Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Soon: Trump Rally In Key Battleground Arizona; Trump Says He Won't Debate Harris Again; Harris Calls For Second Debate After Trump Says No. Rep. Debbie Dingell (R-MI), Is Interviewed About Harris Repeats She's The "Underdog" In The Race; Garland Slams Efforts To Turn DOJ Into A "Political Weapon"; Key U.S. Security Chief On Threats To Election Workers Across U.S. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 12, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Former President Donald Trump is scheduled to take the stage in Arizona. That is, of course, another key battleground state with just 54 days until election -- the election. Trump is holding a rally in Tucson right after announcing on social media that he will not participate in another debate with Vice President Kamala Harris. And Harris said moments ago, the American people deserve another debate. Stay tuned on that one. If you ever missed an episode of the lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcast. You can also follow me on Instagram at Pamela Brown. CNN, same with X. The news continues on. CNN, with both Blitzer in the Situation Room.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, SITUATION ROOM: Happening now breaking news, Donald Trump says he won't repeat, won't take part in the second debate with Kamala Harris, trying to spin their showdown this week is a win for him, even as his allies are deep into damage control after his rocky off message performance. We're standing by to see if he has more to say at a rally this hour in the battleground state of Arizona.

Also tonight, Vice President Kamala Harris is firing right back, saying she and Trump owe it to voters to face off again. Harris is working to build on her debate momentum with events in the swing state of North Carolina. Plus the U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland slams efforts to turn the U.S. Justice Department into what he calls a political weapon. We're breaking down his fiery speech to staffers and his warnings about the threats and the attacks they are now facing. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the Situation Room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN, breaking news.

BLITZER: The Breaking News this hour, Donald Trump declaring there won't be a second presidential debate between him and Kamala Harris, the former President, hosting the announcement online shortly before his rally this hour in the battleground state of Arizona. We'll monitor that. CNNs Steve Contorno is at the Trump event in Tucson. Eva McKend is with Kamala Harris in North Carolina. We'll get Harris's reaction to all of this. But Steve, let me go to you first. What reason does Trump give for not doing another debate? STEVE CONTORNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just moments ago, Trump posted on his website Truth Social, laying out his case for why another debate is not necessary. He wrote and I quote, "When a prize fighter loses a fight, the first words out of his mouth are, I want a rematch." Polls clearly show that I won the one the debates. And he ended with saying, in all caps, "THERE WILL BE NO THIRD DEBATE". He also said that the Vice President should "focus on what she should have been doing for the last four years."

Now, I should note that a CNN poll of registered voters who watched the debates, 67 percent of them, excuse me, 63 percent of them said that Harris outperformed Trump. Trump, though, is making the case and his campaign has made the case that they have gotten more of a bump out of this debate than Harris has. And they see no need for a second debate when 65 million people watch the first one. So instead, he is hitting the road.

Today, he's in Arizona, a critical battleground, also a border state. So we can expect that immigration will be on his mind. It certainly was at Tuesday's debates. He also is going to focus on the economy on this -- behind me on the stage, there are signs set up with some of his economic messaging, including make housing great again and no taxes on tips, even in a state like Arizona, where it's a border state and immigration ads have been flooding the airwaves. Most voters say the economy is their number one priority going into this election, just as it is in all the other swing states, Wolf.

BLITZER: Steve Contorno on this evening for us. We'll see what Trump has to say this hour and we'll stand by for that.

Now the vice president Kamala Harris out there on the campaign trail in North Carolina and still pushing for a debate rematch with Trump. CNNs Eva McKend in Greensboro, North Carolina for us right now. That's where Kamala Harris will soon hold her second event in the state today. So Eva, what's the latest? What does she already say?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the reason why her campaign wants another debate is because they believe that that platform illustrated in their view that the former president is unfit for the presidency. And although winning a debate is not the same thing as winning an election, they feel as though overall it just provided a lot of momentum for the campaign though they are still measured in their response and know that they have a lot of work to do.

Wolf, let's talk about North Carolina. They believe that this state is really in play this cycle for a whole host of reasons. One of which they feel as though the candidate, the Republican candidate for governor here is especially weak in a way that benefits them. They also are encouraged by the amount of momentum here when it comes to early voting, 161,000 people have requested ballots to vote early. You also have nearly a dozen historically black colleges and universities in this state, and so they can speak directly to those voters.

