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Trump Downplays Rift With Zelenskyy Ahead of Meeting Tomorrow; HHS Silent on Measles Vaccine Amid Deadly Outbreak; Sheriff Says, Not Ruling Out Foul Play in Death of Gene Hackman and Wife. Musk's Starlink Gets FAA Contract In Potential Conflict Of Interest; Rose Girone, The Oldest Known Holocaust Survivor, Dies At 113. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 27, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, President Trump just wrapped up another critically important meeting with a key European ally over at the White House. Trump and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer turning their focus toward Ukraine peace talks just ahead of tomorrow's visit from the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Also tonight, concerning silence from the nation's top health agency amid a deadly measles outbreak in Texas. Why the department led by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. still isn't publicly pushing for vaccination after the disease killed a school aged child.

Plus, we're looking into the mysterious death of Hollywood legend Gene Hackman. Authorities now say they can't rule out foul play after the 95-year-old actor was found dead in his home along with his wife.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

First to the breaking news right here in Washington, President Trump downplaying his rift with Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy just ahead of tomorrow's meeting over at the White House while saying he doesn't believe Vladimir Putin would violate a potential peace deal.

Let's get some more right now from our Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny. He's over at the White House. Jeff, give us the latest.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, another day, another European leader visiting the White House here trying to urge the American president to offer some guarantees for Ukraine that would keep Russia from re invading the country should a peace deal be reached. We are on the verge of a potentially historic meeting here between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the White House on Friday.

But it was that relationship between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin that hung heavy over this meeting with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer. Again and again, Donald Trump said he trusts Vladimir Putin and takes him at his word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: And then I think I'll keep his word. I think he's -- I've spoken to him, I've known him for a long time now, you know, I've known him. We had to go through the Russian hoax together. That was not a good thing. That's not fair. That was a rigged deal and had nothing to do with Russia.

I don't believe he's going to violate his word. I don't think he'll be back when we make a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: The President making those comments there in the Oval Office as the British prime minister was watching. And after that they had a private meeting, a lunch, and then a press conference as well. And throughout all of it, the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, in his first meeting here at the White House trying to urge the president to take note of history.

And, you know, this was a monumental meeting here, probably the biggest one between a British prime minister and an American president since the end of the Second World War, and that was clear when Starmer talked,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: we have to win the peace, and that's what we must do now, because it can't be peace that rewards the aggressor or that gives encouragement to regimes like Iran. We agree history must be on the side of the peacemaker, not the invader.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Strong words there, history must be on the side of the peacemaker, not the invader.

But, again, at the end of a series of meetings, of course, starting earlier this week with French President Emmanuel Macron and the message amplified today by the British prime minister, it is unclear if any of their warnings against Putin have had much of an effect on the president. He says, clearly, he likes him, he trusts him, he thinks he wants to do a deal in Ukraine. The question is what that deal would look like.

But, Wolf, all of this is setting up to a very potentially historic meeting tomorrow when President Zelenskyy is scheduled to visit the White House tomorrow morning. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Jeff Zeleny over at the White House, thank you.

I want to get some reaction from Ukraine right now. That's where CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is standing by in the capital city of Kyiv. Nick, did this meeting between the U.S. and U.K. leaders today offer some clarity for Ukraine's future?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think it was fascinating to hear President Trump essentially pretend that he hadn't called President Zelenskyy a dictator earlier.

[18:05:01]

He sort of said, I can't imagine I said that, and then pressed again on that comment, totally failed to answer it and said he had a great relationship. He was looking forward to meeting Zelenskyy and had great respect for the bravery of Ukrainian soldiers, a marked change in tone, frankly, after ten days in which their relationship seemed to be in free fall.

So, if you were, I think Ukrainian president on your way or perhaps already in the United States now, you would be feeling deeply heartened by those comments and by the fact that this rare earth minerals deal appears to be moving forwards and even President Trump suggesting that they might even have Americans on the ground inside Ukraine, of course, if in the event of peace, dig -- we must dig, he kept saying.

