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Plane Crash Kills At Least 61 People In Brazil; Trump In Montana As Harris And Walz Ramp Up Battleground Blitz; Harris Campaign: Trump "Too Lazy" To Campaign In Swing States; Trump Dodges question On Florida Abortion Referendum; "He's Dreaming": Former San Francisco Mayor Laughs Off Trump Story About Helicopter Trip; Renewed Push For Ceasefire As Israel Braces For Strikes; Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI), Is Interviewed About Harris And Walz Taking Battleground Tour To Arizona; Haitian PM's Security Responds To Gun Fire During CNN Interview. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 09, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news out of Brazil, at least 61 people are dead after a passenger plane crashed into multiple homes near Sao Paulo. The Brazilian president says everyone aboard appears to have died. Right now, we're learning new information about the aircraft's final moments.

Plus, Donald Trump is about to hold his first rally since the new Democratic ticket was officially announced. The former president in Montana tonight, as Vice President Kamala Harris and Governor Tim Walz continue their battleground swing in Arizona.

And here in the Middle East, there's renewed pressure to restart cease fire and hostage deal talks. Israel, indeed, the entire region still bracing for an expected attack from Hezbollah, perhaps within days.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Tel Aviv Israel, and you're in the Situation Room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: Let's get straight to the breaking news, the deadly plane crash in Brazil. New video from the scene shows the aircraft spiraling out of control as it plunges 17,000 feet from the sky. CNN, Isa Soares is gathering the latest information for us.

Isa, what are we learning about how this plane went down?

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, Wolf. Absolutely terrifying images you're looking there on your screen, a passenger plane carrying 57 passage and four crew members, spirals out of the sky. It's falling out of the sky, as you saw in that video, crashing in the western part of Vinhedo just outside the outskirts of Sao Paulo. And you're seeing the plane crashing there, spiraling out of the sky. This is flight 2283 on an ATR 72 plane, traveling from Cascavel in the state of Parana, going to Guarulhos in Sao Paulo, just one state across, Wolf. This is about a 90-minute flight or so. This is a domestic flight. I would assume would have happened very frequently. It's spiraling out of control, as you see there in that footage, dropping about 17,000 feet in just one minute. And bear in mind, as we look at this footage, the loss of high life here, 57 passengers, four crew members, many families mourning them this hour.

And it fell in a residential there area in Vinhedo. That's someone's backyard, and you can see the wreckage of the plane on that ground. Now we know no local authorities are telling us that luckily, no one has been injured, no one has died as a result of the crash in that -- in Vinhedo area, but incredibly concerning, a crisis cabinet has been called emergency scene are on the ground.

And we will have some clarity, Wolf, and this is important because a black box has been found on the crash site. Medical teams are on the ground trying to identify the victims, but given the wreckage we are seeing right now, Wolf, many of the big victims being told are so badly burned that is making it very difficult for visual identification, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, that video, the pictures are so, so heartbreaking. Isa, thank you very much. Isa Soares reporting for us.

Also want to bring in CNN's Tom Foreman. He's taking a closer look at the crash. Tom, what do we know about the conditions in the area before this plane went down?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We know the skies were clear. We know that there was some concern in this area about the possibility of colder temperatures up high. We don't know the details of that right now, but I do know that this particular type of plane has had some troubles in the past, occasionally, with their ability to handle some icing conditions. I only say that, since there have been other incidents that have involved icing.

This is what Isa was talking about there, though. They were at about 17,000 feet, they lost altitude for about eight seconds, they gained altitude again for about eight seconds or so, and stayed up there a little bit, and then they began this tumultuous fall here. Take a look at the falling again. This is what many investigators are going to look at a lot. There is no sign, really, of this plane having any forward momentum whatsoever, but rather falling, kind of like a leaf, sort of a flat spin, as many aviation analysts will call it.

What does that mean in the circumstance? Well, it calls into the question why the plane did not seem to have any forward thrust. I'm not saying at all that the question before it hit the ground here and all of this carnage hit, I'm not saying at all that we know what happened, but we do want to know what questions will be asked.

[17:05:15]

One of the questions, this is the model of plane, this isn't the plane, but the model of plane. One of the questions that will be asked is, yes, was everything being operated correctly on the plane? There was an incident in Nepal last year in which it was determined that the feathering of these blades, these propeller blades, had played a role in losing a tremendous amount of air speed. Seemed to be a pilot error in that case that they were looking at. But then they have to ask, because there was a mechanical issue, was there some kind of icing up above as has happened in some other crashes?

