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Any Moment, Boeing Starliner To Leave Space Station Without Crew; Former GOP Vice President Dick Cheney To Vote For Harris; Judge Delays Trump's Hush Money Sentencing Until After Election; Georgia Shooting Suspect And His Father Appear In Court For First Time; U.S. Activist Killed After Israeli Forces Fire At Protest In West Bank. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 06, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, Boeing's troubled Starliner is about to undock from the International Space Station and head for Earth, leaving the two-person crew behind because of safety concerns. You're going to see this critical test of the spacecraft. All that's coming up live.
Also tonight, new wins for Donald Trump and Kamala Harris four days before their historic debate. Trump getting his sentencing in the hush money criminal case delayed until after the presidential election and Harris poised to get the vote of former vice president and stalwart conservative Republican, Dick Cheney.
Plus, the 14-year-old suspect in the Georgia school shooting is arraigned on four counts of murder. His father also in court as he faces rare and serious charges for allegedly giving his son a weapon knowing he was a threat.
Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.
And let's get right to the breaking news on a very tense, high-stakes space mission. These are pictures from the International Space Station as we count down to the Starliner's undocking just moments from now.
CNN Space and Defense Correspondent Kristin Fisher is over at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. Kristen, first, walk us through what's about to happen.
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, in just about three minutes, Wolf, we should see Boeing Starliner spacecraft undock or detach from the International Space Station, and it will be doing that, of course, without its crew. Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams will be staying on board the International Space Station.
And so what you're seeing on the right hand side of your screen, that is Starliner. You'll see it slowly start to back away from the space station. But to give you a sense of the actual size, how big it is, I'm actually standing in front of the port, the Harmony Modules port of the International Space Station, where Starliner is going to be undocking from. And so you can see that's how big it is. That's what Starliner is attached to now. It's going to undock.
And, you know, the issue with it, Wolf, has been these thrusters, these thrusters misfiring. And those thrusters are the same thrusters that are needed to orient the spacecraft and make those small adjustments when it's in orbit. And so there's been some concern that, you know, if those thrusters misfire again that it could cause some danger to the space station itself and all of the astronauts and cosmonauts on board.
So, what's going to happen, the backup plan that they have in place, are springs. There are actual springs on both the Harmony's docking port and Starliner itself. And, you know, in space it doesn't take a lot to get things to move in one direction because everything's weightless, there's no friction. And so, if by some chance those thrusters were to misfire, NASA's confident that those springs would be able to get Starliner a safe distance away from space station, Wolf.
BLITZER: What are the biggest concerns, Kristin, for NASA right now, in these seconds before the undocking?
FISHER: Well, it really comes down to just making sure that Starliner is able to get a safe distance away from the space station and from --
BLITZER: Kristin, hold on for a moment. We're told now astronauts, the actual un undoing is beginning right now. I want to watch and listen to mission control. Let's do that.
Kristin, finish your thought as we await for the undoing to actually begin.
FISHER: Sure. So, I mean, for this part of the mission, the return to Earth home, what's really critical, as I was saying before, is just getting Starliner a safe distance away from the space station and the astronauts and the cosmonauts on board. So, NASA has done tons of testing and modeling and analysis to make sure that even if those thrusters that have been malfunctioning were to somehow malfunction again.
[18:05:04]
And there we have it, separation confirmed.
BLITZER: All right. We can see, Kristin, separation is now confirmed. This whole process of the undocking of the Starliner has begun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The vehicle is now about two meters away from the International Space Station at the time of undocking Starliner in the International Space Station. We're flying approximately 260 statute miles over Central China.
FISHER: -- of a six-hour long return to Earth mission for Starliner. And you can see that open hatch right there, that opening right there, Wolf, that is what was attached to the docking port at the International Space Station all these weeks that Starliner has been up there. And so, that hatch is going to close. And then for the next several hours, what you're going to see is Starliner making its way back to Earth. And the next really critical test here is -- oh, and I believe you can see one of those thrusters firing right there.
BLITZER: These are live pictures that NASA Mission Control in Houston, where you are, Kristen, are showing our viewers right now. It should begin momentarily. It's actually beginning.
Stand by for a moment, Kristin. I want to bring in Miles O'Brien. He's our aviation analyst as well. He's covered a lot of these space missions. Miles, this has been a troubled mission for Boeing and for NASA. How critical are these next few moments and indeed the next few hours for this entire program?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: We saw a good. Well, I don't think it's an overstatement Wolf to say Starliner's future is on the line over the next six hours. So far, so good, it's nice to see those thrusters burning, seemingly in a, as NASA would say, nominal way. You see them there. That's good news.
