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Trump Picks RFK Jr. for Health and Human Services Secretary; Trump Taps His Attorney Todd Blanche for Deputy A.G.; House Ethics Committee Meets Friday Amid Pressure to Release Gaetz Report. Trump Taps His Attorney Todd Blanche For FBI Arrests Man Who Allegedly Wanted To Commit 9/11-Style Attack. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, President- elect Trump chooses Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be his Health and Human Services Secretary. Tonight, public health officials are sounding the alarm over RFK Jr.'s anti vaccine activism and other very provocative views after Trump vowed to let him, quote, go wild on health policy.

Also breaking, pressure is building right now for the House of Representatives to release its ethics report on Matt Gaetz as the now former congressman faces a very tough confirmation fight to be Trump's attorney general. The Ethics Committee set to meet tomorrow as the fallout over Gaetz picks up very, very dramatically.

Plus, new reporting that Trump's close ally, Elon Musk, met with Iran's ambassador to the United Nations about diffusing tensions in the next administration. We'll discuss this breaking story as Musk's influence is escalating dramatically.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

And we begin this hour with the breaking news, President-elect Trump causing a firestorm for a third straight night by announcing a norm- defying cabinet pick. Tonight, it's Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a member of the Democratic political dynasty, turned Trump loyalist, tapped to lead Health and Human Services.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, Florida, near Mar-a-Lago for us. Kristen, what more can you tell us about this pick that Trump announced just a short while ago?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, one of the most interesting things about choosing RFK Jr. is Donald Trump is following through on something that he said he would do, which was essentially give RFK a big role in the administration and have him oversee health.

Now, one thing to make clear, there was a lot of speculation that RFK would not be given an actual formal cabinet role because this role would have to be approved by Congress. And there's a lot of controversy around RFK, particularly when it comes to some of his different stances on health. One of them being that he has said that vaccines cause autism, something that there are no studies that say that is definitively true. And it needs to be said that there was a lot of speculation that because he couldn't get through Congress, he'd be given more of like an oversight role, some kind of umbrella role where he would look -- manage the health -- manage the various health departments, but not actually be in of HHS.

Now, when I talk to his advisors, they say that they understand that he might not get confirmed, but that they're putting it all out there, because Donald Trump feels emboldened, given the fact that he won the popular vote, to follow through on a mandate, to follow through with what he said he was going to do on the campaign trail.

RFK Jr. was a big part of Donald Trump's campaign. He was with him, by his side, after he dropped out, after he endorsed Trump, really, the last week of the campaign, they really believed that he helped Donald Trump with a number of different groups, including suburban women, including independent voters that were critical to Donald Trump's win.

So, Donald Trump putting it out there, we'll see what happens when it actually goes through the process.

BLITZER: And, Kristen, I understand you have news about Trump's pick, who he wants to be the deputy attorney general of the United States.

HOLMES: Yes, but he has just announced that his attorney, Todd Blanche, is going to be deputy attorney general of the United States. Our Kaitlan Collins reported last night that Blanche was under consideration.

Now, I'm told that this is actually a very important pick to pay attention to. The reason being that this is the pick that's going to actually run the day to day at the Department of Justice. It's not going to be the bomb throwing Matt Gaetz. Matt Gaetz, instead, is going to be more of the effective communicator.

Again, this is coming from senior advisers to the former president, now president-elect, who say that it's going to be Todd Blanche who's actually running the ins and outs of the Department of Justice. And this is part of the reason that Donald Trump wanted Matt Gaetz. He wanted someone who was going to go out there on T.V., who was going to go out to the microphones, and essentially spit fire. That's not necessarily who they wanted in charge of the day-to-day, ins and outs of executing for the Department of Justice.

[18:05:02]

Now, we have learned that that will be his private attorney, Todd Blanche,

BLITZER: Kristen Holmes down in West Palm Beach, Florida, thank you very much.

