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The Situation Room

Harris At Debate Venue, Trump Landing In Pennsylvania At Any Moment; Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN) Says, Harris In Debate To Lay Out A New Way Forward; Sources Says, Harris Expected To Needle Trump's Shifting On Abortion; Trump Arrives In Philadelphia For Debate, On Way To Venue. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 10, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our special coverage of debate night in America. And in just three hours, history will be made. Vice president Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump squaring off in their first and most likely their only debate, a debate you can watch right here on CNN. Their performances tonight could very well alter the course of this presidential election.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. This is a special edition of The Situation Room. I'm Wolf Blitzer.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erin Burnett. And, Wolf, you know, it's a historic night, the first time that voters will actually see Harris and Trump interacting. They never have before, even in private. They will take questions, and we will see how they respond to each other in real time.

We do have some pictures of the debate stage, which Vice President Harris was just checking out a short time ago. As for Trump, he is expected to land in Philadelphia within the next hour. His campaign telling CNN that the former president is in good spirits. His strategy tonight is to take on Harris record as a prosecutor.

Meantime, Harris, there's been an ad put out by the campaign getting under the president's skin, obviously seems to be the goal, releasing a number of ads that are directed at Trump specifically and directly. And a new billboard up in Philadelphia, and it reads crowd size matters with a full Philly pretzel above Harris' name, Wolf.

BLITZER: Erin, we have a lot to cover tonight. It's a huge night in America. Jeff Zeleny and Kristen Holmes are both here with us in Philadelphia. And let me start with you, Jeff. Let's get right to this debate. You're there in the spin room here in Philadelphia. We all know what they're going to be spinning after this debate. What are the campaigns telling you now about tonight?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the gamesmanship is clearly underway, as Erin, was just pointing out there, back and forth all day long, the campaigns have been taunting one another, trolling one another. But when the two candidates meet for the first time on the debate stage, they will be not having any props of the kind. They will not be speaking with any pre-written notes. It is just the two candidates. And both sides are sort of telegraphing their chief objectives here.

For the former president, he is going to try and define Vice President Harris. Of course, she is only 51 days into her presidential candidacy. It's extraordinary when you think about the rapid turn of events since he last appeared on the debate stage in June. But trying to define her and trying to point out some of the contradictions, perhaps, since her 2019 brief presidential candidacy, when she was on the left of her party, to how she has evolved to be a more centrist.

But for Harris, she is going to also point out some flip flops that the former president has made. I'm told she is likely to zero in on abortion. Abortion rights has been the anthem of her candidacy. She talks about it everywhere she goes. This is something that is the biggest difference, perhaps, from the last presidential campaign. So, look for that to be front and center as well.

Of course, the former president is trying to tie her to the Biden Harris administration. He'll be talking about that a lot. As for President Biden, he told reporters just a short time ago he spoke to his vice president. He said she is calm, cool and collected. Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes, both sides getting ready for this historic debate tonight. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining us right now as well. Kristen, what is Donald Trump focusing in on looking ahead to tonight's debate?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Trump's advisers and his allies say that he is going to be focused on the issues. He has been particularly preparing to focus on immigration, on inflation, on crime, the things that they think will help propel Donald Trump back to the White House in November, if he can stick to those issues.

Now, obviously, as we have reported, Donald Trump's team says he doesn't do preparation, that essentially everything that he does in the campaign trail serves at some kind of preparation for the actual debate. They talked about him answering questions at the New York Economic Club, as well as taking questions from voters in Pennsylvania during a Fox town hall. They say that is his version of preparation.

[18:05:01]

But in addition to that, we also know that he meets regularly with his senior advisers for what they call policy time or policy sessions. And during that time, they have gone over specifics on what questions could be asked, how to pivot away from topics like abortion, which they expect to come up tonight, to things like immigration, like crime, like the economy. They want him focused on the issues.

But I will tell you, Wolf, I have spoken to a number of Trump allies, of Republicans, who are deeply concerned that Donald Trump is going to devolve into personal attacks against Kamala Harris, and that's something his team has warned him against. They believe that she is going to try and get under his skin, something that we have seen is not that difficult to do. They want him not reacting to that, but only talking about policy, talking about the issues.

