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Netanyahu Says, Iran Made A Big Mistake And Will Pay; White House Says, Iran Launched Nearly 200 Ballistic Missiles At Israel; Soon, Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN), Sen. J.D. Vance (R-OH) Face Off In High- Stakes V.P. Debate; Soon: Walz, Vance Face Off In High-Stakes VP Debate. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 01, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And we're following breaking news, a growing war in the Middle East as Israel vows new strikes after Iran launches the largest attack on Israel ever.
Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. This is a special edition of the Situation Room. I'm Wolf Blitzer.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kasie Hunt in the New York spin room for tonight's vice presidential debate. And, well, most of the missiles were intercepted, but there were of course a few hits in Central and Southern Israel. This is new video of an Iranian missile striking an Israeli air base. This is a base that Iran tried to hit back in April.
BLITZER: And only moments ago, Kasie, I spoke to former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and he told me this is the moment Israel needs to take out Iran's nuclear facilities. All this is coming as Israel is continuing to target Hezbollah targets. Just moments ago, the Israeli military issuing new evacuation orders for Southern Beirut. This is a very densely populated area where Hezbollah holds a lot of sway.
Jeremy Diamond is standing by. He's joining us from Gedera in Israel. Jeremy, what have you learned so far about the damage on the ground caused by these Iranian ballistic missile strikes?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was a terrifying night in Israel as we saw some 180 ballistic missiles fired by Iran towards Central and Southern Israel. I'm on the grounds of an elementary school here in Central Israel, and you can see behind me the damage that was wrought as a missile struck this area right beside the school. Those are second and third grade classrooms that you can see there where the walls have been broken down, the windows shattered as well.
The Israeli military says they cannot yet confirm whether this was indeed an Iranian missile, but we saw officials here putting together the pieces of the shrapnel to see if they can identify the specific type of missile that was used here. But it did indeed come as Iran fired 180 ballistic missiles at Israel.
We saw video of the impacts happening, not only on areas, civilian areas like this, but also some of the air bases in Israel. The Nevatim air base, for example, CNN has geolocated several videos now showing multiple explosions, multiple impacts by those ballistic missiles at that air base. We've also seen impacts closer to Tel Aviv, near an intelligence base that the Israeli military has just north of that city.
And so now, Wolf, this is certainly a very tense moment in the region, as the Israeli military vows that there will be consequences for this attack. When Israel carries out that retaliation is not clear yet, but, certainly, Wolf, this is the latest escalatory step in a region that is already very close to boiling over.
BLITZER: It certainly is. As we mentioned, Jeremy, the Israeli military has issued new evacuation orders in Lebanon tonight. What can you tell us about that?
DIAMOND: That's right, Wolf. Nearly every night over the last week or so, we have seen the Israeli military issuing new evacuation orders for parts of Southern Beirut. And these are areas where the Israeli military says they are going to strike Hezbollah targets.
The Israeli military very much trying to take advantage of this moment where they feel like Hezbollah is in disarray. Their operational capabilities have been significantly dismantled over the course of the last couple of weeks. And so they are striking targets there.
Of course, the impact on civilians in Beirut and in Lebanon has been vast. As we've seen, about a million Lebanese civilians have been displaced. The Israeli military also appears to be expanding its ground operation in Southern Lebanon.
Last night, we were very close to the border as we saw Israeli troops crossing into Southern Lebanon. Tonight, the Israeli military issuing a new order declaring a zone close to the Lebanese border a closed military zone. That was the exact step they took yesterday before going in to Lebanon. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right. Jeremy Diamond in Gedera, Israel, for us, Jeremy, thank you very much. Stay safe over there.
I want to check in right now with Oren Liebermann. He's over at the pentagon for us. Oren, what do we know, first of all, about when the United States learned this attack was coming and was there any advance warning from the Iranian side?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the U.S. was issuing warnings fairly early this morning around 9:00 local time here, so early afternoon in Israel, that an attack from Iran could be imminent.
