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The Situation Room
Moments Away: Third Night Of Democratic National Convention; Tonight: Tim Walz, Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi Take DNC Stage; Source: RFK Jr. Expected To End His Campaign Friday; Tonight: Walz Gives Historic Speech, Formally Accepts VP Nomination; Former Trump Aides Appear At DNC. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired August 21, 2024 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Convention floor, John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: I'm right here in the creator's platform, Jake. This is something different at this convention. They credentialed some 200 content creators. They bring them out for 10 minutes at a time.
I'm here with Grant and Ash. Everyone on TikTok knows them. What are you guys doing this week?
GRANT, CONTENT CREATOR: We're just making some silly videos looking hot, hoping it gets young people out to vote.
ASH, CONTENT CREATOR: And also, Jake Tapper, you're my celebrity crush, and we love you.
GRANT: We love your work.
BERMAN: Right.
TAPPER: There --
BERMAN: Ash and me both, Jake, so back to you up there.
TAPPER: They're officially adopted.
BERMAN: Yes.
TAPPER: I have officially adopted them as of now by decree at this convention. Thanks, Berman.
I'll be back here at 8:00 p.m. eastern for CNN special coverage of night three of the Democratic National Convention. Our coverage continues now here in Chicago with Wolf Blitzer and Erin Burnett in a special Chicago Democratic National Convention edition of the "Situation Room."
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: It is game time for Governor Tim Walz, Vice President Kamala Harris's running mate, gearing up this hour to take the stage and introduce himself to the nation. This is video of Governor Walz doing a walk through earlier, just a little bit earlier. Tonight's speech is a crucial introduction. Most Americans don't know much about him. Remember, he only joined the ticket some 15 days ago.
Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is a special edition of the Situation Room. We're live from Chicago. I'm Wolf Blitzer.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erin Burnett.
And Wolf, Walz is expected to speak more tonight about who he is, a small town upbringing he wants to emphasize, and how that, he says, led him to going from the National Guard to being a teacher and a football coach to a member of Congress, and now, of course, the sitting governor. And Walz will follow several other big names tonight who are set to speak tonight. They include former President Bill Clinton, the former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and the Transportation Secretary, Pete Buttigieg.
We are also learning that Clinton wants his 12th convention speech, 12th convention speech to match. What he says is the joy and enthusiasm surrounding the Harris campaign. A Clinton aide telling CNN that he wants to go out there and, quote, "have some fun," Wolf.
BLITZER: I suspect he will. And Erin, it is clear the Democrats in this arena, where we are right now, are having some fun. Jeff Zeleny and Kaitlan Collins are both with us. They're here in Chicago. I want to begin with Jeff.
A lot of anticipation going into this night three. And tonight we'll hear from former President Bill Clinton. What can we expect? What do you suspect we will hear from him?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is the 12th Democratic Convention that former President Bill Clinton has addressed going way back to 1980 when he was a young rising governor from Arkansas. And this is the first major address to a Democratic Convention that Governor Tim Walz will make tonight. That bookend will be extraordinary, there is no doubt about it. But first the former president, I'm told that he is going to talk about the economy, and the words of one advisor in the way that only Bill Clinton can. Of course, the economy is front and center in this election for all of the other issues, for all of the other extraneous, sometimes distractions, as we talk to voters across the country, pocketbook issues, the economy is at the heart of the matter.
That is what Bill Clinton, I'm told, will address tonight in a policy driven matter, as well as decency. I'm told that he will talk about the former president in ways that also perhaps only he can. He's known Donald Trump for a very long time, but his speech tonight is intended to reach out to some of the swaths of the country that supported Bill Clinton a couple times, including back here in 1996 when he was standing on this very stage accepting the nomination for his reelection. But it is the speech from Governor Tim Walz, no doubt, that will be the highlight of the evening. He is going to try and fill in some of the blanks around him.
He's been thrust into the limelight, really, in the last couple weeks or so, you know, and most people do not know him. For Democrats, that's an opportunity, but it's also, of course, an opportunity for Republicans to try and define him as well. He will do so on his own terms here tonight. But Wolf, we're also keeping an eye on former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She, of course, is the legendary Democratic leader whose fingerprints are also all over this entire new Democratic ticket behind the scenes, she worked, as we know, to urge President Biden to come to the realization that this was not the moment for his reelection.
I'm told she is not going to address any of that this evening. But of course, she'll be lifting up Kamala Harris. But Wolf, a very big evening tonight. But Bill Clinton, number 12 here, back in Chicago.
BLITZER: Yes, he is. All right, Jeff Zeleny, thank you very, very much.
And joining us now, someone who worked very closely with Vice President Harris in the White House, knows her well. President Biden's former White House Chief of Staff, Ron Klain.
