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The Situation Room

Interview With Former U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers; Trump Asks For Military Options For Panama Canal; Johns Hopkins University Laying Off 2,000 Workers Due to DOGE Cuts. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired March 14, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:32:58]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Medical research giant Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore says it is laying off more than 2,000 workers after it lost $800 million in funding from USAID.

The move is part of the Trump administration's efforts to shrink the federal government. So far, more than 100,000 federal workers have been fired or laid off.

Joining us now is CNN medical analyst and professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University here in Washington Dr. Jonathan Reiner.

Dr. Reiner, thanks so much for joining us.

What's your reaction to these enormous cuts to Johns Hopkins University, which is involved an enormous amount of research to help people, not only in the U.S., but around the world?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, this is what happens when the government makes indiscriminate cuts, not looking at programs, just cutting funding across the board.

And Hopkins is just basically the greatest example of this. So Hopkins is the nation's really leading research organization. And they get over $100 million -- they get actually almost $1 billion a year of funding from NIH. And they -- and, as you mentioned, they get hundreds of millions of dollars in support for programs around the world from USAID, programs like reducing tuberculosis in sub-Saharan Africa, reducing HIV in India.

These programs are immensely important for people around the world. And they're basically an example of soft American diplomacy. And when we cut these programs, we're going to make the world less safe, not just for the folks in those countries, but for America.

When there's more tuberculosis in Africa, more tuberculosis comes to the United States. If there is an Ebola outbreak in Uganda, which there is now, and we don't have people on the ground to help contain that, it endangers the health of America.

[11:35:10] So these kinds of cuts will not just have an impact on research at an institution like that. It has very tangible effects on the ground, both abroad and in the United States.

BLITZER: Johns Hopkins University released a statement about these cuts, saying the employees impacted -- and I'm quoting now from the statement -- had worked -- quote -- "to care for mothers and infants, fight disease, provide clean drinking water, and advance countless other critical lifesaving efforts around the world."

How concerned should Americans be about this?

REINER: Very concerned.

First of all, the measure of a great nation is how we treat the least of us, both here and abroad. And these programs, improving the quality of water, improving the quality of food, developing point of care, immediate COVID-like tests to detect tuberculosis, these are the kinds of things that improve the quality of life for people around the world, enhance the reputation of the United States, and prevent death.

Why would we want to indiscriminately cut this? The president and this administration has said that USAID was run by radical left lunatics. But this kind of work is completely apolitical, and it's the kind of work that should be supported by taxpayers in this country and by this government.

BLITZER: It saves a lot of lives out there.

On another sensitive issue, while I have you, Dr. Reiner, as you know, measles outbreaks are growing and growing in West Texas and New Mexico.

REINER: Yes. Yes.

BLITZER: What kind of long-term impact could this disease have on those infected?

REINER: So, in measles -- every year we do see measles outbreaks, but we haven't seen an outbreak like this in quite a while. And we haven't seen a death. There have been two deaths from measles in this outbreak, one in Texas and one in New Mexico.

The more this -- these outbreaks are uncontained, the more this virus then becomes present in the community. In 2000, there was no community spread of measles. The disease was felt to be eradicated in the United States, the only occasional case somebody who came into the United States.

But as our vaccination levels have dropped, the ability of the virus to spread in communities has increased. And in West Texas, where fully almost 20 percent of kids are unvaccinated, it's basically a high target environment for this virus. And it will continue to spread.

And vaccination rates have dropped because misinformation about this vaccine has been spread really viciously over the last 10 to 15 years. And we need to reeducate the public that this vaccine has 60 years of safety and efficacy data to support it. This is a safe and effective vaccine.

BLITZER: Certainly is.

All right, Dr. Jonathan Reiner of the George Washington University, thanks, as always, for joining us.

And we will be right back.

REINER: Thank you, Wolf.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:42:48]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: The credible military options, that's what the Trump administration is asking the Pentagon for regarding the Panama Canal. This is according to a new memo sent to senior military leaders and reviewed by CNN.

Trump has repeatedly insisted that the U.S. needs to reclaim the canal, including during his recent speech before Congress. However, he's now formally requesting military options to ensure fair and unfettered U.S. military and commercial access to the Panama Canal.

CNN Zachary Cohen broke the story, joins us now with the latest.

So, in your reporting, we should note that this would be a major shift in Pentagon priorities. right?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: It would.

And this memo overall really does represent a major overhaul of the Pentagon's priorities, all of them really. It's really a focus on -- a refocusing on the Western Hemisphere and on China, but this is -- these options that Trump and the White House are asking for as far as it relates to the Panama Canal really jumps out as a specific shift in really trying to direct the military's focus on issues that Trump has spoken about publicly.