Interesting points though made about the potential for a peacekeeping force. All of this is so far forward in thinking, because, as Trump said himself, it's the deal that's going to be the hard part. He claimed that the deal with the Putin will be the difficult thing and then the steps that will follow afterwards be relatively simple.

But those steps afterwards are exceptionally complex and Starmer is offering U.K. troops as part of that. The French seem to be into that as well. But he also made an interesting comment today about what else the U.K. might provide. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STARMER: I'm working closely with other European leaders on this and I'm clear that the U.K. is ready to put boots on the ground and planes in the air to support a deal working together with our allies, because that is the only way that peace will last.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Now, planes in the air, that's a significant statement, because I don't think until this point we've really had the British spell out the fact they might use aircraft. And that's key for Ukraine because they would want skies in the event of a peace deal to be patrolled. The air threat is horrific every night here. But that also suggests that they may be contributing more of the sort of technological, logistical support that you might normally look towards the United States Air Force to provide.

Clearly, plans are developing here, the Europeans stepping forwards, and I think we're beginning to see the germs of a European peace strategy here. Donald Trump not spelling out that they would definitely defend European troops if they came under attack, but he did say they would always have Britain's back. Wolf? BLITZER: Interesting. Nick Paton, Walsh in Ukraine for us, thank you.

Our political experts are joining me right now. Let me start with David Axelrod. David, thanks very much for coming in. I want to play a moment from the Oval Office earlier today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think the president and I actually have had a very good relationship. It maybe got a little bit testy.

REPORTER: Mr. President, do you still think that Mr. Zelenskyy is a dictator?

TRUMP: Did I say that? I can't believe I said that. Next question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. David, what do you make of this about face by Trump on the eve of Zelenskyy's visit?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he better read his social media more closely because he posted that and he obviously did say it. I think he is looking forward to this meeting tomorrow and trying to steer through it.

The questions that have been, have occurred still remain after these conversations though, Wolf, which is what comes along with this mineral agreement they signed, what comes along with any peace agreement in terms of security guarantees, and that is paramount for Ukraine. And of all these signals that made send a signal of easing to Zelenskyy, he can't be comforted by the fact that Trump says he trusts Putin on any peace deal, knowing the fact that Russia twice betrayed Ukraine in previous deals.

And so they're going to need more than Trump's assurance that Putin will cooperate. They're going to need some hard security guarantees and the United States has to be a part of that.

BLITZER: Important point, indeed.

Lance Trover is with us. Lance, President Trump also declined to say if he will apologize to President Zelenskyy for calling him a dictator. Does the president need to clear the air before tomorrow's historic meeting.

LANCE TROVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it's not stopping Zelenskyy from showing up tomorrow to sign this deal. Look, we're in a big negotiation. Things get said. You know, if it were up to me, this stuff wouldn't be said publicly, I think it would be better for it to all be behind the scenes and work on that. But, look, these are negotiations, things get heated, things get said.

But I got to give Donald Trump -- I think we got to give him some credit. We're 38 days in here and look what happened today. We had an affirmation of our relationship with the U.K., which certainly made me proud as American. I'm sure the Brits are glad to see that as well. We see them kicking in the planes in the air and boots on the ground. We see them saying Europe does need to do more in terms of their own defense. So, we are moving in the right direction in terms of getting a deal.

[18:10:00]

And so for all the moaning and wailing, we hear from some of the other side, frankly, like a lot of want to keep this war going, I think they need to back off a little bit and give the president this breathing room to try to get this war done, which we know everybody here in America wants to see over and done with.

BLITZER: Let's get Jasmine Wright into this conversation. Jasmine, the U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal, which is supposedly going to be signed as it stands right now, does not necessarily have security guarantees for Ukraine. President Trump is confident that the deal will be signed tomorrow at the White House. What do you think? Is that likely?