[17:05:13] I can tell you that I spoke to some young women in the crowd from Bennett College. They are very excited, and this is the first time that they'll be participating in a Presidential Election. And so for those reasons and then also running on the strength of reproductive rights, they think that they can really compete in this state in a way that they haven't been able to do in the recent past. I'll leave you with this Wolf.

The last time a presidential candidate was a Democratic presidential candidate was successful in this state, it was 2008 with President Obama, And let's take a listen to how the Vice President spoke about the debate in Charlotte earlier this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, Two nights ago, Donald Trump and I had our first debate. And I believe we owe it to the voters to have another debate because this election and what is at stake could not be more important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: Now Wolf, say that they aren't successful in Pennsylvania, here in the state of North Carolina, if they are able to pull out this state, with North Carolina and a few other states, they can still get to that critical 270 electoral votes. So that is why she is here today, making two stops. That is why they are investing so heavily here in the South, Wolf.

BLITZER: And North Carolina clearly a critical state, Eva McKend on the scene for us. Thank you very much.

I want to bring in our excellent political experts right now. Jeff Zeleny, I want to remind our viewers of the results from our CNN instant poll of debate watchers the other night, 63 percent said Kamala Harris won the debate, compared to just 37 percent who say Trump won that debate. Are you surprised Trump is now foregoing the chance to have a better performance in front of 10s of millions of voters?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, only surprised in the fact that if Donald Trump holds to this, and I think we should say if he holds to not wanting to do a third debate, it's simply him giving up on a very large audience, which is something he very rarely does. But one of the things he clearly did not like was that contrast on stage. The contrast benefited Vice President Kamala Harris. It did not benefit Donald Trump.

Of course, he could have a rematch. He could actually prepare for this debate, which clearly he did not do for the debate in Philadelphia. But no, I'm not surprised necessarily at the outcome, because he is trying to live in an alternative universe where he says he won the debate. He says polls say he won the debate. That clearly is not true.

Republican advisers, Republican allies, Republicans who want him to win tell me they think he missed a big opportunity. So the reality here is he believes he can sort of live in this unity or this world where he is saying he won but he clearly didn't. But the contrast with Harris is something that clearly does not appeal to him a second time around.

BLITZER: Yes. Good point. Michael Eric Dyson is with us as well. Michael, thanks for coming in. It wasn't that long ago as you and I remember when the Trump campaign's slogan with regard to debates was quote anybody, any time, any place, they even sold t-shirts emblazoned with that motto. Do you see Trump refusing to do another debate as a tacit admission that he scared and that he lost?

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, AUTHOR, "REPRESENT THE UNFINISHED FIGHT FOR THE VOTE": Of course, she beat him like a dirty rug. She smoked him like a pack of Menthols, and his fatal mediocrity was revealed. Here is a man whose delusional narcissism has made him believe that somehow he won that battle. Remember, he said she had just turned Black, so he was racially charged in his rhetoric, and then he said she was stupid and not very bright. She was so bright she just charged you with intelligence and logic and overwhelmed him. Here's a guy who's proud to be unmolested by enlightenment, facing up against a woman who was his intellectual superior, and she drugged him in all certain terms.

So yes, it makes sense for him to back off and to pretend that he has nothing else to prove when he has everything in the world to prove. But he has the privilege of his own white masculinity to hide behind.

BLITZER: Scott Jennings is with us as well. Scott, Trump is continuing to claim he actually won the debate, but this is what Republican strategist Karl Rove, a man you and I know well, writes today. Listen to this.

"Tuesday's debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump was a train wreck for him, far worse than any -- anything Team Trump could have imagined. Mr. Trump was crushed by a woman he previously dismissed as dumb as a rock which raises the question: what does that make him?" What do you think of what Karl Rove has to say?

[17:10:07]

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he missed an opportunity. I mean, there's no question about it. She came out. She had a game plan. She executed it. I do think he got some points scored on the economy, which in our CNN snap poll showed he actually went up on the question of the economy afterwards. But overall, he got off track for most of the debate after the economic portion was done.

I'm not surprised that he wouldn't want to do another debate. I don't think there's much to be gained for him in another debate. I think, you know, he's done seven. He won one, which was the Biden debate in June. The other six, the snap polls say he didn't win, and he lost three to Hillary, but he still won the election. So I don't think it's fatal, but he did miss, miss a chance to execute during this debate, and now we're going to grind it out for the next two months, it sounds like, with no big event to change the flow of the election.

