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Tonight At 9:00 P.M. ET, Kamala Harris Town Hall Live On CNN; Harris Says, Reports Trump Praised Hitler Deeply Troubling; James Carville Says, I'm Certain Harris Will Win; Harris Warns Second Trump Term Would Lack "Guard Rails" After Former Chief Of Staff Confirms Her Praised Adolf Hitler; CNN's Clarissa Ward On Being Held Captive In Sudan. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 23, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, CNN's live town hall with Kamala Harris is now just three hours away. The vice president preparing to field questions in the crucial battleground of Pennsylvania from voters who say they still haven't made up their minds.

All of this as Harris is speaking out on bombshell reports about Donald Trump's apparent fondness for authoritarian leaders. Trump's former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly warning he meets the definition of a fascist, and confirming to the New York Times that Trump praised Adolf Hitler.

This hour, we will break down the state of the race for the White House with our team of experts and key politicians from both sides of the aisle. We'll also get new insight from veteran Democratic Strategist James Carville, who says he's, quote, certain, certain Kamala Harris will win.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

We're now just a few hours away from one of the final opportunities for a presidential candidate to take questions directly from undecided and persuadable voters, CNN's live town hall with Kamala Harris. Tonight's event comes as the vice president is calling out Donald Trump after his former chief of staff, John Kelly, confirmed reports that Trump praised Adolf Hitler.

I want to bring in CNN's Jeff Zeleny. He's live from the site of the CNN town hall in Delaware County, Pennsylvania. Jeff, set the scene for us.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolof, those undecided and persuadable voters right here in Delaware County, just outside Philadelphia, of course, will be so critical in just 13 days to the election. But they're also critical tonight. They will be asking questions of Vice President Harris, getting her insights more into policy, perhaps even some of her personality. But she, of course, has been talking entirely about Donald Trump, why she believes he is unfit for office. She spoke earlier today calling him unhinged and unstable.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump said that because he does not want a military that is loyal to the United States Constitution. He wants a military that is loyal to him. He wants a military who will be loyal to him personally, one that will obey his orders, even when he tells them to break the law or abandon their oath to the Constitution of the United States.

In just the past week, Donald Trump has repeatedly called his fellow Americans the enemy from within, and even said that he would use the United States military to go after American citizens.

It is deeply troubling and incredibly dangerous that Donald Trump would invoke Adolf Hitler, the man who is responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews and hundreds of thousands of Americans. All of this is further evidence for the American people of who Donald Trump really is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: So, the vice president drawing a very sharp contrast with the behavior and conduct of former President Donald Trump in office.

Wolf, the context of all of this is coming out in some new reporting in The Atlantic as well as The New York Times about comments that the former president reportedly made at the time of his time in office. His chief of staff, John Kelly, who, of course, was his homeland security secretary and his longest serving chief of staff, is also coming out against his former boss. He is saying that Donald Trump is a fascist and he is not democratic and also not fit to serve. Take a listen to what he said to The New York Times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Certainly, the former president is in the far right area. He's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. He has said that. So, he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, some of this new reporting certainly is feeding into and sort of extending the remarks that Vice President Harris has been making really for quite some time, trying to not only draw a contrast, but also trying to disqualify the former president in the eyes of the voters. Wolf, it's an open question whether any of these arguments actually are working. Of course, Donald Trump has said many things over the years, certainly in office and since leaving the office.

[18:05:04]

His base has stuck with him throughout all of that. So, it's hard to imagine that one certain comment would suddenly move the electorate. However, the slice of voters in the middle, the Harris campaign believes, are still movable. In fact, many of those who will be here tonight and watching as well are those undecided and persuadable voters, some independents and perhaps some moderate Republicans as well. That's why I'm told that Vice President Harris is likely to amplify her comments again tonight, trying to draw a contrast with Donald Trump.

BLITZER: Interesting. And, Jeff, how is the Trump campaign responding to all of this?