But, Wolf, again, as we have seen time and time before, no matter what level of preparation Donald Trump has before he gets on that stage, one, if she is able to get under his skin, it is likely we will see him react. He is notoriously reactive. But, two, we don't know what version of Donald Trump is going to show up tonight. They have urged him to maintain the same posture he did during that first debate against President Joe Biden. However, again, what kind of Donald Trump, what version of him, shows up tonight is only up to one person. That is Trump himself.

BLITZER: We will find out fairly soon. Kristen Holmes reporting for us, Kristen, thank you very much. Erin, back to you.

BURNETT: All right, Wolf. All right. So, you know, Kristen's reporting, Bryan, I'm curious. She's saying that they're encouraging him not to verbally say anything, which, by the way, he was able to do during the Biden thing with the mics. He successfully not opened his mouth when he's not supposed to on the mics. But he does do that facial reaction and that they view that as a positive thing, the kind of smirks and grimaces, and is that really a positive thing?

BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN: It is when you consider what could be said, right? You know, anytime President Trump sort of talks about anything but the issues, that tends to garner significantly more attention than the issues that matters before the American people. So, if he were to say something during debate, I'm sure at the top of the hour, every panel on CNN would be discussing the insult that he said, and not about the case that he's made about Kamala Harris and the economy, Kamala Harris and inflation.

BURNETT: So, you'd rather the facial expression.

LANZA: Absolutely. What are you going to say about the facial expression? He smiled, he smirked, it's the end of the conversation. People can actually have a drawn out conversation when he says something because they can go to old clips and now you have a montage of stuff and I don't want any of that stuff. Let's just talk about Kamala Harris record.

BURNETT: So, Lulu, one thing that's going to be different on this stage than we've ever seen before -- there's a lot of things, right? But one of them is going to be the whole age situation. You had two old guys before, but Trump was the younger guy. And now you have -- he is 18.5 years older than the woman who's going to be on the stage with him, right? So, the age dynamic has completely changed. How does that play?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it plays very poorly for former President Trump. I mean, I have said this before and I'll say it again, she looks like the future and he looks like the past. These visuals matter. That's why you've heard the Trump campaign and the Trump team, you know, going and measuring things and seeing where everyone is, you know, for this debate because he understands that visuals are very important.

You know, compared to President Biden, he looked vigorous. He seemed energetic. But compared to a woman who's 20 years his junior, I mean, it remains to be seen exactly how he's going to be perceived. And don't forget, this is a side by side comparison. This isn't people looking on a T.V. and trying to imagine how he is. This is actually going to be -- people are going to have to see this in real time. And so I think it's going to be very significant.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think also to the question that you're asking, Bryan, that goes to discipline. Can he be disciplined on this stage? We want leaders who we believe can be disciplined, whether they are meeting with foreign leaders, whether they are handling a pandemic. I think that has been Donald Trump's Achilles' heel, shall we say, for some time. He is not a disciplined candidate. And that kind of worked for him in 2016 because people could sort of kept waiting for this pivot. Well, now we know the pivot is not coming. This is who he is.

And so when you have that side by side, if Kamala Harris is out there laying out her vision, talking specifics, which by the way, Trump doesn't talk a lot of specifics, I think that also will make the lack of discipline, and the old versus young, much more stark.

BURNETT: What does it say, Bakari, though -- and I know, you know, you can take a look at a number any way you want, but just, you know, when Harry was over there at the wall and he was saying that 60 percent of the people who have not made up their decision described themselves as moderate, and I was saying a lot of people might say, how could that be? How could you do self-describe as a moderate and not be sure in this that people might, you know, say that seems odd what does that say to you?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I've always envisioned the country not to be like us, right? I mean, they -- thank you, Bryan. But the majority of the country doesn't like eat, sleep, wake up --

BURNETT: Self-awareness is a really good experience (ph).

SELLERS: They're not like us. I mean, they just -- they have these 9:00 to 5:00's, they work, they make the country go. I mean, they're focused on making sure their kids get picked up and, you know, whether or not J.D. Vance wants their grandmothers to take care of them or whether or not they actually have to pay for childcare out of pocket.