BLITZER: And we'll see what happens. And Ana Navarro is with us. Ana in a statement declining to face off against Harris in another debate, Trump uses a prizefighter comparison. What did you make of that?

ANNA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Wolf, anybody who follows boxing knows that when a champion wins a fight, they either have to defend the title or retire. But if you want to keep that belt, you go back into the ring and you defend the title. So if he wants to use his own analogy, I would say to him, then go ahead and retire.

Look, we all saw it, 70 million Americans saw it. She baited him, she reeled him in. She filleted him, breaded him, fried him, and then chewed him up and had him for dinner. So this is undeniable. Donald Trump is used to lying and saying lies so many times over and over and over again that he himself begins believing them and thinks people are stupid and going to believe them also.

The reason he's not doing another debate is because he thinks it's not going to be good for him. And it's very ironic, because we all remember, he spent weeks, if not months, you know, mocking Joe Biden for not wanting to do a debate, which was false, but he would do it at every rally. I think Kamala Harris should do the same to him, mock him, goat him, call him a coward, call him a chicken. Send people in chicken costumes to his rallies. And, you know, remind him that if he wants to -- then if he's so brave and he wants to defend his boxing title, he should go back in the ring.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting --

NAVARRO: He got beaten by girl. He got -- he got beat by a girl, he got beat by a woman of color, in front of 70 million people. I hope it hurt.

BLITZER: It was a huge, huge television audience, and even more, we're watching on various social media platforms. I want to play a moment Jeff featuring President Biden and a Trump supporter that's getting a lot of attention right now. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: There you go, man, I'll -- I need that hat. Want my autograph?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hell no.

BIDEN: You can have my name. Come on. I ain't going that far.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you were doing filthy. There you go. I'm proud of you now. It don't even involve in cats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Whitehouse said today Jeff that President Biden donned the Trump cap as a gesture of "bipartisan unity". What did you make of that?

ZELENY: Look, that was when he was visiting Shanksville, Pennsylvania, dropping by, I believe, a fire department on 911. Look, that's classic Joe Biden there in many respects, that handshake there. If Joe Biden was still running for office, if he was still a candidate for the presidency, he might have shaken that hand a little bit longer and tried to win that man over. I mean, I saw Joe Biden doing that when he was running for President, obviously, a couple different times, and certainly in the office. Look, I think it was a moment of unity that there should be certainly more of and then also he's a good sport.

The voter there, obviously a Trump supporter asked him to exchange hats. I think it was a moment of good humor. Obviously, the right is using the image there, the still image of the President with the Trump hat on, to try and discredit him and discredit Vice President Harris. But if you watch the whole moment, I think it's actually a nice one.

BLITZER: Michael Eric Dyson, let me get back to you. You have a brand new book just out entitled represent the unfinished fight for the vote coming as Donald Trump and House Republicans are trying to pass a rather controversial bill requiring proof of citizenship to vote, something that is already illegal. You got to admit that if you want to vote, you have to be a citizen. So why are we seeing Republicans push for this now?

[17:15:04]

DYSON: Well, they're trying to obfuscate a fundamental right here, and that is the right of American citizens to vote. All of this exaggerated Sturm und Drang and all of this drama about voting irregularities have been proved to be much ado about nothing. On the other hand, attempts to impose ID registration laws, you can get a -- you know, use a gun registration to get the voting, as opposed to your school ID. So this is the attempt of the right-wing and conservatives to undermine the legitimate and valid attempt of people to vote, and using that now, they are desperate. They have a candidate who is an orange apparition, who has really expended all of his political capital, and all he can appeal to now is xenophobia, nativism and prejudice.

And on the other hand, we have a candidate who is trying to bring America together, all races, all creeds, all ethnicities and nationalities. And in our book, we explore the historic legacies of inequality that have driven the attempt to make the vote something that was hard to get for average, ordinary people.

BLITZER: It's an important book entitled to represent the unfinished fight for the vote. We'll be reading it and certainly anxious to get your thoughts down the road, Michael Eric Dyson, and the whole team, guys, thank you very, very much. Coming up, we're going to get a reaction to Trump's refusal now to debate once again from a key Michigan Democrat who's warning the race is still razor close in her key battleground state representative, Debbie Dingell is standing by live. And the Trump campaign is now attacking the United States Attorney General Merrick Garland after garland denounced threats and intimidation of his staff over at the U.S. Justice Department.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Its bankers David

Muir and Lindsey Davis sat there and only corrected me on things where I was right but didn't correct Kamala on Project 25 that I knew nothing about on the bloodbath hoax that has been totally debunked, which had to do with the automobile industry that is going to be dying. And it's dying under this administration. They're all going to be shipped out to China and everybody in the automobile industry making, manufacturing automobiles vote for Trump.

