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The Situation Room

Now, Musk Visiting Pentagon at Invitation of Defense Secretary Hegseth; Lawmakers Face Constituents' Fury at Town Halls; Israeli Defense Minister Says, IDF Told to Seize More Gaza Territory Until Hamas Agrees to Release All Hostage. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 21, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, Elon Musk at the Pentagon, brand new video just in of him arriving. We'll bring you the latest CNN reporting on what he's doing there.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Well, Flitzer is off today. I'm Pamela Brown and you're in The Situation Room.

And we begin with that breaking news. Elon Musk is at the Pentagon. But, again, what's he just doing there? That is a big question right now. The New York Times is reporting that the original plan was to brief him on the military's top secret plan for a potential war with China, something President Trump and the Pentagon are flat out dismissing as completely untrue.

Let's go live now to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House. Alayna, what more are we learning about that visit?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, like you said, Pamela, we saw Elon Musk arrive at the Pentagon just moments ago, but it's still very unclear what exactly he is going to be doing there.

Now, we did hear from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth yesterday. He said that Musk would be participating in an informal meeting about innovation, efficiencies and smarter productions.

And to be clear, Musk does hold a top security clearance, but there are questions over this visit overall, whether they could raise conflict of issues interest, essentially because Musk has a vested interest in the defense space. He has contracts with the Pentagon. So, this visit overall is raising eyebrows.

But the real questions are stemming from that New York times reporting that you mentioned, which said that he could be participating in a briefing regarding top secret U.S. plans preparing for a potential war with China.

Now, the reason that could be so concerning to some people and why some critics are calling that inappropriate is because Musk has publicly said he has a vested interest in China. We know that some of his companies, SpaceX and Tesla both rely heavily on the, or excuse me, SpaceX relies heavily on the defense space. Tesla relies heavily on China for productions of its vehicles.

Now, to be clear from President Trump all the way down to Hegseth and Musk, all of them pushing back heavily on this notion that any of this meeting today has to do with China.

This is what Musk actually said about it. He said that The New York Times story was, quote, pure propaganda. He said he looked forward to prosecutions on the journalists who wrote the story, accusing them of leaking malicious information. It's unclear, you know, exactly what he was referring to or how reporters would be prosecuted for this. But, again, a lot of questions over his visit there today.

And now also, just to bring your attention here to the White House, we are going to see Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth meeting with the president as well. The two of them and about an hour from now are expected to have some sort of announcement in the Oval Office. Some of press will be allowed in there. I think you will hear a lot of questions regarding Musk's visit today and other broader questions about defense. Pamela

BROWN: Yes, some strong words. They're basically targeting those who he says were leaking at the Pentagon.

Alayna Treene, thank you so much.

We are also following breaking news out of Heathrow Airport in London. One of the busiest airports in the world is scrambling to reopen as a power outage has completely shut it down. This massive fire nearby knocked out power to Heathrow, stranding tens of thousands of passengers around the world.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said there's no flight, and we have yet to hear anything. We've been here for, how long, three hours, three and a half hours, four hours, with no information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're waiting. We don't know. One of our parties said that we wouldn't get out until the 24th, which is a long time, you know?

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BROWN: All right, let's go live now to CNN Correspondent Anna Stewart at Heathrow. Anna, what is the latest you're learning about these reopening efforts and what happens here?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPOORTER: Heathrow Airport is hoping to reopen at midnight tonight. That's the current plan. However, that very much depends on electricity and power returning to the airport. And the latest we had from the London Fire Brigade, which is still working on the fire at the electrical substation near Heathrow, is that terminals 2 and 4 are still without power at this stage, so the reopening efforts will very much depend on that.

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Now, the disruption, as you can hear from that passenger, is already impacting many people. It's impacting hundreds of thousands of passengers, 120 flights or so were actually in the air when the airport closed. Those all had to be re-diverted to other airports in the U.K. and around Europe, which means lots of passengers are stranded, lots of passengers have had their flights cancelled, and, of course, the disruption when you have aircraft in all the wrong places and crew means that the disruption will last for days, even if Heathrow does reopen tonight. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, thank you, Anna Stewart, I appreciate it.

