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The Situation Room

Schumer Huddles with Democrats; Education Department Begins Laying Off Nearly Half of Workforce; Canada Announces Retaliatory Tariffs; Measles Rising in Texas. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 12, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The stakes are very high. If the Senate can't pass a bill by Friday's midnight deadline, the federal government, the entire federal government, could shut down and the implications for the American people would be enormous. Let's get some more on what's going on with Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. You're a former interior secretary during the first Trump administration. So, you understand the Executive Branch and the Congressional Branch. Right now, the speaker, Mike Johnson, says Democrats are to blame if the government shuts down. But the Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House. So, why would the Democrats be to blame?

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE AND FORMER TRUMP INTERIOR SECRETARY: Well, on the House side, it's a majority. So, we pass it out, and on the Senate side, it will take 60 votes. That means you're going to have --

BLITZER: Because there could be a filibuster.

ZINKE: Absolutely. So, they're going to need some Democrat help. And as a Republican or a Democrat, well, if you vote for a government shutdown, I guess you're going to own it. And I would say Angus King, you know, a good friend, he's a senator from Maine, I think expresses it best from a Democratic point of view. He said, look, they don't like the CR, they don't like that part of the bill, but --

BLITZER: The continuing resolution?

ZINKE: Continuing resolution and this bill, but I can tell you a government shutdown is worse. So, I think the huddle is going to be pretty short. I think it will pass out of the Senate. And look, I've dealt with a government shutdown. It is not pretty. And oftentimes it hurts people that are vulnerable that shouldn't be hurt. They're not politics. They just want to go to work. And a government shutdown also gives the administration some latitude on determining what's critical and essential. If for instance our paychecks for our military, they could be set aside where military would be uncertain, and so could our border patrol agents.

BLITZER: So, a lot of Democrats say, you know what, let's pass a 30- day continuing resolution, a temporary measure, and in the process of those 30 days, have Democrats sit down with the Republicans and work out a fair and equitable compromise. Republicans are opposing that, at least for now.

ZINKE: You know, I'm open for the appropriation process. You know, the reason why we're in a CR is the House and the Senate could not pass the appropriations. On the House side, we passed all 12 out of committee, eight out of the House, the Senate was at zero. So, I am absolutely for Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution. That's past the appropriation process, and there's an opportunity.

Just because we have a continuing resolution doesn't mean we will give up on appropriations. I think if both sides come together with reasonable plans, there's room there.

BLITZER: You know, what's very worrisome to me and I'm sure to a lot of other folks out there right now are the Trump administration's proposed cuts to the Department of Education. I mean, what's more important for kids than education? Education, education, education. And not only do they want to fire thousands of employees, officials at the Department of Education, but Trump wants to completely eliminate the Department of Education. Do you agree with him?

ZINKE: Well, he's not asking for elimination of programs, he's asking for elimination and a redistribution of who actually does that. I think the states are in a better position. There's some roles and missions, though, that have to be maintained federally, but I think as far as administrating and bringing the decisions, I think they should go further to the states.

BLITZER: But you know the states don't necessarily have all the money that the federal government has to implement those kinds of programs that help poor kids, sick kids and others get the education they need.

ZINKE: That's right, but no one's talking about eliminating programs. They're eliminating the people and who can administrate them through block grants.

BLITZER: But if the people are fired, they can't implement the programs.

ZINKE: Well, Montanans can, certainly, and cross tech those responsibilities. If you look at Montana, for instance, a rural state. Oftentimes, what's concocted in Washington, D.C., when it goes out to Montana, doesn't exactly fit. So, in a lot of cases, the states are better for administering the programs. No one's talking about cutting Title I or Title IX or Title VII. It's about who's best to deliver the funds. And I think Montana or the states are.

BLITZER: So, let me just be precise. Do you support eliminating, destroying the Department of Education?

ZINKE: I support the transfer of funds going to the states where they could be administered, I think, in a better way.

BLITZER: So, is that a yes? ZINKE: Yes. Yes, if it means reconstructing --

BLITZER: Eliminating the Department of Education

ZINKE: You know, across the board, you know, you'll look at the cuts or cuts, the art is this, when you contract personnel, if you don't reorganize and have structural changes, then you're just an accordion and do this. What the art is it bring the people down right size. So, reorganize and re-administer so you don't drop services, but they're better administered.

BLITZER: You were the secretary of the interior during the first Trump administration. When you were there, did you see a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in the Department of the Interior?

ZINKE: You know, I did. I stopped the grants.

BLITZER: So, why didn't you eliminate it?

ZINKE: Well, I stopped the grants. You know, similar, but on a smaller scale, what's happening now. But the tools, I didn't have, you know, it's not my first rodeo. So, I've been in Congress --

BLITZER: Even as the secretary of the interior --

ZINKE: Even as the secretary --

BLITZER: -- you didn't have the tools to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse?

[10:35:00]

ZINKE: I didn't have the tools to look and find the detail. And this is what DOGE just did. You love him, or like him, or love to hate him, he brought in the team, U.S. Treasury employees, by the way, that were able to look not only in the files, but the details of the files. And that's what most of the press is about. Some programs are really good, I think the good programs will stay, the ones that are on the fence will be scrutinized, and the bad programs will go away.