We're going to bring back that industry these people are killing you. And she talked about knowing, it was all false. She talked about the Charlottesville hoax, and these people did nothing about it, which has been totally debunked, as they say, by snopes and snoops and everybody else. And go look it up, go to snoops, whatever the hell that is. Now I hear, that's a liberal site, and they came out totally in favor of me. That's got to be a bad thing but they said they gave you total phony series. Kamala Harris said that no state allows abortion in the ninth month, which is a complete and total lie. They do. They do. And even after birth, in some cases, she claimed.

I want to monitor women's pregnancies. I don't want to -- I don't want to do that. I don't want it. It's a total -- I don't want to do that. Women, I won't be following you around to the house. Hospital monitoring. No, she made it up. She's a liar. She doesn't work at McDonald's. She said she worked at McDonald's, right?

[17:20:09]

Right? She worked at McDonald's, and she was working so hard. There's only one problem, she didn't work at McDonald's. She's a liar, liar. She claimed that I want to deny people IVF treatment, when in fact, I want to require insurance companies to pay for it and I came out totally in favor of IVF. That's fertilization for the men in the audience of which we get a lot of tough ones here.

She claims she doesn't want to ban fracking, when she said repeatedly over a 10 year period, I will not have fracking. Then about little while ago, she goes, I'd love to have fracking. Her pollster came back and said, this is not good. In Pennsylvania, you want to ban fracking. That's not so good. That's a big part of what they do, right?

And she came back -- she came back, and all of a sudden, she thought fracking was wonderful. Here's what happens with all of these things right? After the election, she goes back to where she was. She claims she doesn't support mass gun confiscation, when in fact, she supported it entirely and through her entire career, think of that, she wants to confiscate your guns. Does anybody in the audience have a gun? Raise your hand. Would you mind if this lunatic knocked on your door?

Hello, I'd like to take away your gun. Especially the women won't allow it. They're not going to allow it. That's unbelievable. What is that, about 100 percent of the audience? Let's go. Does anybody in the audience not have a gun? Right? There's somebody. So if you want to keep your gun, we don't have to go through the rest of it. You want to keep your gun, vote for Trump, that's all. I promise. But you know, she did something even worse than that. You know what it is? She was the leader of a thing called a movement,

defund the police. How about that? She was the leader of the movement to defund the police. Now, think of it. Anybody that wants to defund the police, that's called she's down and dirty, left. Okay? That's down and dirty. If she's in there for a week at defund the police, we don't want to be President. We don't want to for anything, frankly. But all of a sudden, all of a sudden, she's, no, I never said it.

You know, she actually goes around saying she never said it. But we've got like 10 years of tapes where she's saying it, with the guns, with the fracking, with everything we mentioned. She had many years of tapes but the public was not fooled. They saw right through it, Kamala's lies and unprecedented partisan interference of two low-life anchors. They're low lives for them to do what they did, and they wouldn't correct her on like Project 25.

I don't know what the hell it is. I purposely have not read it. I could but I don't want to because they never had my authorization. And for them to allow her to get away with me everything I said, well, we don't think it's true, like the crime statistics. The FBI didn't report the most crime ridden cities. They didn't do it. They left out large numbers of areas where they had a lot of crime.

So the numbers came in. They weren't up too much. And if anybody in this audience doesn't think there's more crime now, there's so much more crime now. But they gave false and fraudulent numbers. They did it with something else, 818,000 jobs, think of it. They said they had 818,000 jobs that didn't exist. So your jobs numbers look better, but now they had to do. What happened is they would take it away by a leaker.

Usually, I don't like leakers, but I like this particular whoever it was. But when a prizefighter loses a fight. You've seen a lot of fights, right? The first words out of that fighter's mouth is, I want a rematch. I want a rematch. And that's what she said. I want to rematch. Polls literally show that I won the debate against comrade Kamala Harris. And as you probably know, because you know when you say Harris, Does anybody know who Harris is?