Boiling on both sides of the aisle, Democratic lawmakers are getting an earful from angry constituents over what they view as a feckless response to the Trump administration. And meanwhile, Republican Representative Harriet Hageman of Wyoming faced a second day of hostile crowds when she got into this exchange with a veteran.

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/UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are a lawyer. Where is this fraud?

REP. HARRIET HAGEMAN (R-WY): This is the fraud. Spending is the fraud, as an example.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that's your job, not Musk's job. That's your job, not Musk's.

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BROWN: So, much just emotion and passion there.

Here with us now is CNN Correspondent Arlette Saenz. Arlette, you know, you really see these tensions spilling over for both Democrats and Republicans. And it's interesting, too, with the Republicans, they were actually told not to hold town halls. She was an outlier with the one that she held. How long can we expect these town halls to take place?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Congress is expected to return from recess next week. So, we anticipate that these town halls will taper off a bit. But it's clear that voters are looking for these types of venues to air some of their frustrations. Harriet Hageman is one of very few Republicans who has held town halls, and she heard over multiple days the frustrations that voters have about the Trump administration's and Elon Musk's cuts that they're making, but it's also interesting to talk about what's happening on the Democratic side, as there are constituents going to Democratic town halls saying that they want to see their representatives fighting back more against the Trump administration.

Now, yesterday, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was out in North Las Vegas, Nevada, and she was really channeling a lot of those frustrations that they're hearing from their constituents. Here's a bit of her message about what Democrats need to do going forward.

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REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This isn't just about Republicans. We need a Democratic Party that fights harder for us too.

I want you to look at every level of office around and support brawlers who fight because those are the ones who can actually win against Republicans.

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SAENZ: So, it's an interesting comment as Democrats are actively debating how to present themselves as they are trying to win again in the midterm elections and beyond that in 2028.

BROWN: All right. Thank you so much, Arlette Saenz, I appreciate it.

And we're getting incredible new video after Ukrainian officials say a massive Russian drone attack left the port city of Odessa on fire overnight. Look right here. Emergency crews are seen battling these flames of apparent civilian infrastructure that was targeted just engulfing the city there.

Let's go live now to CNN Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen in Moscow. Fred, what are you hearing from the Kremlin about this recent volley of attacks?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Pamela. Well, the Kremlin is essentially saying that they don't believe that the Ukrainians, as they put it, are serious about this moratorium that the Trump administration said it dealt out with both the Kremlin and the Ukrainians to not attack civilian infrastructure and energy infrastructure in each other's countries. In fact, both sides overnight unleashing absolute blitzes of drones on infrastructure in each other's countries.

We're seeing the picture right here of Odessa, of course, that port city in Ukraine, where Ukrainian officials were saying the city is on fire after it got hit by a flurry of drones overnight, obviously causing extensive damage, wounding several people. And the Ukrainians are saying it absolutely shows that the Russians are not serious about not targeting civilian and critical infrastructure.

The Russians for their part, lashing out at the Ukrainians after a gas metering station in the Suja region, which is, of course, where the Ukrainians had a foothold until not so long ago, that was hit as well, also causing massive flames there. The Kremlin saying that that shows that the Ukrainians are not serious about a moratorium either, obviously not boding well for those talks that the Trump administration is trying to initiate. They obviously want a broader ceasefire.

The president himself over the past couple of days, having said that he believes things are going well. And, of course, we do know, Pamela, that those talks are set to go into the next round on Monday on a technical level to also try and get some sort of ceasefire going for the black sea region, Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thanks so much. And happening today, a federal judge and the Trump administration will face off in court over deportation flights.

Now, this is the first time that the two sides will meet in person after President Trump called for the impeachment of the judge.

CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins us now. You know, Evan, the judge has accused the Justice Department of evading its obligations. He's worried about consequences. What can you we expect today?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, you know, the judge is trying to give the Justice Department an off ramp because I think, you know, a lot of people are out there thinking that, or saying that this is a constitutional crisis. I don't think we're there yet. Look, we're tiptoeing to it and I, and the judge is trying to give the administration a chance to, A, either provide the information that he is asking for, that he has a right to ask for, by the way. This is a normal thing. You know, judges ask for questions when there's a lawsuit, questioning whether the administration has the power under this very controversial law, this Alien Enemies Act from 1798. And so the judge is asking for information, and if you can't provide that information, one of the things he's asking for is for the administration to say that it is invoking the State Secrets Act.

