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The Situation Room

Trump's Most Bombshell Pick Yet, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) As Attorney General; Sources Say, Some Trump Insiders Unhappy With Pentagon Pick Pete Hegseth; Behind The Awkward Smiles, Inside Biden- Trump Meeting At The White House; Trump Rolls Out His Most MAGA Picks For New White House Term; Source: Jack Smith Intends To Step Down Before Trump Takes Office. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 13, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news, President-elect Donald Trump drops a new bombshell, choosing the controversial Congressman and MAGA firebrand Matt Gaetz to be the attorney general of the United States. We're breaking down Trump's most jaw-dropping picks yet and how these loyalists might use their power on his behalf.

And that includes a deep dive on the president-elect's choice to be the U.S. defense secretary, why even some Trump insiders are shocked and unhappy that Fox News Host Pete Hegseth has been tapped to lead the Pentagon and potentially reshape the U.S. military.

Plus, we'll take you inside today's White House meeting between the incoming and current presidents. What they said in front of the cameras amid some awkward smiles and what happened behind the scenes.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

Let's get right to the breaking news, President-elect Donald Trump unveiling his stunning and polarizing choice to be attorney general of the U.S., Congressman Matt Gaetz. Trump following through on his desire to put a diehard loyalist at the helm of the U.S. Justice Department he has railed against.

Let's get some more from CNN's Kristen Holmes, who's covering the Trump transition for us. Kristen, tell us more about the choice of Gaetz that's raising concerns, serious concerns, even among some Republicans.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This is certainly a controversial pick, Wolf. I want to make one thing clear, this really felt like a surprise to a lot of us that have been covering the transition because we had spoken to a number of people, particularly who are very close to the transition, who have been working with the Justice portion of the transition, who did not name Matt Gaetz as somebody who was on the short list.

We have been told that this was someone who came out of the blue almost. He was just not somebody who had been sitting down with Donald Trump meeting with them as part of these traditional meetings, but I am told that this, in part, is because Matt Gaetz is such a loyal ally to Donald Trump.

Now, one thing I want to note here, this is what Donald Trump said in his statement. He said, Matt Gaetz has distinguished himself in Congress through his focus on achieving desperately needed reform at the Department of Justice. Matt will end weaponized government.

We cannot stress this enough, Donald Trump believes the role of the attorney general will be one of the most critical roles in his administration, if not the most critical role.

Donald Trump also has said multiple times that part of what he intends to do is get rid of the deep state. I'm putting that in quotes. When he discusses deep state, he is talking about the Department of Justice. There is an entire plan in place that is expected to be enacted when Donald Trump takes office that essentially moves the Department of Justice to be fully underneath the executive, meaning that Donald Trump would have oversight into the Department of Justice.

That also means that, for attorney general, he's going to need somebody who is going to be able to go along with anything that he wants to do, who is essentially a bomb thrower. As we know, Matt Gaetz is a loyalist to him, but also somebody who even Matt Gaetz's own critics say is a very smart person, someone who can possibly learn how to navigate the very much likely roadblocks that are going to be in the way as Donald Trump tries to implement his plan to take over the Justice Department.

BLITZER: Kristen Holmes reporting for us. Kristen, thank you very much.

Let's get some more on Congressman Matt Gaetz right now and the considerable baggage he would bring to the Justice Department if he were confirmed as the attorney general.

Brian Todd is taking a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Matt Gaetz is a great man.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In tapping Congressman Matt Gaetz to be his Attorney General, President elect Donald Trump could be swatting at the biggest hornet's nest of his transition.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS: It would be like the understatement of the year to say that this is an unconventional pick. This is a provocative pick of a provocateur, who has himself faced a lot of legal trouble, and is highly polarizing not just among whatever the American people or Congress, but inside the Republican Party himself.

TODD: If confirmed, the 42-year-old from Florida would lead a Justice Department that he has criticized and been a target of.

[18:05:00]

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I'm a marked man. I'm a canceled man in some corners of the internet. I might be a wanted man by the deep state.

TODD: Gaetz, a 2020 election denier has accused the Justice Department of being weaponized under President Biden against people like Trump. He's called for abolishing the department he's now been selected to lead and called for abolishing the FBI, often jousting with its director.