[17:25:11]

Now, Kamala is a very different kind of a word. It's a nice name, a very nice name, but you know her as Kamala. You don't know her as Harris. When you say Harris, everyone says, who the hell is that, right? But she immediately called for a second debate, which means that she was like a price fighter that lost a fight. We had two debate now.

I had a debate with Crooked Joe Biden, right? And I had another debate with her. She and Crooked Joe have destroyed our country with millions of criminals and mentally deranged people pouring into the U.S.A, totally unchecked, unvetted, and with inflation bankrupting our middle class, it has gotten bad. Everyone knows this and all of the other problems caused by Kamala and Joe. It was discussed in great detail during the first debate with Joe and the second debate with Comrade Harris. She was a no show at the Fox debate. You know, Fox invited her. She was a no show.

I sat with the great Sean Hannity. Does anybody know Sean Hannity? Good man? He's a good man. And I said, Where is she? And she didn't show so we did a town hall and he got great ratings in that town hall, I'll tell you right now, got really great, lead all of television for the week. It's not bad, right? Simple town hall turned out to be -- It turned out to be a town hall from what it was supposed to be, but she didn't show up and refused also to do NBC and CBS. She went over to ABC, which, in my opinion, has taken a big hit, because these two people were bad news. They kept screaming at me.

I said, why are you screaming. I'm saying to myself, I'm looking at -- I always liked him. I'm not going to watch him anymore. I'm not going to watch him because he's not legit what he did. I'm not going to watch him. And his hair is not as good as it used to be, you know? Kamala should focus on what she should have done during the last almost four-year period. She kept complaining. Well, you know what, I'm in I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that, I mean, and at the end of the debate, I said, why don't you just do it?

You could leave right now. Why don't you do it? I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do that, and then I'm going to do this and that and that. Remember, at the convention, when she went out and they nominated her, though she got no votes, they nominated her. You know, she came in last place in the primaries, right? And then she got -- and then she said, Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. No, she's a threat to democracy. She is a threat to democracy. But you remember when she went out and she said, thank you.

Do you remember? That it was the weirdest thing. Am I wrong because they were saying, JD and I are weird. No, we're very solid people. She's weird. And that Vice President of hers is really weird. He's really.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. We're going to continue to monitor Donald Trump. He's speaking in Tucson, Arizona right now and making all sorts of very weird statements, including that he had a monumental, his word, monumental victory over what he called Comrade Kamala Harris at the debate earlier this week because I want to bring in, seen as Kristen Holmes, she's in Los Angeles right now where Trump will be holding a fundraiser later tonight, and seen as CNNs Chief Financial Affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny is back with us as well.

Kristen, break down what Trump just said in Arizona because he's going on and on and on, making up a lot of stuff.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONALCORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, most of this is him trying to relitigate the entire debate. I mean, we've been hearing him now for something like 15 minutes go through line-by-line various attacks. But now he is in front of a very friendly audience who is cheering him on. As you said, he said he had a monumental victory. At one point, he said that they won with women and independents. Of course, as we know, our polling did not show that. They have

pointed they the Trump campaign to a number of conservative straw polls taken right after the debate. But as we have reported repeatedly, there were a lot of people who went into this debate knowing who they were going to vote for. So it's not surprising that, if you look at a conservative straw poll, that conservatives would think Donald Trump won the debate. But obviously our polling didn't show that. He went through a number of different claims. He criticized the moderators.

All of this appears to be a lead up as to why he is not doing this third debate, as he announced earlier today. Just a couple of things that he said, he said that the Kamala Harris claimed I want to want monitor women's pregnancies. That's not something I want to do. But he really particularly took issue with the fact that the moderators fact- checked him unsurprisingly, and then he said that they didn't fact- check her even when she was talking about Project 2025. That is something we know has gotten under his skin of all things. He mentioned this twice in just the short span. He was speaking that they didn't say anything about the fact that he has claimed to have nothing to do with Project 2025.

Then he went on to his same claims about the fact that he won the debate, and that she said, no, to the other debates that she asked for a second debate right away, which means he won. And, Wolf, this is just him again, relitigating the entire debate. I can tell you time and time again over the last several days, I have picked up the phone and called Republican allies of Donald Trump, who have said in different words that they were disappointed with his performance on Tuesday night.