[18:10:05]

I mean, these are real decisions. And so they'll tune in tonight and they'll watch and they'll see who they like best.

One of the things about this test that Donald Trump has, and I don't think anybody's articulated this yet, is that Kamala Harris will get an opportunity to question Donald Trump. That is not something prohibited tonight. And the moderators will allow that to happen. So, when she answers a question, when she punches, and then she turns and looks at him and articulates a clear question, and Linsey Davis and David Muir sit back and say, well, Mr. Trump, he has to respond. There's no facial response. He literally has to verbally respond.

And I'm not sure he's prepared for that. Joe Biden could not do that. As much as I love him, he couldn't do that. Kamala Harris can.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Think about this term moderate in two different ways. There's moderate in terms of right versus left. And on that question, The New York Times poll that came out this week shows that Donald Trump kind of wins on that, that he is not viewed as too conservative, but she is viewed as too liberal. But there's another way to think about moderate, and that's temperament. And CNN's own polling asked, do you think of this person as more extreme or more mainstream? And on that, Harris did have a slight edge in the battleground states.

So, while Harris really has to convey to voters, I promise you I'm not as liberal as Donald Trump says, Donald Trump has to convey. I promise I'm not as extreme and wild and I'm not the madman that Harris is going to portray me. But that is within his own control as well how he presents himself.

BRAD TODD, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The voters have already accepted the things they don't like about Donald Trump. They a lot of them don't even know the things they don't like about Kamala Harris yet. She is further left than the American electorate. She's much further left than the people are going to decide the election in Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Nevada and states like that.

Donald Trump's challenge is that ideology is not his favorite thing. And so tonight he has to run a debate on the thing that's not his favorite thing, show the American people how much further out of the mainstream she is on the issues and on ideology. That's the trick. Not his favorite way to go about it, but that's how he wins.

BURNETT: Does he lose people, Bryan, tonight? Okay, so you can talk about fracking and how she needs to be more moderate. Whatever she believes or not, I'm just going to put that aside for a second. She's going to be more moderate on it than she has been in the past. And where else are progressives going to go? But she might win some moderates.

For him, it's different. You take abortion, and all of a sudden he tries to moderate and get some of those moderates. But isn't there a greater risk that he loses conservatives if he tries to moderate on that issue? And that is going to be a core issue tonight.

LANZA: Listen, that's why you saw him come out with that abortion initiative in Florida. Because the day before he sort of said, you know, six weeks is not enough for me and it caused the base to sort of get all worked up. I mean, listen, it's a difficult position for President Trump to navigate. He's still been trying to navigate it nine years into this. But, you know, his current position is, it is actually is a moderate position for Republicans. He doesn't think nine months is acceptable without exceptions and he thinks six weeks is too short. He wants a little bit more. You know, that is where the country is. The country is not at banning six weeks and the country is not at a limited abortion. So, he's moderating the party.

And then he also brought forward recently, you know, funding IVF. That's unprecedented for a Republican. I'm a Republican. The first thing that came to my mind is how are we going to pay for that? So, you have Donald's position, you have the traditional Republican Party, and you have Donald Trump sort of moderating the party in that position. It may not be enough for these people, but it's moderation.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Whatever he may or may not believe, the issue with abortion in particular is that he has to own the fact that he put three Supreme Court justices on that ended Roe v. Wade. And beyond that, there is -- no, but nobody trusts him to not do something extreme again.

FINNEY: Exactly, because people know who he's beholden to.

BURNETT: All right. Pause there. Our special coverage does continue in a moment, including Trump previewing what could be a new line of attack.

Plus, it may be the one issue that sparks the biggest fight of the night. What is it? Wolf and I will be back.

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BLITZER: We're back here live in Philadelphia. Former President Donald Trump set to land soon at the airport here just ahead of tonight's high-stakes presidential debate. Democratic Vice Presidential Nominee Tim Walz offering this preview of what he expects to see tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Tonight, you're going to watch Vice President Harris lay out a plan for this country, a new way forward. You're going to hear her talk about an economy that is an opportunity economy where everybody matters. She's going to talk about education being a path to a better future, not long-term student loan debt.