We know that Trump has talked about this need to reclaim control of the Panama Canal, even as recently as during his speech to Congress earlier this month. And, look, this order and this directive that was sent to Pentagon officials makes very clear that they formally now and immediately must provide credible military options to ensure fair and unfettered U.S. military and commercial access to the Panama Canal, so not really mincing any words there.

And this is something that has kind of caused confusion already with the Panamanian government. In fact, the president there has already said that this has not come up in any of his conversations with Trump officials. So -- but, clearly the Pentagon now being directed to take formal steps in terms of preparing these options for potential military action. Or it remains to be seen what that looks like or what circumstances would require that. There's no real indication U.S. ships, American ships have had trouble navigating the Panama Canal, military or otherwise.

BROWN: Right. Yes, that's sort of one of the big questions here.

Zach Cohen, thank you so much -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Excellent reporting from Zach.

Thanks very much, Zach.

Coming up: more cracks in the U.S. economy. We're going to ask former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers about the very real concerns of so many Americans right now.

That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:49:50]

BLITZER: There's more breaking news we're following here in the situation.

A new report just out, out this morning, shows more cracks in the U.S. economy, with consumer confidence falling sharply, down to its lowest level in more than two years. According to the University of Michigan survey, Americans are increasingly worried by President Trump's frequently changing economic policies and the threat of tariffs, making products from around the world even more expensive to U.S. consumers here in the United States.

[11:50:19]

BROWN: So let's bring in former U.S. Treasury Secretary under President Clinton Larry Summers.

Thank you for coming on.

I first want to get your reaction to this new report. Are consumers right to be this concerned about the economy?

LAWRENCE SUMMERS, FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Yes, they're completely right.

This is like being in the back of a car where the driver is weaving wildly. You're scared about what's going to come next. And they're absolutely right, given what this could mean for higher prices, given what this could mean for reduced investment, given what this could mean in terms of retaliation from other countries.

I think we're only in the second inning of our problems, unless the president and his administration make a radical change in course.

BLITZER: How concerned are you, Mr. Secretary, that the U.S. potentially is heading for a recession?

SUMMERS: I thought, at the beginning of the year, before the president was inaugurated, that the risks of recession were 10 or 15 percent. I now think they're very close to half and rising every day.

So we are taking a very substantial risk of recession. The best prospect we have for avoiding recession is a change in policy direction away from random, fluctuating impositions of tariffs, away from threats to the rule of law in terms of federal spending, away from threats to the rule of law in terms of the persecution of particular individuals and companies.

If we stay on the current policy path with the current policy approach, I think the odds of recession get to be very high. I still hope that a combination of a strong judiciary, a Congress that would be able to find its voice, a clamor from public opinion and market signals will get the administration to change course.

But if that doesn't happen, we are headed back towards stagflation with both recession and rising prices that will be much more serious than what we are seeing today.

BROWN: And because of that concern, a lot of Americans are wondering what to do with their money right now. Should they -- if they're looking to buy a home, should they buy a home? What should they do? Stock markets, they are bouncing back today, we should note.

But it seems it has been a brutal stretch. Here it is on the screen. How should Americans who have money in the stock market, for example, say in a retirement account, respond to all of this?

SUMMERS: It's a scary time and it's a difficult time.

But, by and large, the experience is that people who go changing their portfolios all around, changing their stocks all around when they get nervous end up losing more money than they gain by what they're giving to the pros on the in and out. So I'd argue that people should set a course for their long-term finances and not try to change it on a day- to-day basis.

But the course I'd set right now would be a more cautious, less risk- taking course than the one I would have set a few months ago. And, certainly, it's a time when people want to make sure that they have got cash for different contingencies, because that's what could happen.

Look, it's a sign of the amount of uncertainty that's being created that, amidst everything else, the asset that's done well is gold. And that's what people do when they don't have confidence in the people who are managing the country's currency. And that is, unfortunately, what we're seeing from the administration.

I do hope that it will change. I hope that what's happening in markets will teach a valuable lesson. There was a CEO survey this week done at Yale that showed probably, if anything, even more anxiety than consumers are showing. Perhaps that news will reach the administration.

But this is a time when we need to stop driving the car the way we have been driving it, or we will be headed for a serious accident.

[11:55:08]

BLITZER: Larry Summers, thank you very much for joining us.

BROWN: Yes, thank you so much, Secretary.

BLITZER: And, to our viewers thanks very much for joining us as well.

You can keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer, @PamelaBrownCNN.

We will see you back here Monday and every weekday morning for our expanded two-hour SITUATION ROOM. We're on Monday through Friday 10:00 a.m. to noon Eastern.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend Dana Bash is next right after a short break.

Have a great weekend.