prisoner swap since the Cold War, a huge deal. Help us understand just how big of a feat this was and what went in to getting this complex deal over the finish line.

EVELYN FARKAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MCCAIN INSTITUTE: Yes, Pamela, I mean, it really was, as the White House said, a diplomatic feat. It involved multiple countries, the, you know, the countries that were most critical, obviously Germany, because Germany had one of the prisoners, if not the prisoner, that Russia was most interested in. And Germany had a principled position going in, which meant that the Russians knew that they were going to have to give us a lot in order to get that prisoner. And that's the murderer that Ambassador Flake mentioned. The other countries, of course, Slovakia and Poland, Turkey, of course, facilitating the exit.

All of these countries together, what it meant was we were able to go to the Russians, and I don't know how it actually, you know, unfolded, but you can imagine the United States government, because we had this ongoing dialogue with the Russians about a prisoner swap saying, well, look, we've now got a group of them. Why? Because we work really closely with our allies. We came up with a very smart approach. And it sounds like right up until the last minute, President Biden was engaged.

You know, it often takes the leaders at the highest level to get this across the finish line. And again, as he even mentioned in the press conference he gave today, the German chancellor was hesitant, again, based on their principles. And you know, it wasn't easy to release a double homicide, you know, a guy who had been convicted of two homicides in their country, on their soil, at the behest or at the direction, you know, working at the direction of Vladimir Putin.

So, it was something that I think they've been working on a long time, Pamela. I was in Munich at the security conference in February, and I caught wind of a potential big swap like this. So, you know, you can just imagine what it entailed.

BROWN: Yes. The reporting indicates at that security conference. There were some very high level discussions taking place about this deal. Fast forward now to the first day of August, and these prisoners wrongfully detained in Russia are freed now, these three Americans. And at the same time, you have the other side of this, right, and Vladimir Putin.

There's this video that we're going to put up on the screen showing him greeting the Russian prisoners returning to Moscow. How carefully staged was that moment? Just how much does this benefit Putin?

ANNE APPLEBAUM, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, I think you have to remember Putin is a --

FARKAS: It's hard to say how much it benefit --

BROWN: Oh, sorry. I want to go to Anne on this one.

FARKAS: Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Which one of us?

APPLEBAUM: No, I was going to say it's hard to say how much Putin benefits. These aren't people who are well known to the Russian public. They're not heroic figures. They're spies and murderers, and in one case, I think, a cyber hacker. So it's not like they're returning heroes.

I mean, he may try to cast them like that or make them look like that. I mean, I think it's interesting the really profound difference between these two groups of prisoners, and you've mentioned the three Americans several times, the Russians who are being released are also -- these are really brave human rights activists. Vladimir Kara-Murza, who went to prison for protesting the war in Ukraine, who's a Washington Post columnist who won a Pulitzer Prize this year. you know, Ilya Yashin, there's a whole series of them who are extremely brave people. And those are the kinds of people who were trying to get back, who we feel should be released. And by comparison, as I said, the Russians are receiving a handful of convicted criminals. I mean, it really -- it tells you something about the difference between the two sides.

BROWN: Yes. And I'm going to go to you in a second, Matthew. But just to follow up with you, Anne, it also strikes me that some of the countries involved in this high stakes, very complex deal, they didn't really -- they didn't get anything out of this in terms of, you know, a prisoner being turned back to them, right? And what does that tell you?

[17:20:15]

APPLEBAUM: Well, so there were some Germans released. So I think that was part of -- that may have been part of the deal as well.

BROWN: That was.

APPLEBAUM: But you're right. I mean, this was an alliance effort. This was a -- this was an effort by -- I mean, the Poles were involved, other allies were involved, and everybody understood that it was part of showing goodwill to the United States and understanding both the political significance for Biden of having the three Americans come home. But also, as I said, the significance of releasing these very, very important Russians and journalists who are innocent of crimes and who are important leaders and will go on being important leaders outside of Russia.