GAETZ: People trusted the FBI more when J. Edgar Hoover was running the place than when you are.

TODD: Could Gaetz now weaponize the Justice Department and help Trump go after his enemies?

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): I'm pretty sure with this pick they're not just going to go around and shut down puppy mills, right? This is a very serious pick and Donald Trump is obviously telegraphing that he means business. Matt Gaetz is one of his best weapons in Congress. He's taking him out of Congress and he's giving him the attorney general's office.

TODD: It was Gaetz who led the charge among some far right Republicans in Congress to oust Kevin McCarthy as House speaker last year.

GAETZ: This House has been poorly led.

TODD: But before that, the man who could become America's top law enforcement official had been accused of serious crimes. The Justice Department investigated Gaetz over allegations that he violated federal law by paying for sex, including sex with women who are under 18 years old.

Gaetz repeatedly denied any wrongdoing. And last year, the Justice Department announced it would not bring charges against him. One analyst says getting Gaetz confirmed could be a challenge, even in a Republican-led Congress.

TALEV: This seems destined not only to be a selection that is going to test the loyalty to President-elect Trump of Republicans in the Senate, but that is meant to provoke.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): The House Ethics Committee has also been investigating Matt Gaetz regarding allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use, and corruption. But the chair of that committee now says that investigation will end if Gaetz resigns from Congress to become attorney general because the committee only has jurisdiction over members of Congress. Gaetz has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing regarding that probe as well. Wolf?

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting. Brian, thank you very, very much.

Our Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raj who is joining us as well. Manu, what's been the reaction up on Capitol Hill?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no doubt about it, Wolf, that Matt Gaetz faces a rocky road to be confirmed, even in the Republican-led United States Senate, where they could have up to 53 seats, meaning that they could lose no more than three votes in order to get him across the finish line.

And there are far more than three Republican senators who have concerns. In fact, Susan Collins of Maine, one of the moderate Republican senators, said that she was shocked about the this nomination. But other senators, including on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which will determine will take the first crack at this nomination would have to advance this to the Senate floor.

A number of those Republicans on those committee tell me tonight, Wolf, that they are not yet sold that this is the way to go. And one of the reasons why was Gaetz's role to oust Kevin McCarthy from the speakership and the fact that Gates is under investigation by the House Ethics Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): The one thing about Matt that concerns me a little bit is I didn't like the way he handled the squabble with Speaker McCarthy. I think it was -- I thought it was unnecessary, I thought it was divisive. I think that the conference suffered, the Republican conference suffered for it.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I don't know yet, I don't think about that.

RAJU: do you have any concerns about it?

SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): Unbelievable, unbelievable. I mean, Trump is falling through on his threat to weaponize the Department of Justice, clearly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment from a Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Alex Padilla of California. But a lot of Republicans too, also either they're privately expressing concerns or they simply are not supportive of this yet, including Senate majority -- the incoming Senate majority leader, John Thune, who was just elected to that position today. He will be in charge of managing the Senate and deciding what nominations to bring to the floor and how to proceed on this. He was asked by our colleague, Ted Barrett, if he supports this nomination or if he has any concerns about this nomination. He would not go either way yet, simply saying the Senate has the role of advice and consent. So, that is where a lot of Republican leaders are at this moment saying they're not certain whether they'll be on -- get on board behind this nomination, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, Manu, thanks very much. I want to get reaction from our legal and our political experts. And, Paula Reid, you're our chief legal affairs correspondent. These investigations of Matt Gaetz, where do they stand right now, and what is his -- if he becomes the attorney general of the United States, what does that mean for the Justice Department?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Congressman Gaetz was under investigation for over two years. And for all his talk of weaponization by the Biden administration, the investigation to Congressman Gaetz was opened under Attorney General Bill Barr in the Trump administration. And it went on for a little over two years. They looked into possible sex trafficking, possible obstruction of justice, questions about improper lobbying.

[18:10:00]

The congressman always denied wrongdoing and he was not charged.

Again, that investigation was closed, but the House Ethics Committee is looking into similar issues. And if he was to go for a confirmation hearing, I mean, the subject matter is going to be a little tawdry. I reported on this for several years. We're talking about sex parties, drugs, at least one underage girl. I think that's why you really haven't heard his name in the conversation so far.

