Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Consumer Sentiment Plummets to Second-Lowest Level Since 1952; NTSB, FAA Investigating Deadly NYC Tourist Helicopter Crash; "Make America Healthy Again" Moms Flex Influence Online. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 11, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:53]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin this hour with breaking news, President Trump's tariffs and their fallout, fueling a lot of pessimism about the U.S. economy. We'll take a closer look at that grim new report in just a moment.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that anxiety has really weighed heavily on Wall Street. You've seen that these last several days, stocks are just struggling to end the week in the green, just hours after China made its latest move in the trade war.

CNN's Matt Egan is in New York. So Matt, walk us through this new consumer sentiment report, these numbers and what they mean.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Pamela, the mood on Main Street is getting darker and darker. These are historically weak numbers. So the University of Michigan came out this morning and said that consumer sentiment in the United States this month plunged by 11 percent to the second lowest level since records began back in the 1950s.

That's pretty stunning when you think about it. This is lower, weaker sentiment than at any point during the Great Recession. The only time it was worse than right now was three years ago, back when Americans were panicking over five dollar gas. Of course, today, gas prices are low. The problem is all of these chaotic moves out of Washington, the trade war and, of course, the turmoil on Washington.

The internals of this report were ugly. Americans marked down their views on the current situation. They're becoming less optimistic about the future. They're increasingly concerned about unemployment. And this is a number that I think is going to get the attention of officials at the Federal Reserve. Consumers are now bracing for a nearly 7 percent increase in prices over the next 12 months.

That is very high. That's a significant increase from the month before. In fact, that's the highest level since the early 1980s, back during that inflation crisis. Keyline, I want to read you about this decline in sentiment from the University of Michigan. They write that this decline was, like last month's, pervasive and unanimous across age, income, education, geographic region and political affiliation.

So this is really across the board. This was clearly a brutal report, especially for the White House. But there's economic implications here, too. Consumer spending, it's the number one engine of this economy. And if people are feeling bad enough about the economy that they start to pull back, maybe they don't take that vacation, they don't buy that car, there's going to be real economic implications.

We know that sometimes people tell pollsters they hate the economy, they keep shopping anyway. But if they do cut back spending, there could be significant trouble for the economy. Pamela?

BROWN: Yes, I think a lot of us can relate to those questions right now. What do we do? Should we -- should we wait to buy? Should we -- what do we do with our money? And given what you just laid out with the consumer sentiment and the expectation for inflation, could that be why you have several corporate leaders warning that the U.S. could be heading toward a recession or is in one?

EGAN: Yes, we heard another warning just this morning from one of the leaders on Wall Street, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink. He suggested that maybe this recession has already started. Take a listen to what Larry Fink said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we going to have a recession in the United States?

LARRY FINK, CEO, BLACKROCK: As I said on Monday in a talk that I gave at the New York Economic Club, I think we're very close, if not in a recession now. I believe all the uncertainty is really taking everyone's pause and everyone's waiting to see. And so I think we're going to see this across the board and just say slow down until we have more certainty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Yes, everyone, of course, wants more certainty, but we've gotten a lot less clarity on the tariff situation. We continue to see tariffs go higher and higher to levels that we have not seen in more than a century. The budget lab at Yale put out a new estimate where they said all the tariffs that the Trump administration have -- have imposed so far will cost the typical middle class family $3,700 per year. Just a stunning figure.

[11:05:24]

Listen, I think at the end of the day, the question is, how is the economy going to respond to all of these shocks, right? We have the price shock from the market turbulence, the trade shock from the tariff increase, and potentially a price shock on the way. And the question is whether or not this economy that has been so resilient for so long can withstand all of these shocks at the same time. Pamela?

BROWN: Right. Really quickly, Matt, it stuck out to me. The administration says these tariffs are to bring back manufacturing jobs to the United States. But when you look at the numbers, there are actually more manufacturing jobs open in the U.S. than there are people to fill those jobs right now, right?

EGAN: Yes, that speaks to one of the issues here, right? I mean, you could increase tariffs as high as you want to try to incentivize companies to spend more money on factories in the United States. But the question is whether or not there's enough qualified workers to fill all of those positions.

I talked to Mark Fields, the former CEO of Ford recently, and he said even after the Great Recession, they had trouble finding enough qualified workers to work in their assembly plants. And he said that some of the people who did work there, they ended up quitting because they didn't realize just how difficult the jobs would be. Pamela?

BROWN: Matt Egan, thank you. Wolf?