And so what we just got just a few minutes ago is the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, you know, put a statement in to the record saying that there is a discussion on the cabinet level on whether to invoke the State Secrets Act, which would again take this out of the hands of the judge, potentially. And so that's the next step. We know the judge is giving them through the next few days to try to provide that information.

BROWN: So, it would be surprising if they do end up invoking that, right, because they've been complaining about this judge and the judge has never stopped.

PEREZ: It would be an interesting step, because even if they do that, the judge will still be able to get some information about what supports that position. And so that's what he's doing. He's building a record, should this go up higher to the appeals court.

BROWN: I got to ask you about this, too, because The New York Times is reporting that the Trump administration is looking at whether using this alien enemies law, that, by the way, has only been used a few times in history, whether it allows them to enter homes wwithout a warrant. Can they really do this?

PEREZ: Well, you know, this is a law, obviously, that hasn't been tested in a long, long time, and we don't know where this will end up. But this is absolutely -- if they use that authority, if, as The New York Times says, they believe they can do this, to enter homes without a warrant, then you can bet that that is going to be tested in the federal courts. Now, the administration believes that they've done the legal work that this is going to stand up all the way up to the Supreme Court if it gets to there. But it really does show you --

BROWN: Even though there's not a declared war.

PEREZ: There is no declared war, and, right, and, again --

BROWN: In the past, there has been that conflict.

PEREZ: Right, and there's a dark history to this law, right? It was used during World War II to round up and question Germans and Italians and Japanese citizens.

And so there is no real reason right now that most critics, I think, can see as to why you would invoke this law at this point regarding illegal immigration.

And so we expect, right, if they do use this authority that it will be tested in federal court and they believe that they've done the legal work to try to support that.

BROWN: And it was challenged before as well.

PEREZ: Right.

BROWN: But this is of course a different time.

PEREZ: This is a different time --

BROWN: From what you've written it out in this context.

PEREZ: In this context, correct.

BROWN: All right. Evan Perez, thanks so much, as always.

Still ahead, I'll speak to Canadian Foreign Minister Melanie Joly on what she means when she calls President Trump's tariffs, quote, an existential threat.

And later, I'll speak with Ukrainian-born Republican Congresswoman Victoria Spartz on the new round of attacks by Russia as ceasefire talks resume next week.

You're in The Situation Room.

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BROWN: Well, new this morning, more fallout over the Pentagon targeting of websites to scrub diversity content from its platforms. A top Pentagon spokesman is now reassigned following criticism over how he responded to the Defense Department's removal of an article about Jackie Robinson.

Here's how a different spokesman is responding to the uproar over the website purges.

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SEAN PARNELL, CHIEF PENTAGON SPOKESPERSON: Every now and then, because of the realities of A.I. tools and other software, some important content was incorrectly pulled offline to be reviewed. We want to be very, very clear. History is not DEI. When content is either mistakenly removed or if it's maliciously removed, we continue to work quickly to restore it.

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BROWN: And new CNN reporting is that military units were instructed to simply use keyword searches like racism, ethnicity, history and first when searching for articles and photos to remove. Other keywords included LGBTQ, historic, accessibility, opportunity, belonging.

Since we're talking about the Pentagon I should note that Elon Musk arrived there just a short time ago. He's expected to get some sort of briefing there. Now, The New York Times had initially reported that he was going to be getting a briefing of top secret Chinese war plans, but the Pentagon as well as President Trump has denied that, saying it is completely untrue, but, of course, we will be following that story and we'll bring you a report very soon.

We'll be right back.

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BROWN: Well, new this morning, Israel has instructed its military to keep gaining ground in Gaza and establish permanent control until Hamas agrees to release all the remaining hostages. And it comes as the IDF announces its ground operation in the southern city of Rafah. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, more than 500 people have been killed in Gaza since Israel shattered the fragile ceasefire earlier this week.