But the amount of abuse, according to Mr. Musk, and again, they have to be confirmed, is over -- is around a trillion dollars. What we see is now, we're in the exposing phase. The next phase is, let's confirm, because there's a difference between saying a program is wasteful and making sure you go down the weeds and determine that it actually is. And then those have to be codified, and then Congress has to take action.

BLITZER: Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana, a great state indeed, thanks very much for joining us.

ZINKE: Great to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much. Just ahead, there's breaking news coming into the Situation Room. Canada just announcing retaliatory tariffs against the United States. The item's impact could affect you. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BLITZER: All right. There's more breaking news coming in the Situation Room right now as well. Canada is retaliating against the United States with a 25 percent tariff on some $20 billion worth of American goods imported into Canada. And Canadian officials are not mincing any words in their response to the Trump administration. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIE JOLY, CANADIAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: This is much more than about our economy. It is about the future of our country. Canadian sovereignty and identity are non-negotiable.

FRANCOIS-PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE, CANADIAN MINISTER OF INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND INDUSTRY: This needs to stop. This is hurtful for workers. This is hurtful for industry. This is hurtful for the competitiveness of North America. Canadian steel and aluminum are essential for North America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The former U.S. Ambassador to Canada and the former Michigan Governor James Blanchard is joining us right now here in the Situation Room. What's your reaction to what's going on? I mean, for me, as a kid growing up in Western New York, Buffalo, on the border with Canada, it's hard for me to believe that U.S.-Canadian relations are in a crisis like they are right now.

FMR. GOV. JAMES BLANCHARD (D-MI), FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CANADA AND PARTNER, DLA PIPER: Yes, it's really goofy stuff. It's totally unnecessary. Our relations with Canada today are the worst in modern history. It's not just tariffs, it's the constant insults by the White House calling that the 51st state. It's the vice president saying that in the last few decades, Canada has treated us very badly.

We've had this fabulous partnership and alliance all my life, and it's been seriously damaged this last month a half, two months.

BLITZER: It's not just the tariffs, it's also the vocal, the verbal statements. When you hear the president or the vice president refer to the prime minister of Canada, and you were the U.S. ambassador to Canada, as a governor, as if Canada is a 51st state, what do you think?

BLANCHARD: Well, it's an insult to Canada. Canadians find that as insulting as tariffs. The tariffs, of course, are totally unnecessary and are going to be inflationary and harmful. But yes, I mean, to say you're a 51st state is like saying you don't count. You're an appendage to us.

No, it -- everything they're doing is -- appears to be designed to destroy our fabulous relationship. I'm spending more time on Canadian television and radio telling the Canadians that the White House does not speak for 90 percent of Americans. That Canada is our most reliable, trusted, and best ally. It isn't just the economy and autos, I grew up in Detroit, or agriculture, it's cultural. It's relatives. It's tourism. It's everything.

BLITZER: Yes. I mean, it's really crazy when you think about it.

BLANCHARD: Yes.

BLITZER: When you hear Trump say, this isn't really a trade war that he's launched against Canada, it's a drug war that he's launched because of the illegal drugs pouring into the United States, he says, from Canada.

BLANCHARD: Yes. Fentanyl, less than 1 percent. There are probably are more drugs going north and guns going north. By the way, in terms of migrants, I think there are more people going north these days than south. This whole trade dispute is a manufactured dispute. It's made up. It's make-believe.

We have a manufacturing surplus with Canada, by the way. We have an auto surplus with Canada. The only deficit we have with Canada is energy. And we want that energy. Canadian natural gas hates homes in Detroit. We want -- we have been an energy self-sufficient, Wolf, since the first term of Barack Obama. Mr. Trump says we have an energy emergency? No, he may cause one. No, we're energy self-sufficient. It's growing.

Everything we do with Canada has been a positive relationship. We're going to cut the ribbon on a new modern bridge in Detroit, the Gordie Howe International Bridge next fall. That is going to be a celebration of our relationship, both families and tourism, agriculture, autos, manufacturing. We have an integrated economy with Canada, and we also have an integrated cultural relationship as well.

BLITZER: People don't necessarily appreciate, including people who live on the border with Canada, how much electrical power, for example, emerges from Canada into the United States and helps Americans. And in Michigan, in New York, and other states as well.

[10:45:00]

BLANCHARD: Yes. And New England, by the way. Quebec could shut down New England, Hydro-Quebec. Yes. But you know, one thing too, people don't realize that Michigan is an agricultural state. We export billions and billions of dollars of agricultural products.

BLITZER: What kind of agricultural products?

BLANCHARD: Fruits and vegetables. They're grown principally all along our western shore. It's huge. And those products go to Canada and they also go overseas. It's billions and billions, and we have, again, a trade surplus in agriculture with Canada.

The other thing I want to mention is back when our auto companies were in trouble you and I, we've dealt with this a few times.

BLITZER: Right.