This is a breakaway event, though. They want to get Starliner as far away from the space station as quickly possible. Because if something goes awry, God forbid, we have a collision out there. The spacecraft will move ahead of the space station, then over it and then under it, it will orbit four times and then make its way down to White Sands, in New Mexico.
And whether what the next Starliner flight looks like, it's unscrewed, whether they decide to fly it in a different way or do a complete redesign, all those are open questions and the program very much isn't --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 60 meters away
BLITZER: All right. Miles, standby for a moment. I want to bring back Kristin. Kristin, tell our viewers why NASA decided that the two-crew members, Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore, it was too dangerous for them to be aboard the Starliner as it's about to make its way back to Earth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- as part of the breakout burn as a reminder of the entire sequence --
FISHER: Yes. Well, Wolf, in the end, NASA just made the determination that it was simply too risky to send Butch and Suni back home on Starliner largely because they had a backup plan. They have the SpaceX Crew Dragon, which is equally capable of bringing these astronauts home, you know, even though it's several months later.
And so the question facing NASA is, well, how much risk is acceptable? And when NASA Administrator Bill Nelson formally announced that Butch and Sonny will, would be staying on station and that Starliner would be coming home without them, he said, look, NASA has made mistakes in the past. Look at what happened with the Space Shuttle Challenger. Look at what happened with Space Shuttle Columbia. I mean, Administrator Nelson was a member of Congress and a senator for Columbia, a member of Congress for Challenger. He actually investigated the Challenger disaster. And so he told me that those incidents, those tragedies played a big part in his decision and NASA's decision about what to do with Butch and Suni on this mission.
You know, one other thing, Wolf, we also know that there were some disagreements between NASA and Boeing about what should happen here. During a call with reporters just a few days ago, NASA leadership said that, you know, they wouldn't quite describe those discussions as heated, but they said that there were some really tense technical discussions, because Boeing believes that this spacecraft is safe. They believe it is safe enough to take Butch and Suni home. But at the end of the day, NASA says it was just a risk that they weren't willing to take, especially when you have a tried and true vehicle, like the SpaceX Crew Dragon, coming up and capable of taking them home as well, Wolf.
BLITZER: And, Miles, we're told by Mission Control that right now this situation is about halfway through the controlled burns that are necessary, 6 of 12 burns.
[18:10:06]
Explain to our viewers what that means.
O'BRIEN: Well, basically, what you're doing is adjusting the speed of the spacecraft relative to the International Space Station. Objects which orbit above the station actually move, relatively speaking, slower than the station and those below move quicker. And so they want to carefully get it out ahead, above and then underneath to begin the process of separation and homing in on New Mexico.
And, Wolf, I should point out this idea that Boeing and NASA were in conflict over this is very interesting. If you hearken back to the night before -- 1986, the contractor, Morton Thiokol, was on a teleconference urging NASA not to launch, that it felt it was too cold, and the O rings, which were to protect the fuel from escaping, the flames from escaping, would not be safe enough. And NASA ignored it, and we lost the Challenger crew. Similar cultural problems with Columbia, people were concerned about it, and it didn't rise to the top.
In this case, you have the inverse of that. You have the contractor saying it's safe and NASA's saying, no, we're going to err on the side of safety here. And I think Bill Nelson is at the center of this. He flew on the shuttle mission immediately prior to Challenger and there were singes in the O rings on that mission. It's a calamity but he knows very personally came in that case.
So, I think all of this says a lot about how NASA's culture has changed, and that's a good thing.
BLITZER: And, Kristin, we're now told one more burn mission to go and then this Starliner capsule will begin its trip back to earth and should be landing, we're told, around midnight Eastern Time later tonight. Is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we have confirmation that all 12 burns in this series of --
FISHER: That's right. And actually we've just learned that Starliner has crossed the Keep Out Sphere. That's the area around the space station that's really like the no fly zone. You don't want to get any spacecraft too close to the space station. So, this is really, like we're now at the point where Starliner is a safe enough distance away from the space station and the crew that's on board and all 12 breakout burns are complete.
