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The Situation Room

Interview With Ontario, Canada, Premier Doug Ford; Republicans Pass Budget Agreement; Trump Escalates China Trade War; Markets Sink. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 10, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:02]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And this comes as President Trump plans to hold a Cabinet meeting this hour where his administration will try to get on the same page about its trade war with the rest of the world.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, along with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And we begin this hour with President Trump set to meet with his Cabinet, as a key part of his second-term agenda hangs in the balance right now up on Capitol Hill and after a week of tariff whiplash here in the United States, as the president's trade war clearly intensifies.

BROWN: And, as we know, Wall Street doesn't like the uncertainty, right?

Wednesday's green bounce after the tariffs were paused, that has turned into Thursday's red reality check.

Let's go to CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny at the White House.

And, Jeff, you have reporting, along with your White House colleagues, about how this all came to be with the pause and this Cabinet meeting today as well.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Pamela.

It certainly was an extraordinary turn of events yesterday, not even quite 24 hours ago, but we have learned that it certainly was the advice that the president was receiving from some members of his Cabinet, including the Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, who will be in that room today when the Cabinet is meeting.

He was the one, of course, who was really sounding the alarm and telling the president how deep the bond markets were reacting to the president's sweeping tariff plan. So, one thing that this whole situation has really shined a light on are the differing pieces of advice that the president was hearing from Scott Bessent, for example, the Treasury secretary, versus his longtime trade adviser, Peter Navarro, who was urging the president not to make negotiations.

A big question, though, heading into this Cabinet meeting, is Elon Musk going to be in the room? We have not seen much of him in recent days, but he's been very active on social media. And his view on this sweeping tariff plan was that it was not good for the economy. So he was throwing stones, quite literally, at the top trade adviser.

But the top economic adviser, Kevin Hassett, talked about the Cabinet meeting earlier like this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: USTR has informed us that there are maybe 15 countries now that have made explicit offers that we're studying and considering and deciding whether they're good enough to present to the president.

The chief of staff's office has asked all the principals that have skin in the game to come and discuss what their views are about how this should go. And that's what the purpose of the meeting is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So the offers that Kevin Hassett is talking about there are from allies like Japan, South Korea and others who have opened lines of communication, trying to lower their tariff percentage with the president.

So this is all coming as the trade war is very much still on with China. There is no question about that. But the U.S. is trying to sort of circle our allies, if you will, Wolf, to have a united front against China.

BLITZER: And it's interesting, Jeff. Kevin Hassett is also pushing back on suggestions that President Trump actually manipulated the markets when he told people it was a -- quote -- "good time to buy" only hours before announcing the pause.

Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California says he plans to write to the White House about it. How is the administration defending itself?

ZELENY: Wolf, there is no question that that timeline of a few hours between when the president sent that message, "Be cool, time to buy," versus about 1:18 yesterday afternoon, East Coast time, when the president sent his message about a pause on this, what happened during that intervening time?

Did anyone have a heads-up at all? Kevin Hassett, again, the president's top economic adviser, told us a short time ago that there was no insider trading or any type of activities going on. But Democrats on Capitol Hill are not convinced of that.

But, Wolf, the reality is, since Republicans control Capitol Hill, there will not be any type of a committee investigation. However, this will be something, a moment in time, really those four hours in time yesterday, that will be viewed in the coming days.

But for now, at least, the trade war on against China. The Cabinet meeting is under way shortly, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jeff Zeleny at the White House for us.

Jeff, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

BROWN: Meantime, China's 84 percent tariff on U.S. goods is now in effect, with President Trump hiking his tariffs on China to 125 percent.

We're joined now by CNN chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto.

Jim, I know you have been talking to your sources in China. President Trump claims China wants to negotiate a trade deal, but -- quote -- "doesn't know how." Has Beijing offered to come to the table? Because, publicly, it is digging in its heels.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Listen, I think two points there.

The first is that China has its own internal political pressures, which are quite real. And those pressures are such that the Chinese leader cannot be seen to be buckling to U.S. external pressure. It's just not politically sustainable there.