JASMINE WRIGHT, REPORTER, NOTUS: Yes, well, the president seems to think it's likely and I think that's reflected in his more open and more favorable tone. I was talking to a couple people today on the Republican side who frankly sounded a little bit surprised that he had taken such a welcoming or congratulatory tone towards Zelenskyy. And it's in part because I think that he and his team feel that they're getting really, really close to this deal. And that is why Zelenskyy is on his way. If not, he's already here.

Listen, I think that I've talked to so many diplomats over the last three months who have really been trying to parse through Trump's comments to see what he really means. Is it just a part of his negotiation tactics, as Lance said. Is it really how he's feeling? And I think that there's a lot of confusion among people both allied with the U.S. and other diplomats about where Trump really is. And I think that Trump believes that that is his strength when it comes to foreign policy, that people cannot pin him down and that they don't know what he's going to say. And that makes them more willing to make a deal.

But Trump certainly wants this to happen. He wants to be able to claim victory, as he does want to on so many other things, both foreign policy and domestic policy. And so I think that he's going to really try to get Zelenskyy to a place where he ends up signing that in the Oval Office or in some other ceremony where they can then show the press that this is another promise that Trump made and another promise that Trump kept. But, of course, only time will tell but I think that this, you know, energy or this kind of excitement that Trump is showing in regards to Zelenskyy is because he believes that a deal is closed.

BLITZER: Yes, I'm sure he does. I want to go back to David Axelrod right now. David, some members of the GOP aren't completely sold on a minerals deal or without security guarantees for Ukraine. What do you make of there not being a unified message right now from within the GOP?

AXELROD: Well, this reflects a division that we've seen throughout. I mean, some of the strongest supporters of Ukraine have been in the GOP. Some of them are strong supporters of Donald Trump as well. One of them was Marco Rubio when he was in the Senate not long ago.

So, you know, this is one of the divisions that has opened up in the Republican Party between the isolationists and those who feel like America has a role to play to defend democracy and to preserve sovereign borders in the world.

I thought Starmer was very artful today because he said he was very gracious to the president, he made an offering in terms of more defense expenditures on the part of Great Britain, but he also said we can't reward the invader, and it was very clear who he was talking about, and we must have security guarantees for Ukraine. And, you know, those messages are still unresolved and we'll see how it plays out in tomorrow's meeting.

BLITZER: We will see. Lance, you're a Republican strategist. What do you make of the disagreement within the Republican Party right now?

TROVER: Well, there's been a large disagreement for many years now over this war, but I would just -- you know, anybody who kind of -- if you're looking at the polling, I think the public has made it very clear here in America they're over the endless wars, and their support for this war is continuing to wane every single day. I don't think anybody wants to reward Vladimir Putin, anybody at all wants to reward him, but the fact of the matter is, while we hold a lot of cards, the U.K. and Europe holds a lot of cards, he holds a lot of cards as well. And so I think everybody's kind of got to get on board that if we want this war to end, which I think most people do, we're going to have to work with him and not everybody's going to end up happy at the end of the day, but that's how negotiations work.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, Jasmine, that Senator Elissa Slotkin, the newly elected senator from Michigan, will deliver the Democratic response to President Trump's address to a joint session of Congress Tuesday night. What was the thinking here from your perspective?

WRIGHT: Yes. Well, I think that the senator, new senator is one that a lot of people, particularly a lot of Democrats around the country, can relate to. Obviously, her reputation stands for her. She's obviously been in the national security space. She's been in Congress before. But I think more importantly, Wolf, she's one of the few Democrats that I know, when I've talked to voters, people who have identified say that they believe that she is in sync with what the voters of America feel, that she actually gets it and that she was one of the first few to really be at least somewhat public about her disagreements with Biden still being in the race or maybe comments that Biden made.

[18:15:18]

And she has really been kind of out there in a way that maybe some of her other Democratic peers are not.