[18:05:00]
Now, the U.S. has been watching for this attack for weeks, ever since the killing of Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran. Iran was poised and postured to respond. They essentially had the forces in place that they needed to carry out that response. And Iran's leaders very much promised to retaliate against Israel for that killing in Tehran, and yet they waited. Yet after the killing of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah and several others in Beirut, Iran decided to act.
The U.S. warning coming earlier this morning and the U.S. also making clear that they would do what they could to assist Israel in its defense. We saw that play out as well with U.S. Navy destroyers in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea firing about a dozen interceptors to shoot down Iranian ballistic missiles. The U.S. and Israel working very much in coordination here. The Israeli Air Force also working with U.S. Air Force Central Command in the Middle East there. So, this was a coordinated response as Israel and the U.S. were hoping to create here.
Now, some Iranian officials have claimed there was a heads up given to the U.S. The U.S. has flatly rejected that saying no advance warning was given. And it's worth pointing out why that's so significant, because in the April 13th barrage that we saw, there was quite a bit of heads up given by Iran as a sort of message that they weren't trying to carry out a massive response, it was more just a message that they were standing up for themselves. This, the U.S. says, the number of ballistic missiles fired, the targets, this shows Iran was very much trying to do damage.
BLITZER: Yes. All right, Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, thank you very much.
Let's discuss what's going on. Joining me now, the former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren. Ambassador Oren, thanks very much for joining us.
I want to play for you a little bit of my conversation I had in the last hour with the former Israeli prime minister, a man you know, Naftali Bennett. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAFTALI BENNETT, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: This is a once in a 50 year opportunity. What Israel needs to do immediately, we need to take out Iran's nuclear program, we need to attack Iran's energy facilities and we need to attack the regime itself right away, because Iran made a fatal mistake of shooting 200 ballistic missiles at the state of Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Ambassador, and you agree with that assessment?
MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: He's right. He's right. Israel has no choice but to respond. The attack by Iran tonight goes to the very heart of why Israel exists. Israel exists to defend the land of the people of Israel, created three years after the Holocaust, so that that wouldn't happen again. The Holocaust wouldn't happen again. Israel cannot afford it. And it would deeply impact our identity as that Jewish state not to react and to react in the way that Naftali Bennett has said, striking at the nuclear facilities, and those nuclear facilities threaten our national existence. They're existential threats to the state of Israel.
BLITZER: If they develop a nuclear bomb.
OREN: Well, they're a decision away from doing that right now. They violated all their international agreements. They now have enough enriched uranium for four or five bombs, and they have a delivery system that's ready to go. It's the same system they use to send satellites into space, and this is a regime in Tehran its raison d'etre, its DNA is to destroy us. So, we have every right and obligation to defend ourselves against Iran and against the Iranian nuclear project.
In addition, there are other targets, as Naftali Bennett mentioned, Iran's energy cycles, its oil facilities on the Persian Gulf and Iranian leaders. And we've shown that we have been able to reach enemy leaders wherever they're hiding, even if they're hiding very much underground.
BLITZER: So, just to be precise, Ambassador, what you're saying is Israel should retaliate by, A, knocking out, completely destroying with air power, I assume, Iran's nuclear facilities, which are used potentially to develop a bomb, all of the energy facilities, the main source of the Iranian economy right now, all the oil facilities, for example, and go ahead and assassinate Iranian leaders?
OREN: All of that is on the table. All of that has to be on the table. You know, Iran is responsible for 99.9 percent of all the violence that's been sweeping over the Middle East, and not just now. It's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, including in Syria. To this day, Iran has not paid a single price for any of this. No one has exacted any price from Iran and this will never stop until someone proves to the Iranians that this type of attack that occurred tonight and attacks throughout the Middle East will cost them prohibitively.
BLITZER: The Iranian president said late today that this latest attack by Iran against Israel, in his words, is only a portion of Iranian power. How seriously do you take that? And what happens if Israel does retaliate by launching those strikes that you support?
OREN: We have to prepare ourselves for any possibility. It's not just Iran. It's the pro-Iranian militias in Syria and Iraq. It's Hezbollah. Now, Hezbollah has been dealt a very serious blow by Israel, but Hezbollah had between 150,000 and 170,000 rockets. And some of those rockets are still raining on Northern Israel, as we're speaking right now.
