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Lawyer Says, My Client Testified She Saw Gaetz Having Sex With a Minor; Trump Confirms Plans to Use Military for Mass Deportations; Biden Allows Ukraine to Use Long-Range U.S. Weapons Inside Russia. Day Two Of Georgia Murder Trial For Suspect In Killing Of Laken Riley; Spirit Airlines Files For Bankruptcy. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 18, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, a new account of damning testimony against President-elect Trump's controversial choice for U.S. attorney general, Matt Gaetz. The lawyer for two women questioned by the House Ethics Committee says one of them told the panel she personally witnessed Gaetz having sex with a minor. We're breaking down what the lawyer said and the potential impact of Gaetz's confirmation.

Also tonight, Trump could announce more cabinet picks at any time, with key positions including treasury secretary still to be revealed. This as the president-elect is confirming his plans to use the U.S. military to carry out mass deportations.

Plus, a strategic shift in U.S. policy on the war in Ukraine, President Biden authorizing Kyiv to use very powerful American long- range missiles to strike inside of Russia. How it raises the stakes for the conflict and for the incoming Trump administration.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

And let's get right to the Breaking News, a lawyer speaking out about bombshell testimony in the House Ethics Committee investigation of now former Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. It's fresh fuel for the firestorm surrounding President-elect Trump's choice of Gaetz to be the U.S. attorney general.

Let's bring in CNN's Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid. Paula, what more are we learning tonight?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: We're learning a lot of new details about the kinds of evidence that the Ethics Committee has gathered in its investigation into former Congressman Gaetz. We've learned that they've actually mined information gathered in a civil lawsuit down in Florida.

Now, this civil lawsuit was brought by an associate of Gaetz against some people who were named in the criminal investigation. But as a result of opening this litigation, they engaged in discovery, which created a whole new record of evidence, including a deposition with a girl who was just 17 years old when she allegedly had sex with Gaetz.

Now, her deposition is still under seal, but the lawyers for those who were sued in this case incorporated some of her sealed testimony into their own questions that are now, because of this lawsuit, part of an open record, including a statement where she claims that she had sex with Gaetz on an air hockey table.

Now, a lawyer for another woman, who was spoken to by the ethics committee, says that she saw Gaetz having sex with a minor. Let's take a listen to what her lawyer said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this particular event, what did your client witness?

JOEL LEPPARD, ATTORNEY FOR HOUSE ETHICS COMMITTEE WITNESSES: So, when she testified in July of 2017 at this house party, she was walking out to the pool area and she looked to her right and she saw Representative Gaetz having sex with her friend who was 17.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And all of this speaks to the kind of information that the Ethics Committee has gathered that was unclear exactly what will make it into their report. I want to note that that same lawyer will be on CNN in about an hour.

BLITZER: Paula, what is Matt Gaetz saying about these allegations?

REID: Well, it's important to remember that the Justice Department investigated these allegations and opted not to charge the congressman. He has repeatedly denied wrongdoing. But in a statement, he said, quote, these allegations are invented and would constitute false testimony to Congress. This false smear following a three-year criminal investigation should be viewed with great skepticism.

BLITZER: All right. Paula Reid, thank you very much. And this important programming note, as Paula just noted, the attorney, Joel Leppard, will be a guest later tonight on Erin Burnett Outfront, 7:00 P.M. Eastern.

As this breaking news unfolds, President-elect Trump is revealing yet another pick for his cabinet.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, Florida, for us, covering the Trump transition. Kristen, who is Trump picking to lead the Department of Transportation?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. He has just tapped former Republican Congressman Sean Duffy, who was a Republican Congressman for about ten years, or, excuse me, eight years in Wisconsin.

[18:05:00]

But most notably about Sean Duffy is that he is a regular on Fox News and he was co-host of the Bottom Line on Fox Business.

