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The Situation Room
Did Scientists Really Bring Back Dire Wolf?; Interview With Former U.S. Envoy to Middle East Dennis Ross; Iran Nuclear Talks; Dangers of Online Gambling. Aired 11:30a-12p ET
Aired April 08, 2025 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:32:20]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: A source tells CNN that President Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff will lead the U.S. side in talks with Iran over a new potential nuclear deal.
The last time senior U.S. officials held direct negotiations with Tehran was a decade ago during the Obama administration.
Let's discuss this more with a former special assistant in President Obama -- in his Middle East area. Dennis Ross is joining us right now. He's also the author of an important brand-new book, here's a copy of it, entitled "Statecraft 2.0: When America Needs to Lead -- What America Needs to Lead in a Multipolar World."
Dennis, thanks very much for coming in.
DENNIS ROSS, FORMER U.S. ENVOY TO MIDDLE EAST: Sure.
BLITZER: Thanks for writing this important book for us.
I want to get to this potential new nuclear deal between the United States and Iran. You were skeptical of the first one, but you were also critical of Trump when he abandoned that first Iran nuclear deal.
ROSS: Right.
BLITZER: What's going to happen this time, you think?
ROSS: Look, I think the key is, what's the objective that the administration has? Is it to ensure that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon forever? Is it to buy time to delay the possibility?
What the JCPOA did is buy 15 years.
BLITZER: The Obama deal.
ROSS: Yes, the nuclear deal that Obama did, it bought 15 years. Iran deferred a nuclear weapons option. It didn't give it up.
What is the objective of the Trump administration? Is it to give up the option? What you had yesterday with Prime Minister Netanyahu was an analogy where he says, I like the Libya deal. The Libya deal was a dismantlement of their nuclear infrastructure. BLITZER: Make it impossible for Iran to ever have a nuclear weapon.
ROSS: Right. Right. Right.
Now, I doubt the Iranians will agree to something like that. On the other hand, if they understand the alternative to a deal is they lose their entire nuclear infrastructure, something they have built up over 40 years, then maybe they'd look differently at what they're prepared to negotiate.
The key, in the other words, is, what are the means, what's the leverage the U.S. is prepared to apply to the Iranians? If it's only the threat of Israeli force, I'm not sure that's enough.
BLITZER: Were you surprised that President Trump is now ready to enter into direct negotiations with Iran on its nuclear weapons program?
ROSS: Not really.
Look, this is an administration that actually talked directly to Hamas. No other administration has ever talked to Hamas before. So, being willing to talk to the Iranians directly doesn't surprise me. What's interesting is, I don't think the Iranians expected this to be announced at this point.
They were very quick to say indirect talks, not direct talks. My guess is...
BLITZER: They're going to be meeting Oman. And the Omanis will be involved in mediating this.
[11:35:02]
ROSS: Effectively, I suspect the Omanis will be going back and forth between the two. I wouldn't be shocked if there is some direct discussions at some point, maybe not right now.
BLITZER: And Steve Witkoff will represent the United States.
ROSS: Steve Witkoff will represent the United States. He seems to be President Trump's negotiator for every issue, Gaza hostages, Saudi normalization, Russia-Ukraine.
BLITZER: How's he done on those issues? Not so good.
ROSS: Well, look, no one should expect to get instant success. I mean, having been a negotiator for a long time, you don't produce instant success.
But I will say, the good news for him is that everybody understands that he's authoritative. The bad news is, pretty hard to be an expert on everything.
BLITZER: As you know, in Israel, there's plenty of support right now for not negotiating a new deal with Iran, but simply launching some sort of military strike to try to destroy forever Iran's nuclear capability.
How realistic is that?
ROSS: I don't know that you can destroy forever their capability because you can't destroy the know-how. They have the know-how now. But they are a threshold nuclear weapons state right now.
They are enriching 30 kilograms a month at 60 percent. No country that's ever enriched that level has not gone ahead and simply gotten a nuclear weapon. So they are quite advanced. The Israelis could set them back significantly, but there's one target they can't take out.
Fordow is one of the enrichment sites. It's built into a mountain. The Israelis cannot take that out.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: The U.S. could do that.