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It's the Houthi rebels in the south. Israel is fighting an existential war, Wolf. We're fighting for our lives. BLITZER: Is a diplomatic solution now off the table? I ask you as a former diplomat.
OREN: The diplomatic solution is always on the table, but I am strongly of the belief that the chances of, for successful diplomacy will be dependent on Iran understanding that firing rockets at Israel is not an option. Hezbollah firing rockets on Northern Israel is not an option. There cannot be de-escalation, and I'm strongly of this belief, there cannot be de-escalation unless there is first escalation, unless the Iranians have internalized that firing rockets at Israel, firing rockets many, many times in American bases in Iraq, Syria, and Jordan, wounding and killing American service people, that will not go unanswered, will not go unpunished, and punished in a very painful way.
BLITZER: Ambassador Michael Oren, former Israeli ambassador to the United States, thanks very much for joining us, this situation clearly developing.
Our breaking news coverage of Iran's attacking Israel will continue in just a moment. Israel vowing to retaliate and to retaliate big time. But will those plans to hit back involve the United States?
Plus, tonight's vice presidential debate, a source now telling CNN, J.D. Vance is feeling good and, quote, pretty unflappable. Should Tim Walz be concerned? We'll be right back.
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[18:15:00]
HUNT: Welcome back to a special edition of The Situation Room. I'm Kasie Hunt in the spin room of the vice presidential debate that's going to start just a few hours from now. But we're continuing to follow this attack by Iran against Israel, firing around 200 ballistic missiles in what U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan called, quote, a significant escalation.
Joining us now, CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Layton, and CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour. Thank you both very much for being here.
Christiane, how much does Israel's recent successes in killing the leadership of Iran's proxy group Hezbollah play into their decision to launch this attack today?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, according to the Iranians exclusively, they issued a statement as, in fact, the missiles were still flying, saying that they had taken this action in retaliation for the attack that killed Hassan Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah, their proxy in Lebanon, that also, by the way, it delayed, you know, retaliation for the killing the assassination on Iranian territory in the summer of Ismail Haniyeh, who was the political leader of Hamas. And along with those attacks and assassinations came the deaths of Iranian Revolutionary Guard members as well. So, they say that they're taking revenge for their own people as well. But interestingly, just before the attacks last week in New York, I spoke to the Iranian vice president who said that, you know, we have exercised a huge amount of restraint, that we believe we are being dragged into a war, that we are being entrapped into a war, and we do not want a war. But if they continue, there's going to be -- you know, we're going to have to do something. And that's the dilemma here that clearly has explained, has manifest itself tonight.
HUNT: So, Colonel Leighton, Israel hasn't said what their response is going to be, only that they will respond, quote, at the place and time that we decide. I mean, what do you think the likely options are in terms of a response? If you've been listening to this program, Naftali Bennett, former prime minister, had some pretty tough words for Wolf in what he says they should do in taking the opportunity to strike Iranian nuclear sites, and the former Israeli ambassador to the U.S. agreed with him.
CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that was very concerning to hear that, Kasie. I think that the Israelis certainly have that as an option, but I think it would be unwise for them to go that far. A more realistic and sensible option in this particular case would be to do something more on the economic side or at a scaled down level on the military side. And this would be, you know, for example, attacking an airfield or several airfields in Iran or doing something like that.
The best option, of course, is to do none of the above. But that is I think where the Israelis are going, they're going to try to do something that sends a message to Iran if cooler heads prevail. They're going to go into a mode where they go after, you know, perhaps a discrete set of targets to send a message that this is, to their mind, unacceptable behavior, and then go from there.
But the Israelis do have the capability to conduct long distance aerial operations against Iran. Not necessarily completely on the nuclear side, going after a nuclear facility, but they certainly have the capability to attack, say, an airfield or a government installation if they chose to.