ZELENY: Wolf, the former president was campaigning in Georgia earlier this afternoon, he did not mention any of these comments from his former chief of staff or the fact that he reportedly said he wanted generals to be like Hitler's generals. However, his campaign staff and his advisers are pushing back very strongly on this. His campaign spokesman said this of Vice President Harris. He said, she continues to peddle lies and falsehoods that are easily disproven. He goes on to say, she is wholly unfit for office.

Wolf, One thing is clear in the final 13 days, indeed, the final week of this campaign, this is what the campaign is now going to be about. We're just learning tonight that Vice President Harris next Tuesday, one week before the election, will be delivering her closing argument message right outside the White House, in The Ellipse. That is the space, of course, right between the White House and the National Mall.

And that is, of course, the very site where Donald Trump delivered his speech on January 6th in the hours before the attack on the Capitol. I'm told she is going to use that very venue, that sacred ground, to make the case for why she believes it's time to turn the page. So after she does that, of course, she will be campaigning across the country to these seven battleground states. Donald Trump will be, of course, as well. But before all that, those voters questions tonight here in Delaware County, Pennsylvania,

BLITZER: And we will all be watching, of course, Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.

Our political experts are joining us right now with more analysis. And, Gloria Borger, John Kelly confirmed on the record, on the record that Trump said, and I'm quoting now, Hitler did some good things too. Hitler did some good things too. That's a quote from Trump according to John Kelly. How do you see all these disturbing revelations actually impacting this election?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, you saw what Kamala Harris did today. She came right out immediately and said that this proves that he's risky, that he is unstable, that nobody who's president of the United States should say those kinds of things. I'm wondering also whether it's going to have any kind of an impact with Jewish voters. He's making a big play for Jewish voters. He has said Jewish voters ought to have their heads examined if they vote for Kamala Harris. And now, I bet there are lots of them who are raising questions about that. The interesting thing to me is the question about whether Trump is going to directly address this and directly say that he never said that about Hitler. We know that he's denied what he was purported to have said about, you know, veterans, you know, losers, et cetera. But I'm wondering how he's going to address this and if he's going to address this or let his surrogates deal with it, which, by the way, they are dealing with it. You know, they're kind of dismissing it. Yes.

BLITZER: Yes. I mean, not just Jewish voters, but a lot of voters are not going to believe when he says Hitler did some good things too.

BORGER: Right, it's not just Jewish voters. You're right.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It certainly used to be in American politics. That was one thing. Slavery and Hitler were kind of the two things we could all agree on that were bad. There's nothing good to say about it. And this is not the first time we've heard these kinds of comments about the former president.

I think though the impact that it will have, there are undecided voters. I talked to some of them in Pennsylvania on Sunday who have literally said, I'm nervous about the fact that he seems very angry. He seems like this revenge he keeps talking about and I don't hear him talking about me. This woman and her husband had been talking about their concerns around that.

I think if they learn about these types of comments, it does add fuel to that concern that they have. The question becomes, is it enough for them to then vote for Kamala Harris or will they just not vote for Trump, which also can end up helping Vice President Harris.

BLITZER: Let's see. Erin Perrine is with us. How damaging, Erin, do you think this is for Trump going into the final days of this election?

ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, AXIOM STRATEGIES: I have to believe at this point it's not going to be that damaging. We have seen, to everybody's point here, Donald Trump be alleged or have said comments in a similar fashion in vain before and the denouncement of them and the denial of them, and it hasn't moved anything.

We're seeing that Democrats right now are really trying to drum up the emotion in the American people. They're trying to say that this threat to democracy is really what's on the ballot in November. But you still have Democrats who are saying Donald Trump's unserious, but take him seriously. They're doing contradictory, not contrast messaging.

[18:10:02]

Contradictory messaging is going to confuse voters going into the homestretch. Instead of doing an optimistic, she wants to drum up the fire in the American people to get out on Election Day. She should be selling a forward, optimistic message.