BROWN: To bring you in, Matthew, the Wall Street Journal has this really extensive report on how this went down. It is an excellent read. I recommend everyone read it. And at the end of it, there is reporting that Evan Gershkovich filled out the Russian paperwork to be released and pardoned. And he added, in a personal appeal to Putin, quote, it says, "After his release, would Putin be willing to sit down for an interview?"

How remarkable is that? I mean, that's what he put on his paperwork.

CHANCE: Well, I mean, you know, being a longtime journalist myself in Russia who's lobbied for years to try and get an interview with Vladimir Putin and only being successful on one occasion, then, you know, I don't blame Evan for giving it a try. Let's see whether that works out for him.

And I have to agree with Anne that what stark in all of this is the remarkable difference between the sort of quality, if you like, of the people that were released by Russia compared to the people that were released by the United States and the other countries that have been involved in that. They're not like for like, there's a real kind of moral difference in the kinds of people that are being exchanged. And that must have been a huge dilemma, certainly for the Germans who found themselves releasing a convicted murderer, basically an assassin for the FSB who killed somebody in broad daylight in the middle of the German capital. That must have taken quite a lot of political sort of bravery, I suppose, for the German chancellor to do that.

What I'm concerned about is that this, you know, hands Vladimir Putin a strategic victory. It rewards his policy of taking bargaining chips, innocent people, turning them into bargaining chips, and using that to leverage concessions from the United States and the west. Let's hope not. Let's hope it's a sign that he's softening his stance. But my suspicion is that it may embolden him.

BROWN: Right. And to note, you know, this is the third prisoner swap that the Biden administration has had with Russia. And on that note, Evelyn, are you concerned this could be a vicious cycle?

FARKAS: I mean, Pamela, yes and no, because I think Vladimir Putin is not going to soften. Vladimir Putin is Vladimir Putin. He's always looking for bargaining chips. And, you know, I think he's just going to continue to take advantage where he can. And we just need to do a better job, of course, communicating to our citizens and of course, our allies need to join us in this.

You should not travel to places like Russia, Iran and other locations where these autocrats act with impunity and they will seize our citizens. That's really the best that we can do at this point.

But, you know, highlighting publicly the discrepancy between the people is important. As Matt said, these are -- and Anne said, these are innocent, actually patriots and freedom fighters who should be applauded, who have been released by our side. And Vladimir Putin's people are despicable.

BROWN: What do you say, Anne, to that idea of this incentivizing Russia? You know, the reporting indicates, and just looking at the prisoner swaps during the Biden administration that there appears to be sort of a strategy that Putin has been using more and more in recent years of arresting, taking into custody Americans, innocent Americans in exchange for Russian prisoners in other countries. And, you know, one could argue it's an effective strategy given what we're seeing play out today.

APPLEBAUM: You know, in all these cases, there's a kind of balance between moral hazard, which is what you're talking about, that we -- that by doing an exchange like this, we encourage more in the future. And on the other hand, the moral imperative to bring people home to get people like Kara-Murza or Yashin released, you know, originally one of the original people who was meant to be part of this deal back in February was, of course, Alexei Navalny, who was then -- who died mysteriously, probably murdered by the Russian state. And it was considered so important to get him out that it was worth making this kind of trade.

[17:25:16]

So I don't think there's a rule about it. I mean, I think there's, in this situation -- in this particular moment, it looked like there were enough good political reasons to do it. But you could argue down the road that there will be times when we should say, no, we won't negotiate.

BROWN: I'm wondering what your perspective is on that, Matthew, as someone who has spent a lot of time in Russia as a journalist. How dangerous is it now, in your view, for an outsider, for an American or someone from the west to be in Russia?

CHANCE: Well, I think it's -- I think it's more dangerous than it's been since, you know, since I can remember for the past 20 years or so. I mean, because there's always that risk which is difficult to mitigate against, that, you know, someone in the Russian authorities is going to decide to pick you up and accuse you of a crime, present no evidence and dish out a very heavy sentence on you. I don't know whether, as Evelyn was saying, the, you know, encouraging people like journalists not to go to places like Russia or Iran or wherever else, I'm not sure that is going to work or whether that's even what she necessarily remains. We do still have a responsibility to, as much as we can go in there and try and report from there, I think. But, I mean, obviously, it's a risky thing.