Let's take a closer look right now at why Trump's choice of Robert Kennedy Jr. is so very, very controversial. CNN's Brian Todd reports on his history of outrageous statements and provocative views. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I'm going to let him go wild on health. I'm going to let him go wild on the food. I'm going to let him go wild on medicines.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The person Donald Trump's going to let go wild, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., is the 70-year-old son of Democratic icon Robert Kennedy and has become known mostly for espousing outlandish false conspiracy theories about the COVID virus.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., FORMER INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.

TODD: And he's repeatedly, baselessly called the COVID-19 vaccines unsafe.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There could be widespread disinformation to the public about what they should or shouldn't be doing in terms of their public health.

TODD: The co-chair of Trump's transition team told CNN's Kaitlan Collins this about what Kennedy might try to do with the COVID vaccines that are in place now. which have been proven to be mostly safe.

HOWARD LUTNICK, CO-CHAIR, TRUMP-VANCE TRANSITION TEAM: He says, if you give me the data, all I want is the data, and I'll take on the data and show that it's not safe. And that if you pull the product liability, the companies will yank these vaccines right off of the market.

TODD: In May of this year, it was revealed that Kennedy once claimed in a deposition that a parasitic worm had once entered his brain and died, which he said led to, quote, severe brain fog and trouble with his short-term memory. He actually joked about it.

KENNEDY: Maybe a brain worm ate that part of my memory.

TODD: Earlier this year, in a rambling video posted on X, Kennedy admitted that about ten years ago, he was driving in Upstate New York when he found the carcass of a dead bear that had been hit by a vehicle.

KENNEDY: So, I pulled over and I picked up the bear and put him in the back of my van because I was going to skin the bear.

TODD: But Kennedy said he got sidetracked by several events that day, couldn't go home, didn't know what to do with the bear. So, he decided to leave the carcass in New York's Central Park and make it look like a bike accident.

KENNEDY: So, we went and did that and we thought it would be amusing for whoever found it or something. PROF. LARRY SABATO, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: The whole thing. story, the wild, weird story that RFK. Jr. told about the bear cub and how it got into Central Park has really made an impact and not a positive one for him.

TODD: This summer, an article in Vanity Fair had a photo of Kennedy appearing to pantomime eating a dog carcass. Kennedy denied it was a dog.

KENNEDY: It's actually me eating a goat in Patagonia.

TODD: That same Vanity Fair article published allegations that Kennedy had sexually assaulted a former nanny for his family. Kennedy sidestepped the accusations.

KENNEDY: I am not a church boy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): Robert Kennedy Jr. has already floated ideas for major turnover at public health agencies. In one recent interview, he said he would cut employees at nutrition departments inside the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. And at a recent conference, he proposed replacing about 600 officials at the National Institutes of Health with handpicked staff. Wolf?

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting, Brian, thanks for that report.

Let's discuss what's going on. Joining me now, the chief medical correspondent for CNN, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, thanks so much for joining us. What medical misconceptions, false claims has RFK Jr. promoted that caused so much concern?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think a lot of it does have to do with what Brian was talking about in vaccines specifically. He's talked in the past about COVID specifically being bioengineered to attack certain demographics of populations. But when it comes to vaccines and his, you know, continuously talking about the connection between vaccines and autism, for example. I think that's what probably gets the most attention.

He's sometimes tough to pin down, Wolf, because he'll say one thing at one time and then say something else or say that he didn't say that. He has said in the past that there is no vaccines at all that are safe and effective. And then he said, there are some that are probably a good idea. So, it's a little bit challenging, but I think it really revolves around infectious diseases primarily, Wolf.

BLITZER: What else, Sanjay, have members of the medical and public health community around the country said about the potential of RFK Jr. taking a larger role in the Trump administration?

GUPTA: You know, there's a lot of concern, Wolf. Even over the last hour or so, I've been getting a lot of notes from people. I mean, I think it's fair to say that the medical community is not monolithic. There's disparate voices here, but they're pretty much in lockstep about the concerns with regard to some of these public health issues and RFK.