HUNT: So, Christiane, according to the video that we geolocated here at CNN, at least one Iranian missile appears to have hit less than a kilometer from Mossad headquarters. What does that say to you that Iran appears to be targeting Israeli intelligence facilities despite how close they are to Tel Aviv?
AMANPOUR: Well, it says that actually Israeli intelligence and American intelligence was correct. They had identified potentially three Israeli air bases around Tel Aviv and an intelligence headquarters, clearly, you're saying the Mossad headquarters. Iran itself confirmed in its statement later on that it had targeted what it called three military bases that it said was responsible for, in its words, the genocide against Gaza and indeed against them and in Lebanon, that's how they termed it, that this is now ended, according to them. And if the Israelis decide to respond, then they will respond even more tough. So, I think that you're in this situation right now that certainly it really begs the question as to what the United States is going to do, and whether the United States is going to get persuaded or dragged in by Israel to do what Israel says it wants to do, whether it's Naftali Bennett or whether it's Benjamin Netanyahu.
[18:20:10]
They want regime change and they want to attack the nuclear installations and they say that this is a once in a 50-year opportunity to do that and to change the environment.
You know, Prime Minister Netanyahu last week recently went on television and told the Iranian people that we're with you and gave a full -- you know, a full treaties on regime change. And just one other thing, I spoke to the Lebanese prime minister, foreign minister, who, as you know, the latest was caused by the incursion into Lebanon, and he said that on Friday, when the U.S. was trying to calm all this down and had said publicly that they had achieved an agreement on a 21-day ceasefire, the Lebanese foreign minister told me that he had persuaded Hezbollah to agree, which apparently they did agree, and then only, you know, 24 hours later, Hassan Nasrallah was killed.
Now, allies of Israel who support Israel's right to self-defense, like, you know, Dennis Ross has said, the big issue here is you can bomb your way to wherever you want to go, but what is the political strategy? What is the political endgame? And that Israel has not revealed yet.
HUNT: Colonel, what is your sense of what the Biden administration will do in the way that Christiane is talking about the potential options on the table for the American leadership, especially as, you know, Netanyahu was seeming to allude to this regime change, he used the phrase sooner rather than later? What do you make of all of it?
LEIGHTON: Yes, it's very interesting. You know, I think, as Christiane mentioned, the Dennis Ross idea, which is basically what are you -- the big question, what are you doing politically after this? What is your end goal? And the Israelis will have to answer that question. The Biden administration needs to ask the Israelis exactly that question. And they need to say in this particular case, you know, yes, we understand you want to do these things. You are upset that this has happened and it's it was a very dangerous escalation. But it is one of those areas where they need to really get concrete answers from the Israelis before the Israelis go ahead and do something like this. And, of course, we've seen that that's a very difficult thing to get.
HUNT: Indeed. All right, Colonel Leighton, Christiane Amanpour, thank you both very much. I really appreciate it.
All right, up next, live pictures from the spin room of tonight's high stakes vice presidential debate here in New York, as Trump has this to say about the man that J.D. Vance is facing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's going up against a moron, a total moron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Smart move?
Plus, the optics of tonight, there is a 20-year age gap between Tim Walz and J.D. Vance. Who might that benefit?
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[18:25:00]
BLITZER: Welcome back to a special edition of The Situation Room. I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York. You're looking at live pictures right now of the vice presidential debate site here in New York, where supporters of both campaigns are now gathering. J.D. Vance and Tim Walz will meet for the first and probably only debate before Election Day.
Jeff Zeleny is joining us now from inside the debate spin room here in New York. Jeff, the Iranian missile attack on Israel is sure to be a major topic tonight. What can you tell us on that front?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there is no question that foreign policy is hanging over this debate much more so than it would have been even a few hours ago, I am told that both Governor Walz and Senator Vance are likely to join U.S. officials in condemning this attack, but their agreement is likely to end there.
But, look, this is not an entire foreign policy debate. It certainly will likely lead the questioning, but there are so many other issues on the economy, on immigration and just on the top of the ticket as well. I mean, even though this is a vice presidential debate between Tim Walz and between J.D. Vance, it is also about the top of the ticket, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.