Ron, thanks very much for joining us. As you know, Kamala Harris --
RON KLAIN, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thanks for having me, Wolf.
BLITZER: -- and Tim Walz are still relatively unknown, and the GOP is painting Governor Walz as an unreliable narrator. What does they need to do at this convention tonight and tomorrow night?
[17:05:06]
KLAIN: Well, look, I think we had a great first two days in the convention. We heard from a lot of our party's heavyweights, President Obama, President Biden, Senator Schumer, Senator Sanders, speaker -- Secretary Clinton, tonight, we'll hear from President Clinton. The heavyweights have done their job. Now it's time for the candidates to speak for themselves. Governor Walz tonight, and Vice President Harris tomorrow night.
I think, will do an excellent job of laying out their credentials, their background. You know, Governor Walz is the first time a public school teacher has ever been on a national campaign ticket in America, it's a very important job in the country. It's odd that no one has ever reached this high. He'll be speaking for teachers and families all over the country. I think people really connect with Tim Walz.
He's a great leader, a great governor. He's delivered in the state of Minnesota. He brings a freshness to the ticket. And I'm really looking forward to the vice president tomorrow night. I think she's she is obviously very famous, but not as well-known as she should be.
She's done a great job as vice president. She's ready to be president. I thought Mr. Emhoff, her husband's speech last night was excellent in terms of introducing her as a person, as a parent. Watching Ella Emhoff nod as her father went through how the vice president as a parent to the entire Emhoff family, was an incredibly moving moment. I think it's a nod that should change the country. And people see her as a mother, as someone who is a wonderful woman who has been a great leader as vice president and now will be our next president.
BLITZER: And one highlight that will certainly occur later tonight is when former President Bill Clinton addresses this convention and indeed the nation. How does he connect to younger voters, though, and this new moment for Democrats?
KLAIN: Well, we've heard from great young leaders all week. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was fantastic. Jasmine Crockett, Jack Schlossberg, Mallory, McMorrow from Michigan, great young leaders in our party speaking. And what President Clinton can do uniquely, so he could talk about economic progress, what Democrats have done to get the economy back on track these past four years, and our willingness to stand for working people. And President Clinton is a unique narrator on that.
He's incredibly effective. He'll reach independents and all kinds of people around the country. I think he'll give great speech tonight. But the big event tonight is Governor Walz, and tomorrow night, the vice president herself.
BLITZER: Yes, very important speeches indeed. I'm sure he will be very well received in this crowd later tonight.
Another headliner tonight, as you know, Ron, is the former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She's a big reason we'll see Kamala Harris accept the nomination instead of President Biden. Where does the Biden-Pelosi relationship, based on what you know stand right now.
KLAIN: Look, I think President Biden Speaker Pelosi are great friends. They're always going to be great friends. And however we got here? We've gotten to a very good place as a party. We have a great ticket that's doing very well politically.
We have a presidential nominee who is ready to be president on day one, incredibly experienced, incredibly talented Vice President Harris. And so we're in a good place as a party. We're in a good place as a country. We just all need to pull together and get Harris and Walz elected this November.
BLITZER: Have you had a chance, Ron, to speak to President Biden since this convention here in Chicago began? And do you know how he received the speeches, for example, from the Obamas, from Barack Obama and Michelle Obama last night?
KLAIN: I spoke to him after his speech Monday night, and I haven't spoken to him since President Obama spoke. But I'm sure, like all Americans, he was electrified by President Obama's speech last night. President -- former president, was fantastic in terms of making the case for what Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have done these past four years, and most importantly, what Vice President Harris will do with four years of her own. I thought President Obama was a fantastic surrogate for our party last night, as he always is. And I'm sure President Biden was very impressed.
BLITZER: I'm sure he was all right. Ron Klain, thank you very much for joining us. Erin, back to you.
BURNETT: All right, Wolf. Bakari, interesting watching Wolf and Ron Klain speak. There's a lot of, you know, sort of interesting moments. But obviously, when Wolf asked Ron Klain about the relationship between Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, and you know, it was a moment of silence there, and then Ron responded. How important is Nancy Pelosi in all of this now, as we get ready to hear her speak? Especially in terms of her relationship with Kamala Harris and where she -- I mean, she played a crucial role in why we are sitting here tonight in this conversation, but where is she now?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I think Nancy Pelosi has the respect of everyone in this building. All elected Democrats would probably tell you and others that she's probably the greatest speaker that we've ever had in the history of this country. But what our party is grappling with right is that returning the page, it's a new generation of leadership. Kamala Harris represents a departure away from some of those older figureheads of the party. And by no means am I saying we're kicking Nancy to the curb or anything of the sort, but what we're showing now is with people like Gretchen Whitmer, with people like Josh Shapiro and Wes Moore and Kamala Harris, we're passing the torch to a new generation of leadership.