Did that cause them to lose air speed, or was it something altogether different? There are many questions here. But they're going to look at all of that. They're going to look at the layout of the plane itself, how it was loaded with people, and all that critical information from the boxes on board to tell them what went wrong that led to this really unbelievable series of events that culminated here in the last few minutes. Wolf.

BLITZER: So, so scary. Tom Foreman, thank you very much for that update.

I want to bring in CNN safety analyst David Soucie as well as CNN's Richard Quest. We'll get some analysis from these experts.

Richard, we're watching this plane drop out of the sky. Now that authorities have found the black box, what will they be able to learn about how this happened?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: They'll be able to learn a huge amount of information, particularly the inputs that the pilots did. So first of all, you will see exactly how all the control surfaces of the plane were reacting. You will see the state of the engines. You will see minute by minute, second by second, millisecond, sometimes exactly how this played out. And then, crucially, Wolf, you'll see what the pilots did.

Something happened, they responded, something happened and onwards in the both of the cockpit voice data recorder and the voice recorder, because you are going to hear the pilots talking to each other. It is one of the most painful parts of an investigation. As David Soucie knows only too well when you actually hear the voices of those who have perished describing that -- the moment of extremists as the plane goes down.

BLITZER: So painful to see that plane just go down knowing that there are all those people on the plane as well.

David, the flight data shows that the plane lost altitude a minute and a half before crashing. What's your analysis of what potentially went wrong during that -- at those crucial moments?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, I wanted to touch just real quick, if you don't mind, Wolf, about what Richard had said about the data, not only does it tell you what the pilots did, but it tells you that if the pilots did something was it actually carried out. So, that's the first thing I'd be looking at, is the icing at this point. That seems to be, you know, Occam's Razor at this point to be able to say that something that would take the aircraft out of the air that quickly. Even if the propellers were feathered as in the prior accident that was mentioned by Tom earlier, I don't see that that fits the profile for what happened here. It appears that additional weight and former the wing, formation of the wing due to the icing is what -- is my most likely probable cause at this point.

But again, there are so many things that we don't know at this point.

BLITZER: And Richard, this comes -- this crash comes at a time of heightened scrutiny around air safety, as we all know, put this moment into some perspective for us.

QUEST: Right. Two ways. Number one, the maintenance of this aircraft. How well had it been looked after? Had there been any repairs done? Were they done properly?

What was the log and what is the paper record that shows how that plane has been treated for the last few years? That's your safety issue. That's -- and it's no connection, of course to what we've heard, of course, with Boeing, et cetera, et cetera, but that shows you a safety issue and how this plays out. So you're going to be looking at exactly what has been done on that plane, when, how and how was it done properly.

And then secondly, the pilots, unfortunately, the pilots and the training, the safety issue there. Were they well rested? How were they trained? Were they up to the standard necessary? All the issues about -- and bearing in mind, of course, Wolf, the circumstances that they were presented with was a non-recoverable stall.

So by the time you see that horrific plane falling out the sky, it's too late. There's almost nothing they could have done and -- practically. But go back before 90 seconds, what could they have done? Were they trained properly? Is there something the industry needs to learn about this?

[17:10:04]

BLITZER: Got to learn the lessons indeed. Richard Quest and David Soucie, to both of you, thank you very, very much for your analysis.

Coming up, we'll go live to the campaign trail in the United States as Kamala Harris and Tim Walz visit key battleground Arizona while Donald Trump rallies the Republican faithful in the solid red state of Montana. You're watching the situation room. We're live from Tel Aviv, Israel.

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BLITZER: Tonight, the race for the White House heads west. Vice President Kamala Harris and her running mate, Governor Tim Walz, are hitting the battleground state of Arizona as Donald Trump tries to reclaim the spotlight with a rally in Montana. I want to bring in CNN's Alayna Treene, she's out there on the campaign trail watching all of this. She's with Trump out in Bozeman, Montana.

[17:15:00]

Alayna, what is Trump's goal tonight? ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Wolf, it's interesting because Montana is a deeply red state. It's obviously not considered a battleground. And I know from my conversation with Trump senior advisers, they're not worried about their ability to win this in the fall. Instead, he's coming there to Big Sky Country to stomp for Tim Sheehy. He's the Senate Republican candidate here. He's a former Navy SEAL as well as a businessman.

