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The Situation Room

Trump Administration Setting Off Constitutional Crisis?; Israel Resumes Airstrikes on Gaza; Putin and Trump Speak. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired March 18, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:26]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news: crucial conversation. The Kremlin says President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin are set to speak this morning. Of course, we are following the very latest on that phone call with global implications.

I'm Pamela Brown.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: And we begin this hour with that breaking news. President Trump and Vladimir Putin are set to speak this morning, according to the Kremlin. Trump is set to get Russia to sign, trying, at least, to get Russia to sign on to a deal for a cease-fire in the brutal Ukraine war. Ukraine says it's already on board.

CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny is at the White House, and CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour is in London.

Jeff, to kick it off with you, so the Kremlin also says this call is part of a larger dialogue between the two leaders. What are we expecting from it?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, we do know that President Trump and Vladimir Putin have been speaking for about an hour or so, we are told, this according to White House Deputy Chief of Staff Dan Scavino, who tweeted this just a short time ago.

He says the call is going well. Of course, we will have to see exactly what this conversation entails. But this comes just about a month after their first phone conversation since the president's return to power. And so much is on the line here.

Of course, important to note, Ukraine is not a part of this phone call, but they are, of course, a part of the outcome of this. At issue is exactly what Russia is going to get, some would say what Russia is going to take from Ukraine in terms of land mass, in terms of other electrical power centers and assets.

So central here is what President Trump is going to try and get from Vladimir Putin, if anything at all. That has been really the underscored point of this conversation. He's been nothing but susceptible to flattery from Vladimir Putin. He's been nothing but essentially trying to lift him up back up on the foreign stage, where he had been ostracized for more than three years after invading Ukraine.

But this phone call is so key to the next step in this. Will there be some type of a temporary cease-fire? Of course, the U.S. and Ukraine reached a deal over a cease-fire, but so far Russia is not a party to that.

BROWN: All right, Jeff, thanks for that.

Christiane, to bring you in on this, Putin has said he wanted conditions on any cease-fire, including no new arms to Ukraine. What is his position in going into this meeting with Trump?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, clearly, Jeff says Putin hasn't been any part of it. Putin has rejected formally at the press conference last week, basically rejected it as it is now presented, so -- because he attached a huge list of conditions, which for Ukraine and for the Europeans who have been supporting Ukraine have been nonnegotiable.

In other words, Putin wants a total victory. He wants (AUDIO GAP) Ukraine. He wants Ukraine practically without its own military, much less in NATO. And he essentially wants a pliant new government in Ukraine. Now, President Trump has posted publicly that it's going to be a talk about how to end this and also how to deal with assets, including power plants.

None of us knows exactly what that means. The Ukrainians are worried about what that means, because there's also demands by Russia on Ukrainian land that hasn't even fallen to Russia, for instance, Odesa, the key southern port, et cetera.

[11:05:07]

So this is going to be quite crucial, as you heard from H.R. McMaster before, that no one should fall into Putin's very time-tested, road- tested ability to pull the wool over just about everybody's eyes, or to just keep stalling this. So I think that's going to be a very big issue.

In the meantime, of course, the Europeans are watching and waiting to see how -- what pieces of this they're going to have to pick up.

BROWN: Right, because, of course, they're not part of this conversation. Neither is Ukraine, although Ukraine has agreed to the cease-fire, this temporary one, without conditions.

But, realistically, does Ukraine have any say in a deal at this point? You heard President Trump talk about, we're going to talk about land and so forth.

AMANPOUR: Pamela, of course, they do. They have been fighting since 2014. From their own voices, from the leadership down to the soldiers on the field, they say they're not going to surrender. They have been fighting since 2014 against an illegal and unprovoked invasion by Russia and an annexation of Crimea.

Now, obviously, at a bigger peace conference, there will have to be some sort of compromises, presumably whether they're temporary or permanent, even some land compromises. But we're just talking about a cease-fire now, Pamela. We're not talking about a peace plan...

BROWN: Exactly.

AMANPOUR: ... that Vladimir Putin so far has rejected, Ukraine accepted, which was an unconditional temporary cease-fire. Putin has not yet. He may analysts are wondering whether -- of course, he doesn't want to alienate Trump, nor does he want to make Trump angry. He's thrilled that President Trump, after three years-plus of Putin being essentially in the diplomatic wilderness, has been brought back formally into the world fold.