On the other side of that screen, you're going to see a nearly 80- year-old man who's in it for himself, talk about revenge and talk about how bad this country is and talk us down on everything he does. He's going to try and tell you that putting a tax on the middle class is always a good thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: And joining us now, one of the most recent Democrats to win statewide office here in this state, it's a must-win state, we're talking about Pennsylvania, the senator, John Fetterman, is joining us right now. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

As far as tonight's debate is concerned, former President Trump said this about Vice President Harris earlier today in an interview with NBC News, and I'm quoting him now, he said this, you don't know what to expect. She's changed all of her policies over the years. How damaging has Kamala Harris' views, for example, on the issue of fracking, a big issue in Pennsylvania, been to her campaign, especially here in Pennsylvania?

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): No. In fact, I've been saying the very same thing since 2016, that fracking is not going to be a defining issue in this election, and I said that exact same thing in 2020. And they tried to lie against Joe Biden through that too. And the same thing is going to happen in 2024. And Harris is going to prevail, but it's going to be very close. But this is not a race about nuance. This is going to be a very stark choice. It's going to be the choice.

And if you want that kind of depravity, and the kinds of bizarre kinds of positions that he pivot and talk about electrocuting sharks and bizarre other kinds of statements, and I don't understand some of the things, but he has no standards at this point and it's difficult to really understand, but that's a very stark choice here and it's not going to be talking about just on fracking.

[18:20:23]

BLITZER: It's interesting. Kamala Harris explained her pivot on the issue of fracking during last month's CNN interview by saying her values have not changed. What is the difference between changing your policies and changing your values?

FETTERMAN: Let's talk about Trump, who appointed three extreme right justices, and they killed Roe. And now he's talking about now trying to walk back a lot of the things and actually talking about female reproductive freedom. There's -- like Trump changes what -- he doesn't have any values. He talks about bizarre kinds of terms.

And, I mean, look, whether it's the insurrection, or whether it's his convictions, or whether it's, you know, talking about -- I mean, it's really hard to really understand that it's going to be -- and now we're just talking about fracking and those kinds of nuance, when all of the things that has happened and with the kinds of things that Trump has said. You know, it's really -- I just encourage you to hold him to the same kind of standard we're talking about small little kinds of talks about relatively obscure kinds of policies throughout all of this.

BLITZER: The latest poll out of Pennsylvania from CBS News, Senator, has the race tied at 50 percent. What could happen tonight to change those numbers for either candidate?

FETTERMAN: No, that's what I've been saying, that it's going to be very, very close. I said that Trump has a possibility of winning at '16, where most people thought Clinton was going to win. And people thought that Biden could prevail by a couple points, and I knew it's going to be closer. And now that's expected what I would see right now, around 50-50. And it is going to be very close.

And I don't expect that anything dramatic is going to happen here that is going to have like a long-term kinds of that. We're going to talk about it for a couple days, we're all going to move on, and it's going to come back to that very, very stark choice that we have here. And it's going to be very close, and that's why I believe Harris is going to carry. But there's not going to be a runaway for one side or the other.

BLITZER: In that same CBS poll, Senator, 49 percent of white voters in Pennsylvania who don't have a college degree, say economic opportunities for working class people will get worse if Kamala Harris wins. What's your reaction to that?

FETTERMAN: My reaction is simply, I think, if you're really going to think if you want the kinds of four years that Trump had when he was president, you know, that really hasn't been the case right there. But what Joe Biden has done and what now as part of now what Harris is though she's part of the team that put us through the pandemic. She's part of that team and now that now delivered the kinds of economy that is the world's envy throughout all this. And she's the kind of next president that's going to stand up for freedom -- female freedom, and that's really -- it really comes down to that very stark choice.

BLITZER: Senator Fetterman, thanks as usual for joining us. We appreciate it.

FETTERMAN: Thank you.

And our special coverage will continue in just a moment, including J.D. Vance now backtracking after pushing a story about Haitian migrants eating pets in Ohio.