[17:10:10]
And for a long period of time, our party, and I said it many times, was the old, stale party. You know, all of the leaders of our party were 75 and above, the Steny Hoyers, the Chuck Schumers, the Jim Clyburns, the Nancy Pelosis, we were just an older party. And now at this convention, what you're seeing is what America looks like with this new generation of leadership. And so we respect Nancy. We hang her picture up in the house, but this is a new generation of leadership that Kamala Harris is ushering in, and I think everybody should be decently proud of that.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not sure they're hanging her picture at the Biden home, but --
SELLERS: It's in the basement.
NAVARRO: Yes, it might be turned down --
SELLERS: Turned down.
NAVARRO: -- the fire to hung it somewhere. I have to say, I have heard a lot of Democrats, people who are loyal to Biden. First, I think the relationship with Nancy Pelosi right now is probably the term complicated, like you see on Instagram and Facebook about relationships. Why? It's -- why she's speaking on Tim Walz's night.
She's not -- she certainly wasn't going to speak on Joe Biden's night. She didn't speak in Doug -- on Doug Emhoff's night. She's certainly not going to speak on Kamala Harris's night. And look, I think part of the reason is this book tour she's been on, right? Where she seems to have -- to be relishing this role she played as power broker, Nancy Pelosi likes to wield power. And even at 84 years old, she likes to wield power and not let go of that. And I think that is pouring us some salt in the wound of the Biden camp. I don't think the relationship is good. She knows it's not good, nor should it be good.
BURNETT: Well, it be interesting to see how that goes tonight. And of course, then there will be all eyes, David, on Governor Walz. So what does he need to do tonight? Does he just need to come out and be folksy and every man and leave it at that? Or what sort of biographical introduction does he need to do, especially in light of some of the controversy about the National Guard and everything else out there?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, I don't think he needs to use his convention speech to say, hey, I misspoke this one tonight.
BURNETT: Right, right.
CHALIAN: I don't think that's the purpose of a convention speech. And like he has to introduce himself to America, tell a story like you're saying, and lean into the biography. His serving the country, his being an educator and a coach. Jamie Harrison was on our air earlier today, the DNC chairman, and said coach is going to coach tonight, and so I'm sure we're going to get a pep talk for this crowd.
But I think it's really interesting, Erin, if you look at the role he's playing here, it's a complimentary role to what we'll see tomorrow night from Kamala Harris, right? What they -- if you look at the two as a package, it's sort of a yin and a yang of the widest possible appeal to voters that they're trying to make to recognize themselves in these leaders. And that's why this ticket is one that is not just a base ticket and not just a narrow cast ticket. They sort of complement each other. And so I think we're going to get one version of that story, the white guy taco version today of the ticket, and then we're going to get a little more of the, what did she say in that video, Coltrane and Miles Davis and other music, while she kind of gave a dig to Tim Walz. She's like, you like Doug Emhoff, you probably listen to Depeche Mode.
NAVARRRO: I hope, I hope he speaks about his personal story with IVF and how --
CHALIAN: IUI.
SELLERS: IUI.
NAVARRO: And how it helped them. What? It's not IVF?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen --
SELLERS: We went through that yesterday.
BURNETT: He went jumping in here too.
NAVARRO: It's I do who? BURNETT: Hold on, hold on one sec. I just literally sorry, put my hand in my ear because I was listening. So we are now able to confirm, we're getting reporting, that RFK Jr. is going to end his campaign on Friday, which we had, you know, heard, maybe the case. David, does that do anything? And we anticipate that come -- I am not sure here from the reporting.
I know there had been other reporting that that may come with a sort of Trump endorsement there in talks, all right, so we don't know where that goes. Does that matter?
URBAN: I mean, look, every percentage of vote matters, right? So, in states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, you're talking about 50,000 votes, 40,000 votes, 60,000 votes, if you get 5,000 votes from RFK, it matters in some of these states. So, yes, it matters at some point along the way.
I think governor -- I think Tim Walz has -- his role tonight is to be -- I was talking to Scott Jennings, I talked about this earlier, like bath pro Tim, right? He's come out here flannel shirt. And as David said, you know, be that white guy that's going to appeal to folks and Democrats in Erie, Pennsylvania or Scranton, like he's got to make sure that the party is big enough, give people permission to vote for him, right? Because there's a lot of -- there's a lot of -- you know, it talk about abortion and really, you know, women's issues and things. And so, if you're some white guy in Scranton, do you feel welcome here?
Tim Walz's job tonight is to make them feel welcome.
[17:15:01]
BURNETT: Yes.
NAVARRO: Right.