The reason why I say that's the most notable is because it starts to fit a pattern of what we have seen in terms of some of these picks from the former president, now president-elect, when it comes to these top cabinet positions. We have been told by senior advisers that Donald Trump has been sitting in a room watching various clips of these potential cabinet members online, talking about him, seeing different television performances of them, because it is very important to Donald Trump that they be able to defend him on T.V. He wants the people who are actually out there as the heads of these various agencies to be able to go on television and talk about what they are doing.

Now, again, Sean Duffy fits that bill. He's somebody who he was shown the same video clips of, he liked his presentation. And now this person is going to be secretary of transportation.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much. Kristen Holmes reporting for us, thank you very, very much.

And, Kate Bedingfield, let me start with you. Gaetz was already under enormous pressure, as we all know, a lot of criticism. How is this latest allegation going to impact all of that?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I think what we're going to see here is a test of whether how much Republican senators hate Matt Gaetz versus love Donald Trump. And I think, based on what we've seen over the last, now, nearly decade, unfortunately, I would say, unfortunately, we know where this is going to go. Donald Trump is going to make this a test of whether these Republican senators are for him or against him. And I think past precedent has shown, at the end of the day, ultimately, these guys are going to be there.

But, you know, obviously this is not a -- you know, whether you are confirmed for a cabinet position isn't a legal threshold question, but is a political threshold and many would argue an ethical threshold, and these kinds of accusations are incredibly serious.

BLITZER: Very serious, indeed. Shermichael Singleton is with us. A source tells CNN, Shermichael, that Trump is very committed to Gaetz as attorney general, saying, and I'm quoting now, he is not going to back off. He's all-in. Why do you think Trump is so committed to having someone accused of having sex with a minor become the attorney general?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Wolf, I think it's early. I think if the Senate If the president signals to the president-elect that there's a very difficult pathway for the former congressman, then perhaps the president-elect would change his mind. I mean, he has two options here. You can attempt a recess appointment or you can go to the traditional pathway, which is through a Senate committee and ultimately to the full body.

Can the former congressman make it through a committee? I'm not necessarily certain yet. We've seen a number of Republican senators that have raised some doubts and some questions. But he has to go through that process. And I think the team that's advising the president-elect will present to him the options and they will probably also advise, Mr. President, we're going into this thing with a pretty nice victory. How much of our political capital do you want to spend on this one individual when there's a host of other things that the American people have elected us to do? And he'll ultimately have to make that decision, Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll see what that decision is. Lula Garcia-Navarro is with us as well. Lulu, House Speaker, Mike Johnson has come pretty strongly, I think, relatively strongly, to Gaetz's defense. I want you to listen to what he said in a recent interview. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Look, Matt Gaetz is a colleague of mine. We've been serving together for more than eight years. He's one of the brightest minds in Washington or anywhere for that matter and he knows everything about how the Department of Justice has been weaponized and misused. And he will be a reformer. And I think that's why the establishment in Washington is so shaken up about this pick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you think?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This is the playbook that we're seeing that Republicans have often employed. Matt Gaetz is a victim. He is a victim of a weaponized DOJ. He is innocent. And the DOJ actually did not choose to prosecute or rather go after him for this. But let's be clear. The DOJ didn't actually go after Matt Gaetz for this, not because there wasn't a case and not because it didn't happen, but because they thought they might not be able to win it.

And so those are two different things. One is the burden of proof as opposed to did it happen or did it not happen. At the end of the day, though President, Donald Trump -- you know, President-elect Donald Trump is not going to back down on this because, why, he is also someone who has been credibly accused of sexual assault. There are many members of his cabinet who are credibly accused of sexual assault. To back down on Matt Gaetz might open the door for other questions to be raised on his other picks. And so I think he's going to ram this down on everyone's throat.

BEDINGFIELD: I totally agree with Lulu's read here, and I think not only that point, which I think is really important, you know, but also, we know that Matt Gaetz shares Donald Trump's view of what the Justice Department should do. We know that, as Trump has been choosing nominees, he's been looking for people who will be loyal to his vision, first and foremost. And he's demonstrated over the last decade that, you know, these kinds of issues he couldn't care less about.