I'm told, he will be appearing on stage with Donald Trump tonight, and he's going to be locked in a very tight race against Jon Tester, the long serving Democrat from this state, also very red Senate Democrat, I should say, in a red state. And so, that's really the goal of this today. But it's interesting, Wolf, because -- it's interesting he's coming to a place that is not a battleground. This is something he actually addressed yesterday at his press conference at Mar-a-Lago, where our own Kristen Holmes asked him, you know, what about the questions for why you haven't been as active on the trail. He said, look, I don't think I need to get out there as active until after the Democratic National Convention.

He said that polls were higher for him. Of course, we know in recent weeks, with Harris now at the top of the ticket, the polls are much closer. So it is an interesting choice. So, when I talk to Donald Trump's team about what exactly we should expect to hear from him in these remarks, they said will be a typical stump speech. But of course, again, with the key focus on helping them clinch the Senate seat and also in their goals to win back the majority for Republicans in the fall. Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, I suspect he also wants to be at a rally where he knows in advance he's going to get a lot of supporters out there, enthusiastic supporters for him.

TREENE: Yes.

BLITZER: Alayna Treene, thank you very much. We'll watch what's going on.

Want to go to CNN's Eva McKend right now. She's following the Harris campaign in Glendale, Arizona for us.

Eva, what do we expect to hear from Harris and Walz later tonight?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the vice president is no stranger to Arizona. This is her fourth time visiting the state for the year. She's expected to talk about reproductive rights. She will, of course, have to address this issue of immigration in this border state. I'm curious to see how she does this, how she strikes this balance.

There will be immigrants' rights activists standing behind her, I'm told. And this comes at a time when she had a new ad today, sort of branding herself as a border state prosecutor from her previous work. So how does she thread that needle? We will see tonight.

Also on stage with her tonight, Wolf, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, who, of course, was in the running to be her potential running mate, as well as his wife, former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Lots of energy and enthusiasm in this crowd. Long lines to get in here in this 100 degree heat. So just shows you how committed her supporters are. Wolf.

BLITZER: Eva McKend reporting for us in Arizona. Eva, thank you very much.

Our political experts are joining us right now with more analysis. And let's start with SE Cupp.

SE, watch how Trump explained his recent absence from the battleground states. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Because I'm leading by a lot and because I'm letting their convention go through, and I am campaigning a lot. I'm doing tremendous amounts of taping here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You know, but SE, as our latest CNN poll of polls shows this is a neck and neck race right now with both candidates actually tied at 49 percent. So what do you make of this?

SE CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, in some other polls, she's up in some of these battleground states. The appreciation for just how crucial these battleground states will be seems to be a bit lost on this new iteration of the Trump campaign. I think pre-Kamala Harris, Chris LaCivita and the Trump campaign really understood this. Now they seem to be a bit flummoxed and a bit lost. You know, JD Vance will be in Texas this weekend, as you mentioned, Trump will be in Montana.

These aren't states they need. The swing state voters in these battleground states are not only crucial because of the amount of delegates there, but because these voters want to hear about solutions. They don't want to hear about childless cat ladies. They don't want to litigate Kamala Harris's race. They want solutions to their problems.

So it's really important that both campaigns go to these swing states, meet with voters and talk to them about the actual issues that matter. There's a reason they're undecided and uncommitted so far, it's because they're not hearing these answers yet.

BLITZER: Important point.

Scott Jennings, the Harris campaign released a statement about Trump's schedule. Let me read part of it. "Donald Trump has not visited a swing state this week, and apparently isn't visiting any next week either. Trump is too lazy to fight for anything but himself or leave his country club, fine by us." That's the end of the quote.

[17:20:19]

Is this Trump just being lazy as the Harris campaign puts it? What do you think?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Kamala Harris is too lazy or too something to do a interview with a reporter or to hold a press conference or to answer questions about her record. So, look, I think Donald Trump's ultimately going to campaign in plenty of places, and he's already, you know, been in a lot of places. And this Montana event, by the way, is no small thing for the Republican Party. This is a huge win. If the Republicans win that Senate race, it's guaranteed they will be in the Senate majority.

So, that's a big deal for the GOP and Trump's ahead of the Republican Party. But Kamala Harris taking shots at Donald Trump for not campaigning while she is literally every single day hiding from the press and sending out anonymous press flags to change long held positions, give me a break.