[18:10:05]

I think those are the -- that's sort of the big thing. But on the other hand, you know, there's kernels of truth in what he says when he talks about some of the real challenges in our overall medical system. We spend $4.5 trillion on health care in the United States and we don't have very good results to show for that, some of the worst results, frankly, in the developed world. 70 percent of chronic disease is preventable, according to some studies, and a lot of that has to do with how we nourish ourselves, the food and the types of food in the toxins in the food and things like that. So, you know, there's, I think, a fair amount of support. I mean, he's not the first person to talk about these issues, but there's no question that not a lot has been done about that.

So, I think on one hand, you have concerns over his comments on vaccines and the possibility of illnesses reemerging because of that. Mandy Cohen, who is the CDC director, was asked specifically about this and listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MANDY COHEN, CDC DIRECTOR: We have a very short memory of what it is like to hold a child who has been paralyzed with polio or to comfort a mom who's lost her kid from measles. And it's not that many generations ago.

And I don't want to have to see us go backwards in order to remind ourselves that vaccines work like we -- they work, they protect our kids, they're our best defense against these terrible illnesses,

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: These childhood vaccines, Wolf, is what Mandy Cohen is saying, has a lot of real world data in terms of the benefits they provide, and sometimes people forget that because we haven't seen many of these diseases for a long time now.

BLITZER: A good point, indeed. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much for that report.

An important note to our viewers right now, be sure to watch Sanjay's a documentary report, Is Ozempic Right for You, this Sunday night, 8:00 P.M. Eastern, right here on CNN. I'll be watching.

And just ahead, the latest on the House Ethics Committee probe of Matt Gaetz and the allegation he had sex with a 17-year-old. The investigation adding to the fallout over Trump's choice of Gaetz to be the next Attorney General of the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

BLITZER: There's more breaking news we're following this hour. The House Ethics Committee is now set to meet tomorrow as pressure is clearly building for the panel to release the report on its investigation of Matt Gaetz, President-elect Trump's pick for attorney general of the United States. The probe, one of many reasons the choice of Gaetz is facing enormous fallout on Capitol Hill.

CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is joining us right now. Manu, what are lawmakers on the Hill saying about Matt Gaetz?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Democrats are demanding the release of information from that bipartisan ethics investigation, even as the House Ethics Committee plans to meet tomorrow to discuss how to handle this long anticipated report. And some Republicans, including Senator John Thune -- John Cornyn, who is a senior member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told me earlier today that he also would like to see that report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I think there should not be any limitation on the Senate Judiciary Committee's investigation, including whatever the House Ethics Committee has generated.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I barely know Gaetz. All I know is he likes picking fights on social media.

But at the end of the day, you got to have the votes and you better have the resume. That's how this process works.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But it's still an open question, Wolf, about whether or not he can actually get the majority of the Senate to confirm his nomination, because there are more than three Republicans right now who have concerns or could potentially vote against his nomination, which is why there's still a big, major question in the Senate, whether Gaetz ultimately gets the job, Wolf.

BLITZER: And RFK Jr., Manu, as you know, would need Senate confirmation as well to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. How are Republican lawmakers responding to this very controversial pick?

RAJU: Well, just moments ago, Wolf, the incoming Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, was asked about this nomination. He declined to comment about whether he could support this nomination. This comes as some Republicans, allies of Donald Trump, are warning Senate Republicans not to scuttle this nomination and that there could be backlash if they do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And what if Senate Republicans don't confirm him?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Well, then they have to deal with Donald Trump, and they'll have to deal with Elon Musk and his great new pack, and the American people. This is a mandate. RAJU: Yes, I wonder, do you have any concerns about -- he's a big vaccine skeptic, all vaccines, and fluoride in water and the like.

REP. DAN NEWHOUSE (R-WA): Well, like I said, those things will come out and we'll see where he stands in the Senate. If I were in the Senate, I would have some big questions about that.