So, so far, we're looking really good here for Starliner. And, you know, as it heads back to Earth now and we prepare for this landing in White Sands, New Mexico, I know some folks may be thinking, you know, well, gosh, if it has had these malfunctioning thrusters in space, could this pose a danger to people here on Earth? But the reality is, when the path that it takes to return to Earth, it's going to be flying over the Pacific Ocean, then over a very unpopulated part of Northern Mexico, and then just crossing a little bit into New Mexico before landing beneath parachutes in White Sands. So, that's the trajectory that it's going to take.
And, you know, one more thing, Wolf, as we're talking about what this program is, Boeing Starliner is part of NASA's Commercial Crew Program. This is a program that was started by NASA. Ten years ago, and the whole idea of it was NASA wanted to outsource the ferrying of its astronauts to and from the International Space Station to commercial companies so that NASA could focus on, you know, bigger goals of getting astronauts back to the moon and someday in Mars.
So, in 2014, NASA selected Boeing and SpaceX. That's how long this dream of having two spacecrafts flying astronauts to and from the International Space Station has really been alive. And the reason that's so important is because, you know, NASA is all about having a backup plan, a contingency plan. They want that redundancy.
And so you heard NASA Administrator Bill Nelson talking at the post launch press conference about how great it was that NASA was, you know, well on track to now finally, after these years of delays and Boeing being more than a billion dollars over budget on this spacecraft, that it now appeared that NASA was well on its way to having two spacecrafts capable of taking its astronauts to and from the International Space Station.
Of course, no one could have known at that post-launch press conference just how soon that backup system would be tested. But now that's exactly what's happening. And it's why NASA was able to take the safe call, the safer call and not take really much risk at all with NASA Astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams and allow them to fly back on SpaceX's Crew Dragon.
[18:15:01]
Wolf? BLITZER: And it looks like it's beginning, this process is beginning to take shape, and this Starliner capsule will make its way back to Earth.
And just to remind our viewers, Kristin, the crew members, Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore, they were supposed to be up there for just a few days, and now it's going to be at least another five or six months that they're going to have to remain on this orbiting laboratory up there. This is a real issue.
FISHER: Yes. So, anytime you're a NASA astronaut, but especially anytime you're a NASA astronaut that's assigned to the first crew test flight of a brand new spacecraft, something that has only happened a little more than a handful of times in NASA's history, you know that you have to plan for every possible contingency.
So, yes, on paper, this was technically only supposed to be an eight- day mission, but for these two veteran NASA astronauts, you have to know in the back of your mind that you could be up there for much, much longer than that.
And both Butch and Suni have already done long duration missions up at the International Space Station. So, they're well aware of, you know, what it takes to be up there for an extended period of time. They're -- also an interesting note about them, they have flown on -- listen to how many spacecrafts they have flown on to get into space. They've both flown on the Russian Soyuz spacecraft. They've both flown on a space shuttle. They've both flown on a Crew Dragon and now they've both flown on a Boeing Starliner. So, these two astronauts are about as experienced as they come. So, you know, they truly are ready for another long duration mission.
What I would say is it's probably more of an issue for their families on the ground, right? I mean even if the astronauts are ready for another long duration flight, it's another thing to tell their wives or husbands or their children's or their dogs, in Suni's case That you know, they're going to be up there for much longer than they had originally planned. Wolf?
BLITZER: Yes, it's a real, real issue. They were supposed to be up there for just a few days and now it's going to be months and months and months, and maybe another five or six months until they're potentially capable of getting aboard some sort of capsule and coming back to Earth. We'll see all this very, very closely and carefully.
But, Miles, everything they need, these two astronauts, aboard this orbiting laboratory, they have up there food, water, all the other basic requirements, right?
O'BRIEN: Yes, Wolf. The space station is usually pretty knee deep in supplies. The rule of thumb is a crew of four for four months, they should have enough supplies to do that. It's worth pointing out, though, that when Suni and Butch lifted off, there was a piece of the space station that broke right around the same time, part of the urine water recycling system. And so they asked the crew, they said, hey, you're only going up for a week, would you mind not bringing a packing a bag? And so they went up there without any clothes to make room for this pier.
Now, since that time a cargo supply mission has arrived at the space station and there are plenty of stores on board. So, they're not going to go hungry. They got clothing, everything is all set.
BLITZER: And thank God for that. Miles, will NASA and Boeing be able to determine whether the spacecraft would have safely been able to transport these two astronauts back to Earth once it lands later tonight in New Mexico?