[18:10:01]

So, I think, in some ways, he probably views this as a challenge to ram Matt Gaetz through the Senate. And I think he's going to try to work his will on these Republican senators.

SINGLETON: But, Wolf, Matt Gaetz aside, I mean, I think the president-elect's vision or view of the Justice Department is probably similar to a lot of Americans out there. And that is that oftentimes federal prosecutors, local district attorneys have too much power, too much influence, and a considerable amount of discretion. And a lot of people have seen that discretion used against him, particularly people who aren't of means or of wealth. And so in that regard, his critique, I think, is pretty spot on.

Now, we could, you know, argue and debate about who should lead the department within itself, but I don't necessarily have an issue with the critique of the Justice Department writ large.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But, Shermichael, once if Matt Gaetz is actually put into place here, he is going to owe Donald Trump everything. Donald Trump will have gone to bat for him. He will have protected him. And he will now have him ensconced in the most important law enforcement position in the country. And so at that point, you're going to see something very different, I think.

SINGLETON: I think every cabinet secretary, every pick should be loyal to the person that selected him.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, but not every pick has not credibly accused of sleeping with a minor.

BEDINGFIELD: And I think the other challenge with the broad kind of reformer talking point, which we obviously heard Mike Johnson deliver, and I take your point, you know, there are valid criticisms of business as usual in Washington and a number of agencies. I don't disagree with that at all. But I think that the problem with the reformer talking point when you're talking about Donald Trump is that he has asked people who work for him to do things that fall outside of the limits of the Constitution.

And so when you're putting who you know is going to follow your order regardless of what it is, if you have a record of having asked people who serve with you to do things that run counter to the fundamental -- the Constitution of the United States that's a problem. It's not as simple as we're going to reform the way business is done. It's, if I'm going to ask you to do something like, you know, not certify the election, are you going to do that for me? And that's where the problem is.

SINGLETON: I'm glad we agree that some reform is needed, but no one's been confirmed yet. We have no idea who will or who won't be confirmed. They have to go through the process, and I think we should give the United States Senate the opportunity to interview and vet, if possible, many of these nominees, and we'll see what ultimately happens.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But why not release the report? Why not release the report?

SINGLETON: Well, we'll find out Wednesday, right? We'll find out if the House Ethics Committee decides to release it to the Senate.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But you have Speaker Johnson saying that he does not want this report released to his colleagues in the Senate, his Republican colleagues in the Senate. There is no reason for that. If you want to give everyone the information that they have been investigating, you should release the report. I don't understand why it's being hidden.

SINGLETON: Well, I know a lot of Republican senators have asked. They want to see the report before they ultimately make their decision. I think that's fair.

BEDINGFIELD: I think there's no chance (ph).

BLITZER: And the American public wants to see the report too.

SINGLETON: Yes, I think that's what they say is purview.

BEDINGFIELD: And I think there's no chance that it doesn't leak, even if it is not formally released, which I would agree it certainly should be. I think there is zero chance that it does not get leaked out of the House of Representatives.

BLITZER: Lulu, on another very sensitive issue, let me get your thoughts, the President-elect is now confirming that he plans to declare what he describes as a national emergency and use the United States military in his plans for mass deportation of undocumented immigrants, workers, by and large. This could have massive, massive consequences.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What President-elect Trump is thinking of using is the Insurrection Act. This is a an act that is from the early 1800s. It has rarely been employed in the way that he is thinking of employing it. He is thinking of using the United States military and basically having mass deportations happen. That is just one of a number of things that President-elect Trump and his administration are thinking of doing.

This remains to be seen if they can actually do it, and I'll tell you why. It is very hard to deport a lot of people like this. They're talking about a million people a year. Where are they going to put them? Where are they going to send them? Which people exactly are the ones that they're going to be looking for? They say they have a mandate. He ran on immigration. He did not hide that these were his plans. Many people support this. At the end of the day, it remains to be seen how he will do it and there will be many legal challenges, I can assure you.