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): I have great concerns for someone who has shown complete disregard for public health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But, Wolf, this afternoon as Senators were leaving town for the weekend. So, next week, a lot of them will be confronted with these questions, and we'll see how they ultimately respond, and will there be support for RFK Jr.'s nomination, Wolf.

BLITZER: We shall see. All right, Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.

Joining us now, Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to start with Trump's selection of RFK Jr. to head the Department of Health and Human Services. As you know, Kennedy is a conspiracy theorist and someone who has made very wildly inaccurate claims about vaccines. Do you support his selection for this key public health post?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): You know, politics makes strange bedfellows, Wolf. And Governor Jared Polis, a Democrat from Colorado, just came out in support of RFK Jr.'s nomination as Health and Human Services secretary.

[18:20:01]

Obviously, there are things where I disagree with RFK Jr. He, was at one point, a constituent of mine living in Westchester County. You know, I've disagreed with him on issues, like shutting down Indian Point nuclear power plant, for instance.

But, look, the president, you know, won an election last week and he has the right to nominate who he sees fit to serve in his administration. I think it was very clear that RFK Jr. was going to play a role in the administration and the American people supported Donald Trump. And so there will be a confirmation process, and the Senate will be able to review all of RFK Jr.'s positions, including with respect to vaccinations. And I'm sure they will have a robust discussion and confirmation process.

Ultimately, I think RFK Jr. obviously has raised significant issues on things like chronic illness, like obesity in America. And these are issues that we do need to tackle from a federal level, working with our partners in state government. And so, obviously, these are issues that will all be discussed in full in a confirmation process. BLITZER: I also want to turn, Congressman, to Matt Gaetz, someone you've been critical of in the past, calling him a clown and a charlatan. But now that he is President-elect Trump's pick to become the next attorney general of the United States, do you want him to be confirmed?

LAWLER: I think my statements on Matt Gaetz have been rather robust and public and very clear. I obviously am not supportive of Matt Gaetz in any way, but the president has the right to, again, nominate and go through that process. And I think, obviously, senators have already started raising questions about his record, including, obviously, the investigations that have been underway in the House Ethics Committee. And I do believe they should certainly have access to that information as part of the confirmation process.

That is -- you know, ultimately, again, Donald Trump has the right to nominate who he sees fit to serve in his administration. And the Senate will go through the confirmation process obviously given what we have seen under the Department of Justice, under the Biden administration, and some of the lawfare and weaponization. It's imperative that an individual leading the department have the highest ethical standard and I'm sure the confirmation process will ensure that the person confirmed to the office of attorney general does in fact have high ethical standards.

BLITZER: This is what the former House speaker, Kevin McCarthy, said about Gaetz's chances of being confirmed earlier today. Watch and listen to this, Congressman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Look, Gaetz won't get confirmed, everybody knows that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You say Gaetz will not be confirmed. Why bother with the nomination then?

MCCARTHY: You can talk to the president, but it's a good deflection from others, but it also gives -- I'll let it stand at that.

But Gaetz couldn't win in a Republican conference, so it doesn't matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Even if he isn't confirmed, Congressman, why pick someone accused of paying for sex with a minor to be the nation's top law enforcement officer?

LAWLER: Look, I'll defer to President Trump as to why he nominated Matt Gaetz. But, you know, again, my comments on Matt Gaetz have been pretty clear and I stand by them.

Ultimately, though, the Senate will go through that process. And as I said, I think the information that has been gathered as part of the House Ethics Committee, with respect to those allegations, should be available to the Senate for their review.

BLITZER: Congressman Mike Lawler of New York, thanks very much for joining us and congratulations, by the way, on your election victory the other day. I appreciate it very, very much.

LAWLER: Thanks.

