Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Healthiest Cooking Oil?; Will Trump Tariffs Raise Car Prices?; Interview With James Carville. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired March 18, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:59]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: New this morning, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is defending himself amid very angry backlash from Democrats over his vote for a Trump-backed bill to fund the government and keep it open.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I'm the best leader for the Senate. We have a lot of leaders. You know, when you don't have a president, there's not one leader of the party. There are lots of them. We have a lot of good people.

But we -- I am the best at keep -- winning Senate seats. I have done it in 2005 to -- just in 2020, no one thought we'd take back the Senate. Under my leadership, we took it. So we now are executing.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUMER: No, no, we have a great -- we're moving forward. Hakeem and I have a plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's get some analysis right now from Democratic strategist James Carville.

James, thanks for joining us.

Schumer says he has a plan, you just heard it, that he's not going anywhere.

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes.

BLITZER: But he's losing the confidence of a lot of his own members. Is it time, do you think, for Democrats to sideline Schumer and find a new leader in the U.S. Senate?

CARVILLE: Well, I'm not a senator. I'm not involved with it.

But I think we got to wait and see. I think this might be a smart vote. You know, it's not true, but apocryphal, when supposedly Henry Kissinger asked Zhou Enlai, the Chinese premier, what were the effects of the French Revolution? And he said, well, it's too early to tell.

And I think the wisdom or not of this vote is going to play out, because we're going to have so many points here, the debt ceiling extension, reconciliation, the tax cuts, and maybe just Democrats would be able to say, look, we did everything we could.

This might turn out to be a wiser decision than people think, but it's too early to tell.

BLITZER: As you know, James, that the Democratic base is clearly angry with Senator Schumer right now. Can he recover?

CARVILLE: Sure.

I'm mad at the Democratic Party. I mean, you see -- look, when you lose an election -- a party exists for one reason and one reason only, and that is to win the election. We lost. But there's nothing permanent about this.

Yes, I remind people Wisconsin Supreme Court is coming up. We have got a huge Virginia governor's race. They have legislative challenges. And I do think that Senator Schumer is right. I think he and Leader Jeffries do have a plan in place. And, look, if this is not evident here in the next three or four months, then there will be a uprising within the Democratic Party.

But I think we should give them a chance to -- let's see what their plan and their strategy is.

BLITZER: Let's see what they're ready to do.

All of this comes, James, as voters clearly are deeply dissatisfied with the Democratic Party as a whole. According to a new CNN poll, and I assume you saw it, just 29 percent view the Democratic Party favorably. That's an all-time low.

What does this say about your party right now?

CARVILLE: Don't lose an election, because Democrats will get mad at you.

I don't even like the Democratic Party. I do not like losing. And most Democrats feel the same way. If we start winning elections, that's going to come back. And there's all kind of things. Trump's head of his Council of Economic Advisers said growth in the first quarter was going to be 2.5 percent.

Well, let's just -- I don't know what it's going to be. I have -- predictions about the future are especially hard. But I got a feeling these guys have no idea of what they're doing. And when these opportunities come forth, you have to seize these opportunities. And, hopefully, we do.

BLITZER: As you point out, the Democrats lost the House, they didn't win the Senate, and they lost the White House as well.

In an op-ed for "The New York Times" last month, an important article that all of us read, you called on Democrats to -- quote -- "roll over and play dead."

[11:35:04]

But that's not what Democratic voters want. According to a new CNN poll from NBC -- a new poll from NBC News, what, 65 percent say they want their representatives to stick to their positions and fight Trump. Do you still believe the party leadership should ignore its base and play dead?

CARVILLE: Well, I think what the base is really mad about is, we lost the election, all right?

And I don't -- but I will be very candid to anybody in the Democratic base. We have no power, none. You understand? We have no power. And so I understand a lot of people, Democrats, are, like, mad at me. But why don't we be smart? And if we start winning elections, the Democratic base will love us.

The idea is not to appease the base by banzai attacks or frontal assaults in March. The way to get the base back is to be clever and win and show them that we got something going in our favor. And I think we can do that. But you can't be emotional about this. You have to be strategic.