Trump has talked about new economic ties with Russia, new diplomatic ties. He's even potentially floated before any peace deal lifting of certain sanctions. And he's also, as you know, instructed the U.S. to vote with Russia, I mean, unprecedented, radical vote at the U.N. this time. with Russia.

BROWN: Yes, can't forget that.

AMANPOUR: So all of this is manna from heaven for Russia. So they need to figure out how to how to keep this and not alienate Trump.

But Putin doesn't want this cease-fire because he's already said he wants to talk about the final settlement and he wants to go back to the root causes, which means his business about NATO and how Ukraine isn't a viable country on its own. It's part of greater Russia.

So all of this is right now a huge hurdle to overcome and we will wait to see what happens. In the meantime, it's really important to understand that this is so radical, the new Trump foreign policy towards its former allies, that they're wondering whether the U.S. is going to stay on side.

And here, whether it's Prime Minister Keir Starmer in France, whether it's Macron, they are trying to do what they know they have to do, and that they fill in the gaps military and potentially diplomatically.

BROWN: I think your context is so important about just the shifting policy here. And it really raises the question, does the U.S. now, the Trump administration look at Russia now as an ally, versus an adversary, which it has been for so many decades?

It's just -- it is really stunning kind of where we find ourselves here. So we will continue to report out what happens with this call.

Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much.

BLITZER: And there's more breaking news this hour. Gaza's already very fragile cease-fire is now shattered.

Israel resumed deadly airstrikes on the enclave overnight. The Palestinian Health Ministry says more than 400 people have been killed and hundreds more wounded. It's the deadliest day in Gaza in more than 15 months. An Israeli official says the attack targeted middle-level Hamas commanders, but one resident tells CNN the only victims he's seen are civilians.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Since 2:00 in the morning, we have been collecting the remains of people from the streets. They are all civilians, children. We have been pulling the remains of children since this morning.

There are many injuries and martyrs who have reached the hospitals, and we are still collecting the remains of people, hands and feet. There was no prior warning. It all happened unexpectedly. And people were in their homes, not even outside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: An Israeli official says the strikes are the first in a series of escalating military actions, but adds it could all stop if, if Hamas agrees to release more hostages. '

[11:10:00]

BROWN: And joining us now and his debut as a CNN global affairs analyst is Brett McGurk. He was the National Security Council coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa under President Biden and, very importantly for this conversation, Brett, you were the lead U.S. negotiator on the Israel-Hamas hostage deal.

So you really have the authority to talk about this. Look, these peace talks, they have stalled for, I believe, almost a month. What do you think, though, about the timing here of Israel renewing these deadly attacks and basically restarting the war?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, first, it's great to be here.

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. It's sad. It's tragic. I think the objective has to remain getting these hostages out. There are still 25 living hostages inside Gaza. We were very fortunate to get that deal done at the end of the Biden administration. Worked very closely with Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff.

We were able to get 25 living hostages out of Gaza, had a cease-fire in place really until last night. I think the objective, as I understand it here, is to put pressure back on Hamas to come back to the table and release hostages.

The bottom line here, and H.R. said this as well, if Hamas were to release hostages and agree to an endgame to ultimately relinquish power in Gaza, this war is over. And you have a process for peace in Gaza that is being developed in Egypt with the Arab partners. But Hamas so far -- and I was in these negotiations.

And Hamas, for a year, they never gave any indication of care, concern for Gazans, the tragedy you just saw on the screen. But there is an endgame here. And the way we structured this deal was for phase two, which we should be in right now, a long-term process, release hostages over time, but also negotiate the ultimate end to the war in Gaza, which means Hamas has to relinquish its authority.

BROWN: It's interesting, because Israel has given different explanations for why they renewed these attacks, saying Hamas wasn't turning over hostages. They -- another official claimed without evidence that Hamas was gearing up for its own attack, so this was preemptive.

But you're saying that really the objective here is for -- to get Hamas back to the table. Do you know that for -- but do you know that, just given your position and having so many connections...

(CROSSTALK)

MCGURK: Well, Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, spent seven -- I feel for him because I went through this same process.

BROWN: Yes.