SELLERS: But that's -- it's not just Tim, though, because I will let you know that the big dog is coming off the porch tonight, OK? We're going to let the big (inaudible) tonight.
URBAN: But he -- he's not had a great record of giving speeches.
SELLERS: No, I'm talking about Bill Clinton.
URBAN: That's what I'm saying. He's not had a great record of giving --
SELLERS: He gave the absolute best speech of the 2012 convention, although it was 52 minutes long.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, shorter than Trump's.
NAVARRO: All right, that's a low bar.
BURNETT: I mean, I don't know to find some bar you're on the fly. All right, thanks to all of you. And our special coverage of the Democratic National Convention does continue here in just a moment, as we've got this new reporting on RFK Jr., possibly getting out of the race, what that means. And Also tonight, a look at what we're talking about, the Clinton factor, the former president speaking tonight to campaign for the Harris ticket. So, how big of an asset will he be?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to the special edition of the Situation Room. We're here in Chicago where night three of the Democratic National Convention is about to get underway. Joining us now to assess what's going on CNN's Kasie Hunt and Chris Wallace.
[17:20:11]
Before we talk about the convention tonight, the breaking news that we've been following. RFK, Jr, a man you recently interviewed, Kasie, is expected to suspend his presidential -- his independent presidential campaign on Friday, and maybe then go ahead and endorse Trump.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I spoke with him late last year as his presidential campaign was sort of just starting to pick up steam. And it became clear to me in talking to him, and I think a big part of what has driven him to this point is the fact that he spends a lot of time talking to audiences on platforms that are not in the mainstream, and he gets away with saying a lot of things, especially about vaccines, that he can't really back up, but it has gotten him some traction in the developments that have unfolded since Biden dropped out of the race, though. It has become clear that the sort of the double hater voters, people who really didn't want to vote for Biden or Donald Trump, there were less and less of them, as many came over to Harris's campaign. And his running mate recently said, well, they run the risk of Harris and Walz winning the White House if they don't get out. I think that tells you a lot about where RFK Jr., the space he really does occupy.
He's a Trumpian candidate, and the fact that we now know that he is in talks with the Trump campaign to appear on stage with him in Phoenix, I think, underscores --
BLITZER: On Friday.
HUNT: -- where he really is on Friday. Yes.
BLITZER: What do you think?
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, first of all, nobody quits the campaign because they run out of ideas or ambition. They run out -- they quit a campaign because they run out of money. And the RFK campaign, yes, even with the Kennedy money or his money was running out of funds, they were going into the black or red rather.
And so, you know, I don't think it's -- obviously you'd rather have his endorsement, I guess, than not have his endorsement. But you know, RFK Jr. is a complicated character, and getting his endorsement, as Kasie mentioned, done a lot of crazy conspiracy theories. I'm not sure in the end of the polls were very uncertain as to who we took more votes from Biden or Trump, and my guess is there are a lot of people who are attracted to the Kennedy name who would be Democrats who may now go to Kamala Harris not to Donald Trump. I'm not sure it's going to make a big difference. He was down to 4 percent, 5 percent in the polls.
That's a big number, but I was going to diminish as this campaign became more of a two person race. My guess is it's going to be kind of a wash.
BLITZER: We will find out. A huge speech coming up tonight, the former president United States, Bill Clinton, is going to be addressing this crowd, and it's going to be a huge deal.
HUNT: A big deal. Do you guys want to take bets as to how long it's going to go? Because these are usually stem winders. But obviously this is, I think, Bill Clinton's 12th convention speech, and he -- I do think it's going to be interesting to see how he plays to a crowd that really has been kind of embracing the youth and freshness of the way Kamala Harris's campaign has operate in the way -- has operated the way Harris herself operates. But obviously, you know, he -- there's going to be a lot of love in this room I think for him no matter what.
You've covered way more of Bill Clinton's speeches over the years than I have.
WALLACE: Yes, I have -- actually, I'll tell you a quick story. 2012 I was on the podium so I could see the teleprompter. He came in with about an hour speech, and they cut it down to about half an hour and took out parts. And I could see, because I was behind him, him reading the teleprompter, and at a certain point where the teleprompter would stop, he would then talk for 15 minutes in perfect syntax, clearly, he was taking the parts that they had cut out and he was just reciting them from heart.
My feeling about the importance of both him and Tim Walz tonight is, I think this convention so far has done a better job of energizing the Democratic base than it has at reaching out to those persuadable swing voters, middle Americans, Independents, who still at this late date haven't made up their minds. I think it is really important for Bill Clinton, the big dog, as he's being called, to reach out to the people who helped put him over the top in 92 and 96. And Tim Walz as well, to reach out to middle Americans and say, you know, this is not a liberal party. It's not a party where it's all about identity racial politics. This is a party where a lot of white working class people who might go for Trump, there's a place for you here, and we're looking out for you, and it's going to particularly focus on the economy, Bill Clinton's speeches about economy and value.