BLITZER: Bill de Blasio is with us as well.

Bill, first of all, do you want to respond to what we just heard from Scott?

BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Yes, I want to say two things. First of all, you know, Montanans are historically very, very independent minded. They have had a Democratic senator for quite a while, Democratic governors in very, very recent history. I would actually say, Donald Trump appearing at this moment when he's been particularly mired in a lot of extreme talk and a lot of grievance, it actually might backfire. It actually might help Tester with swing voters in Montana, one point.

A second point, look, I think Kamala Harris is doing an amazing job, and I agree, the more she engages the media, debates, et cetera, the better she's going to do. She has momentum for an authentic reason. So it makes sense. It's a brand new campaign, brand new running mate. Focus on the rallies to begin, but then shifts to engaging the media.

I think, as many debates -- you know, I think three debates with Kamala Harris is three chances for her to win, honestly. And be open and engaging and accessible to the people, that's the look that will make people like her more, and that's a place Donald Trump can't go.

BLITZER: Let's see how that first debate goes. We'll see what happens after that.

SE, both Harris and Walz are traveling to Arizona and Nevada, two states with abortion initiatives on the ballot. Listen to what Trump is saying about how he sees the impact of this issue. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think that abortion has become much less of an issue. It's a very -- I think it's actually going to be a very small issue. I think the abortion issue has been taken down many notches. I don't think it's of -- I don't think it's a big factor anymore, really.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: So how do you see it, SE?

CUPP: Well, he's wrong. It's still a huge factor, and importantly in the states where it's actually on the ballot but also in neighboring states, states that neighbor states that have effective abortion bans. So it really is a big issue. That cuts both ways, however, and that's why it's really important for Tim Walz and Kamala Harris to get out there and lay out their agenda and talk about what they would do on this issue. Voters deserve to know.

And in Tim Walz is case, Minnesota has a very progressive policy on abortion. There is a no weak limit that is outside of the mainstream for just where a majority of Americans are. Most Americans want legal abortion, but with weak restrictions. So, that has to be reconciled. Is that his agenda?

Will that be her agenda? Will the rest of the country look like Minnesota in a Kamala Harris, Tim Walz administration? The issue is important, and it's important on both sides, and so both campaigns need to start talking very specifically, not broadly, specifically, about what they would do.

BLITZER: Scott on another issue, the former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown is responding to Trump's claim that the two of them actually took a helicopter trip together and discussed Kamala Harris. Watch this. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you were on a helicopter with him, they almost crashed?

WILLIE BROWN, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's your answer.

BROWN: He's dreaming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your reaction? Who do you believe, Bill?

JENNINGS: I have no idea. I'm not an expert in Donald Trump's helicopter rides. You got me stumped on this one, Wolf. I really have no idea. Couldn't tell you.

[17:25:04]

DE BLASIO: Wolf, I'll tell you. I was in that very same restaurant in San Francisco two weeks ago with Willie Brown. And I would believe Willie Brown any day of the week over Donald Trump.

And I want to just go back one other quick step on the question of abortion, it's going to be a big deal in Nevada. It's on the ballot in Nevada. That's a crucial state now back in play because of Kamala Harris. So I think abortion is going to loom large, and it's the first chance the women of America get to confront Donald Trump with their vote, the guy who took away abortion rights from them. So I think it's absolutely consequential in this election.

BLITZER: Yes, we'll see what happens on that issue as well. Everyone, thank you very, very much.

Up next, there's more news we're following here in the Situation Room. We're live in Israel right now. Officials here are on very high alert for a potential attack by Hezbollah as we learn more about strikes in Gaza and Lebanon today, which could potentially further inflame tensions. We'll talk to our experts that's coming up next.

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[17:30:29]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're back. We're reporting live from Israel right now. Today, an airstrike in Gaza killed 22 people, including children and journalists, according to a Khan Yunis Hospital as the Israel Defense Forces say they are launching another military operation in the area, to quote, degrade Hamas. All this amid a new push of ceasefire and hostage talks that are ongoing.

I want to bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond. He's joining us from Haifa, here in Israel and Alex Marquardt is back in Washington. I'll start with you, Alex. So what do we know about next week's proposed ceasefire talks? They're supposed to take place what either in Cairo or Qatar next Thursday, right?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, these discussions are moving again, so that is a positive sign. But by no means is this a done deal. The U.S. is operating under the assumption that there will be another cease fire meeting next week, next Thursday, on the 15th in either Doha or Cairo, the Israelis have said that they will be sending a delegation. There is no confirmation yet from the Hamas side, but it is believed that Qatar will be able to convince them to go.