So, look for both of these running mates to try and defend and promote the candidacies for the people they are running with. But also it is the biggest moment and the biggest opportunity for both Vance and Walz to make their case as well.
For Vance's side, he is trying to improve his likability. Of course, he's been criticized for some of his comments that some critics have viewed as a sexist. For Walz, he potentially has some exaggerations of his own record to clean up. So, those are the stakes here tonight.
But, Wolf, we are five weeks before Election Day. This is likely the biggest televised moment, at least of this campaign, since there is not a scheduled debate between Harris and Trump after this. That's why this debate matters tonight, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very, very much. We'll check back with you later.
Let's bring back our panel, and, Shermichael, let me start with you. Vance versus Walz, who do you think has the advantage tonight?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think J.D. Vance is going to have the advantage tonight. He has far more experience answering very tough, difficult questions on a plethora of issues. I will acknowledge to Kate's earlier point that Governor Walz has experienced being a congressman, being a governor, but this is a very disparate stage tonight, Wolf, and some of the international crises that the country is currently facing, including some of the domestic crises as well. I'm not exactly certain that Governor Walz will be best positioned when compared to Senator Vance to put forth a proper answer to potentially resolve some of those problems.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Although Vance has only been in office for a couple of years, so I'm not sure if there's a --
SINGLETON: Well, that's a fair point I would push back though, Kate. I would say based upon the interviews I've watched over the past two years, he does seem to have a greater command of the issues from what I've seen from Governor Walz, which is one interview with our Dana Bash.
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BEDINGFIELD: I wouldn't agree with that but, well, maybe we'll agree to disagree on that.
BLITZER: You know, as you know, sources close to Vance have told CNN, we all feel very good, direct quote. Vance is pretty unflappable, the sources also said. Should Walz be concerned?
BEDINGFIELD: Well, I think this is definitely a format that I think does benefit Vance. I think he's somebody who's shown that he likes to score points, he likes the back and forth. You know, he's a Yale educated lawyer. I think this back and forth format, it probably does benefit J.D. Vance. But, you know, I think, remember, Tim Walz has also been in elected office for 20 years. He's successfully run for Congress, successfully run for governor. I don't think anybody should feel like Tim Walz is worried or nervous tonight. I think we're going to have a pretty aggressive exchange between these two guys and a pretty clear contrast on vision for the future of this country.
BLITZER: It's clear they're both pretty smart guys, too, at the same time, which is important.
Brad, let me get your thoughts, because earlier today, Trump Campaign Senior Adviser Jason Miller, a man you probably know, told Kasie this about the debate tonight. I want you to listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON MILLER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Tim Walz will be an absolute killer. He's not going to be this goofy caricature of himself, as we normally see when he's on stage and doing the weird pointing thing to Kamala Harris. Tim Walz is good. I would say the advantage definitely goes to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: On the other hand, here's how Trump described all of this last night, the debate. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You'll see it tomorrow with J.D. It'll be stacked. He's going up against a moron, a total moron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He's either going up against a total moron or going up a guy who's very good.
BRAD TODD, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, you know, his role has been very limited in this campaign so far. Last we saw him in that interview with Dana Bash, he was just basically the emotional support animal. That's really all he's done. And so I think the pressure is on Tim Walz.
But, you know, we don't really have vice presidential debates. That's not what this is. It's a debate between the presidential candidates themselves and it's their surrogates and the job of the nominee for vice president is to lay the lumber to the nominee of the other party. J.D. Vance has been doing that around the country. The Harris campaign has kept Tim Walz under wraps, so I don't know if he can or not.
BLITZER: Our Jamal Simmons is with us as well. I know, Jamal, you actually interviewed Walz late last year. I want to play something he said to you. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm an eternal optimist. Before I got in this job in Congress, I was a high school teacher. I supervised the lunchroom for 20 years. I am -- honest to God, I am the most optimistic person in the world, but I'm a realist. You don't go in there just hoping the day is going to go well, because it does not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What do you think?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I'll tell you something about that that day, that interview. He was very forceful. He knew all the points about his state. He was very clear about who he was fighting for. I think that's one of the things in these debates that people want to know. Who are you fighting for? The Democrats talk a lot about homeowners and helping them get, you know, $25,000 to get their first home or first time home buyers. They talk about seniors and making sure they had affordable prescription drugs. The Republicans talk about Donald Trump, right?