[11:05:09]

And that's why it's notable today that you have the chief Foreign Ministry spokesperson tweeting out a video of Mao Zedong, the former dictator of China from the 1950s, a clip of him speaking during the Korean War, which was the last time the U.S. and China were shooting at each other, saying, we will not back down.

That is not accidental. That's an official statement from the Chinese Foreign Ministry. That said, I'm told that China does want to negotiate with the U.S., because it calculates that it's going to lose economically in a protracted trade war, but they don't see the signals yet from the U.S. that those negotiations are going to happen.

They don't see the channels open to begin negotiating with the U.S. They have heard President Trump saying he's got a good relationship with Xi Jinping, et cetera. But from the Chinese perspective, this is not going to start at the top with Xi and Trump meeting and just kind of working it out over breakfast, right?

They want a much more formal process, which would be the lower-level negotiators work it out and Trump and Xi meet only when they're ready to make a deal.

BROWN: Interesting.

And reading some of our reporting, Beijing sort of saw this coming, right, and has been preparing the last several years...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWN: ... to sort of gin up the sort of nationalism for this moment.

SCIUTTO: Yes, they have.

And they have also -- they have been trying -- just as the U.S. is trying to decouple from China right now, President Trump's ambition, right, is to move manufacturing back from China to the U.S. -- China's been doing quite the same, a mirror image of that. They want to become less dependent on American consumers for its economy, therefore less dependent on exporting to the U.S. market.

They want Chinese consumers to pick up that slack, but that takes years. They can't turn that switch on in a moment. In the meantime, the other thing China's been preparing for is ways that it can retaliate against the U.S., make the U.S. hurt, right? I mean, just in the last 24 hours, they're restricting access to U.S. films in China, which is an enormous market for us filmmakers.

BROWN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: There are ways China can hit back. This is not -- this is a two-way street in many ways in terms of the pressure applied, but also the costs to be endured.

BROWN: All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much for bringing your reporting to the table.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

BROWN: Wolf.

BLITZER: We will watch it very closely together with Jim.

And there's more breaking news up on Capitol Hill right now. The House of Representatives is voting on the Senate's budget blueprint, a key part of President Trump's sweeping agenda. The House speaker, Mike Johnson, delayed the vote last night after failing to get enough Republican support.

But, this morning, he seemed optimistic of getting the measure passed.

I want to go live to CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, up on Capitol Hill.

Manu, what's the latest from the House floor?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this vote is still ongoing. And, right now, the speaker has virtually no margin for error. There are two Republicans who have voted against this plan right now.

And if all members are present and voting, he cannot lose more than three Republican votes. But in a very good sign for the speaker, some of these holdouts are voting for this proposal. Actually, Congressman Ralph Norman of South Carolina just voted for this. He was one of those holdouts.

And Andy Harris, he's the leader of the House Freedom Caucus, just voted for this plan. A couple of other members, including Congressman Rich McCormick, and also Andy Ogles of Tennessee, both of them had been indicating that they were not going to support this plan. Now they are supporting it because they said they have gotten some verbal commitments that the Senate would go as far as they are going on the issue of spending cuts.

Remember, this is step one in unlocking the larger Trump agenda. The larger Trump agenda includes everything from spending cuts to an overhaul of the tax code, dealing with immigration and energy issues. But they need to pass this budget blueprint first in order for them to move along -- move this larger legislation.

And this sticking point over spending cuts has delayed the speaker's plans. But it appears they are closer, Wolf, to getting this over the finish line. Right now, just two Republicans have voted against it. That is Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, Congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana, the only two Republican votes.

But I can tell you, Wolf, there is concern within the ranks of the House GOP Conference about the push of some of these members to seek even deeper cuts, worried that perhaps it could scuttle their ultimate effort to pass the bill in the long run.

One congresswoman, Nicole Malliotakis, I just caught up with, asked about the holdouts and the concerns that they had been pushing in their efforts to try to get the speaker to agree to even deeper cuts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Are you comfortable with their tactics in holding up the budget resolution, Nicole?

REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): Look, I think it -- I think the problem with a certain group of people in our conference is, they want all or nothing. They can't seem to celebrate incremental wins. They have to recognize that we have a $37 trillion debt that has been accumulated over decades, and we're not going to reverse it overnight.

[11:10:00]

Let's celebrate incremental wins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And, Wolf, right now, there are three Republican no-votes on the floor of the United States House.

And, remember, if all members are present and voting, that is the most the speaker can lose. Now, we do expect some absences. And that will change the threshold a little bit. It's unclear how many members will miss this vote. But, right now, there are three Republican no-votes. The third vote, it looks like it is -- there might have been a mistake, Wolf. Actually, now it's down back to two. Sometimes, that happens. Sometimes, a member may put their voting card in and vote no and then switch back to yes. And that appears to have happened here, so now a little bit more breathing room for the speaker, still two Republican votes.

Remember, three is at the most if all members are present and voting. But in a very good sign here now, Wolf, we are just learning that Chip Roy of Texas, that one of the holdouts, one of the major holdouts here, is voting yes, and also Scott Perry voting yes.

So, Pamela and Wolf, these are -- this is a very good sign for the speaker that they can get this -- clear this key hurdle, just one hurdle. Again, this is supposed to be the easy part in advancing the Trump agenda. There are actually no details in this legislation. It just sets a large -- the parameters for moving forward on the bigger bill, which -- that's where all the details will come into play and where they will fight over the details.

But clearing this first hurdle has been months and months in the making, and the speaker very close now that they are at 216 votes in the affirmative, 214 in the negative. And, Wolf, sounds like they're calling the vote right now.

BLITZER: And there's still a few members who have not yet voted, so we will see what happens on that front. It's going to be very close either way. We will watch it together with you.

All right, Manu Raju, thank you very, very much.

BROWN: We're just hearing in my ear the motion just got adopted.

BLITZER: Oh, really?

BROWN: There's still a lot of work ahead, as Manu laid out.

And still ahead: President Trump's tariff delays include most of the targeted countries, but not Canada or Mexico. What we could see next, as Canada vows to fight back.

Plus, how the men and women who grow food for us and much of the world are adjusting to the growing uncertainty and what it means for their future.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:43]

BROWN: Well, it's been another rough morning on Wall Street, as rattled investors weigh President Trump's trade war.

So let's check in now with CNN business and politics correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich. She is standing by at the New York Stock Exchange.

Vanessa, what are you seeing right now?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, listen, markets are down this morning coming off that enormous rally yesterday.

And I spoke to veteran trader Peter Tuchman just a short time ago, and he told me that the real reaction of Wall Street really comes the day after. Yesterday was this relief rally. And, today, reality has set in that we are still very much in the middle of a trade war with still historically high tariffs.

That 90-day pause on those high reciprocal tariffs are very welcome news to traders here. I spoke to a few yesterday after the market closed, who said that any time the Dow is up nearly 3,000 points, that is a good day. However, today, they are facing down high tariffs on China, that 125 percent tariff. You have those tariffs in place 25 percent on autos.

And then, of course, you have that 10 percent universal tariff that is in effect right now. And you see the markets there, right now, the Dow down about more than 2.5 percent. Look at the Nasdaq down more than 4 percent, the S&P down almost 3.5 percent there.

But the big questions that I'm hearing from traders here today are sort of, what are the off-ramps here to this trade war? What are the negotiations that need to be happening between these more than 75 countries in the administration?

And then especially looking at China, because so many of the companies that are traded on Wall Street here have direct ties to China, get many of their products from China. So what does that look like? One analyst said to me this morning that some of these negotiations could actually center more around other things, non-tariff-related things, something like with China, maybe a deal with TikTok or even a deal with the Panama Canal.

Those are the questions that they have. What is the off-ramp for this trade war for the president? So here, today, I would say less uncertainty, but still a level of uncertainty about where this trade war is going, Pamela. Obviously, we're not seeing sort of those dramatic swings this morning that we have seen in the past several weeks.

