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The Situation Room

Canadian PM Expected to call for Election; Musk Wraps Up Meeting at Pentagon; Odessa in Flames After Russian Attack. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 21, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Canada appears set to hold a key election in the coming weeks, and it could have big implications in President Trump's ongoing trade war. Newly minted Prime Minister Mark Carney is expected to call for a snap election this weekend, and Canadians could head to the polls as soon as next month just weeks after President Trump's next round of tariffs are set to go into effect.

Joining us now is Canadian Foreign Minister Melanie Joly. Foreign Minister, thank you for coming on. You have called these tariffs an existential threat. What is Canada prepared to do if these new tariffs go into effect on April 2nd?

MELANIE JOLY, CANADIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, listen, we've already put $60 billion worth of counter tariffs on American goods. These tariffs, Pam, are a tax on hardworking Americans. These tariffs are going to cost more to Americans at the pump and also when they go do their groceries.

[10:35:00]

So, we're launching an ad campaign today in 12 different states. Canadians are sending a message that there's no winners in a trade war. There will be job losses on both sides of the border, and particularly in the U.S. And Canada's the biggest customer of the U.S. We buy more American goods from the U.S. than China, Japan France, and the U.K. So, imagine what the Trump administration right now is doing to its biggest customer that is supporting so many American jobs. So, that's why we want to make sure that Americans know what.

BROWN: So, tell us more about this ad campaign that you're launching and what states in particular.

JOLY: So, we will be having huge billboards along the key highways in Florida and Nevada, and Georgia, in New Hampshire, Michigan Ohio, 12 different states. And we know very much that these states are red states. But we're doing that because we think that we need to send a message to the American people for them to understand what's at stake, because this is really going to hurt, you know, their livelihoods and have an impact on their wallets.

And my message to hardworking Americans is, please, talk to your senators, talk to your House representatives, to your mayors, to your governors. Send a message that you don't want these tariffs. Because nobody will win in this this approach coming out from the White House. So, it is important that, altogether, we work to prevent them.

BROWN: So, the E.U. is now delaying its retaliatory tariffs. It had announced to allow for, quote, "additional time" for discussions with the U.S. Is Canada willing to do the same with the retaliatory tariffs that your country has announced for April 2nd, that is a day, as we know, that the president is calling Liberation Day?

JOLY: So, what we said is that we would be ready to put $150 billion worth of tariffs against the tariffs imposed by the White House. Because of a pause on one of the executive order coming out of the White House, we decided to pause the rest of the tariffs, the $90 billion worth of tariffs that are still under consultation here just to show goodwill.

I've had some conversations with Marco Rubio, the secretary of state. I've been in contact also with key Republican senators, including Lindsey Graham. My colleagues within cabinet have been in contact also with Howard Lutnick and Mr. Bessent. And so, our job is to make sure that while we put pressure, at the same time, we're really willing to discuss.

But at the end of the day, we very know, Pam, that people watching us right now in the States are the only ones that can really influence what's going on in the -- in -- you know, in the White House. Because ultimately, they're the first victims of these taxes that are imposed by their federal government against them.

BROWN: Do you think that President Trump is using these tariffs as a sort of economic force to annex Canada? He had said previously that he would be willing to use economic force against Canada to achieve his objective.

JOLY: Yes, he has mentioned that. And so, when President Trump speaks, we take him to his word. And so, in that sense, Canadians are fighting. Back at home, right here in Canada where I am, people are buying local, people are there to support their own Canadians because people are mad. They're infuriated.

Imagine the case of another country saying that they don't recognize the borders of the U.S. That they're threatening the sovereignty of American territory. How would Americans react? They would say, no way. It's unacceptable. Well, that's exactly how Canadians are reacting right now.

BROWN: And I want to highlight something the president said this week. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Canada was meant to be the 51st state. One of the nastiest countries to deal with is Canada. The people that -- now, this was Trudeau. The people that good old Justin -- and I call him Governor Trudeau, he was -- his people were nasty. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What is your message to the president?

JOLY: Well, my message first and foremost is to American people. We know that we're best friends. Americans and Canadians are best friends, best neighbors, best allies. We never started this trade war. We never called for it. And by the way, this was never discussed in the election that ultimately happened back in November in your country. So, we'll continue to push back against that narrative.

[10:40:00]

And meanwhile, while the rhetoric coming out of the White House is so, how can I say, absurd regarding the annexation and completely unacceptable, well, we're looking at other partners. Canada has always been very close also to Europe, and we've been always very close to Great Britain. So, we'll do that.

But meanwhile, who are the first impacted by all this rhetoric and all these this nastiness? It's ultimately American people themselves. And so, that's why it was important, Pam, for me to have the chance to talk to your viewers through our interview to make sure that the message was there and that Americans can send a clear message also to their lawmakers.

BROWN: And just really quick, have these negotiations with Bessent and Lutnick and the White House, have they gotten anywhere? Is there anything that you can tell us about what may have changed as a result of these negotiations?