MCGURK: Spent seven hours in Doha with the Arabs, with the mediators, came up with a very good proposal. The Israelis accepted it. Hamas came back three days later. They said they accepted it, but, in fact, what Hamas does, is they actually insert all these poison pills, conditions Israel can never accept.

So the talks are very much stalled. I hope the objective here of this military campaign is to get back to the table, get the hostages out. That has to be the objective. Otherwise, it just goes on endlessly.

BROWN: Let me ask you about that, because the hostage families are very upset about this. They're upset with Netanyahu. Hamas official there is saying that this is a death sentence for the hostages. How much, in your view, does this lower the chances of bringing those 25 remaining living hostages back?

MCGURK: Again, I have been very close to this. The onus here is on Hamas. Hamas is holding hostages, and they can release the hostages and have a cease-fire. It's really as simple as that.

They come up with every excuse in the book. Their goal is to remain in power in Gaza. We set up a structured process, and the negotiations have been going on now for Hamas ultimately to relinquish its authority. The Arabs are now talking about actually putting in their Arab force

in Gaza, having an interim plan to actually rebuild Gaza, restore Gaza, but the precondition for that is Hamas relinquishing its authority. If it doesn't do that, the tragic reality of this is, is, this is going to go on forever.

And, remember, we have an American citizen, Edan Alexander, from Long Island, still held in the tunnels of Gaza. I have talked to these hostages that have come out over the last month, and they told me what it was like over 440 days with their captors.

BROWN: What did they say?

MCGURK: And their captors never showed one ounce of humanity or care, not just for the hostages, but for the people of Gaza.

This is the tragic reality. Hamas is holding not only the Israeli- American hostages. They're holding the people of Gaza hostage. So there is a process here to actually get out of this. It is a negotiation, but Hamas has to be under pressure. And I hope that's what the objective of this campaign is starting again.

BROWN: Listen to what Trump's Middle East envoy told CNN over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: The Hamas proposal is a nonstarter. I'm not going to go into the specific details of what made it unacceptable, but it was totally unacceptable.

I think there's an opportunity for them, but the opportunity is closing fast. I would encourage Hamas to get much more sensible than how they have been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I wonder what your reaction is to that. Witkoff says that Hamas demands -- Hamas demands are unacceptable. What do you think about that in terms of trying to get this war to end? What does Hamas need to do?

MCGURK: I think, look, I know Steve. I have great respect for Steve. He has a heart. He's determined. He wants to get this done. But he's coming up to the same obstacles we faced.

Hamas is not serious about ending the war and releasing hostages. And without some military pressure on Hamas, they actually don't give any concessions to try to get this over with. Look, there is a proposal here in what Hamas wants, the war's over, they get to stay in power, have a full all-for-all prisoner exchange.

That's not going to happen after October 7. That's just not reality. So you have to have a negotiation, and it takes pressure on Hamas to have this, to make this work. I think Steve is right, and he's experiencing it right now. He spent seven hours there, came up with a proposal. Israel agreed. Hamas did not agree.

[11:15:13]

And at the end of the day, it's a hostage negotiation. I mean, what are you talking about here? Release the hostages. You can have peace in Gaza. It's kind of as simple as that.

BLITZER: The hostages are Hamas' great leverage point. I don't -- I suspect they're not ready to release them, because what do they have after they release? What advantage do they have in the negotiations?

MCGURK: Well, Wolf, we did succeed in November of 2023, got 105 hostages out. We finally got this hostage deal in place in January 20 of the last year, got another 25 living hostages out. There are 25 living hostages left.

I think there is a deal here that can be had. It has to be structured. It has to be kind of put in place over time. We have hostages coming out every week, but, ultimately, ultimately, you have to have Hamas relinquish its authority over Gaza.

Frankly, the Arabs agree with that behind closed doors. And they have to put more pressure on Hamas to do that. I just -- that is the only way that this is really going to end.

BLITZER: I will be surprised when they release all the hostages, because that removes a lot of their leverage, but let's hope.

BROWN: Let's hope, for sure, for their families.

Brett McGurk, thank you.

MCGURK: Thank you so much.

BLITZER: And still ahead: judicial showdown. President Trump's border czar now says -- and I'm quoting -- "I don't care what the judges think."

As the administration seeks to bypass a court order, is a constitutional crisis, is it brewing?