BLITZER: And still ahead, our political experts weigh in on RFK Jr. and the other Trump picks who have left Washington shell shocked right now. Is he daring his fellow Republicans to defy him? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

BLITZER: Breaking News, two more administration picks from Donald Trump. The President-elect picking former Congressman Doug Collins to lead the Department of Veterans Affairs and John Sauer to be the next solicitor general of the United States, this as we get more reaction now to President-elect Trump by choosing Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be his secretary of Health and Human Services.

Our political experts are here with me in the situation and we'll get their take. Gloria, let me start with you. RFK Jr., a vaccine skeptic, a conspiracy theorist, with no real medical or public health experience, Trump's pick to lead the nation as far as health is concerned. What are your thoughts?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think Donald Trump said during the campaign that he wanted Kennedy to go wild on health, and that's exactly what's going to happen. This is yet another declaration of war on the deep state. You know, Kennedy, if confirmed, and that's really questionable, but the question is, if he's confirmed, he would lead an agency he's been highly skeptical of, and has said that people at the FDA ought to be fired and has promoted a list of things he thinks they've done wrong.

Obviously, he's a vaccine skeptic. He said some pretty outrageous things about COVID, that it was targeted against Caucasians and black people.

[18:30:05]

And I think as you hear from Manu Raju and other people on the Hill, there are a lot of Republicans who are going to be raising questions about this.

Now, Donald Trump has a majority in the Senate. We know that, but maybe he'll be a recess appointment and you can get them through without any vetting. And I think that's going to be another issue for Kennedy is the vetting process.

BLITZER: It certainly will be. You know, Lance, I want to play for you and get your thoughts some of the very controversial things that RFK Jr. has said. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: I do believe that autism does come from vaccines.

There's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective.

COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.

Maybe a brain worm ate that part of my memory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, you think this decision potentially could put American lives in jeopardy?

LANCE TROVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Is this an unconventional pick? Yes. Gloria hit the nail on the head. He's going after the deep state. But this is -- Donald Trump's mantra is promises made, promises kept. He said, Kristen Holmes reported it earlier that RFK was going to have a big say in healthcare in this country, and that's what's happened. Elections have consequences.

And so -- but I would argue that this outrage machine that comes out of Washington with every single decision that Donald Trump makes and every single appointment that he makes has a means of empowering his voters. It feeds into his voters. It feeds him. But I think it also, for the 75-plus million people who voted for him, it says, yes, I made the right decision because guess what, Washington isn't working for me right now.

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: I will add into that a word that's been thrown out a lot in the last couple days is mandate, people saying that Donald Trump has a mandate. He won the popular vote. He won the election. So, therefore, he should get to pick and choose whoever he wants in his cabinet. And to some extent, yes, he has every right to nominate who he wants, but it is also the constitutional duty of the Senate when unqualified and extreme picks are put forth to knock those down.

And, look, someone like a Matt Gaetz for attorney general, someone who's been accused of having sex with a minor and was investigated by the Department of Justice, the department that he would then be leading for sex trafficking, that is someone that should immediately not even be considered.

And someone like RFK Jr., I think, deserves some scrutiny. Yes, there are some things that he has talked about that I would agree with but then there are others like being an anti vaxxer, should we put him in charge of this?

So, I think that there needs to be appropriate vetting of these folks. And so I've seen a lot of Republican elected officials on Capitol Hill saying well Donald Trump, you know, he should get deference and we should with what he wants. And I would remind those senators that it's their constitutional duty to advise and consent. And so, yes, he has a mandate but that doesn't that he gets free reign?

BLITZER: What do you, Ashley?

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: No, I absolutely agree with it and that he doesn't get free reign. And it's clear right now based on the people that he's put forward over the last two days, why he wants to do recess appointments. These are very dangerous people that are sounding alarms on both sides of the political aisle.

And we have an obligation, and I hear what you're saying about Washington being frantic, but we have an obligation to educate the American people on what's really at play right now, what Donald Trump gets with these big picks. I've worked and I've served two presidents now. Let me tell you, those three departments are the center of power in government. And Donald Trump will have the head of each one of those three enablers that will not only exact his political revenge but gut out the agencies for the deep state, right?