Joining us now is CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk. He was also the lead U.S. negotiator on that Israel Hamas hostage deal.

Jill Brett, so Israeli forces are now on the ground in Rafah, and they are told to keep gaining territory. How will this affect the chances of these hostages being returned?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, thanks. It's great to be here. I think the key the key sentence about your introduction was until the hostages are released. There actually is a formula here that's on the table.

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There's about 25 living hostages in Gaza now. And if Hamas would agree to release a fixed number of those in exchange for a large number of Palestinian prisoners, we'll be back to a ceasefire. And Hamas has not agreed to do that. It's kind of as simple as that. And I think the pressure has to be put on Hamas to agree to release hostages and get back to a ceasefire.

Now, at the same time, it's important for the White House to keep some pressure on Israel to ensure that the military objective here is tied to getting these hostages out of Gaza.

BROWN: Right, But Israel is demanding the release of all hostages right now. Was that part of the ceasefire deal that you negotiated?

MCGURK: Well, at the end of the road, you have to have all living hostages come out. There's 25 left and all remains come out. There's about 33 remains or so.

You know, look, I've been, I've been involved in these talks. There's three components of the overall deal. There's an exchange hostages for Palestinian prisoners and that ratio is large. In the January deal, over 1,000 Palestinian prisoners came out for about 25 living hostages.

Second, there are terms of the ceasefire. And those have basically been agreed once you're back in a ceasefire. And, third, there are terms of the humanitarian surge that the ceasefire enables. About 25,000 trucks loaded with aid came into Gaza during the six weeks of the ceasefire we got in place in January.

Really, what we're talking about now is getting back to an exchange Palestinian prisoners for a fixed number of hostages to get a ceasefire in place to then allow the longer term negotiations to continue for what we call phase three.

Phase three is a three to five year reconstruction deal with an agreement on who is controlling Gaza. And the hard reality of that, which Hamas does not accept, is that Hamas cannot be in charge of Gaza in that phase three. They have to relinquish their control of Gaza.

They stubbornly refused to do that. They're holding the Gazans hostage as they're holding Israelis hostage. And that really is the hardest part.

But bottom line, we can get back to a ceasefire tomorrow if Hamas will agree to release a number of the living hostages in exchange for a number of Palestinian prisoners.

BROWN: Right. And as you talk about, there had already been under the first phase, right? Several hostages released. There was that exchange with the Palestinian prisoners, too. And then the second phase is supposed to be, you know, the full pulling back of the idea forces in Gaza for a permanent end of the war.

Hamas has said that it wants a permanent ceasefire. What I'm trying to figure out is Israel and your view of someone who negotiated this ceasefire deal, moving the goalposts by now demanding, by now launching these attacks and demanding the release of all of the hostages. MCGURK: Well, phase two talks about kind of an open ended negotiation where you're releasing hostages, Palestinian prisoners are being released. And at the end of that, you have to have an agreement, which is basically the end of the war. It is the withdrawal of Israeli forces.

But the agreement says the conditions have to have agreed on that. And one of the key conditions that was always understood in this negotiation was you need an agreement on the overall political arrangements in Gaza at the end of the day, and that's not going to be Hamas.

So, look, that has to be negotiated. That is difficult. There's a reason I spent most of my life between Doha and Cairo and Israel last year hammering this thing out and almost the entire month of December and January. It is difficult. It's hard.

But the best way to do this negotiation is with a ceasefire in place, and we can get a ceasefire back in place with Hamas agreeing to release hostages, which they need to do. It's as simple as that. These hostages are living in deplorable conditions, including an American citizen, Edan Alexander. I spoke with his father last night. That is really the crux of it. Release hostages, get back to a ceasefire, and then you negotiate the longer term arrangement.

BROWN: Yes. Edan Alexander's parents were here on the show. But as you know, a lot of these hostage families, they're very concerned by the fact that the war has started again and what that could mean for their loved ones. So we will continue to cover this.

Brett McGurk, thank you so much.

And coming up next, I'll speak to Republican Congresswoman Victoria Spartz on how and if President Trump will be able to hold Vladimir Putin to his word when it comes to any type of pause and fighting in Ukraine.

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