But just because you've been investigated, right, Hillary Clinton has also been criminally investigated but not charged. It doesn't mean you can't be attorney general, but he's not going to receive a very warm welcome from the career folks there. We've seen people today, our fellow reporters crying, hugging in the hallways. I've gotten text messages from sources, Trump administration, the Biden administration, no one is endorsing this.

BLITZER: What's your analysis, Elie?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is a crazy pick. This is a dangerous pick. I wish there was a gentler way to say it, but there's no mincing words. I was a prosecutor for a long time.

And let me be specific as to why. The two fundamental qualities that you need in an attorney general are, one, qualifications, and, two, independence. Okay, qualifications, Matt Gaetz has never worked a day in his life as a prosecutor. He has no idea what it means to stand in a court and say representing the United States. He has no idea what it means to indict someone and to potentially take their individual liberty away. He's only practiced law for a few years at the very local level. We've had A.G.s before. We've never been prosecutors, but they've all had serious positions in the Justice Department in non- prosecutorial roles. Matt Gaetz is completely unknown to this profession.

With respect to his independence, Matt Gaetz is a firebrand. Matt Gaetz is the Trumpiest Congressman on Capitol Hill. And that's not me talking. I pulled that word for word off of Matt Gaetz's Congressional bio about the congressman. He brags about that. He says he wears that as a badge of honor. He is there to weaponize. And, you know, I am not into these doomsday scenarios. I don't buy into them. But as somebody who spent a career at the Justice Department, this is of grave concern to me.

BLITZER: Yes. A lot of people are concerned.

David Chalian, you're our political director. What does it say that Trump decided to select Matt Gaetz to be the next attorney general?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think it is -- I think it says a lot about Donald Trump feeling pretty good after this election and with his victory and that he didn't hide the ball on this in any way on the campaign trail in terms of not the person, not the name, but the notion of what he wanted to do with the Justice Department, the kind of person he wanted to see as attorney general.

Donald Trump has no interest in an independent Justice Department. He's made that totally clear. That tradition does not interest him. He wants a Justice Department that will do his bidding, that will go after people that he feel wronged him. I mean, I'm just relaying what Donald Trump told voters day in and day out on the campaign trail.

And I think what we saw here was -- and listen, we don't know if Matt Gaetz is going to get confirmed. He obviously has problems inside the Republican Party, which, in the Senate, will control this process through the advice and consent role. But we do know that by Donald Trump putting his name forward, this is a marker. Donald Trump wants to have this fight. He wants to have it with his own party. He wants to stick it in the eye of any remnant of the establishment of norm of institutions. And that's what he's doing with this pick. And if Matt Gaetz is not the pick, this will have been a cloud of controversy through which whoever is the pick will have a much easier time getting fit.

HONIG: And, Wolf, I was critical of Trump's first A.G.s, of Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr. I wrote a book critical of Bill Barr a few years ago. But the thing is both of them had lines they wouldn't cross. Jeff Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation. Trump never forgave him for it, but it was the right move.

Bill Barr mostly operated as a defender of Trump. Most of the criticism of Bill Barr is that he manipulated things so he could protect Trump and Roger Stone and others. But what Bill Barr really would not do is use DOJ as an offensive weapon to go after people. And every indication, as David said, is that that's the strategy here.

REID: Yes. And there's no indication that the congressman, based on my reporting on him in the context of a criminal investigation, that he has any line. And he really does feel victimized by the Justice Department by the FBI. Trump also feels that way. They share that empathy. And, really, the only check on him if he becomes the nation's top law enforcement official will be the judiciary and juries.

BLITZER: All right. Guys, thank you very much, excellent analysis all around.

Just ahead, I get reaction to all the breaking news from the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes is standing by live.

Plus, we'll take a closer look at the man Donald Trump just tapped as his next defense secretary, the Fox News host, Pete Hegseth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

BLITZER: The shock of Congressman Matt Gaetz being tapped to become the next attorney general of the United States comes less than 24 hours after another truly stunning pick. That would be the president- elect's choice of Fox News Anchor Pete Hegseth to be defense secretary of the United States.