I also wanted to draw some attention back to the fact that there are some people, Americans, who have not been included in this deal, people like Marc Fogel, who is a teacher, was a teacher at the Anglo American school in Moscow. He brought cannabis into the country and he's serving a 14-year prison sentence. Gordon Black, who's an American soldier, still there. Ksenia Karelina, she's a beautician from LA, she's not part of this deal either. So there are still people with U.S. connections in Russian prisons.

And, you know, I think they must be feeling, you know, I don't know what they're feeling tonight. It must be pretty bleak for them.

BROWN: Yes. One of their families released a statement talking about just that. And I'm going to be interviewing a White House official coming up in the show, and that, of course, will be part of the discussion. Thanks to you all. We appreciate it.

And up next, we're going to go back live to the White House with President Biden's Deputy National Security Adviser, Jon Finer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:57]

BROWN: Well, the families of freed American captives are anxiously awaiting the return of their loved ones to the U.S. tonight. President Biden and Vice President Harris will greet them as well. Joining us now, the principal deputy national security advisor to the president, Jon Finer. Thanks for coming on. First off, how are the Americans who are traveling home? How are they doing? What more can you tell us about their condition?

JONATHAN FINER, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, the president had the occasion, as did their families, to speak with the Americans who were freed earlier today when they were still on the tarmac waiting to travel onward to the United States. And everybody seemed in good spirits. I certainly don't have any, you know, more information than -- than that to pass on. I think that would be private to the people involved. But everyone was quite happy, including everyone who was in the Oval Office with the President and received the good news that their loved ones would soon be coming home.

BROWN: I want to ask you, just given that -- that the broader context, the geopolitical context here, U.S. Russia relations are at their worst since the Cold War, and yet this is the biggest prisoner exchange since the Cold War. Why have you had success in these behind the scenes negotiations while the diplomatic relationship is at this historic low?

FINER: Well, look, I would caution anybody against reading anything into the relationship between the U.S. and Russia, other than that it's in a very difficult place, and it's in a very difficult place because Russia has chosen to commit some unconscionable acts in the world, first and foremost, its war of aggression on Ukraine. Nothing that's happened today changes that. We are fundamentally still at odds.

But on the other hand, we did find a target of opportunity through very hard-nosed diplomacy with Russia, close collaboration with our partners and allies, including some very difficult questions we had to ask of some of our friends to help us here. And then very careful execution of what was a logistically, diplomatically, and politically complicated exchange to execute today that went off without a hitch.

BROWN: But I'm just wondering, given the fraught relations with Russia, how could the U.S., during these months of negotiations, sort of trust that Russia was going to -- to, you know, hold up its end of the bargain in this?

FINER: There was no trust involved in -- in this relationship or in this negotiation. Everything had to be verified multiple times. And at the end of the day, you know, you don't do hard negotiations with your closest friends. You do hard negotiations sometimes with your adversaries when you need to get difficult things done. And the President demonstrated under his direction and under his guidance that were able to do that. And because of that, these four Americans who we mentioned earlier, are going to have now the opportunity to spend time with their families, many of whom have not seen them in -- in a period of years.

BROWN: Yes, certainly just a huge relief for these families, to say the least, so many other emotions as well. I want to put up this video on the screen of Putin greeting the prisoners, his prisoners on the tarmac. This deal gave Russia eight criminals, two of them convicted killers, many of them spies. Did this deal incentivize Russia and other hostile states to wrongfully detain more Americans in the future? Is this a vicious cycle?

[17:35:02]

FINER: Look, all I'll say about that is there have been periods in our history when we did not do many deals like this, and Americans were still held captive and held hostage abroad. There have been periods in which we have done more of these deals, and Americans have been held captive and hostage abroad. At the end of the day, we've made a -- a decision that we value the lives of Americans, that we are going to do everything possible to help Americans who are in a difficult situation, whether they're at home or abroad. And when they're abroad and stuck, we're going to try to bring them home. That's been a priority of this administration. It's not something we apologize for. We think it is fundamentally in our interest and fundamentally supported by the American people to do that.