HUNT: Want to might remind voters how they felt about the economy when Bill Clinton was President, which was much better than how many tell pollsters that they feel now.
BLITZER: Yes, I went down Little Rock Arkansas in 1992 to start covering him when I was CNN's White House Correspondent. And there's a lot of history that he has, and a lot of history that I covered, and I'm really anxious to hear what he has to say.
[17:25:11]
WALLACE: He's not going to talk about some of that history.
BLITZER: Yes. We'll discuss. Standby.
Kasie and Chris, thank you very, very much.
Up next, we'll take you back to the floor here at the convention to hear from Director Spike Lee. He's standing by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage of night three of the Democratic National Convention. I want to go straight to CNN's Kaitlan Collins, she's down there on the convention floor for us.
Kaitlan, I understand you just interviewed a special guest. What can you tell us?
[17:30:04]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Yes, Wolf. When we were doing the roll call yesterday, we were down here covering it from the floor. You may have seen a special guest in front of New York's delegation that was Spike Lee. I just ran into him on the floor a few moments ago and asked him about what this convention means and what it means to have Vice President Harris at the ticket. This is what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: You're here at -- at the -- at the Democratic Convention. What does it mean for you to be here to see Vice President Harris as the Democratic nominee?
SPIKE LEE, OSCAR-WINNING FILM DIRECTOR: I wanted to be here. This is not history, this is her story. She's going to be the first woman to be president of the United States of America, blended family, you know, the whole Howard University, HU, you know. So this is a amazing moment history of the United States of America. And we got to go -- we got to go forward, not backwards.
We got to go forward. We got to advance. You know, I can bring equity around this nation, where -- we lead the world. So, you know, I travel a lot of times and -- out -- outside United States, and when this guy was president, people -- total strangers, will pull me and say, what the hell is going on --
COLLINS: Donald Trump?
LEE: Yes. I try not to say his name, but pewit (ph) total strangers on planes just walking around, all the world is saying it, what is wrong with America? How did that guy get elected? So those four years were the world was looking us like the side eye, like, WTF. And we know what that means. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Wolf, that was over there by the New York delegation tonight. I'm standing here by the Minnesota delegation. Obviously, maybe one of the most excited ones here on the floor. That's because a Minnesotan has not been on a major party's presidential ticket in four decades since Walter Mondale ran. And now, of course, Governor Tim Walz is preparing to speak in this convention hall tonight.
And just to give you an indication of how excited they are as all the delegates are making their ways over to their seats, they have put Governor Walz's head on a two-foot large sign to hold up tonight as he is going to be addressing this hall. And obviously, what is -- one of the biggest moments of -- of his political career, a moment for him to introduce himself. Out of all the speakers who were on that list tonight, he is probably one of the least known nationally.
And so tonight, he's going to be introducing himself, not just to those here in the room, certainly not the Minnesota delegation, but to everyone who is watching at home, Wolf.
BLITZER: And all of us here will be watching it very closely. Kaitlan, thank you very, very much. Erin, back to you.
BURNETT: All right, Wolf. And joining me now is Charlamagne tha God, host of The Breakfast Club radio show, also the author of the newest book here, Charlemagne, "Get Honest or Die Lying: Why Small Talk Sucks."
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, RADIO HOST: What's up, Erin?
BURNETT: And also the co-founder of Reasoned Choice Media and Angela Rye is back, which is wonderful to see you.
ANGELA RYE, PRINCIPAL AND CEO, IMPACT STRATEGIES: Thank you.
BURNETT: Co-host of the Native Land Pod. All right, so you heard Spike Lee there. He's talking about Donald Trump. He -- he doesn't like to say his name, but talking about, you know, how he feels that -- that he believes that -- that Kamala Harris is going to be the next president. You said something the other day, Charlamagne, that wasn't saying you don't think Trump can win. Wasn't saying you don't think any of that. It was you don't think Trump wants to be president anymore. I just want to play it. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THA GOD: He does not want to be the Republican nominee no more. He is hoping that Republicans do him the way the Democrats did Biden. He wants to be put out of misery. You can hear it into the voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You believe that?
THA GOD: A hundred percent. I think you know what Nikki Haley said when she said the first party to get rid of their 80-year-old candidate was going to win this election, I think that was -- that's going to come -- come to be true. And I think that, you know, he's just over it. I mean, the guy did just get shot at, what a -- a month ago. And I think there's some PTSD involved. I think everything that you're seeing right now from Donald Trump is just a -- a -- a response to trauma. He's just staying busy because he absolutely has nothing else to do.