O'BRIEN: Yes. I mean, I think the proof is in the landing, Wolf. If it touches down, as everyone hopes it will, we could say that they could have made it, but who knows. Right now, those thrusters, as you see, are firing and they seem to be firing, as they should. But what had happened and what Boeing and NASA now believes is that a series of quick thrusts in rapid succession overheated these thrusters causing some changes to some things they call poppets, which are kind of like gaskets, and that caused the thrusters to misfire.
So, if in the course of returning to the atmosphere those thrusters flying in rapid succession do that again, you might have some thrusters --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- from the International Space Station at 5:04 P.M. Central --
O'BRIEN: -- in a spacecraft, when that happens. This is very precise flying. If you come in too steep, it's not good.
BLITZER: And, Kristin, I want you to walk us through what the landing later tonight, about six hours or so around midnight Eastern Time in New Mexico will actually look like.
FISHER: So, right now, what you're seeing is the Boeing's Starliner capsule, which is attached to its service module. Two separate things. All the issues with the thrusters and the helium leaks, those have been taking place on the service module, which is kind of on the back end, the left hand side of what you're seeing on your screen, the Starliner capsule, not the side where you can see that little hole that undocked from the International Space Station.
[18:20:05]
So, that service module where all the issues with the thrusters and helium leaks have been, that is going to detach at some point from the Starliner capsule, which is where Butch and Suni would have been had they ridden this vehicle back to Earth.
And so when it separates the service module, it was never intended to survive re entry into the Earth's atmosphere. So, it's going to separate from the capsule and burn apart essentially as it reenters the Earth's atmosphere, that will leave the uncrewed capsule.
And what's going to happen there is the thrusters, right, the thrusters that we've talked so much about, it needs to get the Starliner capsule oriented in the right direction, heat shield forward, so that the heat shield is going to take the brunt of the heat as it reenters the Earth's atmosphere. That is the really critical maneuver that NASA was ultimately so worried about. That's ultimately why they decided not to put Butch and Suni inside that spacecraft was for that maneuver right there. And so that should happen and then landing shortly after, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Our space experts, Kristin Fisher and Miles O'Brien, to both of you, you are both the best in this area of expertise, and we're grateful to both of you.
This Boeing Starliner capsule now heading back to Earth. It's going to be several hours before it actually lands in New Mexico. We'll stay on top of the story and continue to update our viewers throughout the evening.
We'll be right back with more important news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
BLITZER: We're following other breaking news right now. Another very prominent Republican is now set to vote for Kamala Harris for president of the United States, and that would be the former vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney just issued a statement confirming his plans, first revealed by his daughter, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who also is set to vote for Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dick Cheney, your father a beloved figure among Democrats for many, many years, do you -- if you know who he will be supporting or who he'll be voting for, do you care to share with us who he might be voting for?
FMR. REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Dick Cheney will be voting for Kamala Harris.
My dad believes and he's said publicly that there's never been an individual in our country who is as grave a threat to our democracy as Donald Trump is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Our political experts are here with their reaction. And, John King, you and I have covered Dick Cheney for a long time. We know him well. How significant is this?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a huge deal. That does not mean it will have a huge impact in the sense that Donald Trump has changed the Republican Party. And he has spent his time as the leader of the Republican Party running against people like Dick Cheney, like the Bush family, like Liz Cheney, especially because of her role in the January 6th committee.
So, is it going to have a huge impact? Is the, you know, is the 33, 34 percent of Republicans who are firmly committed Trump, basically, are they going to say, oh, let me think about this again? No. However, we're in an election that is going to be decided, again, by 40,000 people in Wisconsin and 150,000 people in Michigan and 180,000 or so people in Pennsylvania, maybe it's 11,000 votes in Georgia, 10,000 votes in Arizona.
And so anyone listening to Liz Cheney or Dick Cheney, there are a lot of, in my travels, there are a lot of Reagan Republicans who are most uncomfortable with Donald Trump as the leader of their party, they might like their taxes cut, they might think he'll close the border, but they don't like his character, that they think he's toxic, they think his tone is mean, they think he doesn't treat people fairly.
So, you don't have to have a huge impact. If Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney can move a couple hundred votes there, and then somebody else goes -- this election will be decided on the margins. So, it's not going to cause this groundswell. But it could have an impact in the suburbs and with Reagan Republicans who just, you know, get queasy when they see Donald Trump.
BLITZER: And Dick Cheney has just released a formal statement, a public statement, explaining why he's decided to do this, John. Let me read a little bit of that statement.
In our nation -- this is Dick Cheney. In our nation's 248 year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump. He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him. He can never be trusted with power again.