CNN's Oren Lieberman reports on Hegseth's background and the provocative views he would bring to the Pentagon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The next Secretary of Defense could reshape the entire military. Pete Hegseth, the 44-year-old Fox News host and Army veteran, emerged as a last second surprise, even to many in President elect Donald Trump's orbit.

In announcing the pick, Trump called him tough, smart, and a true believer in America first. On major policy issues facing the Pentagon, the Princeton and Harvard graduates view comes across as blunt and short on specifics. Take China.

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: They have a full spectrum long term view of not just regional but global domination and we are, we have our heads up our (BLEEP).

[18:20:02]

LIEBERMANN: And on Russia, Hegseth said he doesn't see President Vladimir Putin as a strategic threat to Europe.

HEGSETH: I think he's probably -- knows enough to know that it's probably not going much further than Ukraine.

LIEBERMANN: During his military career, Hegseth deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, receiving two bronze stars for his service. He also served at Guantanamo Bay and has defended the practice of waterboarding alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

A major in the Army National Guard, Hegseth, if confirmed, would go from mid-grade officer to running the agency he has railed against. Much of his commentary about the military has been an outright attack on its top leadership.

HEGSETH: They'll do any social justice, gender, climate, extremism crap, because it gets them checked to the next level and gets them closer to the political appointees who don't know anything about the military, really. LIEBERMANN: Hegseth has said a Trump administration should start by firing the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General C.Q. Brown, a frequent right wing target and only the second black man to be the head of the Joint Chiefs.

HEGSETH: Well, first of all, you got to fire -- you know, you got to fire the chairman of Joint Chiefs and you got to fire this -- I mean, obviously going to bring in a new secretary of defense.

LIEBERMANN: Hegseth has also derided DEI, critical race theory and wokeness. He claimed in June that one-third of the country's most senior officers are complicit in the politicization of the military.

HEGSETH: I would say over a third are actively complicit. And then you have a lot of grumblers who are sort of going along.

LIEBERMANN: Hegseth has even questioned women serving in combat roles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't like women in combat.

HEGSETH: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

HEGSETH: I love women service members who contribute amazingly, because everything about men and women serving together makes the situation more complicated and complication in combat means casualties or worse.

LIEBERMANN: In a 2016 interview, Hegseth also attacked Muslim immigrants who don't assimilate in language echoing the anti-immigrant rhetoric of the far right. On Secure Freedom Radio, he said we have to be willing to confront those who won't assimilate to the ideas of our country and show allegiance to them. Lest we find ourselves in a place where there's a silent invasion of groups of people who have a very different view of the future that looks nothing like America, nothing like freedom.

In 2019, Hegseth publicly pushed for service members accused of war crimes to be pardoned and praised President Trump when they were.

Hegseth's defense of Trump includes denying the 2020 election results and broadcasting those claims on the mall on January 6th before the riot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIEBERMANN (on camera): As a member of the National Guard, Hegseth's unit was assigned to protect and defend the inauguration of President Joe Biden back on January 20th, 2021. He says in his book, A War on Warriors, that he was removed from that assignment over what he says was concern over one of his tattoos, which he says was a religious cross. Wolf, we have reached out to the National Guard for comment on that.

BLITZER: Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon for us, Oren, thanks very, very much.

Our political experts are here with more on Trump's shock-inducing choices. We'll get to more on Pete Hegseth. That's coming up.

I want to start with the shockwaves developing from Matt Gaetz's nomination, if you will, to be the next attorney general of the United States.

Mondaire Jones, you're a former U.S. congressman, what do you think? What is your take on this pick, to pick your former colleague.

REP. MONDAIRE JONES (D-NY): Yes. Look, I served with Matt Gaetz on the House Judiciary Committee. He is not only unqualified for the role of Attorney General of the United States but my niece and nephew are each more qualified than he is because they know right from wrong, at least.

This is horrifying. I mean, we have now someone who could become the nation's top cop, the top law enforcement officer, who has been credibly accused of child -- of sex trafficking and who is actively under House Ethics Investigation, a committee I used to serve on when I was in the House. Being close to having tremendous authority, it's one of the most important positions, and I don't think the American people understood that's what they were voting for when they elected Donald Trump president.