That is because very much investors here know we're still in the middle of this, obviously, though, good sign that that 90-day pause went into effect just yesterday, Pamela.

BROWN: Yes, I mean, clearly investors are sending a signal, though, that they understand this is far from over, there's a lot to be worked out.

But you do have a businessmen like billionaire investor Bill Ackman, a Trump ally, celebrating this pause. He was among the business leaders who had turned on the president over his tariff plans. He's now praising the pause in implementing many of those taxes.

What can you tell us about that?

YURKEVICH: Yes, well, we know the past several days leading up to these reciprocal tariffs going into effect, Bill Ackman, who, as you mentioned, is a billionaire, he is a founder of a huge hedge fund, he was saying that these tariffs would be -- I'm reading here, quoting -- "economic nuclear war."

So he said that leading up to Wednesday's tariffs. And he was warning that this could be really terrible for the economy. Now that the president has reversed course and put this 90-day pause into effect, he is coming out and saying that, yes, he was raising concern, but he's praising the president in what he calls the art of the deal, that the president actually did right by this deal.

[11:20:04]

And Bill Ackman and other billionaires were raising those alarms for several days, but many of them are seeing a little bit more of a relief here that the president has maybe listened to advisers, as Bill Ackman said, and really sort of put into place more of a better road map for billionaires right now, that, really, they play in the stock market.

They obviously have their businesses tied to the stock market, Pamela. They can be against him one day and with him the next day as they see their stocks rise, Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Vanessa Yurkevich, thanks so much -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It's interesting that the Dow was up yesterday. The markets were up, but, today, they're all going down, the Dow Jones right now down more than 1,100 points. So it's a big day on Wall Street as well...

BROWN: It certainly is, yes.

BLITZER: ... not necessarily a good day.

BROWN: Yes, and you're still having some of these investment firms, you have J.P. Morgan Chase coming out and actually not changing the recession forecast...

BLITZER: Yes.

BROWN: ... and saying they see this as sort of the end of the beginning, but not the beginning of the end.

BLITZER: A lot of questions still need to be answered.

This morning, the European Union decided to put a pause on plans to retaliate against U.S. tariffs. That decision comes just hours after President Trump announced a hold on most of his new global tariffs.

But the reprieve does not apply to America's neighbors. We're talking about Canada and Mexico. The new 25 percent tariff on most goods remains in effect. Joining us now is Doug Ford, the premier of Ontario and one of

Canada's most outspoken critics of President Trump's trade war.

Premier, thanks so much for joining us.

Were you surprised that the White House didn't pause tariffs on Canada, perhaps our closest friend and ally, as it did with several other countries, several of whom are not necessarily close friends or allies?

DOUG FORD, PREMIER OF ONTARIO, CANADA: Well, first of all, thanks for having me on, Wolf.

And, yes, we were shocked that we weren't part of the group, per se, and number one customer. We are both each other's number one customer. And we need to get through this and bring certainty back to the people of the United States and Canada, certainty to the markets. As you mentioned, the Dow is down, the S&P is down, because there is still uncertainty.

I know it took a little bump up yesterday, but the reality is a tariff on Canada is a tax on Americans. And that's the last thing we want to see to the American people.

BLITZER: We are showing our viewers the numbers right now, the markets not doing well, the Dow Jones industrials down, what, 1,126 points, at least right now.

Last month, Premier, Canada placed tariffs on a variety of U.S. goods. And Canadians, long among, as I keep saying, America's closest and most loyal allies, have vowed to fight back.

Do you feel Canada's decision to strike back has made President Trump more punitive toward Canada?

FORD: Well, I'm not too sure if that's a situation.

But, in saying that, I always say we love our American neighbors. We truly do. We didn't start this. President Trump aimed at Canada and the rest of the world for the most part. And we just need to get rid of these tariffs. We will drop our tariffs tomorrow if President Trump drops the tariffs.