We're in a really sticky wicket here. And I'm hopeful that Senator Schumer and Leader Jeffries -- and I saw leader Jeffries last -- Thursday of last week. And I got to tell you, I -- this is -- I think there's a good plan brewing in there. I really do.

The best plan is not going to be very good because we don't have the vote. We don't have to power.

BLITZER: The economy is a huge issue, as it always is, a huge issue right now, with the recession fears, falling stock prices, and President Trump's trade war.

How do Democrats convince voters they're fighting for them and not just against Trump?

CARVILLE: Well, if Kevin Hassett is wrong, as I suspect he might be, predicting 2.5 percent growth, they don't even understand the situation that we are in.

And everybody -- I mean, the tariffs are grotesquely unpopular. They're going to continue to be grotesquely unpopular. What Elon Musk is doing is really harmful to the country. And, at some level, it's going to be harmful to the economy.

And, Wolf, you have lived in the Washington for a long, long time. How many -- what is going to be to turn out among federal employees or ex- federal employees in the Virginia governor's race? Try 100 percent. I mean, they are creating conditions that I think in the end will be very favorable to the Democratic Party.

But the one thing that I don't think we should do is have a bunch of frontal assaults and speeches and screaming and yelling in March. I don't think that's a smart strategy.

BLITZER: Yes, there's so many people here in Washington, Maryland and Virginia who've lost their jobs, federal government employees. It's heartbreaking to see what's going on right now.

CARVILLE: Yes.

BLITZER: James Carville, as usual, thanks very much for joining us.

CARVILLE: Thank you, Wolf. I always enjoy it. Good luck to you. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you. Same to you -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And coming up -- you were just talking about tariffs -- the big question, will tariffs bring auto jobs back to the U.S., like President Trump claims?

A SITUATION ROOM special report is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:43:50]

BLITZER: All right, this just into THE SITUATION ROOM: The U.S. Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, says he can't guarantee the U.S. will avoid a recession. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: It was a silly question. Can you guarantee there's not going to be a recession? I can't guarantee anything. But what I can guarantee you is that there is no reason we need to have a recession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Bessent's comments come amid warning signs that President Trump's trade war is having a significant effect on the U.S. economy. Just yesterday, retail sales came in weaker-than-expected.

And now our SITUATION ROOM special report. Every day this week, we look at different industries and whether President Trump's tariffs will bring American jobs back, as he claims.

BROWN: So, today, CNN business and politics correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich joins us to look at the auto industry. There's been so much talk about that industry.

How strong is it right now, Vanessa?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of any industry that we have heard President Trump talk about, we have heard him talk about the auto industry the most.

Let's take a look at where it stands right now. In 2014, the U.S. produced four million finished cars. But look at a decade later, just 1.7 million finished cars. And the U.S. auto industry is really an intertwined market. It really operates as a single market in North America under USMCA with our trading partners Canada and Mexico.

And there really is no such thing as an all-American-made car anymore, because only up to 75 percent maximum can a car be considered made in America with U.S.-sourced parts. The rest of it comes from our trading partners Canada and Mexico. That is why free trade between the countries, guys, is so critical.

BLITZER: Vanessa, why is there such an imbalance, such an imbalance in imports versus exports when it comes to cars?

YURKEVICH: Yes, just take a look at these numbers, Wolf.

So, exports, the U.S. in 2024 exported $59 billion worth of vehicles. Look at the imports, more than 3.5 times that. Part of it is consumers' taste. But also it's the cost to produce. Foreign importers can make cars more affordably for Americans.

[11:45:12]

But, if you add a 25 percent tariff, as President Trump is advising he will do on April 2, of foreign cars imported, that would level the playing field a little bit here. However, if he goes ahead with a 25 percent tariff on Canada and Mexico, a blanket tariff that would not be excluding USMCA products, that would raise the costs here for exports.

So it doesn't level the playing field. Also, one thing to look at, wages. Look how much we pay workers here in the U.S. United Auto Workers, the starting wage, $26 an hour. Look at what we pay folks, U.S. companies pay folks in Mexico to assemble vehicles, $2.50 an hour.

So the question is, can U.S. automakers increase shifts, increase production? They can, but they would have to pay more.

BROWN: All right. And, of course, that impacts the margins, and that is a big question as well. Even if they shift production here, what will that mean for the company and prices and so forth?

Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:51:08]

BROWN: The debate over the healthiest cooking oil is heating up, and it's a concern that health and human services secretary RFK Jr. hasn't shied away from. Last year, he stated that Americans should have every right to eat out

at a restaurant without being unknowingly poisoned by heavily subsidized seed oils.

BLITZER: Grocery store shelves are full of seed oils, like sunflower and soybean and other fats, used for food preparation, like margarine, butter and beef tallow.

But there's conflicting advice right now about which ones are the healthiest.

BROWN: CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now to break it all down.

All right, so, Sanjay, we're essentially talking about animal fats versus plant-based oils. Walk us through the science on this.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, when you look at these seed oils and some of the plant-based oils, there's no question these are highly processed oils.

They can be pro-inflammatory. They can increase overall inflammation. And another thing is, when you cook them at high temperatures, they can release certain chemicals that we still don't, frankly, know enough about. So that's sort of setting the stage there.

A little bit of history. Go back to the middle of the last century, there was a real concern about using things like butter or big saturated fat products to cook your food because of the concern specifically about heart disease. And I think that's what really prompted the desire and the need to find other ways of cooking foods.

Now, I'm going to show you a graphic about what happened when you started using more of these plant-based seed oils versus regular beef tallow or butter. You saw over decades that the overall mortality risk was higher when using things like butter versus using plant-based oils, up 15 percent when you had a lot more saturated fat in your diet and a decrease with seed oils, but, again, taking into account that there was this concern about the overall processing and the pro- inflammation of these seed oils at the same time.

So that's really the discussion, the balance that's being discussed right now.

BROWN: So tell us a little bit more about these plant-based oils and the potential to harm our health.

GUPTA: Yes.

So, OK, first of all, there's eight oils specifically that we're talking about, the hateful eight, some have called them. They're canola, soybean oil, cottonseed, oil, grape seed. There's also other oils that are plant-based oils such as olive oil and avocado oil. So those are ones that people also sort of lump into this category, although they are a little different than actually grinding seeds into oil, which is what seed oils are. There's three main concerns, first of all, this inflammation. There's

omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. You need both, but the ratio is important. One of the predominant omega-6 fatty acids is something known as linoleic acid. And I just want to show you what has happened to the concentration of linoleic acid in our bodies since the middle of the last century to now.

It's gone up from about 9 percent to 22 percent. That's not good, because that is associated with more inflammation. That's one of the concerns. The other concern, again, as I mentioned, is just the fact that these are highly processed oils. And as part of that processing, sometimes, you introduce other chemicals into it. It's not clear still how much of an impact that makes, but that's a concern.

And then, when you cook these things, especially at high temperatures, you may be releasing other chemicals. So it's really that pro- inflammatory state that people are most concerned about, Pamela.

BLITZER: So, Sanjay, is it better for people to switch to plant-based oils, and, if so, which is the best?

GUPTA: Yes, so, look, like I have a strong family history of heart disease in my family. I'm going to be concerned about using things that have too much saturated fat in my diet. I think the data is pretty clear on that.

With regard to seed oils, though, I think plant-based oils, some are going to be better than others. Olive oil and avocado oil are going to have a better track record, for example. But even if you're looking at some of the seed-based oils specifically, canola oil probably going to be better than corn oil, for example. I don't know if you can see that well.

[11:55:06]

But that's -- you have to do a little bit of your own homework here, but not all seed oils are going to be the same. If you're worried about heart disease, overall, stay away from the saturated fats as much as possible.

BROWN: All right, Sanjay, great to see you, as always.

GUPTA: You got it.

BROWN: And you can submit your questions for Dr. Gupta about seed oils by scanning this Q.R. code. He will be back tomorrow with some answers.

There it is.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: There's the Q.R. code right there.

And a programming note for our viewers. Tomorrow, we have a really important guest right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. I will exclusively interview retired U.S. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer. I will ask him about President Trump's battle with the judicial branch and how his policies are ending up in front of the High Court. Make sure to tune in tomorrow to THE SITUATION ROOM 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BROWN: Thank you so much for joining us this morning. You can keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN.

We will see you back here tomorrow and every weekday morning at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BLITZER: And "INSIDE POLITICS" with our good friend Dana Bash is up next right after a short break.