As citizens, we each have a duty to put country above partisanship to defend our Constitution. That is why I will be casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris.
That's a blistering statement.
KING: Long time member of Congress.
BLITZER: Conservative.
KING: A Jerry Ford Republican. Then the defense secretary, you know, and then the vice president of the United States. Again, he's essentially saying Republicans, look yourself in the mirror. This guy's a threat to democracy. You have to put your country above your party.
And, again, Donald Trump, like he does, he poisons the well. He makes people persona non grata, so people won't listen to them. That's why he constantly attacks his critics, so that his voters won't listen to them. So, we'll have to see as you go through it.
But, again, my point is it doesn't take much. It doesn't take much in the margin of this election. And this is an opportunity. There's a big debate next week. This is an opportunity for the vice president to talk to Republican voters too, to your Nikki Haley primary voters, to Reagan Bush voters, to people who don't like Donald Trump, to say, you may not like me, you might not know me very well, I'm a Democrat, you may not have voted for me before, and you might not want to vote for a Democrat, but please listen to these respected figures in your former party who think Donald Trump is a threat.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. And she's already told Dana Bash that she would put a Republican in her cabinet, so she's trying to talk to these people who may be undecided and on the fence. And while Dick Cheney isn't going to cause any kind of a groundswell, Liz Cheney isn't going to cause any kind of a groundswell, she's joining other Republicans.
[18:30:00]
It is these people on the margins. And I think that Kamala Harris ought to talk about it a little bit, because Dick Cheney was Darth Vader to the Democratic Party. That was his name, right?
KING: And he even said his role was, after 9/11 -- I had an interview with him not long after 9/11, where he said, my role now is Darth Vader. He said, somebody has to always take the darkest view or we're going to be attacked again. He said, you know, you might be wrong when you take that view, but somebody has to always represent that view in the room to protect the country.
So, whatever you think of him politically, he is a patriot. He served his country in public service for a long time. So, again, does that get the attention of enough people? We'll see. But it does force a little bit of thought, and, again, I think it gives the vice president a very powerful personal testament. Listen to Dick Cheney. Listen to Liz Cheney, even if you have a hard time listening to a Democrat like me.
BORGER: It's not George W. Bush doing it, but it is Cheney.
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: can I just add too, it's not just Dick Cheney and Liz Cheney. It's also 40-plus people that served in the Trump administration. Some of those the closest to the former president, even as national security advisers, others that are saying he should be nowhere near the Resolute Desk and the Oval Office.
I mean, I think what this also puts a spotlight on, Liz Cheney's done effectively, which is, you know, highlight the silence of Republicans. How can you call yourself a patriot and defend four indictments about the most egregious offenses against American democracy? How can you do that?
She also put a spotlight on the fact that Republicans know that Trump is reprehensible, but they're not doing anything about it. They're not going to go out in public and reprehend him. And what they continue to do is mislead the public. That was --
BORGER: Because it's not in their self-interest right now.
BLITZER: Guys, hold on a second. Scott Jennings is with us as well. Scott, does Dick Cheney's decision to vote for Kamala Harris give a permission slip to other Republicans out there who may be on the fence right now about Trump? Does it give them a permission slip to go ahead and vote for Kamala Harris?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think if you're a National Security Republican, if that's something that, you know, on which you solely base your vote, obviously Cheney's worldview on that front is dramatically different than Trump and a lot of the people who support Trump. So, you know, if there are voters out there who look at those issues solely, which are very few, maybe.
You know, I revere Dick Cheney. I worked for Dick Cheney. I served in the Bush White House when he was vice president of the United States and deeply respect him. I think what most Republicans would say is, A, this statement's a little hyperbolic, B, that there is as much to fear of a policy future under Kamala Harris and possibly Democratic control of the Senate as there is to fear from what you're mad about that Donald Trump has done in the past.
And so my suspicion is most Republicans are going to say, I'm just not prepared to turn the country over to people who previously, sir, for the last 20 years, called you a war criminal. I don't want to turn the country over to them because I fear what, you know, them jerking the country to the left.
So, I think a lot of people in Washington will take note of this. Will working class people in Pennsylvania take note of it?
BLITZER: Yes. But let's not forget, Dick Cheney said, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump. Those were his words, Dick Cheney.