Now I will say, this is the first time I've ever seen anybody successfully do a man bite dog, what we call it, you know, we call it in politics, where you finally get someone going to The Ellipse, standing there and making these comments, going straight at Trump about it. I mean, that could be powerful. However, I still stick to my main point that everybody's already kind of seen this from Donald Trump or stories about this kind of behavior and it hasn't moved the voters --

BLITZER: So, you don't think it's going to affect swing voters or disaffected Republicans at all?

PERRINE: I don't because Kamala Harris, instead of trying to shore up the Democratic base right now where she's losing support with black men, black young men and black young Latino men, she's going after Republicans because she knows she's too soft in the Democratic base right now to try to pull those voters home.

This closing message is for disaffected Republicans, not for Democrat, not for swing voters. Because if it was for swing voters, it would be on the issues that matter to them, and that's the economy and immigration. This is a Democrat message for her base, but not for disaffected swing voters, not for Republicans.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. I think it's motivating for both. I mean, I think it reminds Democrats of why they need to show up for the polls, why they can't sit on the sidelines in this. And then for swing voters, I've been in focus groups, these are the kinds of things, the character issues, the anti-democratic messages from this former president, this is what drove them to vote for Biden and abandon Trump.

And so I think it's actually a smart message. Her coalition is not going to look like Biden's coalition. It's not going to look like Obama's coalition. It's going to be different. And you can see her making a contrast message, right? I mean, the contrast of her giving a normal speech at The Ellipse on Tuesday versus what Donald Trump did in January 6th will be quite a contrast.

FINNEY: And let's remember, she also did an interview with Telemundo yesterday. She also put out an agenda for Latino men this week. So, she is still communicating and talking, trying to talk directly to black and Latino men. I think we'll see more over the next week.

But part of her message, part of her closing message is this broad coalition, that there is a place for you and this sort of permission structure that says, we don't have to agree on everything. The question is, do you trust me? Do you trust me? Do you trust him? And I think for voters -- I agree with Erin though. Generally, I think this sort of dots of fact points don't tend to work. You have to tie it to a narrative that says the reason --

PERRINE: For the election, that's going to be enough time to try and do that after two years? I mean, Democrats are running ads in swing states right now in competitive Senate races tying themselves to Trump's policies and legislative successes. Again, it's contradictory messaging, not contrasting. Democrats aren't arguing that Donald Trump is the issue. They're aren't arguing Donald Trump. They're saying -- Bob Casey right now in Philadelphia, in the eastern part of Pennsylvania, is just running the ad that is him and the Trump policy. It's not going to help Democrats win disaffected Republicans.

BORGER: I think the bottom line question, and I think General Kelly spoke about it to the Times, the bottom question is does character count? Does it matter? Does it matter? You know, two thirds of the country thinks things are going in the wrong direction, right? Will character matter?

And I think she has to make the case and she can do that at the town hall tonight. She's made the case that he is risky and she's got to make the case that she is not risky, that she is not the caricature in the negative ads. She's not a wild lefty. She's got to do that.

BLITZER: All right. Everybody stand by. We're going to continue this conversation in a little while.

Also, just ahead, the longtime Democratic strategist, James Carville, and Republican New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, are both here live as well.

Stay with us, lots going on. You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

BLITZER: We're counting down to CNN's live town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris. That's coming up at 9:00 P.M. Eastern.

And joining me now, the veteran Democratic strategist, James Carville. He's out with a brand new op-ed in The New York Times entitled, Three Reasons I'm Certain Kamala Harris Will Win. James, thanks so much for joining us.

In a new poll from The Washington Post, which I'm sure you saw, every battleground state is within what's called the margin of error. So, why are you certain, certain that Kamala Harris will win?

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, first of all, we have tremendous party unity. We have surrogates that we have to deploy, but we have a surrogate program that's 50 times better than his circuit program. We can make the point. You've had devastating stories come out about a four star general saying that he's fascist to his bone. You had the former director under Trump of national intelligence, who was a long-term serving Republican, very Republican (INAUDIBLE) from Indiana, Dan Coats, and that he truly believes that Trump is an agent of the Kremlin.