BLITZER: Let me get Erin Perrine's thoughts on this as well. Go ahead, Erin.

ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, AXIOM STRATEGIES: I don't think we should underestimate what the American people understood they were getting when they elected Donald Trump again. They wanted a disruptor. They wanted someone who was going to absolutely upend the establishment in this country because the American people were screaming they were unhappy with the direction economically and socially in this nation.

Yes, this is a controversial pick. And here's the thing. We're already hearing some consternation from senators, Republicans included, about Gaetz's nomination. But he will go through the nomination process. There will be a hearing and there will be a floor vote. One thing to consider is he could lose three votes, and that would put the Senate at a tie, which means this would go to J.D. Vance in the end, if that were to be the final vote for him to become attorney general. That's a bit playing ahead on this, though.

BLITZER: But let me follow up with you, Erin, because, as you know, Gaetz is currently under investigation by the House Ethics Committee for sexual misconduct with a minor.

[18:25:00]

Do you think that's why people voted for Trump, to put someone like Gaetz in charge of the Justice Department?

PERRINE: I think people voted for Donald Trump because they're sick of the direction of this country. They're voting for Donald Trump because they're worried about the economy and their children and they want D.C. to be different. Trump can put up whoever he wants and the Senate does their job of advice and consent. The people elected Donald Trump to disrupt and upend this nation. This is a clear indication he promises to deliver on that.

BLITZER: You want to weigh in on that?

JONES: Yes, absolutely. Look I think the advice and consent function that the Senate has is extremely important. We've seen Susan Collins express consternation over this nomination. I so hope that all of the Republican senators there or enough of them anyway will show a backbone and stand up to this outrageous pick. You know, when you've got House Republicans who serve with Matt Gaetz also saying this is insane, that should give people the courage, I think, over in the upper chamber to make sure they do the right thing for the American people.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, Alex. Go ahead, make your point, then I got a question for you.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, just one thing I was going to add is what you are seeing is a Trump who's almost feeling politically invincible right now. He believes he has an incredible mandate. The one thing I will add. Is that there is a risk of overinterpreting his mandate, while it is significant, he only won this race by 250,000 votes across three states. And by picking people like Matt Gaetz, you know, and some of these more, you know, non- traditional picks, he does risk a backlash early.

BLITZER: Any question whether or not he will be confirmed by the Republican majority in the U.S. Senate?

THOMPSON: Absolutely. But the one thing about Donald Trump is, even by picking Matt Gaetz, he's already moved sort of like the, quote/unquote, Overton window further. Even if Matt Gaetz doesn't get confirmed, you could still see an ultra loyalist in this role that would be less controversial than Matt Gaetz. Donald Trump is an expert at picking -- you know, throwing out controversy and then retreating. This could just be that same tactic.

BLITZER: I want to play a clip for all of you for what one Republican congressman said today about his colleague, Matt Gaetz. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TROY NEHLS (R-TX): There's no question he's the leader of our party. So, now he's got a mission statement, his mission and his goals and objectives, whatever that is, we need to embrace it, all of it, every single word.

If Donald Trump says jump three feet high and scratch your head, we all jump three feet high and scratch our heads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) about Donald Trump. What do you think?

THOMPSON: It could have been a Cardinal in the Vatican. It just -- it feels like an overt reverence that is, to me, striking, and it speaks to just the hold he has on this party at this moment.

BLITZER: Do you think there will be enough Republican senators to break with the president and not confirm him?

JONES: I don't know. I mean, Markwayne Mullen previously just let Matt Gaetz have it in the press over any number of the allegations against him, which he really amplified, frankly, in that interview. And then today, I think he was interviewed as saying, well, you know, the incoming president gets to do what he wants to do because he's got this mandate.

So, look, there has to be a role for senators to play in stopping this madness. There are so many important obligations, responsibilities, and powers of the attorney general of the United States, and you can't have a guy who's trafficking in conspiracy theories that have been debunked. You can't have a guy who's been credibly accused of having broken the law on numerous occasions in a really significant, pernicious way. And you certainly can't have somebody who endorses white nationalist theories, like the white -- like white replacement theory, for example, and who has defended that kind of ideology in power like this.