This follows that remarkable statement that was released by the leaders of the three mediating countries, the U.S., Qatar and Egypt, in which they really highlight the urgency of a ceasefire. Now, an express a bit of exasperation, I want to read you part of this, this statement, Wolf. They say that there is, quote, a framework agreement that is now on the table with only the details of inflammation -- implementation left to conclude. There is no further time to waste nor excuses from any party for further delay. It is time to release the hostages, begin the ceasefire and implement this agreement.

Now, Wolf, for the past few weeks, U.S. officials have been quite optimistic that a deal could be struck. And then the political leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, was killed in Tehran in an operation believed to have been carried out by Israel. And that really put the talks on hold. U.S. officials do believe, and the White House held a call a short time ago that they are still extremely close to a deal, that the gaps can be bridged. They admit they're around four to five issues that still need to be ironed out. I can tell you from my reporting, these are significant issues. There is still a lot of work to be done. And in the next week, the technical teams from these different countries will work on these issues ahead of that planned meeting in Thursday next week, as you say, Wolf, either in Cairo or in Doha.

BLITZER: We'll see which -- where -- where these talks take place, assuming they will take place, which is very, very significant. Jeremy, you're up there in Haifa right now. The timing of these latest IDF strikes in Gaza is clearly notable given the upcoming ceasefire talks. What are you learning?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: No doubt about it, Wolf. The Israeli military's campaign in Gaza is continuing unabated. We watched today as the Israeli military begin a new offensive in Khan Yunis. Just a couple of weeks after they withdrew from Eastern Khan Yunis, they are now pushing in again, and that is forcing the displacement of some 60,000 Palestinians who were seen today walking through an -- an absolutely devastated city as they look for some kind of security. About 22 people were killed in air strikes in southern Gaza over the course of the last 24 hours.

And so this is the Israeli military's way of showing that this campaign is going to continue until there is a ceasefire. And for now, it certainly is not within -- within reach. They are also showing that they're going to continue to target Hamas leaders, wherever they may be, even as we are seeing this region increasingly on edge because of the Israeli strikes that took out a senior Hezbollah commander in Beirut and Hamas' top political leader in the Iranian capital.

Earlier today, Israel taking out a senior Hamas commander in Lebanon, some 30 miles from the Lebanese border, in an area that they don't usually carry out strikes in. And so obviously they are showing that they will continue to carry out these actions even as the tensions remain high. The main question, Wolf, is whether or not that potential -- those potential ceasefire talks, could potentially a -- a -- avert or -- or avoid a retaliation from Iran or from its proxy in Lebanon Hezbollah.

Hezbollah increasingly appears potentially poised to carry out a strike on its own, independent of Iranian action, independent of Iranian decisions. That remains to be seen, whether or not these talks could change that. Right now, very, very unclear. Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes. And I'm told that Hezbollah potential attack against Israel could take place within, quote, days, talking about days right now. All right, Jeremy Diamond and Alex Marquardt, thanks to both of you very, very much.

[17:35:08]

I want to bring in CNN political and global affairs analyst, Barak Ravid, right now. Barak, is there any sense restarting ceasefire talks could prevent a major retaliation against Israel from Iran and or Hezbollah in Lebanon? BARAK RAVID, CNN FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Well, Wolf, I don't know about Hezbollah, but Iran definitely. Just a few minutes ago, the Iranian mission to the U.N. issues a very unusual interesting statement saying that it -- that Iran's top priority is a ceasefire agreement in Gaza, and that it hopes that end response, it will conduct against Israel. The timing and the scope of such a response will not hamper and will not damage the efforts to get a ceasefire in Gaza.

So I think that's a signal from the Iranians that maybe they will be able to hold their -- their response until they see what happens next Thursday in the final round of the ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas.

BLITZER: Yes, Thursday will be a critical, very critical day, indeed. What are the biggest sticky points, Barak, in the ceasefire negotiations?

RAVID: I think, you know, U.S. official told me yesterday that there are four or five different points. For example, there is Prime Minister Netanyahu's demand that there will be some sort of a monitoring mechanism to prevent weapons from being transferred from Southern Gaza to Northern Gaza. There's no solution to this thing yet. There's the issue of the Philadelphia corridor and the border between Gaza and Egypt. There needs to be a security arrangement there.