SINGLETON: Well, Lulu, I mean, I will say former President Obama deported, what, 4.7, 4.8 million people, almost 5. Donald Trump will be in office in four years.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Not using the U.S. military, though.

SINGLETON: Well, that's fair, but in terms of deportations, there's a precedent for deporting a significant number of people -- GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm not discussing deportations. We're discussing the method of deportations, right?

SINGLETON: That's fair.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Every president, including this one, who sits right now, has deported people who are here in this country illegally, and that is not the question. The question is how. Are you doing this in a way that actually, you know, supports people's civil liberties? Are you going to be doing drag nets? Are you going to be expelling people who are not do not have criminal backgrounds? I mean, there's lots of questions that are going to be answered.

We've heard the person who is going to be sort of the architect of this discussed that they might be actually deporting people who are U.S. citizens, the children that are U.S. citizens of illegal immigrants.

[18:15:04]

They're talking about taking away birthright citizenship. This is a wholesale change in the way that immigration has been dealt with in this country. And the question is, is this a wholesale change that is going to be debated? Is this a wholesale change that's going to have the sign off of the American people? Is it going to actually -- is Congress going to have a hand in this? Or is this going to be a unilateral decision that Donald Trump makes?

SINGLETON: Yes, the details are definitely important, but I think there is a mandate and precedent to deport a significant number of people. As long as you do it within the confines of the law, I think most Americans would agree with that.

BLITZER: We're going to see mothers and fathers deported, but their kids staying here if they were born in the United States. It's going to be tearing apart these families, the pictures, the images that are about to unfold if we see U.S. troops, Army soldiers, Marines, Navy personnel. It's going to be really devastating.

SINGLETON: That has to be part of the calculus, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. The image is going to be devastating.

All right, guys, stand by. There's more to discuss. Just ahead, the Biden administration announces a long-awaited change, a major change, giving Ukraine permission to use long range U.S. weapons against Russian forces inside Russia.

Stay with us. You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

BLITZER: As Ukraine reels right now from the most intense Russian missile barrage in months, the Biden administration is finally giving the green light to a major policy change, allowing Kyiv's forces to use long range US weapons against Russian troops and forces inside Russia.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For the desperately familiar scramble to find survivors after Russian missiles slammed into the border town of Sumi on Sunday night, less usual the death toll of 11, 2 children, a residential block hit. And just hours later, another ten killed in a strike on Odessa. Horrifically, this is now the norm for Ukraine. The weekend seeing a particularly large nationwide attack after nearly a thousand days of war.

Donald Trump's election may have made diplomacy a likelihood again, but Ukraine's Zelenskyy clear how the strike showed, quote, what Russia is really interested in, only war.

He visited two frontline towns under intense Russian pressure Monday, Pokrovsk, key to Ukraine's entire southeastern front, and Kupyansk, a town Russia was kicked out of in late 2022. All signs the war, for months, has not been going Ukraine's way.

Perhaps behind the stark and significant U.S. policy change Sunday, sources telling CNN President Joe Biden has finally permitted Ukraine to use long range American missiles to strike inside Russia, something Zelenskyy has for months begged for.

The plan to strengthen Ukraine is the victory plan I had presented to partners, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said. Long-range possibilities for our army is one of its major points. Missiles will speak for themselves, he added.

One U.S. official said the missiles would focus on Kursk, the part of Russia Ukraine invaded in August, where Moscow is due to make a counterattack and a key bargaining chip if peace talks begin.

Biden's decision process familiar, like with HIMARS missiles, he said no, while Ukraine struggled to push Russia back in 2022, and then relented. And with Abrams tanks, he paused, so they arrived too late to help in 2023's counteroffensive. And F-16 jets, at first rejected, are now helping Ukraine push Russia's advances back.

The ATACMS won't change Ukraine's war overnight. There are not enough of them. But it is a move Biden refused to make for months, saying it was too escalatory, but now endorses, entangling the U.S. deeper into the war just months ahead of Trump taking office.