BLITZER: Yes, but let's not forget that the president -- the incoming president of the United States himself is a convicted felon, as we all know.

I want to play something that Chris Murphy, the senator, said earlier about the possibility of a recess appointment. If the Senate is in recess, Trump has made it clear he wants the automatic confirmation of his nominees to go through without a formal vote if there's a recess appointment. Listen to this. This is Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): That would be the end of the United States Senate. If the Senate chose to end its power of advice and consent and just allow the president to choose without any input, confirmation process or approval, his cabinet, I don't know why we would continue to show up for work. That's not a democracy anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you think, Erin?

PERRINE: Recess appointments are a slippery slope, just like when Democrats nuked the filibuster on the nominations on the executive calendar in the United States Senate, once you start opening these gates. Now, granted what the Democrats did was they actually upended the Senate and eliminated part of the procedural protections for the government. They did that. This is actually already part of Senate procedure and rules for the recess appointment to happen.

[18:30:00]

Should this happen, this wouldn't be upending the Senate, this would be following the Senate rules and procedures that are already in place.

Now, they could go to the parliamentarian and try to do a tactic similar to blowing up the filibuster and nuking it to try and remove recess appointments, but I don't see that happening with a Republican majority. It is a slippery slope, though. I don't know that that will necessarily have to happen, but it is always an option and one that already exists in the Senate rules.

THOMPSON: One thing I would say, there might be some hyperbole with Senator Murphy's comments.

PERRINE: I hope so.

THOMPSON: But the fact is that Donald Trump is going to try to embark on the biggest expansion of executive authority that we've seen in decades, basically since pre-Watergate. Not only -- because this is not just a one-off. Recess appointments are part of the same thing he's doing with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy with upending the federal government. And you're going to see just an attack on the federal bureaucracy and just a dramatic expansion.

BLITZER: Trump said during the campaign, this is what he's going to do. So, we shouldn't necessarily be all that surprised.

PERRINE: Also, one thing about recess appointments is it's only through the end of the legislative term. So, it would not be for the totality of the Trump appointment. If there was ever a recess appointment that went through, it would not be for the totality of the term.

BLITZER: Our viewers are going to be learning a lot more about recess. Let's see what happens. Guys, thank you very, very much.

Coming up, Donald Trump's historic and at times awkward visit to the White House today, more on the president-elect's return to Washington. We'll have details right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

BLITZER: Let's get back to the breaking news, Donald Trump blindsiding Washington by picking firebrand Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz for attorney general of the United States.

I want to get some more reaction from the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy calls Trump's pick of Matt Gaetz for attorney general a red alert moment, his words, a red alert moment for our democracy. How do you see it?

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): I agree with Chris Murphy. Look, you know, there's a lot of attributes that the attorney general needs, equanimity, care, prudence, a deep respect for the rule of law. Matt Gaetz is the opposite of all of those things. And I know Matt Gaetz, and, by the way, his Republicans feel -- his Republican colleagues feel the same way that I do. He is a gonzo agent of chaos.

I remember when he led the attack on the offices of the Intelligence Committee, because he didn't like the fact that the Intelligence Committee was investigating Donald Trump. He actually burst in with a group of people violating all sorts of protocols that are designed to protect the national security information in the United States.

So, it's just -- you know, after an interesting day yesterday, you know, where they nominated Rubio and Mike Waltz and John Ratcliffe, all people I know well and have respect for, again, I wouldn't have made those nominations, to come out today with Matt Gaetz, you know, I'm listening to these Republicans say, oh, you know, the American people asked for disruption. That is a total failure of discernment, right? You know what else the president could do if he wanted disruption? He could stop guarding our nuclear weapons. He could tell air traffic control to have a few cocktails before they showed up for work.

You know, it is time particularly for the Senate to be discriminating and to say, do we have a constitutional role to act as act as a check or a balance? Sadly, I don't have a ton of confidence based on what I'm hearing from Republican senators who now seem to be wholly owned subsidiaries of Donald J. Trump.

BLITZER: CNN has learned that there are several Republican senators who say they were blindsided by the Gaetz pick. Do you think there is any chance at all that Senate Republicans will stand up probably with all of the Democratic senators to reject this nomination?