In addition to that, DOJ will no longer be independent. He can utilize it at his own will, as a weapon to go after public, private citizens, as well as companies. The third is he would have someone over the intel agency who actually is a Putin sympathizer, pals around with dictators and terrorists.

That should be of concern to the American people. That's why you have both Republicans and Democrats arguing this point that the Senate has an obligation to vet these people and the American people need to know what's in their background.

BORGER: Trump knows that he's causing a meltdown, right? He wanted to do that. This is part of his purpose. He's sort of shock and awe, right? He wants to do this.

ETIENNE: It's his brand.

BORGER: But this is a loyalty test. Above all else, for Republican members of the Senate, many of whom don't like these picks privately and they're going to have to decide what they do about it publicly, unless he makes them all recess appointments. And Donald Trump will look at them if they decide to go against his nominees and there will be retribution. I mean, you know, that's the way Donald Trump operates.

TROVER: Let's be honest. 95 percent of the Republican Party stands with Donald Trump, so senators should take that to account.

[18:35:00]

BORGER: Right, but on everything? The question is on all of these appointments, Matt Gaetz?

TROVER: Yes, that's up for each senator to decide. But we certainly can agree that voters out there have questions about this Justice Department and how it has conducted itself over the last four years. I mean, let's remember what -- ETIENNE: All right. But that's one ahead of it who's actually been investigated by the department.

TROVER: I'll get to that. Let just remind, we had a former president's home raided when the sitting president -- over documents, when the sitting president, whose Justice Department effected that raid, had a treasure trove of his own documents sitting in his house and nothing happened to him. I'm just saying, you can see how voters look at this and think we have a two-tiered system of justice.

Now, is Matt Gaetz the right person to do that? I'm not here to say that. That's up to the Senate to decide. That's what we all agree with.

MATTHEWS: Realistically, I don't think Matt Gaetz is going to get through. If we're looking historically, I don't think that the Senate GOP is going to be saying no to a bunch of these nominees. I think that they're going to use their political capital to maybe say no to one, potentially two of them. So, I was going to say -- yes. So, I think that, yes, he might be the sacrificial lamb. I don't think that he's, A, unqualified, but, B, I think there are enough senators who also just dislike him and don't want to see him in this role. But I do think that some of these other ones who are questionable, like a Tulsi Gabbard, ODNI, or like RFK Jr., HHS, will probably squeak through.

And remember that all of them could get through if they're recess appointments. There won't be a real vote in the Senate --

BORGER: And there won't be vetting. There won't be real vetting. And that is --

BLITZER: It's a complicated process, but it's one way that all these controversial nominees potentially could become the next (INAUDIBLE).

ETIENNE: Absolutely. And The Wall Street Journal, for whatever it's worth, said today that it's anti-constitutional for them to move forward with the recess appointments. So, welcome to Donald Trump's America.

BLITZER: But I assume they will do that. All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

Just ahead, I get reaction to Donald Trump's selection of RFK Jr. to become the Health and Human Services secretary from a former Biden administration health official. Dr. Ashish Jha is standing by live. We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: Let's get back to our top story, another very provocative cabinet pick for the incoming Trump administration, the president- elect tapping the anti-vaccine activist, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., to serve as Health and Human Services secretary. For more on that, I want to bring in Dr. Ashish Jha. He's the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health and a former Biden White House COVID coordinator. Dr. Jha, thanks so much for joining us.

As you know, Trump has chosen this vaccine skeptic with no real medical or public health credentials to lead the nation's health policy. What's your reaction?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, well, first of all, thanks for having me back. I think this is an extraordinarily bad choice and it's not because of his lack of experience. A lot of HHS secretaries have not had health experience.