JOLY: We were able to suspend a part of the 25 percent tariffs that were imposed on us, linked to the apparently Fentanyl crossing the Canadian border and going into the U.S., which we know at this point is a bogus argument. We've been working hard on protecting our border on both working really hard also with the American administration. We think that there are too much American lives and Canadians lives that are that affected by fentanyl, the scourge of fentanyl.

Some days per capita, there are more people dying of fentanyl in Canada and in the U.S. So, we have to work together. That's why we put more boots on the ground at the border, more Blackhawk helicopters, more also work being done through a strike force between Canada and the U.S. to counter fentanyl. But at the end of the day, we saw that all the work we were doing in good fate was not necessarily having an impact on President Trump himself.

So, that's why we're keeping our countermeasures, our counter tariffs in place. And of course, we want to find a way to ultimately be able to deal with this issue.

BROWN: All right. Former Minister Melanie Joly, thank you very much.

JOLY: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: Well, CNN's Oren Libermann has breaking news from the Pentagon. Oren, what can you tell us?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Elon Musk was in the building for just under about an hour and a half. He showed up at 9:00 this morning and left a short time ago at 10:21 meeting with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

From what we saw and from what we had learned, the meeting was supposed to be in the tank, which is a room where classified meetings are held inside of the building, and there was quite a crowd inside -- or right outside of that building as we were there for this morning.

But after that crowd had stood outside the tank for quite some time and the acting chairman of the joint chiefs of staff had walked into that room, as had the Department of Defense's chief of staff, Elon Musk did not go into that room. Instead, he went upstairs to the defense secretary's office, and that is where he met for quite some time with Hegseth.

Of course, this meeting comes with certain reports out there that Musk was to be briefed on the U.S. war plans for China, which are of course highly classified. There have also been some reports suggesting that he was getting an unclassified briefing on the threat from China.

Well, we tried to clarify that when Musk left the building just a short time ago when we asked how the meetings went, Musk responded, it's always a great meeting. I've been here before, you know. That was as he and Hegseth laughed and walked towards the entrance of the building outside the Pentagon. Musk and Hegseth shook hands and Musk told him, if there's anything I can do to be helpful, I'd like to see you. Neither Musk nor Hegseth have made any comment or answered any questions on whether the briefing itself was about China.

The White House, the Pentagon, and the administration have pushed back very hard on the idea that this was any sort of classified briefing or that he was being given sense sensitive intelligence while he was here. On his way out, Musk was asked by the New York Times what the two discussed, and Hegseth said, why would I tell you? And then left.

BROWN: And we should note that the Wall Street Journal effectively confirmed what the New York Times had reported, that the initial reason for this meeting was to have a top secret briefing about China and military readiness and the event of a war. Is there any indication, Oren, from your sources, that that was maybe the original intent and then it changed once this was reported?

LIEBERMANN: We're not clear on that at this point, whether the intention was always to have a classified or unclassified briefing and if that at some point changed. So, we simply don't have those definitively right now.

BROWN: All right. Oren Liebermann, thank you so much. We'll be right back.

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[10:45:00] BROWN: Breaking overnight. A major Ukrainian port city is on fire after a massive wave of Russian drone attacks, the strikes come on Odessa. They just are coming hours after President Trump said he was hopeful peace talks in Saudi Arabia next week would yield results. So, let's discuss this with Ukrainian born Republican, Congresswoman Victoria Spartz.

Congressman, I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective on this. Do you think that Russia would launch an attack like this if Vladimir Putin was actually serious about next week's ceasefire talks?

REP. VICTORIA SPARTZ (R-IN), JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE: Well, definitely Pamela. As you know, I always thought you need to win the war as fast as you can and not as long as it takes. And now, Putin has an advantage in that war, but I think he understand that President Trump is serious. He is going to be delivering on his promises and he is going to force Russia to the table, but it's not an easy situation. Russia was able to regroup and doing a lot of damage to Ukraine and Ukrainian people, but I think he will get to the table and hopefully he'll be able to push Russia, at least to have a temporary resolution in the brutal war.

[10:50:00]

BROWN: Right. And you know, as you know, some would argue who have -- who've been studying this that Russia wants to be at the table because it gives it legitimacy. And a tactic that Russia has often used, Putin for his part, has often used is to use negotiations as a delay tactic, continue -- to continue these attacks and continue his advantage.

President Trump has said that he was optimistic about Monday's ceasefire talks. He also said, as you know, he would end the war on day one. It's now day 61. Do you think the president is clear eye about Vladimir Putin?

SPARTZ: Well, President Trump always try to put pressure and he sometimes do things, you know, to understand how serious it is. And he -- you know, Putin understand that President Trump is very serious. It takes some time, but he will be patient for some time and then he might become less patient and Putin knows that.

So, I think, you know, Putin is trying to take advantage in the situation that unfortunately was created in the last three years and was created with lack of proper help from the West and lack of proper preparation by President Zelenskyy. But at some point, he will understand that President Trump is serious.

I mean, Russia got hurt too through this war. You are not in the position that you know that -- you know, they tried to act, but ultimately, unfortunately, they're not losing the war to be able to push them to negotiation where could have happened several years ago.