Plus, we have not seen the candidates shake hands since 2016. Will that change tonight? Stand by.

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[18:25:00]

BURNETT: Welcome back to a special edition of The Situation Room. Vice President Kamala Harris expected to use tonight's crucial debate to hammer former President Donald Trump over his muddled messaging on abortion. It is an issue that has been crucial in state after state, and voters have voted for more choice, even in deeply red states, making it a complicated issue for the president, the former president, and the first presidential contest since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade two years ago is obviously, you know, where we are tonight. And Trump appointed the justices who are responsible for that overturning.

Joining me now, the Republican governor of North Dakota, Doug Burgum. And, Governor, it's a pleasure to talk to you.

So, let me just ask you about this issue. It is obviously going to be crucial tonight. Trump at one point said that Florida's six-week ban was too much, right, that he thought that was too draconian. Then he backtracked. I'm curious, Governor, how you see this. I know you have a near total abortion ban in your state. So, are you worried that if tonight Trump feels that he needs to talk to moderates, that he needs to move more to the center on abortion, that he could alienate some of the core Republican voters watching?

GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): Hi, Erin, great to be with you. And no not worried about that at all. President Trump has been very clear that this is an issue that should be left to the states. He's been unequivocal about saying that he would not support and not sign a federal abortion ban.

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And he also understands that across our country, that some states have more conservative and other states less conservative views about this issue. And this is back in the hands of the state legislators or the people on the ballots voting across the states, as it should be. This shouldn't have ever been a federal issue.

And President Trump, in his debate against Joe Biden early this summer, actually, people felt he won the debate on abortion against Joe Biden. If it comes up tonight, I think it'll be a chance for him to really be clear about his position, because there have been a lot of misinformation, a lot of lies told about his position. And he'll have an opportunity to have people understand where he stands on this.

BURNETT: All right. And people want to know where he stands, because, frankly, Governor, it has been confusing. You mentioned the national ban. At one point, he said he doesn't support a national ban. At another point, he had suggested a 15-week national ban on abortion would be, his words, very reasonable. But when it comes to where he stands on this issue, let me play for you part of why reasonable people could be quite confused.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm very pro-choice.

I'm also proud to be the most pro-life president in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, he said, I'm very pro-choice, and he said, I'm the most pro-life president. Governor, I'm curious, because you do know him well, you spent a lot of time with him, you were, you know, maybe even potentially going to be the V.P. Do you know how he personally feels about abortion?

BURGUM: Well, I think what is important is how he feels about it from a policy standpoint. And like I said, he's been super clear that he does not support any kind of federal ban. And that's why he was supporting returning it back to the states.

And I think as president if people have got concerns about reproductive rights, you know, he supports IVF, he supports fertility treatments, he supports all, as he supports exceptions for life and health of mother for rape and incest. So, his position is the moderate position on this one, and yet I know that conservatives still support him, because in a conservative state, it's left up to the people in that state. But how he feels about this as a voter in Florida is very different than him as the policymaker, and he's been very clear on his policy.

BURNETT: I want to ask you about J.D. Vance. I'm sure you're aware, there was this viral story about undocumented Haitian immigrants eating cats and ducks and geese and pets in Springfield, Ohio, and he had tweeted about this and now he's saying that this could potentially be false.

So, Governor, just so everyone understands yesterday, he said, reports show the people have had their pets abducted and eaten by people who shouldn't be in this country. Where's our border czar? And here at CNN, we then fact-checked it, a spokesperson for the city of Springfield, Ohio, said that they hadn't received any reports of any such abductions or eating of pets. But now, today he says, well, maybe it's not true.

I'm curious, Governor, you know, putting aside the nitty-gritty of whether someone did or did not abduct a pet, to get to the substance of this, does it frustrate you that Vance may have said something that was untrue? He's admitting that now it may not be true. Does that take away from the legitimate issues on immigration?