ROSS: We could take it out, yes.
BLITZER: Yes, the U.S. could.
All right, the book, once again, "Statecraft." We're going to have you back to talk about "Statecraft 2.0: What America Needs to Lead in a Multipolar World."
Dennis Ross, thanks very much for all your support.
ROSS: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for joining us.
ROSS: Thank you. My pleasure.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, just ahead, a story I have been looking forward to talking about all morning.
BLITZER: What story is that?
BROWN: It's about a wolf, not Wolf Blitzer, though. We're talking about the dire wolf and how scientists brought back the dire wolf, how it was resurrected thousands of years after extinction.
BLITZER: Is that the dire Wolf Blitzer?
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:41:21]
BROWN: Well, March Madness means not only high stakes on the basketball court, but also on the wallets of many sports fans.
The American Gaming Association says people bet more than $3 billion on the men's and women's tournaments this year. But there's concern that this Internet pastime that's so easy to access on cell phones is leading to widespread gambling problems, especially among young men.
Joining us now is Susan Sheridan Tucker from the National Council on Problem Gambling.
Hi, Susan.
So why is awareness so important right now of this issue?
SUSAN SHERIDAN TUCKER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL COUNCIL ON PROBLEM GAMBLING: Well, since the overturning of the sports ban in 2018, it's become, as you say, much more accessible for people to bet on sports.
Essentially, they're carrying around on their phones the opportunity to bet at all times of the day. And that's -- that can cause some serious issues for people who have a predilection towards addiction. So it's really important that we get word out to everyone that they need to be aware that gambling is, can be an addiction for a percentage of the people.
And so people need to understand the risks involved with gambling.
BROWN: All right, so let's dive into that a little bit more. What is the line that takes sports betting from a fun pastime to a gambling problem? And how big is that problem?
TUCKER: Well, I think we're still waiting on research, because it's a fairly new endeavor since 2018.
But we are seeing a rise in young men particularly being exposed to gambling and indicating some problematic behavior. And we're seeing this because a rise in the helpline calls are coming through. Some problematic behavior is when somebody starts to become more obsessed with their gambling. They're doing it more frequently. They're starting to chase their losses.
All of these are signs of problematic behavior.
BROWN: According to an Ipsos poll, 20 percent actually of men under 30 placed an online bet on a live sporting event last year. Why is this a group that tends to be vulnerable to gambling problems?
TUCKER: Well, I think we all know that, when we're in our early 20s, we tend to think that risk doesn't apply to us. And so this is an age that's quite vulnerable.
They are willing to take risks. And when we are not educating people in high school, middle school about what problems can occur when you gamble, what are the risks, if we're not having those conversations, then we're doing a disservice to students who enter college.
They're away from home for the first time, and they are tending to take more risks. They may drink more. They may smoke more. They may try things that they wouldn't have done under their family's roof. So we want to make sure that kids are well-educated.
BROWN: YouTube, for its part, is cracking down on gambling videos that try to lure viewers to unapproved sites. What more should these social media and video-sharing platforms be doing to protect their audiences, in your view?
TUCKER: Well, I think where there are enticements to encourage particularly young minors, young people to try certain games.
[11:45:08]
I mean, we are normalizing gambling in everyday activities. And so there needs to be, as I said, greater awareness. When you're putting a shiny bright object in front of somebody, they're going to act on it. So we really need greater education and prevention materials.
And these organizations should be working with our organization to understand what more they can be doing to make their sites safer.
BROWN: All right, Susan Sheridan Tucker, thank you.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:26]
BLITZER: Now to story more than 12,000 years in the making, or remaking.
In a scene that could be described as "Jurassic Park" meets "Game of Thrones," scientists say they have brought a species of wolf back from extinction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(WOLVES HOWLING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I mean, how cute is that? Those adorable howls from the prehistoric past are from a baby dire wolf, allegedly.
Of course, we all know and love the species thanks to the fictional CGI-enhanced versions from the hit Max series. The canines -- "Game of Thrones," I should say. The canines were the loyal companions to the Stark family.
A Dallas-based biotech company created three pups by using ancient DNA and then cloning and gene-editing technology to alter the genes of a gray wolf, which is the dire wolf's closest living relative.