Everybody stand by, we have a lot more to discuss with our panel, including up next, what the delay in Donald Trump's criminal sentencing means for him and for his presidential campaign,
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
BLITZER: Tonight, a legal and political victory for Donald Trump, the judge overseeing Trump's criminal hush money case in New York agreeing to delay the former president's sentencing until after the November election.
CNN's Paula Reid is following the breaking story for us. Paula, what does this mean for the former president?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's great news for the former president for now. I mean, here, the judge said, look, this is a situation that is, quote, fraught with complexities. We're talking about a former president who's now a presidential candidate and the election's just a few weeks away. He wants to avoid any appearance that this sentencing is being impacted by the election or that this sentencing could impact the outcome of voting in November. And this is interesting because Merchan has rarely conceded the Trump legal team's arguments in and around politics, but here, we also have a new additional element, and that is the Supreme Court's decision on presidential immunity that could impact this case. The judge pointed out that he routinely pushes back sentencing for all kinds of reasons. And looking at all the factors here, he's decided to push this back until late November.
Now, if Trump is reelected, I would expect that his lawyers will try to get this sentencing pushed back even further, arguing that you can't sentence a president-elect. You can see in this calendar right now, this would happen several weeks after the election, but also after the decision by this judge about whether this case survives after the Supreme Court granted Trump some immunity, it is widely expected that this case will survive. And if Trump is not reelected, he will have to face this sentencing in addition to three other criminal proceedings currently pending. Wolf?
BLITZER: Our Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid, thank you for that update.
Our political experts are still here with me in this situation. We're going to break all of this down. The sentencing now delayed until after the election. How significant, John, is that?
KING: Look, as Paula noted, the president doesn't have to be in a courtroom. The president doesn't have to face the risk of either potentially jail time or suspended sentence and the embarrassment that would bring. I say the embarrassment that would bring, that's your logical conclusion, but, look, every time he's had a difficult legal setback, it has somehow helped him politically, at least with his base and energy.
One of the issues in the campaign right now, by the way, is that Kamala Harris has increased Democratic enthusiasm. And Democrats before who were voting against Trump when it was Biden now are voting against Trump and for her.
[18:40:03]
And so in an odd way, it could help Trump to be back in court if it juiced up Republican enthusiasm, which has flattened off a little bit.
I say this, and I have no idea if I'm right because Trump has defied gravity on so many, political and traditional political gravity on so many of these things, but here it is. Again, that doesn't mean at the debate you're not going to see the vice president say to the American people, don't you want to be proud of your president? You know, there's this case, there's that case, there's this other case. But now we wait until after the election. And as Paula said, whether he wins or loses is now of even of more consequence than all these legal cases.
BORGER: That's why he went back to court today. He went back to court today to grab the stage again. Because when he had his trial, he had the stage every day, and he'd do those little mini press conferences, and he kind of misses that, because she's grabbed the limelight. And it's easy for him to whine and complain and do his same old same old, which is what he did today, and it works for him.
ETIENNE: But, Gloria, when he had the stage, what did he talk about? He spent 50 minutes talking about sexual assault allegations.
BORGER: Not a great idea.
ETIENNE: Not about the American people, not about policy, not about a vision for the nation. So, the Republican Party is actually panicking right now. So, while their nominee is trying to stay out of jail, Kamala Harris is gaining in the polls. She's outfundraising him by over a hundred million dollars. And so it really sets up this question, because, remember, the people that are going to matter most are those people right in between the independents, the disaffected Republicans, it really poses the question back to them, is this the guy who you want to represent you here and across the world?
BLITZER: You know, Scott Jennings, Trump says he greatly appreciated the judge's decision, but on the political side, listen to what Republican Strategist Jeff Roe said last week about the potential impact of Trump's being sentenced before the election. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the sentencing? Is that going to be a big event?
JEFF ROE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: No. Baked in the cake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think so?
ROE: Only if they go too far. If they send him to prison, they're the biggest fools that have ever walked.
They will piss off everybody so much for so long that our intensity will go through the little skyrocket again.
And that will be a momentum juicer like we haven't seen since the Bragg indictment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You know, Scott, it's also interesting that Karl Rove also said today it could have helped Trump. What do you make of that?
JENNINGS: Yes, I think I agree. This is probably a good thing for Kamala Harris because I think this judge really hates Donald Trump and who knows what he would do to him. So, the fact that we're going to see whatever punishments meted out after the election probably helps Harris.