BURGUM: Well, no. I think the issues on immigration are so important to our whole country, because it's just undeniable. It doesn't matter whether you're a Republican, independent, a Democrat, where are you stand on this issue. If you've been like me, as a governor of North Dakota, where we've had troops down at the southern border most of the Biden-Harris term, if you've been down there and actually seen the situation, you'd understand that we do have a mass invasion. That's just undeniable. And we also have got mass casualties because we've lost the equivalent of five Vietnams to overdose deaths during the time that Biden and Harris have been in office.

And this is affecting every state and every communities, the border community. And this is a very important issue to voters. And I think people understand that on the border, President Trump is strong and Vice President Harris has been part of the open border policies of this administration, which is hurting every city in America.

BURNETT: All right. Governor, well, we'll see if those are some of the words that we will be hearing from the former president tonight on the debate stage. Thanks very much. I appreciate your time.

And our special --

BURGUM: Thanks, Erin. BURNETT: Thank you. And our special coverage continues. Next, Wolf and I are standing by for the former president to arrive in Philadelphia for the debate, as we're learning new details about how Vice President Harris is planning to keep her momentum going.

Plus, President Biden just revealing what he wants to hear tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage. Donald Trump's plane is getting ready to land. It's just landing in Philadelphia right now. He's flying in from Mar-a-Lago down in Palm Beach, Florida. All of this happening as the Trump campaign is looking to capitalize on various aspects of tonight's debate.

And the Democrats are doing the same thing. They're planning to have the vice president headline a series of very high dollar fundraisers as they ramp up spending in key battleground states, the campaign urging donors to give early so they can deploy money in states where early voting will soon be underway.

Let's bring back our panel with us right now. David, money talks in politics, and the Democratic campaign has raised a lot of money.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, Kamala Harris is going to be able to do a lot of talking. She has definitely raised a lot of money, and as you know, Wolf, that gets poured into mostly television advertisements, still even in today's digital age, most of that money goes into linear television advertising, and, of course, into campaign infrastructure in battleground states, which is really fascinating because these two campaigns are approaching the so-called ground game from totally different perspectives.

[18:40:08]

But the advertising blitz that is to come, the fundraising blitz, and, by the way, because she's raising so much money, one of the most precious commodities in the campaign ask any campaign manager is the candidates' time, she's going to headline some of these, but she's not going to have to do as much of that as if she were not raising as much money as she is grassroots. So, that's a key thing as well. But also you're going to start seeing her again a lot in these seven battleground states.

We haven't seen that much of it because she went -- she did an interview with Dana Bash. She went away and sort of did debate prep. She had her convention to plan for. We saw it when she first became the candidate, but now we're going to see the real battleground state blitz.

BLITZER: And early voting is about to begin in several states. And that could potentially be significant, especially as they're throwing a lot of money around. KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Sure. And it's part of why this moment is as important as it is. I mean, the degree of early voting and how that has changed has really upped the pressure on candidates to make sure they're not missing any single one of these big moments.

And, you know, for Harris, I mean, we've talked a lot about this tonight, but I think it is -- I don't think that we can overstate the degree to which this is a moment for her that is unlike any she has had in her political career and in a way that it is simply not the case for Donald Trump. This is the stage I mean, sometimes Donald Trump's on these stages, and what he does is self-defeating.

But he has been there a lot. He knows -- you know, I think called him a master of stagecraft. You know, he knows where every single camera is. His people have been in there mapping them all out. This is her first time on a stage of this level. And that's, I think, why even, you know, if people are going to get their ballots in the mail and vote one way or the other tomorrow, this night matters all the more.

BLITZER: You can see Trump's plane has now landed here in Philadelphia, will be getting off soon, coming over to where we are right now, to get ready for this historic debate.

Laura Coates, you're our chief legal analyst. Kamala Harris has been an attorney general in California. She's been a prosecutor, a district attorney. She knows how to make cases and argue before a jury, for example. That could come in pretty handy tonight.

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It absolutely will, as is overseeing an overall investigation. That's an important part of being a prosecutor, methodically knowing how to identify weaknesses and strengths, figure out how you can get ahead of somebody's message, to undercut it, take the wind out of someone's sails, but to strategically insert moments and gems for the audience, to ensure that as you close and bring everything together in a culmination, you can be as persuasive as possible.