You know, what we got to do is focus coming down and tell people exactly what's going on, who this guy is and what the stakes are in the election. And I think we can do that. And I think, you know, we have superior financial resources and, you know, Wolf, you and I are sports fans and we always kind of look for the intangibles. And I think the intangibles overwhelmingly favor us. I really do. And sometimes if you got a parade, you got to lead it. I think we're going to win.

BLITZER: Yes, it was a very strong article, very strong article you wrote in The New York Times. But I also remember, James, you were very confident about the Democrats' prospects back in the 2002 midterm elections when you famously put a trash can over your head right here on CNN after your party, the Democratic Party had a very rough night.

[18:20:01]

So, tell us why you are so sure this time around.

CARVILLE: Well, the first thing, Wolf, is you know, I'm a big believer that you have to express confidence. And like I said, I have regions part of unity (ph), superior surrogate program, you know, devastating stories coming out one after another, there's a whole rumor mill now is there's another big story getting ready to break on Trump.

I have no idea if it's true, but I spread rumors freely because that's what we do. And, you know, look, I've certainly been wrong, like anybody else, you know, but I'll stand by the way I think. I think I have good reasons to feel this way. And there's a lot of people out there that are really nervous about this election and it's causing them to not concentrate on what they need to do.

And I'm trying to say, okay, let's get together team. This is going to work, okay? We're going to run a post here and we're going to hit the open guy and he's going to be open and let's go up and everybody block and do what you got to do. And that's the only way you can win. You have to express confidence and you have to have confidence in what you're doing. And I got to have confidence that her campaign is going to be really focused coming down the stretch. And what evidence I see somewhat, I think I'm right.

BLITZER: You certainly do have a lot of confidence. You mentioned the comments from retired General John Kelly, who was Trump's White House chief of staff. Why do you think Trump is so fascinated with Hitler?

CARVILLE: Well, he had Mein Kampf on his night table, if you remember, according to a story that might be familiar, his wife. And he has always expressed an admiration for authoritarianism. I think that's who he is. General Kelly and General Milley said he's fascist to his bone, which is just another word for authoritarian and anti- democratic.

He says -- he tells you, I'm going to target my political enemies. I'm going to send the military to get Nancy Pelosi, then the whole shovel gang comes behind him and Mike Johnson and his people are like, oh, no, that's not what he really means. And he comes back and he says, yes, I really mean that. He's telling you right there.

And what he's going to say if he wins is I have the authority of an election behind me. And so I'm going to arrest you James Carville, I'm going to arrest David Levy at CNN or whoever it is that I don't like. And he's going to say, I told you that I was going to do this.

And so we ought to take him at his work, take him seriously, report what he's saying and tell people, do you really want a United States government that arrests people that disagree with it? Why don't we just go live in Iran or North Korea? I mean, there's plenty of places you can go in the world where they'll arrest you for political dissent. That's not what America is supposed to be about. And so we've got to tell people.

BLITZER: Always good to speak with you, James. Thanks very much for joining us, James Carville, for joining us here in The Situation Room.

CARVILLE: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: We appreciate it.

CARVILLE: I appreciate you. Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: And to our viewers, be sure to watch the CNN film, Carville, Winning is Everything, Stupid, this Sunday, 9:00 P.M. Eastern, right here on CNN.

And coming up, Donald Trump's latest reported comments on Adolf Hitler are just the latest in a long history of public praise for dictators and global strongmen. We'll discuss with a key Trump supporter, New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

BLITZER: We're tracking the fallout from stunning new remarks by former Trump White House Chief of Staff John Kelly on the former president's praise, praise for Adolf Hitler and apparent desire to govern as a dictator.

CNN's Brian Todd is on the story for us. Brian, this certainly isn't the first time Trump has expressed his affection for authoritarian leaders.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's a pattern that goes at least as far back as Trump's early years in the White House. But tonight, these new revelations raise more troubling questions about how Trump would behave in the White House if he's elected again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice over): Tonight, new accounts raising concerns about Donald Trump's history of admiration for strong men from his former chief of staff, John Kelly.