Or maybe it's just his ego saying, hey, I need to continue to run because I want to stay out of jail.
RYE: Yes.
THA GOD: But I don't think he wants to be the -- the -- the nominee --
RYE: Yes.
THA GOD: -- in any way, shape or form.
BURNETT: Do you think that too? And do -- and you think it goes back to that moment when he was shot at?
RYE: I don't think that part. I do think that he is running to stay out of jail. I think the Trump family saw quite a -- a boost, even economically from his presidency. And I think Donald Trump would do anything to stay out of jail. He has a bunch of folks who follow him. He won at least the Electoral College in -- in 2016. And I think that's what this is about. I don't -- I think that he has a huge ego, and it gets in his own way.
THA GOD: At some point, you got to say, enough is enough, though, right? At some point it's not worth it. You got all these criminal charges. You're getting shot at. You know, I don't see no enthusiasm from him when he's on the trail. The joke's not even hitting no more. He's never -- he's never been a -- he's never been a big policy person. I don't think he wants to be out here no more.
BURNETT: So I -- I -- but, I mean, I guess when you're talking traumatic on a traumatic basis, psychological basis, but Charlamagne, what about the jail issue?
[17:35:06]
RYE: Yes.
BURNETT: I mean, if he loses, never mind pardons and whether Biden pardons him the way out. I mean, just say -- just say all that actually happens. You still have state charges that could result in a really long time in jail that --
THA GOD: I -- I don't think we'll ever see Donald Trump in a jail cell. He -- he's a white man in America who was a former president. There's a different level of privilege with that. I don't think -- I don't think jail is actually an issue. I don't think we'll ever see Donald Trump in a jail cell.
RYE: Michelle Obama talked about that. That's the real affirmative action, the kind that lets you fail forward.
THA GOD: Absolutely.
RYE: So she did talk about that.
THA GOD: We've never even seen him in handcuffs. With all those criminal charges, we've never seen him in handcuffs.
RYE: Just a mug shot.
THA GOD: One mug shot like, no.
RYE: That's it.
THA GOD: Like -- like I know people say that like, oh, he's running because he wants to stay out of prison. Donald Trump is not going to prison. So I'm sticking to what sticking to what I'm saying. I don't think Donald Trump wants to be -- I don't think he wants to be running for president right now at all.
RYE: Definitely hasn't been sentenced yet.
BURNETT: So you mentioned Michelle Obama and what she said now, she talked about he had said, you know, talk about black jobs, right, at -- at the -- at the convention a couple weeks ago. So she made a comment about that last night, which was very well received --
RYE: OK.
BURNETT: -- in the room that we're sitting in here. Now let me just play her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Who's going to tell him -- who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RYE: The best was the face after because we know -- we know what that means. And yes, I think that the reality of it is, is this has been a black job only once before, and it's about to be a black job again. And the reality of it is, if Donald Trump was anybody else, even in the Republican Party, he would not be where he was.
THA GOD: A round of applause to Michelle Obama, too.
RYE: Yes.
THA GOD: A fan -- fantastic speech. The audacity of President Obama to go after her. He should have been opening for Michelle Obama. RYE: I agree with that.
THA GOD: Yes.
BURNETT: That's interesting. All right, can I ask you about RFK Jr.? I don't know if you just heard this, but we've just confirmed that he is going to get out on Friday. And that there's a discussion as to whether he will at that time, formally endorse Trump. All right, so when you look at this, does that make a difference, given, you know, you've talked every single one of these folks.
THA GOD: No. I mean, listen, I -- I think that there's going to be a time in this country where they are third party candidates who can have real impact. But when you say RFK Jr. got out, I mean, was he ever really in? Come on. We know it's a two party system in this country. You know, it's going to be a Democrat, you know, it's going to be a Republican, somebody like RFK Jr. never really had a -- had a -- had a chance.
BURNETT: No. He didn't have a chance, but he had some numbers. And I know there were questions, Angela, does he go Democrats? Does he go Republican? Do you think, and obviously, endorsements are what they are, it doesn't mean people are going to go along with it.
RYE: Yes.
BURNETT: But does it help Trump if RFK Jr. does give that endorsement.
RYE: I think the only person that RFK Jr. is interested in helping is himself. He's shopping for cabinet positions. He says these crazy things. He's got these crazy conspiracies. He's been trying to land a plane on some type of virality for some time. It's not working.
BURNETT: Charlamagne you -- you've interviewed Kamala Harris.
THA GOD: Yes. Two times.
BURNETT: All right -- all right. And you -- you -- everybody's come on your radio show. Everybody has to come on your radio show. She hasn't done big interview in a while here, and certainly not since announcing. Are you going to talk to her soon? What do you think -- what do you think she should do? Or does she do better to ignore all those calls to talk and just keep doing what she's doing?