One disadvantage, of course, is, in a courtroom, you can read the room immediately. You can know who's leaning into you, you can know who's leaning out, you can see furrowed brows, you can see people who might not be buying what you're saying. But in this instance, she won't have that benefit. But what she does have is some of the polls. Politics now aids her where a jury's absence would disadvantage her.

But, ultimately, this is a psychological game. She cannot take the bait in the way that many defense counsel might try to do so in a trial, trying to make you unnerved, trying to get you off kilter. She has to stay focused. She can't take the bait of say a mispronounced name or somebody trying to call her something different. She has to stay focused.

Now, Trump on the other hand has to exploit all of those characteristics as well and hope that it will throw her off her game. But at the end of the day, the voters, the jurors, they have to know that, substantively, both have made a proper case because they will both be held to a burden of proof.

BLITZER: As you know, Jamie, Trump is underwater with female voters now by double digits, something along those lines. What can he do, if anything tonight, to change that?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So, as Kasie said, self- defeating, Trump is famously self-defeating with women voters. There is a reason we all know the phrase, nasty woman or nasty women, because he has used it so many times.

And, look, Harris' people feel that she triggers him both as a woman and as a woman of color. So, one of the things we'll look forward tonight is, does she get under his skin? Does she trigger him to go after her as a woman or a woman of color? Because that can have an enormous effect on how women voters react to him.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, one of the things I'm going to be curious right at the beginning when they both walk out on the stage at this debate. Will they actually shake hands? What do you think?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We've been speaking among ourselves during the commercial break about how in recent debates, there hasn't been handshaking. If I were advising Donald Trump, and I doubt that he would take the advice, but the first thing I would tell him to do, regardless of whatever may have been negotiated in the rules, walk across that stage and extend a hand.

Because I think it would be so important for him to try and demonstrate temperament that is not exactly what people think and might also throw her if there's a magnanimous gesture on his part to begin the debate.

[18:45:13]

BLITZER: And here in the City of Brotherly Love, that might be appreciated.

SMERCONISH: It might be appreciated, yes, we just hope in the City of Brotherly Love that this campaign has an ending because, Wolf, I took a look recently, I was reminded of the fact that you made the call on Saturday after the last election. I'm worried if it takes that long this time, a lot of misinformation will be spread in the meantime.

BLITZER: You wanted to make a point?

KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Just briefly, Wolf, I just think we're talking about whether or not they're going to shake hands. These two people are at the pinnacle of American politics. They have never met each other.

And that is a statement about the divisiveness and the division in our country that is unlike anything else in this symbolic way that I can think of.

BLITZER: Let's shake hands. Not that hard. Easy to shake hands.

Thanks to all of our great panel.

Coming up, the story behind this new magazine cover painting, a grim picture of a second Trump term.

Stay with us.

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[18:50:20]

BLITZER: Welcome back to our special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM on this truly historic debate night in America.

Donald Trump just landing in Philadelphia for tonight's debate and about to walk off his plane. Just moments ago, President Biden arrived in New York City, where he will watch tonight's debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.

MJ Lee is joining us right now from the White House.

MJ, what are you hearing first of all, about how President Biden is feeling tonight not participating in this presidential debate, but watching it like the rest of us?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Wolf, it wasn't even three months ago that President Biden's disastrous debate performance against Donald Trump shocked so many people. And tonight as his vice president, Kamala Harris, faces off against Donald Trump, he is in New York City, ahead of the 9/11 anniversary tomorrow, and we expect that he is going to be watching just like you said, like the rest of us from his hotel in the city.

But as a source close to the president tells me, earlier today, the gravity of this moment is certainly not lost on him, that he understands and certainly based on the experience that he himself has had including that last debate against Donald Trump and other presidential debates that he has participated in, the exciting and the pressure that goes into a night like tonight, and also the intense pressure and the focus that is going to be required of his vice president as she tried vice to have a good showing against the former president.