Look, there is a reason why this nomination really puts the health of the American people at risk. Obviously, we know about his vaccine views, but the HHS secretary oversees Medicare, will determine what is covered and not through the program for seniors, that all seniors live under it. It oversees Medicaid that covers nearly half the kids in America. So, this is a very big job.

And the way that previous secretaries have managed it in the Trump administration, Biden administration, others, is to let the scientists in those agencies make those determinations. RFK Jr. has given us all the signals that he does not plan to do that. He does not plan to lean on evidence and rigorous analysis to make decisions, but instead use his own ideas, which sound good on a bumper sticker, but really are not the policies we need in this country.

BLITZER: And it's interesting on that point, RFK Jr. just released a statement saying this, and I'll put it up on the screen quoting him now. Together, we will clean up corruption, stop the revolving door between industry and government, and return our health agencies to their rich tradition of gold standard, evidence-based science. What's your response to that statement?

JHA: Now, look, obviously, again, on a bumper sticker, that's exactly right. That is exactly what we want. We want to be gold standard evidence-based science. The problem is that most of the ideas he has been eschewing or espousing, not all of them, but most of them, fail that test. His ideas on vaccines, certainly the way he talks about raw milk, the way he's talked about fluoride, but just a whole host of things that somehow this virus, SARS COV2, was created to spare Jewish people, like just really off the wall ideas that are not based on evidence-based science.

And so I don't have a lot of faith that he will carry out that idea. If he did, that would be terrific. We'd all love to see it.

BLITZER: Many Americans, though, are drawn to RFK Jr. because they're concerned about the country's health and food standards, as you know. What is the line between necessary reform and extreme views?

JHA: Look, I think all of us agree that we have to have reforms in this. I mean, people bring up, to me, something that RFK Jr. talks a lot about, which is processed foods. We have too many processed foods in our country, no question about it. And it has definitely been one of the reasons we've seen the obesity epidemic.

I would love to see concrete policy ideas on how we're going to reform those things. General vagueness like we're going to clean up corruption doesn't move the ball forward. He's talked about additives. My question is, how are you going to determine which additives are safe? Which ones are not? You need to use a scientific, rigorous process.

If he's willing to do those things, I think we should all be open to hearing those ideas out. So far, his track record suggests that he's not going to use rigorous analysis to make these decisions. And that's what puts people's lives at risk.

BLITZER: Dr. Ashish Jha, good to have you back in The Situation Room.

[18:45:00]

Thank you very, very much.

Coming up, why tech billionaire Elon Musk reportedly met with a key Iranian official this week.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There's more breaking news coming into THE SITUATION ROOM right now.

We're following all of these developments. Donald Trump just announced little while ago another unconventional pick to a key post. Todd Blanche, Trump's attorney during his New York hush money trial, has just been tamped as the deputy attorney general of the United States, the number two position there.

Let's discuss this and more with conservative attorney George Conway was here with me in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Blanche, as you know, he failed to prevent Trump from being convicted of, what, 34 felonies in that New York trial. So what do you make of this pick of Blanche to be the number two person at the Justice Department?

GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER: I can't really get upset about it.

[18:50:01]

I -- you know, I think it smacks of cronyism and ordinarily, I would be critical of that and critical of -- I think there was a -- I heard there was an appointment of Bove and Sauer also potentially, his other lawyers.

I can't get that upset about it because Blanche is -- he's a reasonably good, he's a workmanlike lawyer. I don't think he did -- he did some things in court that I didn't think were all that great, but he's not -- not a terrible lawyer. He's a functioning criminal defense lawyer, unlike Gaetz.

I mean, these three other cabinet level positions that Trump has filled in the last few -- those are worth -- that's what's worth losing sleep over.

BLITZER: I want to get to that, let's -- let's talk a little bit about the selection of a fierce Trump ally Matt Gaetz to become the next attorney general of the United States. What concerns do you have about him wielding the power and, you know, it's enormous, the power of the U.S. Justice Department.