So, I believe that people. I think that she is kind of one of the leaders going forward of the Democratic Party, at least to be able to rebut Trump and speak to the American voters, something that Democrats have been struggling with over time.

BLITZER: Let me get David Axelrod back into this. David, what's your reaction to Senator Slotkin being chosen?

AXELROD: Yes, I agree with Jasmine. She has both the national security bona fides to speak to what we're talking about today, but she's also very rooted in the Midwest. She's from a swing district in Michigan. She understands the concerns, the day-to-day concerns that people have, and she's very plain spoken about all of that. So, it was -- I thought it was a good choice.

Before we go, Wolf, I want to tell you, I've had the pleasure to be in both of these rooms over at the White House and yours. And when you move to your new time slot next week, I look forward to following you there because yours is more fun.

BLITZER: Yes, much better video in our Situation Room than they have over at the White House. I'm sure about that. Everybody seems to agree.

AXELROD: Absolutely.

BLITZER: All right, guys, thank you very much. And, David, we'll look forward to having you in The Situation Room in our new expanded two hour time starting Monday, 10:00 A.M. Eastern until noon Eastern. All of you, we'll be looking forward to seeing you in The Situation Room. Guys, thank you very, very much.

And just ahead, nominees for top positions over at the U.S. Justice Department suggesting that some court orders can be ignored. We'll talk with a key member of the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Peter Welch, he is standing by live.

Plus, inside Elon Musk's proposal to take over the FAA and overhaul, the nation's air traffic communications system.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

BLITZER: All right. Let's get an update right now on President Trump's very aggressive push to slash the federal government here in the nation's capital today. USAID workers had just 15 minutes to pack up their belongings in their offices, vacate their offices at the humanitarian agency, which has been gutted by mass layoffs.

Let's get reaction right now from Democratic Senator Peter Welch of Vermont. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

What's your reaction to how these USAID workers, many of them have been there for 10, 20, 30 years, are being treated, you can go back to your office, collect whatever you want, you got 15 minutes, and then you got to leave? SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): It's savage, and cruel, and you used the wrong word. You said slash, the agenda here, and they're well underway to accomplishing it, is to destroy the U.S. Agency for International Development. So, a couple of things, number one, since the Kennedy administration, that's been an instrument of our soft power, very, very effective. Number two, the way the president is doing this is totally unconstitutional. He's interfering with specific congressional appropriations, incidentally, appropriations that Secretary of State Marco Rubio advocated for and voted for. Third, the cruelty to receipt recipients, we've got 170 countries were involved in. There is food in warehouses that's available for starving children. It won't be delivered. There's medicine that provide vaccines to prevent outbreaks of calamitous diseases, won't be injected.

So, this is an extraordinary action and done in a way of maximum cruelty to our workers, but also to the starving kids, the sick folks around the world. So, I'm really shocked by it, but nothing shocks me anymore with the Trump administration.

BLITZER: On another sensitive issue, Senator, the U.S. Supreme Court has now paused a midnight deadline that would have required the Trump administration to spend $2 billion dollars in frozen foreign aid, money that's been authorized and appropriated by Congress, signed into law by the president. What is your level of confidence in the court's ability to keep the administration in check?

WELCH: Well, that really diminishes it. Keep in mind, Justice Roberts did that on his own, and he overruled the lower court decisions. And, by the way, this is not just freezing the money. This is money that is owed because the contracting parties had done the work. So, it's like you showed up for work, you were there for your 40 hours, you put in your time, and then your employer says, you know what, I'm not paying you this week. So, that is an -- this is money that's earned, owed, and obligated. So, I find that a dismal decision by Chief Justice Roberts.

BLITZER: It was really fascinating to hear this -- during his confirmation hearing, Trump's nominee for U.S. solicitor general, John Sauer, said he won't rule out ignoring court orders. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. JOHN SAUER, SOLICITOR GENERAL NOMINEE: Generally, if there's a direct court order that binds a federal or state official, they should follow it.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Why do you say generally? Give me an exception that would be acceptable to you.