And, you know, the one thing I'll say about the video that you just showed, it does say something about what our respective societies value. The people who the United States chose to bring home are innocent. They are journalists. They are activists. They are people who are trying to make the world a better place. I'll let you judge the -- the -- what the priorities and the values that are represented by who the other side tried to bring home. And at the end of the day, we believe that this deal was fundamentally in our interest to do.

BROWN: You know, and I understand what you're saying if you look through history and the cycles of prisoner swaps, but under the Biden administration, this is the third prisoner swap with Russia. And some Russian analysts, those who are watching all of this play out, they would say, look, Russia is using this practice of taking Americans in hopes of trading them as hostages more frequently, that -- that Putin is seizing on this more in recent years, and this is working. What do you say to that?

FINER: Well, I want to be quite clear about one thing, as the President was when he was asked a version of this question earlier today, we are telling Americans not to travel to Russia. They should not travel there. It is fundamentally dangerous for Americans to be present in Russia for a whole range of reasons, including the one that's at issue in our conversation, which is they have a reasonable chance of being caught up in a justice system that is not remotely fair, to say the least. And so --

BROWN: Let's listen to that, actually, Jonathan, I just want to -- OK.

FINER: So our advice to Americans is do not travel to Russia. Second, though, I want to come back to where I started. It is going to be a priority for this administration when people are caught up in situations that are out of their control overseas, for their country not to leave them behind, but to try to bring them home. And that goes for Americans in other countries who are still caught up in that situation. We're going to continue to try to do that through the course of this administration.

BROWN: All right, let's actually listen to that sound from President Biden himself talking about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- these so called abductor states, from simply taking more Americans in order to get more of their prisoners home. How do you end these perverse incentives, sir?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm advising people not to go certain places, tell them what is at risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But just to follow up on what you said, I mean, is advising people against traveling really enough, right? I mean, that -- that has been going on for years and years, and yet we are still seeing people travel over there, including journalists like Gershkovich, doing their jobs. What policies will the U.S. enact to meaningfully prevent more Americans from being wrongfully imprisoned?

FINER: So our approach has a number of elements to this. One is these travel warnings, which we issue when we think it's too dangerous for Americans to go to certain places. And there are a number of places on the map, including Russia and places like Iran and Syria, that fall into this category. Second, though, when there are governments and countries that have taken this unconscionable step of unlawfully or wrongfully detaining Americans, we sanction them. That is a new approach taken in this administration, specific sanctions in line with statute passed by Congress to punish countries that go down this path.

And then third, is this diplomatic approach, because we just fundamentally, as an administration, will not believe in leaving people behind who are caught up in this situation when they are Americans. The President is committed to that, makes no apologies for it.

BROWN: To be clear, though, in this deal there were no sanctions, right, or anything additional beyond the prisoner swap, correct?

FINER: Well, the U.S. has issued a number of sanctions related to countries that have wrongfully detained Americans. It's a tool we have at our disposal, and we'll continue to use it.

BROWN: All right, I want to ask you before we let you go, this deal involved 24 people, and yet Marc Fogel was not freed. His family said today, quote, Marc is not rich, a celebrity, or connected to powerful patrons. All he has is his family. This glaring injustice and indifference are unacceptable. It is wrong, unfair, and not the America we know and loved. What do you say to Fogel's family tonight?

FINER: Well, I'd start by agreeing with what they said about it being a -- a complete injustice that Marc Fogel continues to be held in Russia, that Marc Fogel should be released and should be allowed to come home, and that this administration will continue to work toward Marc's release and toward the release of other Americans who are held captive in -- in various countries around the world, in countries like Syria and countries like Afghanistan.

It's the other side of the coin of the question you were just asking me. We have been quite clear that this is a priority for the President. It has been from the beginning of the administration. And we're going to continue to work on those cases, including Marc's.

BROWN: All right, Jon Finer, thank you. We'll be right back.