The fear, how Putin will react. When the idea first emerged, he said it would be a stark escalation. This will mean that NATO countries, the United States and European countries are fighting Russia, he said.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WALSH (on camera): Now, we haven't heard from the Kremlin head today, and it may be like in previous times, his sort of red lines begin to get fuzzy when the U.S. takes actions that he specifically warned them against. A foreign ministry spokesperson reiterated that kind of point, saying that Russia would respond adequately and in a similar vein.

But this is an extraordinary move by the Biden administration, and it definitely changes the landscape that they will pass to President- elect Donald Trump. Maybe that's the point. Wolf?

BLITZER: Very significant development indeed, Nick Paton Walsh, thank you for that report.

Joining us now, a key Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

As you know, President Biden resisted Kyiv's pleas. They were begging for these long range missiles for months and months. So, is today's step, from your perspective, now too late?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, Wolf, first and foremost, we need to stop listening to public statements coming from Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin, right? They feed us a steady diet of the things that we are worried about, of the things that divide us politically. They know how to play us really well. So, we just need to stop listening to the Kremlin and Putin. We have intelligence systems and networks that can understand the way that they are moving their troops around, that understand their strategic nuclear weapons. We know how to assess the threat from Russia. But I really wish people would stop saying, Vladimir Putin says this, or the Kremlin says that. That's one.

Number two there has been a bipartisan coalition in Congress that's been pushing for the expansion and the use of U.S. weapons for over a year now.

[18:25:02]

Ukraine is at war. They're fighting a war that's in our interest, that they win, that they stop Russian aggression dead in its tracks. And we need to start making sure they get the stuff timely.

So, I hope that it's true that they've authorized this expansion. They have not publicly acknowledged that. But if it is true, it's the right move.

BLITZER: Well, it's clear it's happening right now. Congressman, when President Biden's term ends on January 20th, he will be leaving behind an almost three-year-long protracted war where the U.S. was slow initially to send Kyiv Patriot missiles, F-16 fighter jets, and now these long range missiles. Would you consider the Biden administration's policies on Ukraine to be a success?

CROW: Well, I think you have to look at a couple of things, number one, the coalition of countries, the over 50 countries that are a member of what's called the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, this is the coalition that was put together by the Biden administration exists because of the administration's response. Secretary of Defense Austin, Secretary of State Blinken and so many others that have worked hard to create this coalition, that would not exist without the United States' leadership, without the U.S. leading that, without us pushing Russia, France, so many other countries to come to the table and give aid.

That said, I have pushed for aid to be delivered faster, you know, as your prior segment pointed out, for certain systems to be delivered sooner on a quicker timeline. I will continue to do that because there's no doubt that in war, time matters a lot. Time has not been on the Ukrainian's side here, so speed is important. And I'm going to continue to push things to happen much quicker than they have been.

The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said on Friday that the war would end faster, he said this, under the incoming Trump administration. Do you agree with that?

CROW: Well, what I know is happening here is that President Zelenskyy knows he has to deal with President Trump. He knows he has to deal with President Trump. That's been a very tense relationship. President Trump. Has maligned President Zelenskyy, has attacked Ukraine. Let's not forget about the first impeachment trial, which was because President Trump tried to blackmail, extort Ukraine and President Zelenskyy to help him politically.

So, President Zelenskyy is a wartime president that is trying to save his country and trying to save his people. And it's very clear to me that he's doing what's necessary to try to extend an olive branch, start a discussion with the incoming administration, which you can't fault him for doing.

But I will be really clear here. President Trump cannot solve this crisis. He continuously claims that only he can solve these international crises. Only he can solve these problems, which, of course, he didn't do when he was the president the first time around. And without an international coalition, without real leadership, he won't do the second time around.

BLITZER: Congressman Jason Crow, thank you so much for joining us.

CROW: Thank you.