BROWN: And then later: sticker shock. Just how much more could you pay for a car under President Trump's tariffs?

We will break down the numbers ahead live in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:21:17]

BROWN: Well, we are just minutes from a noon deadline in the Trump White House's latest showdown with the judiciary.

BLITZER: A federal judge, Pamela, is demanding more information after the administration deported hundreds of alleged Venezuelan gang members using wartime powers, despite a court order not to do so. And that order is drawing fire from senior administration officials.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: There's not one clause in that law that makes it subject to judicial review, let alone district court review. The district court has no ability to in any way restrain the president's authorities under the Alien Enemies Act or his ability to conduct a foreign affairs in the United States.

This judge violated the law. He violated the Constitution. He defied the system of government that we have in this country.

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: We're not stopping. I don't care what the judges think. I don't care what the left thinks. We're coming.

JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The administration may continue doing these flights?

PAM BONDI (R), FORMER FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, joining us now is seen in senior legal analyst and former state and federal prosecutor Elie Honig.

Hi, Elie.

So we should also note the president is now calling for this judge's impeachment. Bottom line, does the White House have any authority to ignore the outcome of judicial review from a co-equal branch of government?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No, they don't Pam.

And we're going to find out within the next 40 minutes or so whether that's what happened on this deportation case relating to the Venezuelan gang members. The judge in this case, the district court judge in Washington, D.C., has said that, by noon today, I want from you, the Justice Department, a minute-by-minute accounting of what happened on Saturday.

Now, Saturday is the day the judge issued his order saying those planes should not take off, and if they have taken off, they should be turned around. The judges demanded from DOJ, I want to know exactly where those planes were at each moment, and because I want to determine whether you have intentionally defied my order or perhaps through recklessness, Pam.

So that is a key component of our system here. The executive branch, the president is not at liberty to disregard an order of the court.

BROWN: Can I just follow up with you too? Because we just played the clip of Stephen Miller, who was on CNN yesterday, and he said, there is no clause in that law that makes it subject to judicial review.

But most laws don't have a clause saying whether or not it's subject to judicial review, right?

HONIG: Yes, that's what we would call a straw man argument. He's setting up something that doesn't ordinarily exist.

Laws don't usually say, this law is or is not subject to judicial review. And then he's knocking it down. The point that Stephen Miller was making very imperfectly was that they are going to make this argument called justiciability, meaning they're going to argue that you, the courts, do not actually have the right to review what the president has done here.

That's a real legal doctrine. In fact, the Supreme Court has in some occasions applied that and said we, the courts, are not able to review what the president has done here. The problem with the way Stephen Miller presented it was that he presented from a point of view of, we believe that's the case, therefore, we're right.

Of course, it's not up to Stephen Miller. It ultimately is up to the courts.

BLITZER: Elie, we're also getting some new details now in another very high-profile deportation case over the weekend.

A source tells CNN that Brown University Assistant Professor and Dr. Rasha Alawieh, who was deported to Lebanon over the weekend, told immigration officials that she had attended the funeral of former Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Does this development change things?

HONIG: Well, it could, Wolf.

And we have a similar issue in this case as to the prior case, which is there are questions about whether DOJ defied a court's order in this case too. That said, DOJ went on record with this judge and said, we do not believe we defied you. DOJ then provided some details to the judge, who seemingly was satisfied, because that judge postponed a hearing in the case relating to the Brown University doctor.

[11:25:17]

Now, one thing that's really important to keep in mind with all of these immigration cases is, they're not criminal cases. And so we're used to due process in criminal cases. We're used to prosecutors spelling out, here's our allegation, here's our proof.

A lot of that does not exist by design in the immigration context with respect to the immigration laws that we have out there. So you hear a detail about the Brown University case where her phone was looked at, for example, by immigration authorities at the airport. That would be highly questionable in a criminal case, how that came about.

But in an immigration case, both the immigration authorities and the president do have way more authority and the law puts less requirement on them to explain what they have done and why they have done it.

BLITZER: Elie Honig, thanks for your expertise. Appreciate it very much.

HONIG: Thank you both.

BLITZER: Up next: The Democratic Party is doing some major soul- searching right now, as a new CNN poll shows just how far they have fallen out of favor.

The veteran Democratic strategist James Carville, standing by live, he will join us to discuss the future of his party.

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