Now, we have reported, of course, that the president and the vice president have spoken about the debate. But those close to the president have really remained tight lipped about what advice the president may or may not have given, but he did tell reporters as he was leaving the White House earlier that he thinks that the vice president is calm, cool, and collected. Certainly, he is one of the many Democrats that is really rooting for the vice president to have a good debate performance tonight.

BLITZER: MJ Lee at the White House for us -- MJ, thank you very, very much.

Erin, back to you.

BURNETT: All right, Wolf.

And tonight on the debate stage, Harris and Trump are sure to paint two very different visions for the country. That's obvious. For some people, Trump is the change America needs and other see a much darker outcome were he to win.

"The Atlantic" just publishing an unprecedented and so obviously very unusual October cover. If you didn't see it today on social media, take a look at it. There's no headline. The dark image, sending a message on its own. It depicts Trump leading a circus wagon to a defiled Capitol.

My next guest is "The Atlantic" staff writer Tim Alberta, who's reporting a showcase in the special edition of "The Atlantic".

And, Tim, this statement, I mean, the cover is obviously a statement in and of itself. I saw it on Twitter this morning.

What was the thinking behind this cover at this moment?

TIM ALBERTA, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, Erin, thanks for having me. I think the theme that runs through this issue is as illustrated there on the cover that Donald Trump is not just riding back to Washington, but that he's obviously got the elephant caged behind him and that, of course, is symbolic of his relationship to a Republican Party that is entirely in hock to Trump.

That has been -- that has been remade from the top-down in his image, and a party, whereas at the beginning of his presidency in 2021, there were still so meaningful pockets of resistance where there were still real checks and balances on Donald Trump from within the GOP, that this is now a party that shows no appetite for dissent from him whatsoever. And obviously there are certain cases of that that are more notable than others.

BURNETT: And I want to talk about those. We are just looking, Tim, right now at the former president just arrived in Philadelphia after the debate. So obviously arriving not long for it. His son Eric got off the plane after him. We understand that his son, Eric and Eric's wife, Lara, will be attending the debate tonight with the former president.

But you talk about how that caged elephant and that image and some standout. I know there's a lot of stories in the issue about Republicans who bend to Trump's will, right, who said one thing at one time and now were talking very differently. Obviously, one of them is Senator J.D. Vance.

Another is Senator Mike Lee. You write about him. He was a Never Trumper and has become one of Trump's biggest champions.

Let me just show the juxtaposition to every everybody of what was and what now is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MIKE LEE (R-UT): If anyone spoke to my wife or my daughter or my mother or any of my five sisters the way Mr. Trump has spoken to women, I wouldn't hire that person. And I certainly don't think id feel comfortable hiring that person to be the leader of the free world.

[18:55:05]

I support president Trump.

He is our one opportunity to choose order over chaos and putting America first over America last. It's time to get behind him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Tim, you report that in a second Trump administration, Mike Lee is angling to be attorney general.

How did a switch like that happen when it's so personal, you're talking about your wife and your daughters, and then you are all in?

ALBERTA: Well, and, Erin, I think just as personal, is Mike Lee as a supposed champion of constitutional conservatives. And this was really his M.O., this was his image, a self-styled Tea Party insurgent who came to Washington in 2010, like so many other Republicans in that year, promising to put the Constitution above his fidelity to the Republican Party. And in fact, in 2016, when Trump emerged as the Republican nominee, Mike Lee led the charge at the convention that summer to literally rewrite the rules of the Republican Party so that they might stop Donald Trump from becoming the nominee in Cleveland that summer.

So here we are, eight years later, in the summer of 2024, and when I'm pressing Mike Lee on how he could have gone from that place in 2016 to now enthusiastically supporting Donald Trump in 2024 he says to me, well, remember, he did in fact leave office, basically saying that sure, he attempted a coup, but the coup failed.

So something here has changed at a personal level, at a -- at a -- at a political level. And really the story of Mike Lee is in so many ways the story of the modern Republican Party, the story that we illustrate on the cover of the matter magazine.

BURNETT: All right. And I know that you go into with stories about him and your reporting all the way through.

Tim, thanks very much. I appreciate it.

And appreciate all of you for being with us. Our coverage of debate night in America continues after this with a special edition of "OUTFRONT".

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