It still hasn't been concluded, and there are issues of who are the prisoners that will be released. The names are critical, because Hamas would want the most dangerous prisoners or the most -- those who -- who are serving the -- the highest sentences in Israeli prisons to be released. And obviously, Israel doesn't want those people to be out of prison. Another issue is, Israel wants most of those prisoners to be deported outside, to -- to outside of the West Bank and Gaza to somewhere else in the world, maybe Algeria, maybe Iraq, maybe Doha, maybe Tehran, they don't want them to stay in the West Bank and Gaza.

All of those issues are still open. So, you know, the -- the talks that will take place next Thursday are not the end. They're the beginning of a very, very, very complicated process that, if successful, will lead to a deal within a few days. But if not, it could potentially lead to a much bigger escalation in the region.

BLITZER: And in the meantime, the tension here in Tel Aviv and I assume throughout Israel, whether in Jerusalem or Haifa or anyplace else, is extremely high right now. Barak Ravid, thank you very much for that update. Appreciate it very much.

Just ahead, more on the race for the White House, as Donald Trump holds his first rally since the new Democratic ticket became official. Michigan Congresswoman Debbie Dingell standing by live. She'll join us here in the Situation Room. That's next.

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[17:42:18] BLITZER: Let's turn back to the race for the White House as Kamala Harris and Tim Walz take their battleground tour to the crucial state of Arizona after a campaign swing through the Midwest this week. Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of the key battleground state of Michigan. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. As you know, border security is obviously a very important issue in Arizona. In a recent poll, Americans say Trump would perform better on immigration than Kamala Harris, 52 percent to 46 percent. How does Kamala Harris convince voters she can be trusted on this critically important issue?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Well, good evening, Wolf, and it's good to see you. And I'll tell you, last week in Michigan, I had a group of IBEW workers from Arizona who had some very tough conversation for me, and immigration was one of them. And, you know, I went back at them and said, we need a comprehensive immigration reform for decades, and that when Republicans and Democrats worked together in the Senate and had a deal that would have actually done something, former President Trump said, no. I don't want to deal. I don't agree to it.

I think Kamala Harris is going to roll up her sleeves. He knows that we've got to do everything we can to keep our nation safe. And at the same time, we need comprehensive immigration reform. She's going to bring people together, not play political games, and she's not afraid to address these tough things.

BLITZER: Congresswoman, the Harris campaign clearly believes Tim Walz can help the Democratic ticket appeal to Midwestern voters. But he garnered the same share of the vote in his most recent election as Biden did back in 2020. So is his appeal to independent voters overstated?

DINGELL: Look, you know, I -- you know how I am, Wolf, I sometimes look at all of these different things and say, what do they mean? You know, everybody told me Hillary Clinton was going to win, because the polls don't if she was going to win and she didn't. I --I know Tim Walz and I know how he reacts, how he relates to people, how really he is, how he's going to be able, he has Midwest value that he's going to go out and be able to go in rural communities. He's going to talk to be able to -- he was very, I took the number of the union workers that were there and heard him yesterday at local 900 of the UAW.

I think he is as real as they come. This is not a guy that's going to be a talking point candidate. And not like J.D. Vance, who is the gift that keeps on giving to us as Democrats. Yes, I think he will be able to relate strongly in the Midwest.

[17:45:05]

BLITZER: As you know, Congresswoman, Kamala Harris is receiving criticism for not having done an interview with a journalist since Biden stepped away from the race. Is this a mistake?

DINGELL: You know, I know it's hard for all of us to recognize that the world turned upside down in the last month, and she has only -- she has not yet been the candidate for a week, let alone even the, you know, it would look like go to her for two weeks. This is somebody who's still trying to do her day job, who is traveling around the country, trying to get a staff into place.

And, you know, the last two weeks have been incredibly chaotic. And she was in Michigan, came in on Wednesday night, was here during the day. She was doing a lot of just nitty-gritty work. People didn't see her. Know what she was not -- not know what she was doing. She's been in national security meetings. So I'm sure that she is going to give those interviews at the right time. But it's been two weeks, Wolf, it's not been two weeks. Let's give her time to get into place where she's -- what she's doing right now.