So, Democrats are here fighting for the American people. The Republicans are trying to keep Donald Trump out of jail because he's been indicted so many times and convicted. The Republicans are trying to keep Donald Trump from having to be embarrassed because he's going to lose another election. And who knows what he'll do when it's time to have that election certified because the last time he enabled people to fight against the Capitol on January 6th. So, the Republicans talk about Trump. The Democrats are talking about the Americans. It's about the future, and that's what the Democrats really want.
BLITZER: I'll let Shermichael weigh in.
SINGLETON: But, Wolf, you know, let's say I take that premise that Democrats are talking about what's in the best interest of the American people, then I think Senator Vance has a great opportunity tonight, Wolf, to say the world is on fire. And so if we're talking about the future of secure in America's interest and interest for your children and your grandchildren, do you want what you have seen over 3.5 years or do you want to move into another direction that you believe is more secure? Do you want a more secure country in terms of our borders? Do you want a more stable and economic secured future in terms of cost of living?
I think Republicans do have a case and argument to make there. And the polls suggest that the American people trust Trump and Vance more on those issues than Harris and Walz.
SIMMONS: Yes. But how can you trust Vance, who stood up in the country before and said they thought Donald Trump would be America's Hitler, right? The Lincoln Project right now has an ad that just put up with all of Vance's statements about Donald Trump and why he'd be horrible for the country and now we're supposed to believe him when he goes out front and says that he's going to be the best thing for the country. How do we buy that?
SINGLETON: I take that point that the senator has changed his mind, Jamal, but I'm not certain how many people are going to vote based upon that juxtaposition.
TODD: It's correct. He needs to talk about the Iran deal tonight.
BLITZER: All right guys, everybody stand by. We have more to discuss. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back to a special edition of The Situation Room. I'm Kasie Hunt in the spin room of the CBS vice presidential debate, where in the final hours, advisers are busy trying to lower expectations for Tim Walz, warning they expect a J.D. Vance who is prepared, polished, and eager to throw punches at Walz.
David Chalian and Audie Cornish are back with me. So, as this is, of course, unfolding behind us, we've seen surrogates like Elise Stefanik came through here. But, David, the chatter is all about the 60 Minutes interview that would have been conducted right in this complex, I think across the street, or at least --
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: House of the 60 Minutes, yes.
HUNT: Exactly, we're in the CBS -- longtime CBS News Headquarters, but now Donald Trump says he's not going to participate. And that may leave tonight as the only really big moment left on the calendar. Why do you think he pulled out of this interview?
CHALIAN: You know, his campaign put out a statement, Stephen Cheung, a spokesperson did, referring to that CBS News, according to the Trump campaign, wanted to intersperse interview with some fact-checking, like come out of the interview and do some fact-checking and what have you.
There seems to be a dispute in the CBS News statement, I know this will surprise you, and what the Trump campaign is saying about what actually happened here.
[18:40:00]
HUNT: I've never heard anything like it in my life.
CHALIAN: But CBS News says that Donald Trump actually agreed to this interview and has pulled out of it. The Trump campaign version of events is, there were discussions, but nothing was ever locked in stone.
So, we haven't heard from the former president yet. I'd be eager to hear his thinking, because we know, Donald Trump, he really likes 60 Minutes. He likes the cache that brings. He has done it many times. He talked about being stable mates with Vladimir Putin when they appeared together eight years ago on the same night. They didn't appear together.
HUNT: It's a status marker, like being on the cover of TIME Magazine, right?