[17:39:51]

FINER: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:44:05]

BROWN: Well, today CNN is learning that one of the top contenders vying to be Kamala Harris's running mate has just canceled his weekend events. That would be Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. And Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker has had two VP vetting interviews just this week, according to a person familiar. Let's discuss with our panel. Jeff, interesting timing here as Harris is expected to announce her pick in just days on Tuesday. Walk us through the say the VP seats right now.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, we know that she's closing in on her decision. Time is running out for her to meet that deadline of next Tuesday. That's when she's going to hit the road and begin campaigning across battleground states. So we know that she is in the final days of that and going through all the vetting, of course. But I'm told in the coming days she'll be actually having meetings with these contenders herself. It's unclear if those are in person or virtual.

Once upon a time, it would have been unthinkable to not meet face to face with someone. But she, of course, was interviewed by Joe Biden virtually. We've changed everything about how we have our meetings these days, I mean, since the pandemic, so it's -- it's unclear. But I'm thinking back to the summer of 2008, when Joe Biden was hiding in a Minneapolis hotel room when Barack Obama was there for a campaign event. I was covering Obama. We didn't know that Biden was going to have his meeting with him there.

[17:45:25]

So it was always face to face meetings. Now, it's unclear. But look, we do know that it's still those governors and Shapiro is at the top of so many people's lists, and canceling his weekend schedule certainly leads one to believe that he may have another big meeting on his schedule. And that could be a conversation with Vice President Harris. But look, only she had just a couple advisors know.

BROWN: Wow, very close hold at this moment. Arit, I want to bring you in. You've been following the potential VP buzz around Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Tell us what you're hearing.

ARIT JOHN, CNN REPORTER: What's interesting about Secretary Buttigieg is that you don't traditionally a cabinet secretary, that's not really the straight ticket to getting on the ticket. But same thing in 2020, being the mayor of the fourth largest state in Indiana, is not traditionally how you win the Iowa caucuses. But he has this sort of online army of like devoted fans who have been really boosting him. He's been out doing the daily show doing "Fox News," continuing all of these T.V. appearances. And that's sort of where the buzz around him comes from.

So it's more organic, more sort of people just, the more they see him, the more they like him, then it's -- but it's all the questions of well, he's not bringing the electoral votes of -- of a Shapiro in Pennsylvania or a Mark Kelly in Arizona. Yes, he moved to Michigan, but it's not the same thing. So I think right now, it's sort of like this enthusiasm around him and his future. So even if it's not this time, you know, I've talked to people said, you know, he's going to be on a ticket in my lifetime. The question is, when -- how many years from now, how many cycles for now is that going to be?

BROWN: And I'm going to ask you, Jeff, you know, historically, as we've talked about, the VP pick doesn't really, you know, lead to a ton of votes, right? I mean, that -- that's what we've seen historically. But as we see everything around J.D. Vance play out, of course, Trump's VP pick and all of his past comments and Trump's having to explain his pick. And therefore, it does make you wonder how much a VP pick can potentially hurt the person at the top of the ticket, if not careful?

ZELENY: It's such a great question. I mean, always the do no harm is that the, you know, the top indicator for a running mate? Look, I think that that's why the vetting is so important here. But as Arit was saying, I mean, is it going to be biographical? And if that was the case, Mark Kelly from Arizona kind of leads that path there. He is the biography of a Navy pilot and astronaut, if it's going to be geographical, Pennsylvania is a state that you need to win.

So I don't know that the running mate is going to make a difference at the end of the day. But it certainly makes a difference at the moment here and what J.D. Vance has struggled with, has been trying to keep up that momentum from the Republican Convention, and it simply did not happen. Sort of the energy and unity there broke down a little bit. So that's what Democrats are hoping to avoid.

BROWN: All right, thank you all so much, Jeff Zeleny, Arit John, appreciate it.

And coming up, how residents of America's hottest big city are adapting as climate change pushes temperatures to the extreme.

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[17:52:29]

BROWN: Well, new CNN reporting on how one city is struggling to find ways to cope as temperatures rise, CNN's Bill Weir reports.