BLITZER: Of course, if she decides to do an interview, she's always welcome to join me here in The Situation Room. Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thanks very much for joining us. We always appreciate having you in The Situation Room.

Coming up, a CNN exclusive in Haiti, as the country brings in outside help to combat gang violence. We're going to show you what the Haitian Prime Minister's security team did as gunfire rang out near -- nearby during an interview with CNN.

And we're also learning more about that plane crash in Brazil that killed more than 60 people. Stand by. We'll be right back.

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[17:51:06]

BLITZER: A CNN exclusive now from Haiti, inside a U.S. funded operation to combat the rising deadly threat of gangs in the country. Some of the security forces helping in this multinational operation are from Kenya. Only CNN was granted access to see what they're up against. Here's CNN's Larry Madowo.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

LARRY MADOWO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gun battles rage on the street outside one of Haiti's biggest hospitals. Kenyan police here to help local forces take back the capital from the gangs. The first 400 officers from Nairobi quickly learning how volatile Port-au-Prince can be.

Minutes earlier, CNN was touring what is left of the hospital after gangs trashed it. The country's interim prime minister telling us it was just reclaimed.

GARRY CONILLE, INTERIM HAITIAN PRIME MINISTER: There is no tactical or strategic value for the gangs taking over this. This is really just about, you know, completely discrediting the state.

MADOWO: Is enough funding coming through for the multinational security support mission here? CONILLE: Unfortunately, not enough and not quickly enough. Now we understand there are a lot of emergencies going on out there. And we understand there is, to a certain extent, some Haiti fatigue. The good news is that there is hope.

MADOWO (voice-over): Midway through the interview, shots ring out.

MADOWO: Right.

CONILLE: This was really --

MADOWO (voice-over): The security details springs into action.

MADOWO: We've been told we have to leave now. We've had shots in the air. The gangs are getting close up.

MADOWO (voice-over): The prime minister and our team are rushed away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go, go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got your microphone.

MADOWO (voice-over): The constant menace of gang violence dominating life here, even for the country's leader.

As night falls, we head out on patrol with Kenya's elite police forces who have been brought in to help turn things around.

MADOWO: They're using four of these American supplied MRAPs or tactical vehicles, and we're going to patrol from the airport, which used to be under gang control until very recently, into the downtown area, which is still contested.

MADOWO (voice-over): CNN was granted exclusive access to film the Kenyans leading an international security force that is expected to grow to 2,500 officers from 12 countries, funded mainly by the United States. Haitian police lead the way as a convoy scan surrounding buildings for any suspicious activity. We soon come under fire. Thousands of bullets hit the vehicles.

MADOWO: The officers are very casual about it. They're calling it rain. I guess they're used to it. Just -- we're hearing a few more from this side of the truck.

MADOWO (voice-over): Some of these men in Haiti say they have fought al-Qaeda affiliated terrorists on the Kenya-Somalia border.

MADOWO: Do you think you guys can bring peace here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a lot of confidence that we are going to win this battle.

MADOWO (voice-over): More gun shots as we turn back, but the police decide not to engage. Back at headquarters, the damage from the night becomes clear. With 85 percent of Port-au-Prince under gang control, civilians here are paying a heavy price. This is one of the few operational hospitals in the capital, located in the city's red zone and surrounded by gang territory.

Twenty-two-year-old Nehteli Mahty (ph) has brought her malnourished baby in for treatment. She was raped by a gang member, she tells me, and has had to flee her home because of the violence. The hospital lost half of its staff last year. Those remaining are determined not to give up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to fight back.

MADOWO: You can't leave it for the gang members?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't leave it for gang. Someone has to fight back. Someone has to stand up.

[17:55:00]

MADOWO (voice-over): With an estimated 2 million Haitians living in fear of being raped or killed in their homes, fighting back against the gangs is now an international effort. Haitian forces and their allies need resources, but leaders here tell us funding and equipment are not arriving fast enough.

GODFREY OTUNGE, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL SECURITY SUPPORT MISSION TO HAITI: It's a matter of support. If they can be given the equipment that they need, these are the brave and courageous people.

MADOWO (voice-over): Through it all, this wary nation still has high hopes for peace.

Larry Madowo, CNN, Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

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BLITZER: And Larry, stay safe over there. Thank you very, very much.

Coming up, we're going to bring you the latest developments after that fiery and deadly plane crash in Brazil. You're watching The Situation Room. We're live in Tel Aviv, Israel.

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