SAUER: I suppose, again, as I sit here, I can't think of a hypothetical one way or the other. I suppose one could imagine hypotheticals in, you know, extreme cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: How should Congress respond if that happens, Senator? WELCH: Well, first of all, it's really important that you're getting this out to the American people, because what we have now is a president who's violating the power of the purse and impounding money, something that Nixon was not allowed to do by the Supreme Court.

[18:25:03]

Second, you're having the solicitor general basically say that the president has an option as to whether he will follow a Supreme Court order. That is an extraordinary constitutional crisis.

So, right now, we have the president disregarding Democrats. He's not at all engaged with us. He's disregarding Republicans unless they've taken the fealty oath to him. And his solicitor general is saying it's optional as to whether the president will follow a court order. This is a prescription for a collapse of our Constitution.

BLITZER: Yes, it's a real worrisome development indeed.

Senator Peter Welch, thanks so much for joining us.

WELCH: Thank you.

BLITZER: And coming up, new details emerging in the death investigation of the actor, Gene Hackman. Police tonight saying foul play is not suspected, but they're also not ruling it out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: Breaking news, authorities in New Mexico now say they can't rule out foul play in the deaths of the actor Gene Hackman and his wife after the pair were found deceased in their home.

CNN's Brian Todd is on the story for us. Brian, the sheriff isn't giving a cause of death in this case, but says the autopsies could be crucial.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf. And the Santa Fe Sheriff's Office now says preliminary autopsies have been performed on Gene Hackman and his wife, and that toxicology and carbon monoxide tests have been requested. Still a lot of crucial information needed given the mysterious nature of these deaths.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice over): The iconic 95-year-old actor, his 65-year-old wife, Betsy Arakawa, and one of their dogs were found in different rooms when deputies conducted a wellness check at their Santa Fe, New Mexico, home. That's according to a search warrant affidavit obtained by CNN affiliate KOAT.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we just found two of one deceased person inside a house. TODD: In a 911 call obtained by CNN, a man identifying himself as a caretaker said he saw the bodies while looking through a window from the outside, but said he couldn't go inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they moving at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, dude, they're not moving. Just send somebody out here really quick.

TODD: The affidavit says Gene Hackman was found in a mudroom and that Arakawa was found in a bathroom next to a space heater. The search warrant affidavit says there was an open prescription bottle and pills scattered on a countertop near Betsy Arakawa's body.

SHERIFF ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY, NEW MEXICO: I think the autopsy is going to be key and the toxicology.

TODD: According to the search warrant affidavit, Santa Fe firefighters found no signs of a carbon monoxide leak or poisoning in the home, but the causes of their deaths have not been confirmed. And a search warrant says the circumstances surrounding their deaths are suspicious enough in nature to require a thorough investigation.

PROF. JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, FORMER INVESTIGATOR, FULTON COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE: It is tricky because you're going to have so many eyes on this. They have to be very methodical.

GENE HACMAN, FORMER ACTOR: It's all I ever wanted to do.

TODD: Gene Hackman retired from acting more than 20 years ago, but his legendary performances transcend generations.

HACKMAN: Take a good look, Pop. I'm Buck Barrel.

TODD: It wasn't until he was in his mid 30s that he broke through in Hollywood, nominated for an Oscar for his role in Bonnie and Clyde.

Before that, he'd been in the Marines and worked odd jobs.

HACKMAN: You know, I did a lot of things. I sold shoes, I drove a truck, I drove a cab, I jerk sodas.

TODD: He won an Oscar for Best Actor playing racist, bullying cop Popeye Doyle in the 1971 film, The French Connection.

HACKMAN: All right, Popeye's here. Get your hands on your heads. Get off the bar and get on the wall.

TODD: Other storied roles would follow, as the basketball coach in Hoosiers.

HACKMAN: I don't care what the scoreboard says. At the end of the game, in my book, we're going to be winners.