CHALIAN: Exactly. And so this feeds into Donald Trump's whole sense of the media ecosystem and he likes to be able to control that. And this is interesting to me that, given that this is the last scheduled event, this vice presidential debate, that he's giving up this opportunity for a big gathering.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR AND HOST: the last scheduled event, but there's still time for there to be any number of other kinds of events, should they choose to do it. And this has been an election where both campaigns have really challenged the role of the mainstream media in terms of, is this necessary for me to get my message to the voters? And Trump has done a ton of interviews with podcasters and all other kinds of venues. And it's not totally clear that they, Harris as well as Trump, see these stages the same way.
HUNT: Well, certainly, I mean, I think that's a really interesting point. I mean, you had the influencer section at the Democratic National Committee that was really front and center, in some ways, had better access than traditional reporters might have, or at least you had to throw a couple elbows if you wanted to get as close.
But, David, I am curious because when you think about, I mean, in some ways, going to those audiences are a play to your base, right, and trying to turn out people in those spaces who wouldn't otherwise turn out, there are still a lot of undecided voters who likely watch 60 Minutes, right? So, why give up the opportunity to talk to them?
CHALIAN: Yes. First of all, part of it may just be, to Audie's point, that the campaign doesn't see their pocket of voters that they need in that audience, right? And we know that the Trump campaign theory of the case is sort of dig deeper into what you have in this very loyal base of support and get new versions of them to come out and support you.
I do think, though, this raises a question of one of the things I'm watching tonight in this vice presidential debate. Does J.D. Vance come and really try to make an appeal to the middle, to the undecided, or is he coming to find new base voters? Does Walz take a different approach? Does he actually come and try to appeal to the middle? I think we are going to see tonight which audiences these guys are talking to.
HUNT: I mean, Audie, which voter do you think each is looking for tonight?
CORNISH: I mean, that's a very good question. Both have incentive to turn out specifically the people who are most engaged and when they are going to try and find the people who are still persuadable. I think you'll see some more micro targeting, which is not something you get from a big mass media interview.
HUNT: Yes. Well, and, again, it's all about, in many ways, I think, I mean, David, you know better than I, but the low propensity voter could really turn out to be the story of this election.
All right, David, Audie, thank you both very much for being here.
All right, coming up next, our breaking news coverage continues. Wolf will speak to Congressman Jim Clyburn, a close ally of the White House, ahead of tonight's debate. Is he confident Tim Walz can make his case to the country?
And we're on the ground in battleground Michigan, in a county that could tip the scales. Undecided voters there will be watching closely.
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[18:47:42]
BLITZER: And welcome back to our special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York. We're counting down to the one and only vice presidential debate tonight here in New York between Democratic Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Republican Ohio Senator J.D. Vance.
With me now, Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina. He's a national co-chair of the Harris-Walz campaign.
Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.
I want to ask you about the debate just a moment, but first, let me get your reaction to Iran's major ballistic missile attack on Israel today, Israel promising now a significant response. I know you've been briefed. What are you learning?
REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-SC): Yes, I have been and I'm particularly concerned about any of widening of this conflict. I know that the president as most of us in the country would have voted to defense of Israel. But none of us want to see a widening of this conflict.
So I would hope that this administration will work closely with our allies to do what we can to keep this from getting into a regional war.
BLITZER: Well, let me just press you on that, Congressman. If the United States were attacked by a foreign enemy with 200 ballistic missiles, will the United States just ignore that and try to do something else or would the U.S. respond militarily?
CLYBURN: No, we would not ignore that. And we are not ignoring this.
I think the president came out with a statement that was pretty firm. The vice president re -- reaffirmed our support of that statement. But no matter what we do, we should always work in concert with our allies in the region, because in the final analysis, whatever you do cannot be sustained unless you have our allies with us.
BLITZER: Congressman, let's turn to the big debate, the vice presidential debate later tonight, it's coming up very soon. What specifically are you going to be watching for it tonight?
CLYBURN: I am going to be watching for two different visions of the country.
[18:50:03]
I think that the country is going to see the authenticity in Governor Walz, that all of us to work with him, as I did for several years in the Congress. I've campaigned with him. I've consulted with him during his governorship.
He is one of the best people I've ever dealt with in my life. I think that people are going to see that in this performance tonight, and I think we're all -- at least those of us on our side of the aisle will be pleased.