KELLY: He's certainly an authoritarian. So he certainly falls into the general definition of a fascist.

TODD: And from The Atlantic, citing two people who claim Trump said, quote, I need the kind of generals that Hitler had. Some analysts say it fits a concerning pattern.

MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Trump has seemingly never met a dictator he doesn't like, and not just like, but he seeks to emulate, which is the scariest thing of all.

TODD: Trump has openly praised Russian President Vladimir Putin, Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban, Chinese President Xi Jinping.

TRUMP: President Xi is a friend of mine.

TODD: And North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And then we fell in love, okay?

TODD: Trump's former defense secretary, Mark Esper, said this to CNN.

MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Clearly he has a predilection for leaders whom he perceives to be strong. And that's just how he breaks the world down. He breaks things down between strong and weak.

TODD: Some analysts worry about how Trump would behave in the White House if he's elected again.

JACOB HEILBRUNN, EDITOR, THE NATIONAL INTEREST: He fetishizes the strong man, and that's the blueprint.

Crush the media, eviscerate the independent judiciary and establish his own rule over the country.

TODD: Trump offering a glimpse of his view on presidential authority this week.

TRUMP: As president you have -- it's called extreme power, you have extreme power.

TODD: This all comes after Trump drew heated criticism for telling Fox News about his concerns over potential unrest on Election Day and how he might handle domestic opposition to him.

[18:30:07]

TRUMP: I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within.

We have some very bad people, we have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they're the -- and it should be very easily handled, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military.

TODD: Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance, defended the former president's remarks.

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Is it a justifiable use of those assets if they're rioting and looting and burning cities down to the ground? Of course it is.

TODD: Mark Esper says, we should take Trump seriously when he talks about using the U.S. military against American civilians.

ESPER: It concerns me on many levels, not least of which is you know, the impact it could have on American citizens. It's the impact on the institution of the military.

TODD: Will any of this hurt Trump politically as we move closer to November 5th?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: Donald Trump's core supporters, they are not going to be put off by almost anything. But we are now two weeks before the election and there may be soft supporters or undecided Republicans who will be repelled by this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): Donald Trump's campaign has attempted to refute Kelly's assertion that Trump expressed a desire to have loyalty on the level of Hitler's generals. The Trump campaign's communications director said Kelly had, quote, beclowned himself with debunked stories that he had fabricated and called Kelly a failed chief of staff who suffers from, quote, Trump derangement syndrome. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Brian Todd reporting, Brian, thanks very much.

Let's discuss all of this and more with the Republican Governor Chris Sununu of New Hampshire. He's supporting Donald Trump for president. Governor, thanks so much for joining us. Why do you want to vote for someone who thinks, quote, Hitler did some good things?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): So, look, let's be fair. Those comments are not helpful, obviously, with the last couple weeks. But they're extreme. I mean, this is a time when folks are going to say extreme things. I have all the respect in the world for John Kelly. Half the country doesn't think they're voting for a fascist. That's not where the American voter is.

So, I appreciate John Kelly hates Donald Trump. I appreciate a lot of people don't like Donald Trump. But at the end of the day, you know, if you want to have a whole story about how would Trump act in the White House, we've already seen it. He's been there. He was there for four years. The American people have seen it. They don't need to be told by the media, you know, speculation on how we'd act based on, you know, a statement that John Kelly makes.

So, I think people are missing the point. When you look at the extreme rhetoric that's out there right now, it's white noise. It's really all white noise. And the reason the Harris campaign is falling down, has completely stalled with their momentum, is this is the only message being put out, whether it's by her campaign, whether it's by the media. If you only talk about the other person, you're missing the opportunity to end on a positive to talk about what you're going to bring to the table.

In her town hall tonight, I'll tell you what, she spends more than a quarter of her time talking about Trump. She's missing the opportunity to convince the voters why she's earned the vote.

BLITZER: But, Governor --

SUNUNU: Don't convince anybody that you've earned a vote by bashing the other person with somebody's extreme rhetoric. That's not the way elections work.