BROWN: I am wondering just as the fact that again, you were born in Ukraine. You know, Russia, as you point out, has the advantage of this war. Russia has made a clear time and time again it has a maximalist view. It wants to essentially own Ukraine, your birth country. So, you know, at what point do you want to see President Trump step up and be harder on Russia? And -- you know, because otherwise, what is Vladimir Putin's incentive to end this war?

SPARTZ: Well, I think President Trump being actually hard in Russia, even during his last presidency, not just words, but with true actions, his actions actually quite strong. He might do less words about action, that's what matters for Putin.

But ultimately, you know, the result of this going to be only achieve and Ukraine can only win this war if they strengthen their country, if they elect good government, if they have strong militaries, it's supported by government. It's strong national defense. If you want to win wars, you (INAUDIBLE) going to have peace, you want to need to be able to win the war. And unfortunately, Ukraine couldn't recover from post-Soviet Union time from corruption and bad government. They keep electing new governments and they get worse and worse and Putin take advantage.

So, they will have election, and that's a choice that Ukrainian people will have to make if they want to ever be free and be able to free their country, stood up against Russia.

BROWN: And certainly, you know, during the first Trump administration, it did impose a lot of sanctions on Russia. This time around, what actions do you think President Trump has taken specifically toward Russia that you would say is -- are tough actions?

SPARTZ: Well, he is going to do it. And he is meant -- you know, if Putin doesn't get to the table, he will be serious about sanctions. Unfortunately, a lot of sanctions we -- you know, we didn't do that were painful for Russian, including Russian oil. That's what funding the war because we had terrible policy on our domestic oil and energy policy that allow Russia to fund the war.

President Trump can be very serious. We have an ability to increase production. We have an ability to work with our allies to significantly increase production if needed, and put serious sanctions in Russia, so they will be suffocated with lack of money. Soviet Union was defeated not by weapons, but financial sanctions and also energy policies, and he can be serious about that.

So, President Trump can be patient for a little bit longer, but if Putin doesn't get seriously to the table he can become much harsher.

BROWN: When though? When would you like to see that? How much grace are you going to give these negotiations until you think Trump should become -- be harsher?

SPARTZ: Well, listen, I think, you know, they're trying, you know, they have meetings again, and we'll see how they're going to do it. It seems like, you know, President Putin does keep giving promises to President Trump. So, we'll see. He can be patient for some time, but as you know, president Trump is a serious negotiator. And at some point, if he sees that people are not serious, he's going to be much tough, and I think Putin understand that. BROWN: I just want to quickly ask you, because this is news of day. Elon Musk just wrapped up his visit to the Pentagon. He received a briefing there. We don't know exactly what it was about. Of course, he's visiting as the Defense Department weighs major cuts. You know, Musk has lucrative contracts with the U.S. government. A federal judge ruled this week that he exceeded his authority for his DOGE work. Musk who isn't Senate confirmed, has all this power, and yet he's never testified before Congress. Would you like to see him testify about his work?

[10:55:00]

SPARTZ: No. I actually would like him to see, maybe he can brief him. Why is Pentagon and Department of Defense couldn't be audited for years? Government accountability offices, you know, keep sending them alarming report that is not auditable. Government auditors put an audit. So, hopefully, you know, he will be able to help us. As a former auditor, I would love his help to actually audit the Pentagon, that we can use money wisely and make our Pentagon strong in national defense, that money go to proper causes and we know where the money are going because we need to have strong national defense.

But there is a lot of ways there too. And hopefully, he got briefed on that and can be a big help for Congress because we haven't been neglected this issue for very long.

BROWN: Right. And in its last audit, it showed that, you know, the Pentagon, they couldn't find a lot of money and certainly that is a big issue. So, I don't think anyone is arguing with that. I think the bigger question, and you're seeing this play out in the town halls from Americans across the country are, what is Elon Musk? This -- he's not senate confirmed. What is he doing? Why isn't Congress, you know, using their power to impose checks and balances? Why is he not testifying in front of Oversight Committee? Would you just like to see him come before a committee and talk about the work he's doing?

SPARTZ: Well, listen, I think he would come a meeting with them and I've been working with his team, but ultimately, most of the time we don't have -- you know, he is doing excellent audit and helping President Trump to audit the government. You know, we don't always have auditors coming.

I actually would -- will have -- would love for control, a general accountability office to come and speak in front of the Congress out to give a state of our fiscal State of the Union address. I think that actually -- we had to bill on this issue. So, I would like auditors actually start showing up, you know, to the committees and tell Congress, because they sent letters no one reads, and the situation is pretty bad. We have fiscal and huge travel.

So, I hope he will also bring some other auditors and show, because people will be shocked. What he's trying to do, just very common sense. He says, where the money going? Who approves this transaction? We don't even show. We just burst cash without even showing basic, you know, approval and basic justification for transaction. That's accounting 101. This is terrible. BROWN: Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, thank you for coming on. Appreciate your time.

SPARTZ: Thank you.

BROWN: We'll be right back.

SPARTZ: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

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