What helped Trump today, I know we were talking about Dick Cheney in the previous segment, you know, he got the endorsement today of the National Fraternal Order of Police, hundreds of thousands of police officers represented by the National FOP today. So, I guess if you're Trump, even though it might have been an enthusiasm juicer for you as -- there. At the same time, you don't have to go back to court. You don't have to face the attacks all over again. And you now have this police endorsement to tout on top of it, which is something of a shield when Kamala Harris and the Democrats, you know, accuse you of being a felon and a criminal and so on.
BLITZER: Ashley, you think the Harris campaign is pleased that they won't have to deal with the potential political fallout if there had been a decision on sentencing before the election?
ETIENNE: Absolutely. Let's not give Donald Trump any excuse for why he's going to lose this race. You know, we anticipate that he will lose the race. All signs are pointing in that direction. But, again, I think this gets back to their core point about the threat that Donald Trump poses, that he's unfit to be and to serve as the commander-in- chief of our nation.
So, this does work to their advantage for a lot of reasons. One, it delays, doesn't give him an excuse, but it also reinforces negatives.
BORGER: But, you know, Trump continues to self harm in so many ways during this campaign. I mean, do you think his advisers wanted him to go out there after the court and talk about all the cases that were against him, raising the issue of the incident on an airplane, the alleged incident on an airplane with a woman --
ETIENNE: In detail, by the way.
BORGER: -- instead of talking about what Scott Jennings was just talking about, which was the endorsement, you know, today by the police? They don't want this and he insists on doing it.
ETIENNE: But it contributes to this narrative, these reportings, that Republicans really secretly want Donald Trump to lose, so that they can take back their party and position themselves to win the next presidential election.
KING: But he's the one speaking there. I don't know what he thinks about all this. I don't know why he would bring that up. Suburban women are going to be critical in this election and it hurts him there.
But I want to say something else, to Scott's point. He's right. The president got an endorsement from the largest police union in the country today. That should help him. However, he stood before the men and women in this country who keep us safe every day and he lied again. He lied again. He said he asked them to look out for voter fraud and he said, I hope you can watch for it. You're all over the place. Watch for it. Because without voter fraud, we win so easily.
He lost. He lost in 2020. He lost convincingly, bigly, to borrow a term he might like to use. And there was no widespread voter fraud. None. He had every court in the country to try to prove it in. And even judges he appointed left his case out of court. [18:45:02]
So, to stand in front of the nation's police officers and lie about voter fraud is not a badge of distinction.
BLITZER: Scott, a lot of these law enforcement types, these Republicans say they're the party of law and order. Do you think it's possible that the party of law and order is going to support a convicted felon to become the president of the United States?
JENNINGS: Well, most Republicans think that the case on which he was convicted should never have been brought, that it was bogus charges, and that was conducted in a kangaroo court. So when Democrats called them a convicted felon, Republicans say, you know, this was invalid and, you know, not -- not right from the beginning. And it was nothing more than a political attack launched in a blue state by a political court.
That's how Republicans are going to see it. And then they can pivot to this FOP endorsement and say, look if the fraternal order of police had any concerns about Donald Trump and how he follows the law, they wouldn't have endorsed him.
BLITZER: All right, guys, everybody, standby. We have a lot more to assess.
Just ahead also, other important news we're following right now, the schools shooting suspect in Georgia appears in court along with his father as local authorities pushed the boundaries of who's held responsible for these kinds of mass shootings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:21]
BLITZER: In Georgia tonight, a 14-year-old and his father are both facing the possibility of spending the rest of their lives in prison in connection with a deadly school shooting in this country this year.
CNN's Ryan Young is on the scene for us in Winder, Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUDGE CURRIE MINGLEDORFF, JACKSON COUNTY: Good morning, sir. Are you Mr. Colt Gray?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a green t-shirt, handcuffed with unkept hair, the teenager suspected in the Georgia school shooting on Wednesday, made his first court appearance today.
MINGLEDORFF: The penalty for the crimes for which you are charged does not include death. It includes life without the possibility of parole or life with the possibility of parole. YOUNG: The 14-year-old is charged with four counts of felony murder
and will be tried as an adult, but he's not eligible for the death penalty in Georgia because he is under 18.
Colt Gray did not enter a plea in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this time, Your Honor, there is not a request for ban.
YOUNG: The teen is accused of opening fire with an AR-15 style rifle at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought I was going to die.
YOUNG: -- killing math teachers Christina Irimie and Richard Aspinwall, along with 14-year-old students, Mason Schermerhorn and Christian Angulo.