BLITZER: But, Governor, do you actually think that having positive things to say about Hitler or dining with Holocaust deniers is anti- Semitic?

SUNUNU: Look, if you're going to compare Donald Trump to Hitler, who murdered 6 million Jews, I mean, that's a completely ridiculous comparison. It's a ridiculous comparison. And the average voter understands that. The average American sees that. They know Trump says, you know, crazy, you know, kind of wild things. Nobody knows what really happened in this conversation.

But my point is this, it's not moving a single vote. It's not shocking anybody. Anyone that's shocked by that stuff is already baked in on one side or, you know, people that have discredited are baked in on the other. And so you have this small sliver. The only thing independent voters, or I would say undecided voters at this point, the only thing they're thinking about is what candidate is going to be an agent of change that makes their family's lives a little bit better, a lot more affordable and gets government out of their lives. That's it.

BLITZER: I just want to be precise.

SUNUNU: And whoever can make that case in the last two weeks.

BLITZER: I want to be precise, Governor. I didn't compare Trump to Hitler. I asked you if you think that having positive things to say about Hitler, like Trump reportedly has said, according to several retired four star generals who worked closely with him, or dining with Holocaust deniers at Mar-a-Lago, for that matter, is anti-Semitic.

SUNUNU: Well, of course, those statements are not helpful, and those statements would be anti-Semitic, of course.

BLITZER: But are they anti-Semitic?

SUNUNU: But let's look at the other side. Do we have to go to -- no, hold on, hold on. I love you, Wolf, but do we have to go and play the tapes of all the anti-Semitism that the liberals have and progressive have pushed on college campuses all last year, constant anti-Semitism? And as much as the liberals don't want to look at that, that is in their party, and that is rooted there right here in America.

So, you can talk about Donald Trump, and you can talk about this massive faction within the Democrat party, these ultra liberals who have seemingly gotten a hold of a party and driven an anti-Israel, anti-Semitic message for months and months and months.

[18:35:02]

So, it's easy to cherry-pick one conversation that may or may not have happened without looking in your own camp. That's not fair. And you know who sees it? The American voter, every single night on T.V. And they're making that decision for themselves.

BLITZER: What's really disturbing, Governor, is that, virtually, all of Trump's handpicked top national security officials who worked closely with him for years are now warning about the threat he poses, and I'm including retired General John Kelly, retired General James Mattis, General Mark Milley, former Defense Secretary Mark Esper, former National Security Adviser John Bolton, former Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and former Vice President Mike Pence, just to name a few. How disturbing is that to you? Are they all wrong?

SUNUNU: Look, they all have -- look, there's no doubt there's a personal divide between all of them and the former president. I have my own personal divide between myself and Trump. I haven't talked to the guy in years. That's not what we're looking for. We're looking for results.

So, again, you want to go down the list of people that have quit on Kamala Harris in the first three years and four years of her being vice president, the number of disgruntled employees she has, because that list goes on all day long in Washington. Everybody knows that.

So, I get that these people don't want to see Trump in there. They have a personal axe to grind and they probably didn't have a very good working relationship. That much is clear. But at the end of the day, what's going to drive those last independent voters is not this. It's not extreme rhetoric. It's convince me that you're going to be an agent of change. And that's all we're talking about in the last two weeks here, Wolf. We've got two weeks to go. You're just trying to earn given that it's a one point race. That's where the swing is going to be on things that affect people's lives today.

BLITZER: All right. Governor, we got to go, so we'll continue this conversation down the road. Thanks very much for joining us.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: Live pictures of the stage in Delaware County, Pennsylvania, where Vice President Kamala Harris is set to take questions from undecided and persuadable voters.

Our political experts are back with me right now. And, Gloria Borger, what does Kamala Harris need to do to accomplish her goal of convincing these undecided and persuadable voters to back her?

BORGER: I think we all wonder who these people are at a certain point, but apparently --

BLITZER: They're going to be in the audience.