We always believe in the Am-Can fortress, working together to make the two strongest nations in the world. That's what we want to do.

BLITZER: Could you see Canada, Premier, actually rolling back those tariffs on the U.S. as an olive branch to the Trump administration?

FORD: Well, as long as we know the tariffs are going to be dropped against Canada as well, if we have a mutual understanding, if they feel comfortable with us going first, by all means.

But we need insurance that they're -- President Trump is going to drop those tariffs shortly after we do.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: This week, I know, Premier, you unveiled an $11 billion in tax deferments and rebates to help workers and businesses hurt by the Trump tariffs.

FORD: Yes.

BLITZER: How much have the tariffs hurt everyday Canadians?

FORD: Well, they're at a fever pitch right now, 40 million Canadians at a fever pitch focused on every piece of news coming across CNN and other broadcasts. It's very, very important.

We're very passionate about this. And, now, I will give you a couple of examples. We ship in. We do trade. We ship in about $6.5 billion of steel, but we don't make steel beams. Steel beams all come from the U.S. and other areas around the world. Now we're going to go out and start making steel beams.

The beer cans, we don't make the beer cans. We ship the aluminum in the U.S., a company prints it and converts it. That's a billion-dollar industry we're onshoring back into Ontario. So it's not good for both sides of the border. We'd rather just leave everything alone, things seemed to be working, and just build a stronger Am-Can fortress, American-Canadian fortress, put a ring around it.

[11:25:20]

BLITZER: Yes, let's see if that happens.

The Trump administration, Premier, says 15 countries have made what they describe as explicit offers regarding potential trade deals. Do you know if Canada is negotiating right now with the United States, with the White House?

FORD: Not right now, we aren't. Hopefully, we can get back to the table and continue negotiating. That's what we want to do. Let's sit down at the table, let's move forward, and it's going to benefit both countries.

We're both our number one trading partners. How we say, we're the number one customer to the U.S., and the U.S. is the number one customer for Canada. And we share the same values.

BLITZER: Pamela has a question for you, Premier.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Yes, I'm wondering what the implications are with this back-and-forth over trade with the U.S. and Canada in terms of areas outside of trade, such as national security, intelligence- sharing between the two countries. Has it put a strain on that at all?

FORD: No, actually, they're working hand in hand, no matter if it's in intelligence-sharing, NORAD, or even our border. Our law enforcement works hand in hand with the U.S. law enforcement.

They will always be partners. And at the highest level of the intelligence bureaus, they're working together.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: One quick -- Premier, one quick final question before I let you go. I have got a lot of friends, including some family, who live in Ontario and Toronto, for example.

And I'm hearing that a lot of Canadians are now reluctant to even come to the United States, to go to Florida, for example, where a lot of the Canadians go visit, or Las Vegas or places like that. They want to boycott the United States. Are you hearing that as well?

FORD: In a big way, actually. We know the border traffic has gone down dramatically. Flights going into the U.S. dropped dramatically.

And isn't that unfortunate? Two countries, two groups of people that love each other, we need to get through this and start traveling back and forth. I was -- just a few minutes before I hopped on, I have Governor Cox from Utah here. What a gentleman. He feels the same way.

We have to get through this trade deal and continue growing both economies.

BLITZER: Yes, I hate this rift that has developed between the United States and Canada, two very close and very friendly, traditionally friendly, allies. And now look what's going on.

Doug Ford, thanks, as usual, for joining us. FORD: Thank you, Wolf. You're an absolute champion. We love America.

And thank you, Pamela, as well.

BLITZER: Yes, we love Canada too.

BROWN: Of course. Thank you for coming on the show.

And you make a really -- you ask an important question there at the end, because travel is down to the U.S....

BLITZER: Yes.

BROWN: ... not just from Canada, elsewhere as well. And a lot of businesses who rely on that tourism are concerned right now.

So we will continue to track that aspect as well.

And up next, I'm talking with one of the many American farmers whose entire way of life is being upended right now by the tariff whiplash with China.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]