TODD: As a calculating politician in the 1996 comedy, The Birdcage.

HACKMAN: Don't leave me. Don't leave me. I don't want to be the only girl not dancing.

TODD: And another Oscar nomination as a tortured but righteous FBI agent in the 1988, movie Mississippi Burning.

HACKMAN: Do you smile when the bulldozer ran over the black kid's body? Do you?

TODD: All told, five Oscar nominations, two Oscar wins for the man who didn't consider himself a star.

ANDREW FREUND, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: The thing about Gene Hackman is he really was like the everyman, and he really was put in situations in certain films that people could really identify with.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister, citing a source familiar with behind the scenes planning for this weekend's Oscars ceremony, reports that Gene Hackman will be honored at the Academy Awards presentation, but those details are still being worked out. Wolf?

BLITZER: He should be honored, a great actor indeed. All right, Brian Todd, thank you very, very much.

I want to get some analysis right now from Donell Harvin. He's the former Washington, D.C. chief. of Homeland Security and Intelligence. Donell, thanks very much for joining us. I know you have overseen very complex death investigations in the course of your career. What do you make of the fire department not seeing signs of carbon monoxide poisoning?

DONELL HARVIN, FORMER D.C. CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE: Well, when the fire department shows up, Wolf, they're taking a sample of the air as it is at that time. And so if the reports are accurate and Gene Hackman and his wife were dead for some time, who knows what the levels of carbon monoxide were at the time that they died.

Now, that's not to say that there was a carbon monoxide leak, but it's to say that carbon monoxide is generally a little bit lighter than air, which means that if there is a leak and there's some way for that air that leak to escape, then it may be completely dissipated by the time that first responders get there a few days or maybe even a week later.

[18:35:07]

BLITZER: What do you make, Donell, of the open prescription bottle and pills scattered around?

HARVIN: Yes. I know a lot's been made about that. That could be basically nothing. I mean, you know, often when people aren't feeling well, they start going to their medications and looking for something to make themselves feel better. We don't know what those prescription drugs are. And so I wouldn't put much credence into that. I've also worked crime scenes in which there was foul play at hand and individuals start to try to stage a death scene or suicide scene by sprinkling pills all over the place.

The medical examiner is not going to be fooled by that, nor a forensic investigator, so we'll get to the bottom of what that means.

BLITZER: One of the couple's dogs, as you know, also died. Two others were found alive. Two other dogs were found alive. How will the dogs factor into this investigation?

HARVIN: That's really interesting. And once again, it's quite rare that you have multiple fatalities on a scene and they're not either be foul play or some environmental issue at hand, such as carbon monoxide. And so they're looking at all those cases that there are three dogs in total. One was dead. My question would be, is that dog that deceased in the same condition of the individuals that died? Did that dog die around the same time of the other two humans and why are the other two not dead? What type of conditions are they? Are they emaciated? Are they skinny? Are they well fed? Have they had water? Just like humans, dogs can't live more than a few days without water. And we've actually seen dogs, unfortunately, start eating at the humans and when the humans pass away in the home.

So, there's a lot of questions as to the health of the dogs, and I'm sure that vets are being involved in the investigation as well.

BLITZER: I'm sure you're right. Donell Harvin, thank you very much for your expertise.

Just ahead, doctors in Texas at growing odds right now with President Trump's top health official following the nation's first measles death in a decade.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: Here in Washington, the Health and Human Services Department is silent tonight on whether Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. recommends the measles vaccine amid a deadly outbreak.

CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell has a closer look at the very concerning situation in Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT AT TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: The fact that we've allowed it to come roaring back like this in Texas is just unconscionable.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Health officials on the ground in Texas at odds with newly appointed HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. amid a bubbling measles outbreak in the western part of the state, now including the country's first death from the disease in a decade.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: There are about 20 people hospitalized mainly for quarantine.