BORGER: Apparently, it's 4 percent of the electorate, so there you go. I think she has to tell people -- she'll talk about Trump, I'm sure, and talk about how unstable and risky he is. But she has to close the deal with voters and say, she is not risky, she is not a wild-eyed leftist, she is not the person that's being portrayed in the negative ads, that she's willing to work across the aisle. I think part of her appearances with Liz Cheney, for example, were part of doing that, not only appealing to moderate Republicans, but also appealing to undecided voters. Because when you hear Donald Trump talk about her, she's a crazy leftist, you know, and I think a lot of people have that opinion about her, and she's got to fix it.

BLITZER: What do you think, Nia?

HENDERSON: You know, I think some of this is just being warm and normal. If you look at the other town halls that she's done, these venues have been really good for her because she's been able to connect with voters in the audience. They come with their stories, economic troubles, health insurance troubles, and she's able to relate and empathize and say she's got a plan for that. I think that's sort of the main goal.

I think she has run a fairly flawless campaign. She's had 100 days to turn the ship around, to energize demoralized Democrats, to raise a bunch of money. She's done that. I think it's been a billion dollars. And so now I think it's coming to Americans' living rooms and let them know that you're somebody who can empathize and understand their problems.

PERRINE: Yes. That's really -- that's such a good point you're making about how she, in these town hall style meetings, really can empathize with people. You saw it in the Oprah conversation, where she can really soften. And, and it's that part of her that is the curious -- Kamala-curious part of the electorate wants to see more of. And so this town hall could be a really good opportunity for that if she doesn't get herself caught up in Trump, if she doesn't play the Trump hater, never ending game on loop.

But she also has to not only touch people with like her heart, but she has to be able to say a step or two into her policy positions. It can't be a one question answer because she will get pushed by voters in Pennsylvania to be like, but wait a minute, I asked that.

BLITZER: Do you think she should focus more on going after Trump or describing to the audience out there, whether in Pennsylvania or nationally, and there's going to be a huge audience, there's no doubt about that, describing what she plans to do to help improve the economy, help make their lives better.

FINNEY: So, I would do 70-30, right? And I would only do the 30 about Trump in contrast, and creating the narrative about why these facts matter and what that tells you about the kind of leader he was.

But I want to pick up on something Erin and Nia-Malika said. She does need to show empathy, but women candidates have a much higher bar that you have to be both empathetic and tough and strong. And she's got to show -- demonstrate both. She should talk to voters tonight about what she has done. That is part of the way you tell people. That's how you know you can trust me that I'm going to do what I say because I've done it before.

BLITZER: We're all going to be watching. There's no doubt about that. Everybody, thank you very, very much.

Coming up insight on the state of the historically close presidential race with one of the vice president's top supporters, Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy. He's standing by live.

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[18:48:44]

BLITZER: All right, more now on the breaking news we're following. Vice President Kamala Harris sounding the alarm about Donald Trump's praise for dictators, including Adolf Hitler, after his former White House chief of staff, John Kelly, confirmed very disturbing comments by the former president.

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut is joining us right now.

Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

Kamala Harris warned today that Trump would not have people like John Kelly to act as guardrails, her words, guardrails in a second term, if he's elected.

How much do you think she should talk about that tonight and as well out on the campaign trail?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, she's going to be able to talk about whatever she wants tonight because Donald Trump won't be there. This was supposed to be a debate, but Donald Trump was so scared to stand next to Kamala Harris knowing that there would be a clear contrast. Kamala Harris looking presidential, talking about the things that matter to people, Donald Trump, rambling, incoherent, and talking about nothing that matters to the American people that he backed out of this debate.

So it'll be Kamala Harris on her own tonight. And, of course, she has to talk about the threat that Donald Trump presents to this country. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the growing number of dots.

[18:50:00]

Donald Trump says that he is going to use the military against the enemy from within, which he describes as his political opponents, my colleagues in the United States Senate. He is now on record praising Adolf Hitler, a murderous, genocidal dictator. He is telling the country that this presidency, the second presidency is going to be dystopian, and she is also right to point out that General Kelly will not be there, General Mattis will not be there. Ivanka Trump won't even be there.