CONWAY: Well, first of all, he's a bad guy and he's completely unqualified for the job. His only qualification to be attorney general of the United States has only experienced with the criminal justice system and frankly he never is only experienced with the legal business frankly because they only practiced law at a small law firm in Florida for a year is his investigation for sex trafficking.

And you know, that's not in my mind -- to my mind a good qualification, maybe the perfect qualification for Donald Trump who's an adjudicated sex offender, but it's not good for the rest of us. It makes absolutely no sense.

BLITZER: You call the selections of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Matt Gates, Tulsi Gabbard, potentially in your words the worst in American history.

Do you think Republicans will defy him on any of these controversial picks?

CONWAY: I -- I can't say that with confidence. I can -- I can't I wouldn't bet that all three of them would go through. But I don't think you can lose money betting on the spinelessness of Republican senators.

BLITZER: What do you think of the argument that some are making that Trump won the election, including the popular vote, the Electoral College vote and has a mandate for the American people to make these sorts of picks?

CONWAY: Well, I mean, mandate. What is a mandate when he he's going to end up having won by one of the smallest margins of any president in recent years. He doesn't have a mandate to engage in the sort of destructive behavior that he has engaged in the last 24 hours with these three picks.

And let me -- let me dilate on that a little bit. These three picks are truly as bad as you could imagine. If you were actively trying to do harm to the country, to destroy the country these are the kinds of people if not the people you would pick.

And I'm going to say something here just to you know we're only n days into this we got four more years to go potentially here, I've spent the last years talking about Donald Trump's psychological makeup, that he is a narcissistic sociopath a malignant narcissist and that those characters, and you've heard me say this multiple times are inherently destructive. And I've talked to a lot -- I've written a lot about it. I've talked to a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists over the years.

There's one additional thing about this kind of character and I learned this from a very prominent, Harvard trained psychiatrist here in D.C. five years ago, People like Trump, malignant narcissists, actually do subconsciously or consciously seek to destroy. And one of the things about people like Trump and a lot of humans generally is they like to accuse people of what they themselves are trying to do.

You've heard it said about Trump many times every accusation is a confession. Well, that's what's going on here. Deep down, he's a destructive force. Deep down, he wants to destroy.

And mark my words: it's only going to get worse.

BLITZER: We shall see.

All right. George Conway as usual, thank you very, very much for coming in, conservative lawyer.

Coming up, the FBI announces the arrest of a man who allegedly wanted to carry out a 9/11-style attack. What we're learning about the plot. We'll have details when we come back.

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[18:58:51]

BLITZER: More breaking news, according to "The New York Times", tech billionaire and Trump adviser Elon Musk held a meeting with the Iranian ambassador to the United Nations at a secret location this week. Iranian sources tell "The Times" the meeting was aimed at trying to lower tensions as President-elect Trump prepares to take office.

Other news we're following right now, the FBI has just announced the arrest of a Houston man who allegedly wanted to commit a 9/11-style attack here in the United States.

CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell is gathering details for us.

What are you learning, Josh?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Wolf, this was a dramatic arrest as the FBI tried to take Anas Said into custody he allegedly tried to smash ash his cell phone into the ground, presumably to try to destroy evidence. He was tackled, taken into custody. He was previously known to law enforcement for social media posts, but authorities say that after the October 7th terrorist attack in Israel by Hamas, he began mobilizing to violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG WILLIAMS JR., FBI HOUSTON: He admitted to wanting to use explosives to commit a mass killing here in Houston. He offered his home as a safe sanctuary to ISIS operatives. He bragged that he would commit a 9/11-style attack if he only had the resources.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: And, Wolf, he allegedly also told authorities that at one point he wanted to join the U.S. military to try to conduct some kind of insider attack. We reached out to his attorney for comment and he at this point is charged with one count of providing material support to a designated foreign terror group -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Josh Campbell reporting, thanks, Josh, for that.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much for watching.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.