BLITZER: And coming up, we'll have more from Capitol Hill as the House Ethics Committee gets ready to meet over releasing the report on Matt Gaetz. We'll talk with Republican Congressman Mike Lawler.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: There's more breaking news this hour on the choice of Matt Gaetz to be the next U.S. attorney general. We're told President-elect Trump is now calling Senators directly to lobby for Gaetz's confirmation amid growing concerns, including among Republicans. Joining us now, Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York, he's a key member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

Trump seems to be doubling down on Gaetz right now, as a lawyer is now saying his clients testified to the House Ethics Committee that Gaetz actually paid them for sex. You support releasing all these findings to the Senate, but Speaker Johnson doesn't necessarily support that. Do you think the speaker is trying to protect Gaetz, and, by extension, Trump by trying to keep this ethics report private?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Look, as I've said repeatedly, President Trump certainly has the right to nominate who he sees fit for his cabinet. I also believe fundamentally that the Senate has a job to do. They have the responsibility to confirm a nominee, and in the process of that, are entitled to, and should have access to all relevant information with respect to these prospective nominees.

Obviously, these are serious allegations that have been leveled against former Congressman Matt Gaetz. And they should be evaluated as part of this confirmation process. The fact is that there was an Ethics Committee investigation that had seemingly, by all reports, completed its work. And a report was subject to be released pending approval last week, you know, and Matt Gaetz resigned prior to that vote.

As I understand it, the Ethics Committee will be meeting this Wednesday. The chairman of the Ethics Committee, Mike Guest, said that they're not going to be dissuaded by anyone's outside input but rather we'll make a determination as a committee.

So, we'll see what comes of that. But, obviously, you're already starting to see reports and interviews including with the attorney for the alleged you know, victims in this case coming forward. So, we'll see what comes out of this process. This is why we have a Senate confirmation process, and the information will be will play itself out in due time.

[18:35:04]

BLITZER: Yes, it's going to be explosive, to be sure.

Speaker Johnson, Congressman, is also leaving open the possibility of actually adjourning the House, and you're a member of the House, for Trump to appoint cabinet members by what's called recess appointments. Would you and enough members of your conference support that?

LAWLER: Look, I do not support doing that. I think, obviously, President Trump's nominees should all get a speedy and expeditious hearing and a yay or nay vote. He has the right to have the cabinet of his choosing, certainly, and certainly have a fair and judicious vote to allow him to get to work on behalf of the American people. I do not think these votes should be delayed. But, obviously, proper procedure and protocol should be followed.

BLITZER: CNN is also learning, Congressman, that Trump's defense secretary pick, Pete Hegseth, paid a woman who accused him of sexual assault in a settlement. He denies the allegation. Do you think Hegseth is fit to run the Department of Defense?

LAWLER: Look, obviously, all of these allegations are merely that. The process will play itself out. People have a right to due process in this country, certainly. And the mere allegation alone is not confirmation of the allegation itself.

But I think, you know, Pete Hegseth certainly is a decorated war veteran. He's a major in the Army. He certainly has the background and knowledge of our military, having served in Iraq and Afghanistan and having been heavily involved in veterans' issues for decades.

So, look, that's why we have this process. All of these nominees will have the right to you know, present themselves and answer their question, answer any questions posed by senators. But I think President Trump is quickly moving to put forth a very strong cabinet, including with Senator Marco Rubio, Elise Stefanik, Lee Zeldin among many others who are all highly qualified and capable and will do a great job on behalf of the United States and the people.

BLITZER: Congressman Mike Lawler, thanks so much for joining us.

LAWLER: Thank you.

BLITZER: And just ahead, we'll get back to the developments overseas with Russia now saying the U.S. has, quote, thrown oil on the fire with a decision by President Biden.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: The Biden administration just announced a huge policy shift finally granting Ukraine's request to use U.S. weapons to strike deep inside Russia.

Let's get reaction from our military analyst, retired U.S. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. We're also joined by CNN Contributor on Russian Affairs Jill Dougherty.

General Hertling, how much of an impact will the use of these powerful ATACM weapons inside Russia have on Ukraine's ability to win this war?

GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It will contribute significantly to the tactical operations, Wolf. On the battlefield, these are intense weapons. They're highly kinetic. And depending on the type they use, whether high explosive or with the cluster munitions, it could be very effective against the Russian troops, specifically the Korean troops that are part of those formations. But we don't know yet how it will affect the issues strategically, because we don't know how Russia will react to the use of these weapons on their own soil.

BLITZER: Jill, you're a former Moscow bureau chief for CNN. You know, this issue very well. Did the Biden administration make a mistake in waiting too long to authorize the use of these ATACMS deep inside Russia?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, some people definitely would say yes because they look at the pattern that the Biden administration has had, which there were other armaments that Biden said, no, we can't, we won't give permission, and then eventually he did. And now, two months before Biden is out of office, he gives permission.

So, there is a sizable group of people who support Ukraine, who say, this is too little too late. Maybe not too little but it's certainly too late. And then there are others, and especially you hear this from Trump supporters and the Trump team, that this is a very dangerous step. You certainly hear it from Putin, who is saying that this is a red line, and it's an indication that the United States now is directly involved in the conflict. And he says he'll retaliate.

BLITZER: On that point that, General Hertling, as Jill just mentioned, Putin previously said allowing the use of these weapons inside Russia would make the U.S. and other NATO allies parties to the war. How do you see the risk of escalation?

HERTLING: Well, that's what's been in the discussion points over the last several months, and, in fact, the last several years, Wolf. When is the right time to deploy these weapons? And based on what Jill said, I'm a firm believer that the weapons have been deployed through all the 50-plus nations that have been supporting Ukraine in a very good manner to get into their hands of their soldiers at the right time, at the right place. Some are suggesting that we give them all immediately. And I would suggest having worked with the Ukrainian Army, they wouldn't have been able to have handled all those things flowing in.

What, in effect, has happened is Ukraine has built an army over the last three years that they did not have at the start of this war, and it's been mostly due to the contributions of the other nations.

Going back to your questions about Mr. Putin, he has bluffed on multiple occasions in the past, and I think that is all part of the calculations of the National Security Council as well, is when can you continue to do things without having Putin react.

[18:45:00]

BLITZER: Jill, did you see this move as an effort by the Biden administration, to quote, Trump-proof aid to Ukraine?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yeah, in a way, that's true. I think you know, if you look big picture, you've got the Russians and the Ukrainians now trying to grab or hold retain as much territory as they can because it appears, you know based on what Trump says, there will be a push when Trump comes into office to try to resolve this in one way or the other.

And so I think both sides are really now in a very intentional fashion moving forward to grab land especially Russia in Kursk. You know which is the area that the Ukrainians moved into. They are putting everything that they can to push the Ukrainians out and that includes General Hertling said, you know, probably 10,000 North Koreans.

BLITZER: Yeah, these are very, very serious developments.

Jill Dougherty, General Hertling, to both of you, thank you very much.

Coming up, day two of a Georgia murder trial that's become a political flashpoint, with DNA becoming key evidence today for both the prosecution and the defense.

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[18:50:28]

BLITZER: We're following new testimony in the murder trial of an undocumented migrant accused of killing a nursing student in Georgia. The death of Laken Riley has become a focus of political debate as Donald Trump and Republicans seized on the case to push for an immigration crackdown.

Brian Todd is working the story.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a Georgia courtroom, prosecutors have ticked through several pieces of evidence that they say incriminates, the man accused of killing 22-year-old Laken Riley. Riley, a student at the Augusta University College of Nursing, brutally murdered while she was jogging on the University of Georgia campus in February.

Prosecutors have shown images of a man wearing clothes consistent with the defendants throwing out a jacket, with both his and Riley's DNA on it, and they've described Laken Riley as fighting for her life in her final moments, collecting DNA under her fingernails, which they say implicates Jose Ibarra as her killer.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's damning and it's very compelling. We know that his DNA is under the fingernails of Laken Riley. Well, how did it get there? And now, you see that there are scratches on him.