Do they think it cost him the election? No. But he is hearing from people, and he is hearing these reports of Republicans saying that he could have done a better job. He should have stuck to the issues. That is what every Republican that wants him to win in November has told me about his debate performance. And clearly it is getting back to Donald Trump, who seems anxious on stage. He is ranting. He is angry. All of this again, relitigating Tuesday night, but this time he is in front of a crowd of Trump supporters. You can hear them cheering. He's getting the reaction he wants in that room.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: It certainly is. Jeff, what did you make of Trump's explanation that we just heard for why he won't debate Kamala Harris again?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I mean, he is trying to create an alternative reality. I mean, we've seen him be successful, at least among Republicans, in doing that before, about the outcome of the 2020 election and other things. One thing he was not talking about were those words printed on the screen on the stage right behind him.

This was designed to be a message about the economy and about housing costs and his other economic proposals. They were printed on stage right behind him, and he certainly is not talking about those, at least at the moment. But look, he is clearly trying to sort of reset the conversation here. But to Kristen's point, so many of his allies thought that he missed an opportunity.

He went down one rabbit hole after another. He followed the exact debate that the Vice President was trying to leave for him about crowd sizes, et cetera, and he's ranting. But that does not mean that his supporters won't like it. They obviously will, but one of the whole issues here is he spent so much time in his bubble delivering many of the lines on stage at the debate that he does at rallies, into friendly audiences, and they simply do not comport with the reality here. But we've seen this movie many times before. What we don't know is how this one will end.

BLITZER: I'm sure we'll see it many times down the road, Jeff Zeleny and Kristen Holmes to both of you. Thank you very, very much. And we'll be right back with more news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:37:08]

BLITZER: At a rally in North Carolina earlier today, Kamala Harris told the crowd she's the underdog in this race. Let's discuss what's going on with Representative Debbie Dingell, Democrat of Michigan. Representative, thanks so much for joining us. Earlier today, you told my colleague Kasie Hunt that you were thrilled by Kamala Harris's debate performance earlier in the week, until you got a reminder from a local official in your state of Michigan, I want to play for our viewers what you said. Listen and watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (R-MI): It's just closer than people realize. He stayed on message on immigration. And immigration is powerful, it leads to insecurity, fear, both in economics, the job market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what are you hearing Congresswoman from voters in your state of Michigan, which is a key battleground state, now that you're home?

DINGELL: So I just got home, but I want to tell you we've got the first poll that's been done post Tuesday night by Mitchell Research for Mears, and it shows that what my gut said this morning is correct. It shows that it's a statistical dead heat in a head to head just between the two of them. It's 48-48 while 56 percent of the people think that she won the debate.

If you take all of the candidates that are on the ballot, she's up by one point, which for me, is not comfortable. So I think that while clearly I hear everybody, and I love hearing, I agree with everybody how well she did. I think that President, former President Trump, Donald Trump, is very strategic and refusing to do another debate. I made that prediction to Kasie on Tuesday night.

I knew he would go after the moderators of that debate. And we've got a lot of work to do, and can take nothing for granted. The bubble of Washington, D.C. and commentators talking to each other is not the real world. And I will be in union halls, farmer markets, veterans' halls, VFW's this weekend. And I want to see what people are saying. But this poll confirmed my gut.

BLITZER: So you're worried, obviously, which is understandable. Kamala Harris's vice presidential running mate, Tim Walz, is landing in your state of Michigan, any moment now. Harris will certainly be back soon. What do they need to do to get ahead in this dead heat race in Michigan is immigration the place to start?

DINGELL: What they got to do is talk about the economy there, and we've got to talk about trade. You know, Democrats did a terrible job of talking about trade in 216 and Donald Trump played to union workers fear and anxieties. President Biden and Vice President Harris delivered -- delivered on that. They have to talk about it and remind people what he promised and what he didn't do, how he's promising billionaire cuts not doing anything for the wor -- working people of America. So he's got to -- she's got to come in here. Tim Walz has to come in here.

[17:40:03]

And Tim Walz is very good at just talking in everyday terms and talking straight talk. That's -- I've known him forever. I think his straight talk is going to work in Michigan. They've got to be here. They got to be present, which, by the way, Democrats were not in 216 and we can win. I'm Debbie determined, not Debbie downer. We will win. But if we take one thing for granted, we won't. And that's why we got to really work hard in Michigan.

BLITZER: Successful candidates often say they got to run as if they're losing in order to make sure that they win. You say Kamala Harris needs to focus in on the economy, which, of course, is a huge issue. Debate watchers told CNN after the debate, they favored Trump by some 20 points on that specific issue. How does she turn that around?