HIMES: Well, again, you already see the excuses being made. I mean, if ten years ago you'd said Matt Gaetz is going to be attorney general, we all would have laughed, right? But what almost all Republicans do around here today is to accommodate and to rationalize.

So, you played the clip of a Republican member of Congress saying, when Donald Trump tells us to jump, we ask how high. You know, we do one thing around here, which is to pledge to uphold the Constitution, which says that we are in opposition to the executive branch and to the president of the United States. So, you already see the excuses and the rationalizations being made.

Here's another way of thinking about it, though, Wolf. You know, I think that the president-elect, Donald Trump, has already pulled more people from the House of Representatives than the Republicans have as a majority. So, there's some possibility here that there will be a conversation between the speaker and Donald Trump, and maybe this Matt Gaetz nomination gets rescinded. Because I think, frankly, if they take Stefanik, if they take Mike Waltz, if they take Matt Gaetz, and there was one or two others, they're no longer in the majority. So, maybe I'm, you know, hanging on to false hopes there, but I think there's a couple of possible checks to this runaway train.

BLITZER: Congressman Jim Himes, thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate it very much.

Coming up, we have new details emerging on the private meeting over at the White House today between President Biden and President-elect Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: Now to the White House where President-elect Trump returned today to meet with President Biden a week after his decisive election victory.

CNN's Arlette Saenz takes us inside their face-to-face meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Mr. President-elect and former President Donald, congratulations.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Tonight, two former competitors face to face, setting the course for a presidential transition unlike any other in American history.

TRUMP: A transition that's so smooth, it'll be as smooth as it can get.

SAENZ: President-elect Trump returning to Washington and the White House for the first time since his election victory, meeting President Biden for nearly two hours in the Oval Office.

TRUMP: Politics is tough, and it's, in many cases, not a very nice world, but it is a nice world today, and I appreciate it very much.

SAENZ: The White House describing the sit-down, which included their chiefs of staff, as cordial and substantive.

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president-elect, again, was gracious, came with a detailed set of questions.

SAENZ: Trump telling the New York Post, they, quote, got to know each other again and spoke about Ukraine and the conflict in the Middle East. I wanted to know his views on where we are and what he thinks, Trump said, and he gave them to me.

The meeting restored a tradition last seen in 2016 when President Obama hosted the newly elected Trump at the White House.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We now are going to. Want to do everything we can to help you succeed, because if you succeed, then the country succeeds.

[18:45:02] SAENZ: Trump shunned the protocol in 2020. Four years ago today, he publicly mused about who would occupy the White House, despite Biden winning the race.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whatever happens in the future, who knows which administration it will be -- I guess time will tell.

SAENZ: Trump ultimately refused to concede, watched as his supporters stormed the Capitol on January 6th and skipped Biden swearing in. Today's meeting, a full circle moment for the two men who fiercely brawled in the 2024 race.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Most importantly -- and I mean this from the bottom of heart, Trump is a threat to this nation.

TRUMP: He's a low IQ individual. Take his IQ, I guarantee you, it's in the low 50s or 60s.

SAENZ: With a historic handshake, Biden promising a peaceful transfer of power to his predecessor and now successor.

BIDEN: Looking forward to having a, like we said, smooth transition, do everything we can to make sure you're accommodated what you need, and we're going to get a chance to talk about some out today.

TRUMP: Good.

BIDEN: Welcome. Welcome back.

TRUMP: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ (on camera): Now, there is one Trump who bucked tradition today, and that is former First Lady Melania Trump. First Lady Jill Biden had extended an invitation for her to visit the White House the same day as President-elect Trump, but ultimately, Melania Trump decided not to travel to the White House. Sources said that there was a previous scheduling conflict due to her book.

But sources have also told CNN that it is unexpected that she would move into the White House fulltime time as first lady this second go around really highlighting the unconventional and potentially autonomous approach that she takes in this role of first lady.

Now, First Lady Jill Biden was on hand to greet President-elect Trump today and he handed her him a handwritten note for Melania Trump, saying that she stands ready to help with the transition in any way.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Very nice.