BLANCHARD: But in 2009, when Barack Obama crammed down administrative bankruptcy for General Motors and Chrysler to help them stay alive during the financial crisis, Canada also contributed to that. Both Ontario and the federal government. So, they were there when we needed them. When 9/11 hit us, the first ambassador in NATO to call our ambassador was the Canadian ambassador. Say, what can we do to help?

This is an alliance my entire life and yours, and we cannot let the White House, Mr. Trump, put it asunder. We just cannot allow it. And at some point, members of the Senate are going to have to stand up and say, enough is enough.

BLITZER: You think that's going to happen?

BLANCHARD: At some point I think it will. But, you know, one of the problems is they're afraid to talk.

BLITZER: Well, they're Republicans.

BLANCHARD: Yes, yes. I mean, the Democrats are going to say that all day long, but they're in the minority. We are in the minority, in the House and Senate. But, you know, what's interesting is when Mr. Trump gave his speech to Congress recently, he said, I brought back free speech, which is kind of a weird statement. There is no free speech with Republican senators right now. They're afraid to talk. They're afraid to talk and afraid to be honest about our relations with Canada or with Ukraine.

Look at -- they're cozying up to Putin. This is outrageous. I was with some German diplomats the other day and they say, we just don't think we can ever rely on the word of the United States anymore. And our NATO allies, as you know, are gathering together to figure out how to deal with this new reality, which is kind of on-again, off-again politics.

It's -- you know, the Canadian people deserve better, the Ukrainians deserve better, our allies in Europe deserve better, and so does Mexico. And our leaders in Congress are going to have to stand up for the right things, for our time-honored traditions that have preserved the peace all of my life and all of yours.

BLITZER: Yes. Canada has been our number one ally all of these years, and our best neighbor as well. Governor Blanchard -- or Ambassador Blanchard, I don't know what to call you, thanks so much for joining us.

BLANCHARD: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

BLITZER: And coming up, with measles cases rising big time in Texas right now, I'll ask a vaccine expert on the role they play in stopping the spread of this highly contagious virus. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:50:00]

BLITZER: New this morning, the measles outbreak that started in West Texas is growing. It has now spread to at least three states, with more than 250 confirmed cases. Experts say these numbers are likely a severe undercount. Joining us now, Dr. Peter Hotez, co-director of the Texas Children's Hospital Center for vaccine development. He's also professor and dean of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. Dr. Hotez, as usual, thanks so much for joining us. Do you expect the outbreak to continue to grow?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT AND PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Yes. Well, Wolf, because every Tuesday and Friday we get updates and the numbers are always going up. And remember, the incubation period, the time from when you're infected with the virus until you show symptoms is just under two weeks.

So, anytime the number goes up, you know, the -- this epidemic keeps evergreening, meaning it'll continue to rise for at least another two weeks. So, this will certainly last, at a minimum, to the end of this month and likely well into the spring unfortunately.

BLITZER: What do you say to those people who are reluctant to get a vaccine to deal with the measles?

DR. HOTEZ: Well, you know, this is a serious virus illness. 20 percent of kids typically require hospitalization either because of measles, pneumonia or neurological symptoms, including encephalitis or deafness, ocular involvement, dehydration due to severe diarrhea. Measles is a bad actor. And up until a few years ago, measles was the single leading killer of children globally.

And in a cause of severe illness in adults, adults don't do well with measles, particularly pregnant women. So, that's the word to get out is how awful, awful this disease is. And yet, the -- our MMR vaccine for measles, mumps, rubella is one of the most effective and safest vaccines there is.

BLITZER: Yes, it is. I want to get your reaction, Dr. Hotez, to what the health and human services secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. told Fox Nation recently about the measles outbreak here in the U.S. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: There's a lot of poverty in that area. The food is kind of a food desert. The best thing that Americans can do is to keep themselves healthy. It's very, very difficult for measles to kill a healthy person. Nutrition is absolutely critical, and we need to eat good foods. We need to eat whole foods. We need to get plenty of exercise. And we see a correlation between people who get hurt by measles and people who are -- who don't have good nutrition or who don't have a good exercise regimen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:55:00]

BLITZER: I want to note, Dr. Hotez, that the Texas Department of Health says that the young girl who died from measles had no, repeat, no underlying conditions. What's your reaction to what the secretary is now saying?

DR. HOTEZ: Well, I think it's misleading. Certainly no one would argue for healthy nutrition and exercise, but that's besides the point. The single most important thing to do is to be vaccinated because all the nutrition in the world and all the exercise in the world will not give you virus neutralizing antibodies against the measles virus. So, that has to be the message.

And so, when the secretary, you know, says things like, you know, giving vitamin A or castor oil or all of the other things he talks about it, it sends the wrong message because it doesn't explain to parents the overwhelming importance of getting vaccinated. And sure, all those other things are fine as well. And measles does do worse in the setting of severe malnutrition. But still -- it still can cause serious illness and even death, even in kids like this one, unfortunately, had no underlying issues.

BLITZER: Dr. Peter Hotez, as usual, thank you very much. Coming up, in 30 minutes, a prominent Palestinian activist case heads to federal court. The First Amendment concerns now being raised. We'll have details. Stay with us.

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