DINGELL: She has to show. First of all, I -- I hear it from young people to seniors about how they affordable housing is a serious issue for her. I don't think Donald Trump's ever thought about affordable housing in his life. That's one of the first economic issues that she talked about. I do hear new -- new workers concerned about their jobs. He's not keeping us competitive, by the way. We are -- the auto industry is fighting in a global marketplace.

Electric vehicles are one of the vehicles of the future. He wants to destroy it. We have to not let him play the union workers fears. But talk about how we lost a decade of competitiveness in the 70s because we weren't ready for the global marketplace with small cars. We can't let Donald Trump get away with his playing to people's fear and anxieties. We have to give them the facts show them how we're not going to lose jobs. We're creating jobs, bringing the supply chain home. And nothing he ever did when he was president did that.

BLITZER: One of the most divisive issues in your party, and especially in your home state of Michigan, is the war in Gaza. Kamala Harris has stuck closely to her script that she's working tirelessly around the clock for a cease fire, even though those talks are deadlocked, at least right now. Is that enough for your constituents in the so called uncommitted movement who are devastated by all the carnage that's been going on over these months in Gaza?

DINGELL: You know it's a particularly bad day again in Michigan because our Attorney General filed some charges against some students who were protesting this issue. I think that the Vice President has been much more direct on this issue. Former President Trump doesn't care about what's going on in Gaza. He doesn't care about my Arab American constituents.

I have to remind them what he did when the first week that he was there, he wanted to deport them. Does he know how many he -- they want to deport? She's got to talk straight talk. We all want a ceasefire. We need that ceasefire. We need the hostages to come home. And it's a -- it -- look, I'm going to tell you, it's one of the serious issues we have here in Michigan. But I think we've got to talk real facts with the community and what is at stake if someone like Donald Trump is elected for the Mideast.

BLITZER: Representative Debbie Dingell of Michigan, thank you very much for joining us.

DINGELL: Thank you.

[17:43:17]

BLITZER: Up next, former President Trump's campaign on the attack after the Attorney General Merrick Garland condemned those using the U.S. Justice Department as a political weapon. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Former President Trump's campaign just issued a statement attacking the Attorney General Merrick Garland, hours after he delivered a very forceful speech to U.S. Justice Department employees responding to what he calls, and I'm quoting him now, an escalation of attacks against career prosecutors, all this while alluding, alluding to former President Trump, and never mentioning his name. CNN's Brian Todd as the latest. Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this latest back and forth between the Trump side and Merrick Garland and the Justice Department comes as the tensions between those two entities have reached alarming levels, with the Attorney General generally seeming exasperated today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): An indignant Attorney General takes aim at those who he believes have leveled threats against prosecutors and other staffers at the Department of Justice.

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will not allow this department to be used as a political weapon.

TODD (voice-over): In an impassioned speech to justice employees, Merrick Garland said it's dangerous now for people at the department to simply do their jobs, and he condemned what he called the escalation of attacks against government lawyers, law enforcement agents and others.

GARLAND: These attacks have come in the form of conspiracy -- conspiracy theories, dangerous falsehoods, efforts to bully and intimidate career public servants by repeatedly and publicly singling them out and threats of actual violence.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Very polite.

TODD (voice-over): Garland never mentioned former President Donald Trump by name, but it was clear the recent actions of Trump and his allies fueled much of his frustration.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, THE WASHINGTON POST: The former president definitely amped up the threats against the Department of Justice, and he has been threatening to put people in jail who work for the Department of Justice, who work for election offices by threatening them with this idea that they were cheaters during the election.

TODD (voice-over): Indeed, last weekend, Trump threatened prosecution and long prison sentences for election officials and political workers who Trump suggested could cheat in this year's election. The former president posting on Truth Social quote, when I win, those people that cheated will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

It's part of Trump's efforts to cast doubt on the integrity of this year's election, even though there's no evidence of widespread fraud or irregularity in any recent U.S. election. Trump has often suggested recently that he would weaponize the justice system to go after his political opponents if he's elected, again. Even though, during this week's debate, he accused the Democrats of doing that to him with the recent criminal prosecutions against him.

[17:50:07]

TRUMP: They weaponized the Justice Department. They used it to try and win an election, they're fake cases.

TODD (voice-over): Garland defended the Department's integrity.

GARLAND: There is not one rule for friends and another for foes, one rule for Democrats and another for Republicans.

TODD (voice-over): And he reiterated his prosecutors and agents won't be intimidated by political attacks.