Back in court today, devastated families of the victims embraced and cried. The suspect's father Colin Gray, also made his first court appearance, arrest warrant says the 54-year-old allegedly gave his son a gun, quote, with knowledge he was a threat to himself and others.
Colin Gray was arraigned on multiple counts of involuntary manslaughter, second-degree murder, and child cruelty.
An arrest warrant says the 54-year-old allegedly gave his son a gun, quote, would knowledge that he was a threat to himself and others.
BRAD SMITH, DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF THE PIEDMONT JUDICIAL CIRCUIT: You don't have to have been physically injured in this to be a victim. Everyone in this community is the victim. Every child in that school was a victim.
YOUNG: The FBI says in May of 2023, law enforcement interviewed the father and son after receiving several anonymous tips about online threats to commit a school shooting, that interview was recorded by the Jackson County sheriff's office.
INVESTIGATOR: Do you have weapons in the house?
COLIN GRAY: I do.
INVESTIGATOR: Are they accessible to him?
COLIN GRAY: They are, I mean, there's loaded but they are down.
We actually, we do a lot of shooting. We do a lot of deer hunting.
YOUNG: Colt's father even told police he been trying to teach his son about gun safety.
COLIN GRAY: Yeah. I want you to talk to him and just tell him why. Like I don't know. I don't know anything about him saying (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like that, and I'm going to be mad as hell if he did and then all the guns will go away. And they won't be accessible to him. You know, we -- I'm trying to be honest with you. I'm trying to teach about firearms and safety and how to do it all and get him interested in the outdoors.
YOUNG: In December of 2023, two law enforcement sources say Colin Gray purchased the gun, allegedly used this shooting as a holiday gift for his son. Colin Gray did not enter a plea. He faces a maximum penalty of 180 years in prison.
The charges against him are the most serious filed against the parent of an alleged school shooter. And this is only the second time a parent has been charged in connection with a minor carrying out a mass shooting.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Maybe purchasing a weapon in December of 2023 under conditions where potentially your son should not have one is troubling, but I do think we are in a world where prosecutors are looking to use all the tools available to them.
YOUNG: The mother and father, Ethan Crumbley, the Oxford, Michigan school shooter, who killed four students in 2021, where both convicted of involuntary manslaughter earlier this year. Of the charges filed against Colin Gray in Georgia, the Barrow County district attorney says --
SMITH: I'm not trying to send a message. I'm just trying to use the tools in our arsenal to prosecute people for the crime they commit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YOUNG (on camera): Wolf, we just completed interview with a young man who left the school and had to go to the hospital because he stared the shooter down. At one point, the shooter was standing in front of them with a blank face. He says he didn't laugh. He didn't smile. He just opened fire.
He actually believed it was not real until we heard that first shot. He was hit by shrapnel, had to be taken to the hospital. He's now been released, but his story is heartbreaking.
We'll have more for you later on on that -- Wolf.
BLITZER: The story is so heartbreaking.
Ryan Young, thank you very much for that report.
We want to send our deepest condolences to the families of the four Georgia shooting victims, 14-year-old students, Christian Angulo and Mason Schermerhorn who went to school and never came home and the two math teachers, 53-year-old, Christina Irimie and 39-year-old Richard Aspinwall who was also an assistant football coach at the school. May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:59:01]
BLITZER: An American has been killed in the occupied West Bank.
CNN's Nic Robertson has the details that we want to warn our viewers some of the video you're about to see is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The IDF has said that they fired live rounds. They haven't yet said if they'd spotted a gunman in the crowd there. What we know is that this is a regular weekly protests that it appeared that this anti-settlement protest was getting towards the end.
The IDF, the troops up the hill, the protesters were at the bottom. The IDF started firing tear gas, this is what we understand from some of the protesters. The IDF started firing tear gas, some of the protesters were hiding behind huge metal trash bins with that.
And then they say the IDF started firing live rounds, which is when they started running away, which is when this young 26-year-old activist was shot, hit in the head quickly helped by medics who are close by, putting an ambulance very quickly taken to a hospital in the nearby city of Nablus, but very soon after pronounced dead.
Now, U.S. ambassador here, Jack Lew, is asking urgently to get more details about what happened. We've heard from the spokesman at the foreign ministry in Turkey because she was also a Turkish national, as well as an American national, saying that they will hold accountable, hold to justice accountable those found responsible. But the IDF at the moment really only just beginning to look into this situation, a very tragic ending to this day of protests in the West Bank -- Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Nic Robertson reporting, thank you very much.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