DR. LARA JOHNSON, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, COVENANT HEALTH LUBBOCK SERVICE AREA: We don't hospitalize patients for quarantine purposes. We admit patients who need acute supportive treatment in our hospital.

KENNEDY: There have been four measles outbreaks this year in this country. Last year, there were 16. So, it's not unusual.

DR. AMY THOMPSON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, COVENANT HEALTH LUBBOCK SERVICE AREA: This is a vaccine preventable disease that we had eradicated.

TIRRELL: And that's what does make this unusual. Ever since the vaccine was introduced in 1963, cases of measles in the United States have plummeted. Getting so low, measles was declared eliminated in this country in the year 2000. And that's because two doses of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine, or MMR, are highly safe and effective.

JOHNSON: We're very lucky to have an extremely effective vaccine for measles. Having two doses of measles vaccine confers 97 percent lifetime immunity.

If you're unvaccinated, if you're around someone who has the illness, you have a 90 percent chance of.

TIRRELL: That's exactly what we've seen here, with all of the hospitalized patients in this outbreak being unvaccinated. The worry now is that with a virus this contagious, it'll continue to spread through communities where vaccination rates have dropped.

The measles virus can linger in the air for two hours after an infected person's left the room, making Texas health experts especially concerned about mass gatherings like the upcoming rodeo in Houston, which may bring together more than 100,000 people a day. And that's why local hospital officials continue to push one message.

JOHNSON: I would get a vaccine because that's going to be the best protection.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TIRRELL (on camera): You know, Wolf, somebody who is not explicitly sharing that message, saying that vaccination is the best way to prevent measles, is Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. We asked the Department of Health and Human Services multiple times today if the secretary recommends people get vaccinated against measles amid this deadly outbreak.

Finally, they responded to us ignoring that question and linking to a CDC statement, which does acknowledge that vaccination remains the best defense against measles infection, but also noting that vitamin A administration can be appropriate, which can be supportive care. We've heard from experts. That's sort of unusual to put that up there with vaccination. Wolf?

BLITZER: Meg Tirrell reporting for us, Meg, thanks very much.

Joining us now, Dr. Megan Ranney. She's an emergency physician and the dean of the Yale University School of Public Health. Dr. Ranney, thanks so much for joining us.

You heard the health secretary call the measles outbreak, and I'm quoting now, not unusual, but how concerned should we all be about this outbreak in Texas?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, DEAN, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: So, this measles outbreak is actually quite unusual, as Meg Tirrell explained, since the year 2000. Measles has been essentially eliminated from the United States.

We usually see somewhere between 50 and 100 cases a year spread across the entire United States coming almost entirely from travelers. Those cases stop after one or two transmissions, because in most communities, vaccination rates are high.

[18:45:05]

Unfortunately, in this community in West Texas, we've already seen over 120 cases. There are now cases that have spread outside of the initial community where the outbreak started. Mennonite community with very low vaccination rates. It's now moved into adjacent counties, even into New Mexico, and seems to continue to spread.

We've had over 100 cases already this year. Again, in a normal year, we have somewhere between 50 and 100 over the entire year. This is not normal.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Yeah, that's so worrisome, indeed. You mentioned the U.S. effectively eliminated measles in our country back in 2000, meaning there were basically zero cases of measles in the United States.

Why has the virus do you think made a comeback?

RANNEY: It's a great question. You know, there's a couple of things. One is there's again, always a few cases a year that are brought in by travelers, by people who are un- or under-vaccinated outside of the United States.

But again, normally those don't spread. What's making a difference here, unfortunately, is that our U.S. vaccination rates have dropped. Were now in a similar situation in some communities in the United States to what American Samoa was in about a decade ago, when they had that horrible measles outbreak that killed 83 children.