GARLAND: But it is dangerous and outrageous that you have to endure them.

OLORUNNIPA: He's worried about election related violence. He's worried about Trump inspiring someone who may take what he is saying and run with it and feel like they need to take things into their own hands.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: The Trump campaign responded to Merrick Garland's speech today with a statement calling Garland's conduct disgraceful, saying his actions have done, quote, tremendous damage to a once great institution using phony charges to interfere with the presidential election on behalf of the Democratic Party. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you very much. Brian Todd reporting.

Let's discuss what's going on all the rhetoric that's coming from the former president of the United States and his allies, including threats to election officials. Joining us now here in The Situation Room, the director of the U.S. Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency at the Department of Homeland Security, Jen Easterly. Jen, thanks very much for joining us.

You just heard Brian's report. Trump on Saturday, threatened to jail election officials if he wins in November. He posted, when I win, these people that cheated will be prosecuted. Has your agency reached out to any election officials to provide support for them in the midst of these threats?

JEN EASTERLY, DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: So as the federal government lead for election infrastructure security, we are in regular communication with state and local election officials across the nation, providing them support and resources training to help protect themselves. But I'll tell you, Wolf, this is one of the key things that election officials have been talking about for years, are these threats of harassment and violence against election officials and their families largely stemming from unfounded claims that the 2020 election was fraudulent.

I think we need to remember that election officials are not some faceless bureaucrats. They're our neighbors. They're our friends. They're in our communities. And they're not doing this for pay or glory. They're doing it because they believe in our democracy and they deserve our support and our respect and our gratitude.

BLITZER: They're hard working Americans. They're doing important work. And they don't deserve these threats. How much does Trump's rhetoric, his rhetoric and his allies rhetorics lead to an increase of harassment and threats to these election workers?

EASTERLY: Well, there have been a long standing problem with physical threats. We've heard this for years now, threats of harassment, threats of violence, swatting, and that's why we are constantly looking to be able to provide resources like active shooter training, deescalation training. We provide physical assessments of polling places to ensure that we can work with election officials across the country to reduce risk, and of course, they work very closely with local law enforcement to help them reduce risk to both people and to facilities.

BLITZER: Jen, I know you've said that election in -- infrastructure has never been more secure in our country. How do you convince Americans of that, particularly the Trump supporters, who clearly hear all these threats coming from Trump?

EASTERLY: Yes. So let's be clear, this threat environment is more complex than ever. We have cyber threats. We have the physical threats we just talked about. And we have the threats from foreign adversaries who are intent on undermining American confidence in our democracy. But I spend an enormous amount of time with election officials. They have done tremendous work to ensure that the security and resilience of election infrastructure is better than it has ever been.

They have put safeguards in place to mitigate risk, and I have incredible confidence in them, and the American people should as well. But for those who don't, be part of the process, be a poll worker, talk to your election official. It's a transparent process. What they'll tell you is three key things. First of all, for the voting systems that you'll use to cast your ballots, they are not connected to the internet.

Secondly, 97 percent of registered voters will cast their vote in jurisdictions that have paper records. Those records can be verified to ensure accuracy. And finally, election officials put multiple safeguards. There's testing before they use election equipment, there's cyber security controls, there's physical security controls, and there's post-election auditing. So multiple layers of controls that can help to ensure that risk to election infrastructure is reduced as much as possible.

BLITZER: And these threats coming in from Iran, from China, from Russia right now, how serious are they?

EASTERLY: They're very serious. And we've been talking about this for months, working with the intelligence community and the FBI. We've put out a lot of advisories on this. It is very clear that our foreign adversaries, Russia, Iran, China, are intent on interfering and influencing in our elections, specifically to undermine American confidence in our elections and to sow partisan discord. And we as Americans need to ensure that they are not successful. We need to come together and ensure that we do everything we can to preserve our democracy.

[17:55:28]

BLITZER: Thank you very much for all you're doing. Jen Easterly, thanks very much for coming in. We really appreciate it very much.

And coming up, Vice President Kamala Harris is already needling former President Trump over his debate performance and calling for another one, but Trump is insisting there won't be a rematch. We're going to take you inside the dueling campaign, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:55]

BLITZER: Breaking news, Vice President Kamala Harris keeps pushing for a second debate with Donald Trump after the former president says there won't be a rematch. We're covering both candidates back out there on the campaign trail tonight in crucial Sun --