THA GOD: I think what she's been doing is working because, you know, what she's been doing is hitting the ground. And I think, you know, sometimes we forget about the ground game in this digital era that we're in, this era of interviews. Sometimes, you know, not sometimes, all the time, when you're actually on the ground, shaking hands, you know, kissing babies, actually touching people, that goes a long way.
And I think she'll get to -- she'll get the interviews after the DNC. But, you know, this week, I think she got -- she got bigger fist to fry, like going out there tomorrow and knocking a -- a -- a home run speech out the park. RYE: You know, the one thing on this that I think is so important is folks are spending a lot of time talking about what she's doing on the camera. There's also a behind the camera side. And I think one thing that's very consistent about Kamala Harris is you can best believe she's having conversations. She's going to have them on air, and she's certainly having them off air. And there's no gap between those two.
BURNETT: All right, well, it's great to see both of you --
RYE: Good to see you.
BURNETT: -- in person.
THA GOD: Thank you for having us.
BURNETT: And together. All right. So thanks and wonderful to see you both Charlamagne tha God and Angela Rye.
[17:39:03]
And just ahead, we're going to talk to presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin about what she makes of this historic convention that we are all now witnessing.
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[17:43:24]
BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage of the Democrats' historic national convention. We're live here in Chicago. And tonight we hear from the ticket, Vice President Kamala Harris' running mate. Tim Walz is now just a few hours away from making the biggest speech of his political career.
Joining us now, the presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. She's the al -- also the author of an important brand new book entitled "An Unfinished Love Story." It's a major New York Times bestseller already. Doris, thanks so much for joining us. As you know, Kamala Harris will accept the nomination tomorrow, just a month after becoming the Democratic presidential nominee. What lessons can she take from other nominees who rose to the moment at their conventions?
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, I think the most important lesson is that when I think back to the various memorable convention speeches for the acceptance, what they were able to do was to engage the country in feeling they were part of the whole campaign. I mean, 1932 for example, FDR comes in, the depression is at its lowest ebb. People are feeling a panic in the air. And he talks about a new deal, that he's going to change the mood of the country.
And his slogan is, happy days are here again, and somehow people felt confident and optimistic as a result of that. And then he comes back in 1936 and what does he do? Well, he challenges the entire generation to say, this generation has a rendezvous with destiny. And some generations, much is given. Other generations, much is expected. And so they felt that they had a sense of going forward in the future. And he talked about going forward.
[17:45:00]
And similarly, in 1960 when John Kennedy comes in, he talks about a new path -- new frontier, pathfinders, pioneer finders, and he talks about going forward, not backward. He was talking about an old administration with Eisenhower, where the guy was the oldest president. He was only 70. Him -- that would seem young today. But John Kennedy was the youngest president being nominated. So I think that's the hope that what they can produce. That's what Obama did in 2008 to make people feel it was part of their destiny to be part of this campaign.
It wasn't just a campaign. It was a movement, a movement, a movement. I think that's what they're going for.
BLITZER: I think you're right. Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are bringing a clear sense of joy to their campaign, Doris, and as you said, trying to revive the momentum of the Obama 2008 campaign. Have we seen historical echoes of that already?
GOODWIN: I think so, in some ways. I mean, even just the idea what John Kennedy was after was high hopes, that's what he was singing to, they're singing this time to Fleetwood Mac and they -- Obama talked about hope. And -- and Michelle Obama talked about hope. Hope is something for the future that people can do together, and it's the opposite of fear. It's the opposite of the sadness that we've been feeling in these last months and last years about democracy. Is it peril?
Now they're saying we can do something about it. We have to act. And I think that's -- that's what they're trying to penetrate the country with the feeling that it's in their hands and that they have a future. They keep talking about the future, not the past.
BLITZER: Good point. You attended the 1968 Democratic convention as a spectator, Doris. But -- but you were working for President Lyndon B. Johnson at the time. Johnson didn't seek a second term. So how does that compare to President Joe Biden today?
GOODWIN: Yes. What really strikes me when I think about 1968 and I think about Joe Biden coming to his convention where he was able to give a valedictory speech, President Johnson called me up. I was at the convention just as a spectator. I was there on vacation with my friends from the Hill, and we were in a hotel room, and he called me in the room. Somebody answered the phone and said, the President is calling. I thought it was a joke. And then he just said to me, I was -- he said I had some favor to ask you. And I thought he was going to ask me to do something official, but he simply said, when you were here at the ranch last week, you borrowed my flashlight, and I can't find it. Where is it?