Already in West Texas, we've seen over 20 kids hospitalized, from what I understand, mostly for respiratory complications. We've seen this first death, and that's not even counting the long term effects. A measles infection destroys your short term immunity, Wolf. So kids actually often have to get repeat vaccinations or see their immunity to prior diseases disappear after they recover from measles. And in about 1 in 1,000 kids who survive measles, they get this thing

called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis that shows up a decade or more later that causes severe brain damage and disability. So we're not even going to know the effects of this outbreak for years to come.

BLITZER: It's so worrisome, indeed. Dr. Megan Ranney, thank you so much for joining us.

RANNEY: Thank you.

BLITZER: And coming up, one of President Trump's closest advisers wants to overhaul the country's air traffic control system and wants his own company to do it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:32]

BLITZER: Tonight. Elon Musk is under new scrutiny for potential conflict of interest. The billionaire adviser to President Trump pushing for one of his own companies, Starlink, to take over a critically important upgrade to the FAA's air traffic control system.

CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien is joining us right now.

Miles, what's your initial reaction to Elon Musk suggesting his Starlink company fix these aging FAA systems?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, Wolf, we have to put this in a little bit of context. The FAA modernization problem, the infrastructure problem has been about a 40-plus year slow plane wreck in the making. And we are at a situation now where there are 138 systems in the FAA's air traffic control system, fully 105 of them are considered unsustainable or nearly unsustainable, and 58 of those are considered critical.

And one of those critical items is the communication link to the radar antennas, which are oftentimes in very remote places by design, at the top of mountains, for example. And a contract that has been underway at the FAA to improve that communication with those spinning radomes has not been doing well.

L3, Harris and Verizon have been trying to deliver on that communication link, that last mile, and it has not done well.

Now, Starlink this, you know, satellite based internet connectivity is ideally suited for places like a mountain top where you don't have other broadband connections. All of this was in the works before the election. Now, of course, it has the look and feel of a big fat conflict of interest. But there is a real problem here.

BLITZER: It certainly is. In a post on X, Miles, Elon Musk wrote that the FAA assessment is single digit months to catastrophic failure, putting air traveler safety at serious risk, end quote. Is that really the case here? O'BRIEN: I -- I spoke with an expert on this system who is intimately

familiar with the radar infrastructure, and he was similarly alarmed. It is high time that we all collectively realize that the FAA is in an emergency mode right now. The infrastructure is way too old, way past due. They can't get parts. They can't get expertise.

And in this case, this piece of the puzzle is particularly critical. But each of these pieces is important. And there has to be a better way to modernize the FAA after all these years.

BLITZER: I want to play for you and for our viewers, Miles, a moment from earlier this month when Elon Musk and President Trump discussed potential conflicts in interest. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: If it comes up, how will you handle it?

ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: Well --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He won't be involved.

MUSK: Yeah, I'll recuse myself if it is.

TRUMP: If there's a conflict, he won't be involved. I mean, I wouldn't want that, and he won't want it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Would you consider this potential FAA Starlink contract a conflict of interest?

O'BRIEN: Well, if Elon Musk is directly involved, it certainly would be a conflict of interest. But I will say this -- his device, this Starlink communication device is unique, Wolf. There is not really anything that does what it does.

[18:55:02]

And so if you're trying to connect a mountaintop radome to a radar screen hundreds of miles away and you don't have that last communication link, it may be the only realistic alternative at this point because the FAA has failed to modernize over the years.

BLITZER: Miles O'Brien, thank you very much.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally tonight, a passing to note. Rose Girone, the world's oldest known Holocaust survivor, has died. She was born in 1912 into a Jewish family in what is now southeast Poland before moving to Germany as a child in 1939. She, along with her husband and newborn daughter, fled Nazi Germany, only to be forced into a Jewish ghetto in Shanghai.

Rose Girone was 113 years old. May she rest in peace and may her memory be a blessing.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. This important programming note, starting Monday, this coming Monday, THE SITUATION ROOM is expanding to two hours and moving to mornings. Joining -- join me, please, and my colleague Pamela Brown every weekday from 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon Eastern.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.