BLITZER: Congressman, there have been some newly unearthed reports and they've emerging tonight contradicting some previous claims made by Governor Walz about his travels to China, specifically that Walz was at Hong Kong back in 1989 during the Tiananmen Square pro- democracy protests. House Republicans now starting an investigation into all of this.
Do you think this is a potential problem for the campaign?
CLYBURN: Well, I have not seen those reports, but I don't pay a lot of attention to what Republicans did and investigated. They will investigate any and everything. And that's what they're doing.
In fact, it's the same because the reporting that you all do on these kinds of issues, she should suffice. For us to be using the levers of government to investigate every accusation or everything that may be revealed, it's just not the way government ought to work. We ought to be about moving an agenda for the people forward and not be using the government to investigate every rumor or everything that may pop up in the media.
BLITZER: Congressman Clyburn, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.
BLITZER: Our special coverage of tonight's vice presidential debate will continue in just a moment.
We'll take you to one of the most sought-after counties that potentially could determine if a swing state goes for Trump or Harris.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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[18:56:51]
BLITZER: And welcome back to our special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.
We are just hours away right down, a few hours from the first and only vice presidential debate. It's also the last scheduled debate before the presidential election.
Our Phil Mattingly is in the key battleground state of Michigan, where undecided voters will be watching what happens tonight very, very closely.
Phil, you'll be with some -- some of those voters during the course of tonight's debate. How will you be gauging their reaction to the candidates tonight?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: You know, Wolf, over the course of the next hour, the chairs behind me will fill in with people who have told us that they are from this area. They are currently undecided and they're trying to figure out based on what they see tonight, which way they may go come November.
Now, some of them have voted for Republicans in the past, some have voted for Democrats, but were going to be watching, Wolf, what were going to be able to watch throughout the course of this debate is how they're feeling about specific moments. Each of the undecided voters will have a dial if they turn it to the right, it will show that they feel positive about whatever they're watching and listening to on the screen. To the left, they feel negative. We're going to track that throughout the course of the evening, really identify the key moments of the debate in those voters' eyes, what they thought was a good thing of what they thought they learn something from, or maybe what they had a negative reaction to.
That's what we watching throughout the night and that after the debate, Wolf, we'll have a conversation with them to get a sense of not just their broad big picture takeaways from what they saw during the 90 minutes. But those specific moments, what stood out to them, what caused their reaction and what that may mean for the decision come November.
BLITZER: And I know, Phil, you're in Grand Rapids, Michigan tonight. That's in Kent County. Why is that county so important to both campaigns?
MATTINGLY: You know, Wolf, I'm about a half-mile away from Gerald R. Ford's presidential museum. This was a Republican bastion of strength in this state for decades. No Democrat had won this state since 1964 until President Barack Obama did in 2008, Donald Trump won the state, Mitt Romney won the state, George W. Bush got 59 percent of the vote here. Joe Biden won this county in 2020, a pretty big swing from Donald Trump in 2016.
And the makeup, the demographic make up of this county, is Grand Rapids, large cities, second largest city in the state of Michigan, but as you push out, you get into the suburban battlegrounds that have been so key over the last several cycles, Democrats have had a good run here. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, both in 2018 and in her reelection in 2022, won this county -- in 2020, won rather handily.
But how Democrats fair going into 2024 in this critical battleground state this cornerstone of that blue wall, the state of Michigan is absolutely essential for their path to victory in this state.
Keep in mind, Wolf, if you want to know what states matter, what areas matter to candidates. Well, look where they're traveling, J.D. Vance will be back in Michigan tomorrow. Donald Trump will be back later this week. That'll be his 12th campaign event over the course of his campaign, Vice President Kamala Harris, she'll be in Michigan on Friday. They know this state is absolutely critical and this county, Wolf, is absolutely critical for both campaigns.
BLITZER: Yeah, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, key states, and you're there in Michigan. We'll be watching very closely. Phil Mattingly, thank you very much.
Phil's in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. Our breaking news coverage continues right now with a special edition of "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT".