It'll be creepy, weirdo, right-wing, sycophants of Donald Trump that are going to implement all of his most dangerous ideas. He said that the military should shoot the protesters who were on the streets protesting after the murder of George Floyd it was relatively responsible people working for him that stopped him from ordering the murder of peaceful protesters. Those people will not be there in a second term and everybody needs to be wise to how absolutely out of control a second Trump term could be.

BLITZER: Why do you think senator so many of your Republican Senate colleagues are comfortable voting for someone who makes favorable comments about Hitler?

MURPHY: Listen, I think there'll be a lot of ordinary Republicans out there who may not be picking up the phone calls of these pollsters who are going to support Kamala Harris but it is heartbreaking to me that there are so many of my Republican colleagues who are still standing with him. I guess they -- they care about their own political salvation more than the safety of this country.

Obviously, if Donald Trump turns against you as a Republican today, you're career is over. And so, you know, if you want to stay in the Senate or the House or remained a governor, you have to remain loyal to Donald Trump, even as he threatens to bring down the republic.

But I think they will rue the day that they stuck with him. Maybe they think he's not serious about the threats that he's making to turn the military on his political opponents but when this democracy potentially crumbles, it'll be too late. Republicans have a chance to stand up today and even if leaders won't do that, ordinary average patriotic Republicans out there who may not agree with Kamala Harris on every position she holds can vote for her, knowing that the stakes may be nothing less than the freedom to protest your government without fear of violence, persecution or imprisonment.

BLITZER: Senator Chris Murphy, thanks so much for joining us.

MURPHY: Thank you.

BLITZER: And we'll be right back.

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[18:57:08]

BLITZER: Our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is sharing her experience after she and her team were held captive by an armed militia in Sudan.

Clarissa is joining us right now to tell us more.

Clarissa, first of all, why did you and your team feel so strongly about reporting from Sudan, knowing how dangerous it is there? And when did you realize things were going horribly wrong?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we were trying to get to Darfur, which is a part of Sudan that almost no international journalists have been able to get to for the last 18 months. A famine was declared in the Zamzam displaced peoples camp there back in August. There is disease, there is displacement, there are vicious war crimes

being perpetrated. There is the specter after a genocide was committed there from 2003 to 2005, that the worst could be realized once again.

So we were determined to get in. We went in to meet up with a neutral group, a neutral militia, the Sudan Liberation Movement, or SLM. Sadly, they didn't turn up to the appointed meeting place and so we were taken by a different militia and held for 48 hours. It was at times incredibly stressful and something of an ordeal.

We didn't know when we would see our families again. We didn't have the ability to communicate with them. We didn't know what they were going through. And obviously just the stress of sleeping out in the open, not having anywhere as a woman to relieve myself privately, I was careful to limit the amount of water I took in. And how much food I ate.

But most importantly, honestly, Wolf, we were just so bitterly disappointed that we didn't get the due to the story we went to do because as journalists, we don't want to become the story that is honestly the worst thing that can happen. We wanted to try to highlight the experience that so many civilians in Darfur having because it's like an information black hole. There's so few accounts getting out into the public.

And that's why we thought at least by talking about what happened to us, we can share our experience and shed a light on the broader picture, the broader challenges and the complexities of covering this conflict on the ground. It's not just journalist who can't get into Darfur, aid workers have a very tough time. Human rights organizations and the people of Darfur and Sudan deserve to have their stories told, Wolf.

BLITZER: They certainly do.

Clarissa, how were you and your journalistic colleagues from CNN who were held captive, how are you all doing?

WARD: We're all doing well. We're reunited with our families and we are lucky, but we want to keep the focus very much on the people of Darfur. For the stories that aren't being told. And the broader conflict in Sudan, which the U.N. says is the worst humanitarian crisis in the world right now, Wolf.

BLITZER: Clarissa Ward, we're thank -- we thank God that you and your team are okay right now, you're one of our courageous journalists and we're always grateful for all your reporting. Thanks so much for joining us.

And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.