BLITZER: And joining us now is the communications director of Zoo Miami, Ron Magill.
Ron, thanks so much for joining us. We love Zoo Miami.
What was your reaction to this scientific achievement?
RON MAGILL, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, ZOO MIAMI: Oh, you know, of course, your first reaction is fascination. It's a fascination to see something from the past that's not been seen.
Everybody's fascinated. My gosh, to think, bring back these extinct animals. I mean, right away, you go to that "Jurassic Park" mentality. But after thinking it over for a while, there's a little bit of concern there too, because there's an old saying that says don't fool with Mother Nature.
And people need to understand that, though extinction happens now, we hear about manmade causes of extinction accelerated, extinction's been going on for millions of years before man had anything to do with it. And it's a natural process. And there's always a reason behind it. It's not always a bad one.
BROWN: So what would the concern be then bringing these dire wolves back?
MAGILL: Well, why would they go extinct in the first place? I mean, sometimes, extinction is making room for another species. Is bringing them going to create a competition for an existing species in the present environment?
There's a lot that we don't know. That's the key thing that people need to understand. You know, it's -- I don't want to draw analogies to the movie, but "Jurassic Park," oh, let's bring the dinosaurs back. This is fascinating. Everybody's amazed by this, right?
You see these things that have been just part of mythology for so long, and then, all of a sudden, things start to go a little bit south and things go wrong, and you just don't know that domino effect. So I would be very, very cautious before I start thinking to myself, oh, we want to bring back all these extinct species.
Let's realize why they went extinct in the first place.
BLITZER: Are there any other concerns, Ron, around about how this kind of scientific technology potentially could be used?
MAGILL: Well, I think really what overshadows it is that there's a lot of good that we can learn about.
We can see what -- we can answer a lot of the questions that we have had, some of these animals, where you -- we have only had their bones. We have only had fossilized remnants of them. Now we can learn a lot more about what they were really like if this is, in fact, recreating the animal.
I'm still not sure as how much of the exact dire wolf this is, but the fact is, we can still learn a lot about that. I'm sure there's a lot of knowledge that can be gained. But, having said that, we could be introducing things also to the environment that could be very detrimental to, again, native species, native environments.
We just don't know that domino effect. Again, to quote that old commercial, don't fool with Mother Nature.
BROWN: So, then, what do you think? Would you not want to see this being used to prevent current endangered species from reaching the same fate as those that are extinct? What do you want?
MAGILL: Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is something that we can use to preserve presently living animals. There's no question you want to preserve those endangered species, especially species that have become endangered because of man, because we have eliminated habitat, because we have introduced parasites, because we have hunted them out of existence.
That's a different situation than an animal that went extinct because of changes, natural changes in the environment, natural changes in climate. Yes, climate change now is advanced. We're talking about a lot of different circumstances being brought about by accelerated climate change as a result of things that man is doing.
But the bottom line is, again, you have to be able to differentiate between the natural progression of something and something that has been artificially advanced by man. We can try to correct our mistakes, but I wouldn't -- be very cautious in trying to correct something that Mother Nature did on her own.
BLITZER: Finally, Ron, a personal question, an important one for me. What are the chances they name one of the dire wolf pups Blitzer?
[11:55:00]
(LAUGHTER)
MAGILL: You know, Wolf, I was not going to go there, but what the heck, let's go there. I think Blitzer -- Blitzer, the dire wolf, would be fantastic.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Oh.
BLITZER: New members of my Wolf pack, to be sure.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Ron Magill, thanks so much for what you do.
I have family down in Miami. They love going to the zoo, where you are.
Now it looks like we have three new members of the Wolf pack right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. BROWN: It's going to be a crowded Wolf pack. Oh, my gosh, I love
that. They have to name one of the pups Blitzer. Come on. That's amazing.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Thank you so much, Ron. Appreciate you coming on the show. Really interesting perspective, actually, from you.
And thank you all for joining us this morning. You can keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN.
We will see you back here tomorrow and every weekday morning for our expanded two-hour SITUATION ROOM at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.
BLITZER: And "INSIDE POLITICS" with our good friend and colleague Dana Bash is coming up next right after a short break.