All right. Arlette Saenz, reporting for us -- Arlette, thanks very much.

Coming up, we'll get more reaction to some of the very controversial cabinet pics by Donald Trump and what they say about the incoming Trump administration.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:17]

BLITZER: Donald Trump is shaking up the nation's capital tonight, stacking his incoming administration with firebrands and loyalists, stunning even some of his Republican allies.

Let's get some analysis right now from Susan Glasser. She's a staff writer over at "The New Yorker".

Susan, thanks for joining us.

What are Trump's picks and has pushed to try to bypass Senate vetting tell you about he'll wield power in his second term? And how does that fit into what's called the strongman playbook?

SUSAN GLASSER, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: Well, Wolf, I think if anyone had any questions about which Donald Trump is showing up in this second term, he's determined very quickly to come out and answer them. You know, this is a maximally confrontational Trump. It's a Trump who clearly feels confident that his own party is willing to go along with almost anything that he might propose.

It's hard to see these appointments in any other context other than that the Senate Republican conference that you and I know and covered of even five or 10 years ago, it would have been unthinkable to propose Matt Gaetz for attorney general, Tulsi Gabbard for director of national intelligence, a Fox News weekend host for defense secretary, these are literally unthinkable appointments.

And yet I think Trump is trying to send a message here. He must be very confident indeed that those Republicans in the Senate whose job it is to confirm these appointees that they are -- might grumble, but that they're going to go ahead and do so.

BLITZER: On Tulsi Gabbard, the former congresswoman who's being nominated to become the director of national intelligence, critics call her and you know this, a pro-Russian sympathizer. One saying and I'm quoting now, Putin has effectively seized control of our nation's intelligence without firing a shot, close quote.

Is the Kremlin celebrating this?

GLASSER: It's hard not to imagine that they aren't. To be clear, it's not just Tulsi Gabbard. She's the most extreme, and it's not even that critics call her this. I mean, I think if you look at Tulsi Gabbard's own words, what you see is someone who has consistently sided with Russia and actually blamed the United States for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, literally parroting the Kremlin's talking points about why they launched this brutal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

So it's a pretty extraordinary thing. It's not coming from anyone's mouth except for Tulsi Gabbard's, first of all. Second of all, it's very consistent with the appointments we've seen so far, I think by President Trump, that he doesn't want to have a debate inside his administration about U.S. support for Ukraine. That debate seems to be over. That's how I interpret his announcement on the front end that he wouldn't be appointing either Mike Pompeo or Nikki Haley to his cabinet.

Remember, Pompeo didn't run against Donald Trump. What did he do? He's been a consistent supporter an outspoken supporter of Ukraine, as has Nikki Haley. Instead, he's brought in people, even Marco Rubio who used to be more supportive of Ukraine, who voted against any military assistance earlier this year.

And I think that's the through line here. Ukraine is in big trouble with the Trump administration.

BLITZER: Yeah, it certainly is.

Susan Glasser, thank you very, very much.

We'll have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:58:59]

BLITZER: Tonight, we're learning new about new steps the special counsel Jack Smith is taking as he winds down his work against Trump.

I want to bring in CNN's Katelyn Polantz. She's here with me in THE SITUATION ROOM.

So what's the latest? What are we learning?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Wolf, all this blessed her from Donald Trump about firing Jack Smith doesn't look like it's going to happen. Jack Smith, the special counsel, he's going to be exiting stage left according to a Justice Department official. The special counsel's office will be closing, winding down its work, sending a report on its charging decisions against Donald Trump to the Justice Department leadership Merrick Garland could be released.

But then there's more, too. There are two cases in court and they both now as of just about an hour ago, the Justice Department has them both -- they want to pause them both because they want to decide what to do next they're going to give an update to the courts in December, but there is a big question what to do with these two situations, the January 6 case in D.C., which a sitting president can't be prosecuted, and then an appeal defending the Justice Department's ability to have a special counsel's office in an appeals court over the Florida courts.

What do they do with those cases?

BLITZER: Federal cases against Trump, we'll see what happens. A lot at stake right now for the incoming president of the United States. Katelyn Polantz, thanks very much for joining us.

And to our viewers, thanks for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.