I was so embarrassed thinking what I was thinking. But then I said to him, how are you? And he said, how do you think I am? I never felt lower in my life. He was supposed to go to that convention, give a speech, much like Biden did, and he was working on it that morning, a valedictory speech, because he had withdrawn earlier. He was getting the same praise that Biden had for withdrawing.
But then they told him that he couldn't come, that the divisions were too great, that he would create turmoil, and there'd be more cheers and boos than cheers. So he couldn't go. He stayed home that night. It was his birthday too. He was going to go celebrate his 60th birthday, and he stayed home. And Lady Bird simply got a series of people there to have dinner and watch the convention. So it was a very sad moment for him.
BLITZER: I love the history so much. Doris Kearns Goodwin as usual, thanks very much. And I certainly will want to continue this conversation down the road.
[17:48:10]
Coming up, the list growing of former Trump aides and allies who are speaking at this week's Democratic National Convention here in Chicago. So how is the former president of the United States responding to this? Trump's former White House press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, who also spoke last night here at the convention, she's standing by. We will talk to her next.
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[17:52:51]
BURNETT: And welcome back. Former Trump aide and apprentice star, Omarosa Manigault Newman, right now at the DNC. We'll show her. Here she is, the latest former Trump ally to attend the DNC. Michael Cohen was here, and ex-Pence advisor, Olivia Troy, she here, along with Trump's former White House press secretary, Stephanie Grisham. They have both spoken out on the main podium.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Behind closed doors, Trump mocks his supporters. He calls them basement dwellers. He used to tell me, it doesn't matter what you say, Stephanie, say it enough, and people will believe you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Stephanie Grisham joins me now. And -- and Stephanie, you know, I know you didn't do that lightly. And the public eye is not something you seek out at all in any way. So I know you did it with -- with -- with trepidation, but with belief in what you were saying. So what do you -- how do you think Trump is responding to the fact that you, Olivia Troy, you're -- that you're speaking out here.
GRISHAM: You know, I'm sure that behind the scenes, he's -- he's angry, and he's calling us all kinds of names, and he's telling, you know, people, what, liars we are. We're seeking relevance and we're low lives. I mean, it's just -- it's the normal thing. Since I spoke last night, of course, Trump world has come out and been attacking me, and it's par for the course. But, you know, the Republicans for Harris group, we kind of have coalesced together. It's power in numbers. And we kind of support each other along the way.
BURNETT: And I know it has to be hard, as you and I were talking about it, when you -- when you do, you know, you know incoming is coming, and it comes, right? We're all human beings. Do you believe, though, and I know the reason you did this is because you thought it would break through to somebody, that to somebody, it would say, wait, I heard that. That resonated with me. Have you heard some of that? And do you believe that will happen?
GRISHAM: I have. I mean, I know I'm talking about, you know, the incoming hate, but I have had so much support already, and I've heard from some Republican women who have said, thank you so much for speaking out. You know, I don't really like this man. It's been hard for me as a Republican. I'm not sure what to do. Hearing your actual, true experiences with him has been helpful.
And so that's been my -- my shtick, right, is that I was with him for six years. I know who he is as a person. And I really do think that will break through. I think that when people go into the privacy of the voting booth, I think that a lot of Republicans, especially women, will vote for Kamala Harris.
[17:55:12]
BURNETT: Even if -- even if they don't speak out --
GRISHAM: Yes. Absolutely.
BURNETT: -- in a way, obviously --
GRISHAM: Absolutely.
BURNETT: -- like -- like you -- like you have done. So now you've been to two Republican National Conventions. I said you've been around Trump a lot. You worked for him. And now you're here at this Democratic National Convention.
GRISHAM: Yes.
BURNETT: Obviously, I will say this up front. There are more delegates in a Democratic Convention. There are just technically more people in the room.
GRISHAM: Yes.
BURNETT: But putting that just reality aside, how does it feel being here, as opposed to being at the Republican National Conventions you've attended?
GRISHAM: Well, it certainly feels strange being a Republican in this room. But, you know, the energy feels incredible. And I know everybody has been really talking about that on the news. But as I've been kind of saying, Trump is all doom and gloom. Only I can save the world. Everything has gone to hell because of me, and it's just, you know, hitting you over the head with how bad America is. And this message has been one of, come join us in -- in featuring Republicans every night, I think is part of that.
It's been one of, let's move forward. Let's move on from this chaos. And I think that that message really is going to res -- resonate the differences that split screen will resonate with people.
BURNETT: Well, Stephanie, it's good to see you.
GRISHAM: Thank you for having me.
BURNETT: And to be with you in person here in Chicago. And thanks so much to Stephanie Grisham.
And stay with us, Wolf and I will be back in just a few moments with a special edition of The Situation Room as our coverage of the DNC continues.
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