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BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sunniest big city in America is shattering the worst kind of records for relentlessly high temperatures and the body count that follows.

CAPT. ROBERT MCDADE, PHOENIX FIRE DEPARTMENT: It's so dangerous. We're in that critical area. They're literally, it's cooking of the brain and really the organs are starting to shut down.

CAPT. JOHN PRATO, PHOENIX FIRE DEPARTMENT: We're trying to get them below that heat stroke range before we even get to the hospital.

WEIR (voice-over): After the heat killed 645 souls in Maricopa County last year, body bags and ice are now standard equipment on every ambulance and fire truck. As Phoenix learns the hard way that it's not just the heat, it's the vulnerability.

MCDADE: As always, the most vulnerable population in our communities are the young and the old. We unfortunately had a fatality one of our hiking trails with a 10-year-old. We have elderly people that can't compensate as well in their homes if their air conditioning is out. We have a lot of our folks that do landscaping, construction. They're working outside. We need to get to them. And then, of course, we have our unhoused, there are population that's out on the streets trying to seek coverage.

WEIR: Hey, brother, you need some water? I have some ice.

MAYOR KATE GALLEGO, PHOENIX, ARIZONA: One challenge that's very much on my mind is about 65 percent of the people we've lost recently had an addiction. WEIR (voice-over): Kate Gallego studied environmental science at Harvard, and when she became Phoenix mayor five years ago, she learned quickly how an overheated environment adds life or death urgency to common problems like affordable housing and addiction.

GALLEGO: We lost way too many people who were under the influence of methamphetamines and didn't go inside or didn't cool down when they needed to.

DR. EUGENE LIVAR, CHIEF HEAT OFFICER, STATE OF ARIZONA: These are self-contained, solar modified shipping containers that can operate for up to 12 hours without being plugged into any energy resource.

WEIR (voice-over): The crisis spurred both the creation of Arizona's first chief heat officer.

WEIR: Oh, yes, it feels nice.

WEIR (voice-over): And the conversion of 18 cooltainers to get people off the scorching streets.

GERI BLAKE, REGISTERED NURSE, TERROS HEALTH: Can you sit up for me, please?

We got to work on hydration.

WEIR (voice-over): Overnight temps can stay above 90. So Phoenix now has its first 24-hour cooling centers. And since neighborhoods with lots of trees can be around 20 degrees cooler than those without, both city and state have laid out policies of shade equity.

WEIR: Your office is very hot, Jennifer.

JENNIFER VANOS, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, SCHOOL OF SUSTAINABILITY, ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY: This is --

[17:55:00]

WEIR: This is your office.

VANOS: -- this is my office, yes.

WEIR (voice-over): Informed by science that measures how heat bounces off concrete.

VANOS: We chose to live in the desert. It's hot no matter what. But how can we create microclimates that are cooler than the surrounding environment? And also, how can we reduce the temperature of the surrounding environment?

WEIR (voice-over): Phoenix is among the Arizona cities set to share in the $1.5 billion set aside for urban tree planting in the Inflation Reduction Act. And in a land of low slung construction, they want more urban canyons and built breezeways.

GALLEGO: When I was first elected, we pushed buildings to not go into the public sidewalk areas. And now we're saying we want to encourage it. We have a goal for 70 percent of our heavily walked areas to have shade cover because it can make a huge difference in how comfortable you are outside.

WEIR (voice-over): But this takes time and the heat won't wait. So day to day, it's about saving lives, one icy body bag at a time.

MCDADE: Come talk to us. We'll tell you what we've learned. Don't underestimate it. Buy the bigger ice machines. Be prepared. Get ready.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR: In just the last seven years, heat deaths have more than quadrupled. In Maricopa County, this summer is running five to six degrees hotter. So, Pam, on a world overheated by fossil fuel pollution, we have to look to these desert cities to see how adaptation really works in real time.

BROWN: Yes. And that's why your reporting is so important. Bill Weir, thank you.

Coming up, we are just hours away now from witnessing a long awaited site. Americans freed from a Russian prison set to land back here in the U.S.

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