TODD: Ibarra is charged with murder and other crimes connected to Riley's death. He's pleaded not guilty. But this case has become about more than one murder, especially for President-elect Donald Trump.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Laken Riley would be alive today if Joe Biden had not willfully and maliciously eviscerated the borders of the United States and set loose thousands and thousands of dangerous criminals into our country.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Trump has really used this case to highlight his policy position about mass deportations and about deporting violent criminals. Specifically, he mentions this case at nearly every rally, and for a lot of his supporters, it's become a rallying cry. TRUMP: When I'm reelected, we will begin removing these criminals, these horrible people from our midst, and well end up doing it immediately.

TODD: Jose Ibarra is an undocumented migrant from Venezuela. Before Riley's murder, Ibarra had been arrested and released twice in the U.S. once when he was accused of crossing the border illegally in 2022 and then in New York City last year when he was charged with acting in a manner to injure a child under 17. By February of this year, Ibarra was living in Athens, Georgia, where Laken Riley was killed.

Trump spoke about the case again at the Republican National Convention.

TRUMP: I've also met with the wonderful family of Laken Riley, yet another American life was stolen by a criminal alien set free by this administration.

TODD: President Biden acknowledged Riley's case at the State of the Union Address this year, but misstated her first name.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Lincoln Riley, an innocent young woman who was killed by an illegal.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): By an illegal.

TODD: The Democrats have blamed Trump for scuttling a bipartisan border security bill earlier this year. Vice President Kamala Harris, speaking about that to Fox about three weeks before the election.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If a border security had actually been passed nine months ago, it would be nine months that we would have had more border agents at the border, more support for the folks who are working around the clock trying to hold it all together --

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Madam Vice President --

HARRIS: -- to ensure that no future harm would occur.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): Analyst Astead Herndon says Donald Trump and his allies could actually get bipartisan support for deportations if they focus those deportations, mainly on violent criminals. But he says if they start targeting all undocumented migrants for deportation, the political brushback will likely be much more severe -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I suspect he's right. Brian Todd reporting -- Brian, thank you.

And coming up, one of the nation's biggest airlines is now filing for bankruptcy.

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[18:58:32]

BLITZER: Tonight, the budget-friendly air carrier Spirit -- Spirit Airlines is filing for bankruptcies.

CNN's Pete Muntean is joining us.

Pete, this is happening just before the huge Thanksgiving travel holiday.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: And the big takeaway here, Wolf, is that this is bad for competition.

You know, people love to hate on Spirit, but you should care about this. Even if you did not fly on Spirit, ushered in the term ultra low cost carrier so this might keyword might lead to ticket prices going up on other airlines.

Here's the good news, if you have a ticket or a credit on Spirit Airlines, you will not notice any change. For now, spirit insists in a statement that guests can continue to book and fly without interruption and can use all tickets, credits and loyalty points as normal. Also, no impact to workers. The union representing Spirits flight attendants says their contract remains in place. No changes to pay or benefits, no furloughs or layoffs also, Spirits vendors will continue to get paid.

The big question now is what will happen to Spirit in the long run? Frontier Airlines tried to merge with Spirit back in 2022, and just a few months later, JetBlue tried to do the same thing. But its acquisition of Spirit was blocked by the Justice Department on antitrust grounds. Frontier ended its merger plans with Spirit earlier this month, meaning no more apparent lifelines for Spirit Airlines.

It's saddled with about $3 billion in debt, and now its really on passengers to pay attention. A top airline consumer advocate tells me that flights could be eliminated in the months ahead. So it's especially important to sign up for alerts and check your flight status online obsessively.

One silver lining here is that this is unlikely to have an impact on Thanksgiving or holiday travel with the Thanksgiving rush just days away from beginning -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Pete Muntean reporting for us -- Pete, thank you very, very much.

And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. You can always follow me on X formerly known as Twitter. You can Instagram me @WolfBlitzer.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.