BLITZER: Excellent analysis indeed. All right. There's new reporting just coming into the Situation Room right now. We've learned that the Trump administration had private negotiations with China, warning officials there against retaliatory tariffs. But those behind-the- scenes talks evidently did not work. CNN's chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny is over at the White House watching all of this for us. Jeff, what's the reaction over there after those warnings apparently fell on deaf ears?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, they did fall on deaf ears, but it's just the latest example in the really day- by-day, the deepening trade war that is underway between the United States and China. Yes, we are learning that U.S. officials privately behind the scenes urged China to not retaliate. In fact, the Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has been saying that publicly all along, warning countries to not retaliate.

Well, those warnings have fallen on deaf ears, particularly with China, as they raised their tariffs to 125 percent. The question now is which side is going to blink, if either. And Matt was just talking about consumer confidence. The prices are going to go up. There's no question about it. That's what the White House is bracing for. That's what the administration is bracing for.

It's one of the big reasons the president had a dramatic pullback on a sweeping tariff plan just a couple of days ago. And the market, of course, reacted very well in the moment. But in a couple of days since, it certainly has not. The bond market also has not been strengthening. So this is going to be one of the central questions here.

But, Wolf, we are also learning just inside the White House, the President, as he embarks on this three-month pause on a sweeping tariff plan, there's competing views from his team of economic rivals, if you will. Scott Bessent, the Treasury Secretary, a long history on Wall Street, he is one of the people the President is listening to the most on this, of course. Kevin Hassett is as well. But Peter Navarro, the man right in the middle of the screen there, he is someone who has been very pro-supportive of these -- these tariffs. And the President did not heed his advice this week. So as the President goes forward on this, as the consumer sentiment prices rise, which adviser is going to sort of win out on this? So there's no doubt the President, at the center of all these new trade negotiations, now has to negotiate with some 90 countries or so.

So, Wolf, all of this is coming front and center here as the economy, that inflation report, the rising inflation is one of the biggest challenges, one of the biggest worries for this administration.

BLITZER: And there are so many challenges, so many worries right now. Jeff Zeleny at the White House, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: And happening now, Wolf, federal investigators are trying to figure out why a sightseeing helicopter dropped from the sky and crashed into New York's Hudson River. We want to warn you that the video you're about to see, it's disturbing. People watched in horror as the chopper broke apart, as you see, midair, all spiraling upside down and then hit the water.

The pilot and a family of five visiting from Spain, they were all killed, including three children. Just absolutely heartbreaking. CNN's Brynn Gingras is in New York for us. Brynn, what more are we learning about the victims here?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pam, some devastating details that we've learned from Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop, that this family, the father of this family, he is Agustin Escobar, 49 years old. He is a Siemens executive, Siemens being that technology company, global wide technology company. He was actually in New York City for a work conference.

[11:10:03]

And his family was coming from Spain to New York City to sort of extend their holiday, be together. And what we've understood is that they were actually taking that helicopter tour as part of his wife's 40th birthday celebration. I mean, just some devastating details.

We also learned from that mayor that, as we know, all six people were killed in this crash. Two of the children were rushed to the hospital, and it was those children who died there at the hospital. We also know a family representative is in touch with the medical examiner here in New York, hoping to get their bodies back to Spain as soon as possible for a proper burial.

At this point, Pam, we know the NTSB, their go team, they are on site right now conducting their investigation, continuing to have dive teams in the water, trying to find any other wreckage that might be pulled out of that water. We know the main body of that helicopter was pulled out of the water last night.

But this investigation is going to look at a number of things, including that video that you were just showing your viewer, a number of videos that are out there. But also, they're going to look into the maintenance records of this particular helicopter. They're going to look into the company and the upkeep of this helicopter.

Did they make any changes to the body of the helicopter, any parts that are significant? And did they keep up with any, you know, compliance issues that the FAA maybe sent out directives about this particular helicopter, any changes that they were meant to be made? And did they do that? The questions are all there. And, of course, officials there on the ground are going to be asking those questions. Hopefully, we will get some answers from the NTSB. We do expect some sort of news conference later today.

BROWN: All right, Brynn Gingras, thank you. Wolf?

BLITZER: And still ahead, the health secretary, Robert Kennedy Jr., vows his department will find and, in his word, eliminate the cause of autism soon. We'll ask a doctor about that and also about the long- term vaccine, long -- long-term vaccine -- long-time vaccines that could be effective right now and why there are so many more polls showing that Kennedy is actually a little bit more popular with mothers out there. We'll share that with you as well.

BROWN: Yes, we have Dr. Leana Wen to talk about that. So that's coming up. And also, just -- we're just hours from a judge's decision that could free Erik and Lyle Menendez from prison. You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:55]

BROWN: Happening today, President Trump is set for his annual physical exam at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. He's expected to be there most of the afternoon. Joining us now is Dr. Leana Wen. She's an emergency physician and former Baltimore Health Commissioner. She's also a contributing columnist for "The Washington Post." So, Dr. Nguyen, quickly, what will doctors be looking for?

DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: Well, we know that President Trump in the past has been diagnosed with obesity and high cholesterol, so they'll certainly be checking to see his weight, his height. They'll be looking to see whether he has developed high blood pressure, diabetes, any concerns with heart problems. And they'll probably be doing a full battery of tests, also screening for any additional risks and medical problems that would have come up in the meantime.

BROWN: All right, so let's switch -- shift gears now to the Make America Healthy Again, MAHA Movement, big supporters of Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr., HHS Secretary. And, you know, you've been on this deep dive into that community.

And at first, you thought, you know, I'm not going to have anything in common with these moms and some of their viewpoints. But to your surprise, you found that you did have some commonality with them as a fellow mom. And you noticed that there were three broad buckets that these moms seem to fall into. Tell us more about that. WEN: Yes, I was very curious about these moms who were at Kennedy's confirmation hearing and who are some of his most ardent supporters. And they're about the same age as me. They also have young kids, as I do. And so I wanted to find out more about who they are. And I found out that there's not one monolithic group, but these three categories, as you mentioned.

One are the left-leaning, crunchy moms, the ones who believe in natural lifestyle. They are drawn to Kennedy because of him wanting to ban food additives and dyes and other things like that. That's how they got into having more anti-vaccine views.

The second group are moms of children with chronic diseases who have somehow re-narrativized and have pinned some of the blame for their children's chronic disease, including on vaccines. And then the third group are right-wing, probably Trump supporters, who are proponents of so-called medical freedom. And for them, COVID was a really significant driving force in making them more skeptical of vaccines and also of medical authority.

BROWN: And so what is your view on how to connect with those -- with some of those moms, particularly those who are vaccine skeptics?

WEN: Well, I think here's what not to do. We cannot treat them as one monolith because what works for one type of MAHA mom may not work for another. We also cannot treat them with scorn or disdain because that's just going to make them even have more hardened in their opposition.

But what could work is to try to find areas of common ground. For example, trying to get rid of ultra-processed food and aiming for better nutrition in our kids or better funding chronic disease research. Those are things that there is common ground for.

And perhaps in working together on those projects, that might be a way to reestablish credibility, including with medical professionals. And also, it's an opportunity to identify people whom the MAHA moms who believe in much of what Kennedy says around chemicals or pesticides, but who may not be fully anti-vaccine and may be convinced to get the childhood vaccines that would protect themselves and their families.

[11:20:21]

BROWN: Yes. And while we're talking about vaccines, you know, one of the key things that these moms, some of them, I should say, because they're a mom Monolith, as you point out, one of the things they've zeroed in on is this debunked theory connecting vaccine safety and autism. As we know, there has been study after study that -- that shows no link between the two. But HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. touched on this during a cabinet meeting yesterday. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: We've launched a massive testing and research effort that's going to involve hundreds of scientists from around the world. By September, we will know what has caused the autism epidemic and we'll be able to eliminate those exposures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Look, I think we're all in favor. If that can happen, that's great, right? But is that realistic?

WEN: Well, I'd be curious to understand better about the methodology of the study or studies that Secretary Kennedy is proposing and who are the scientists who are going to be conducting the studies as well. I think it's a good thing for us to find out more about autism. What I would hate to see, though, is if we are -- if we are continuing to -- to talk about autism and vaccines, where more than two dozen studies in the past have looked into this question spanning millions of children and have found no connection.

And it would really be a shame if taxpayer dollars are wasted on looking at this issue when actually we can be looking for what are the real causes of autism and very importantly, how to treat, how to better treat and address children with autistic spectrum disorders.

BROWN: All right, Dr. Leana Wen, thank you so much. Always great to see you. Wolf?

WEN: Thank you.

BLITZER: And up next, Pamela, what's next for the conservative wing of American politics after a decade of rapid transformation under President Trump?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:26:38]

BLITZER: President Trump isn't even three months into his second term, but so far it's been a turbulent, unpredictable, and often unprecedented term. And this isn't, Pamela, just an administration that has just veered wildly from tradition.

BROWN: Yep, that's right, Wolf. And our next guest claims that Trumpism has replaced conservatism's core values with just one, the raw pursuit of power. David Brooks is a contributing writer for The Atlantic and a New York Times columnist. Thank you for coming on. So I want to share a line from your cover story in next month's issue of The Atlantic. Quote, when I joined the conservative moment in 1980s there were two types of people, those who cared earnestly about ideas and those who wanted only to shock the left. The reactionary fringe has won, end quote. How has that impacted your view of the America we live in today?

DAVID BROOKS, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: It's shocked me. Well, I -- I guess the last three months have been shocking. Zelenskyy Day, Liberation Day, the trade -- when the trade tariffs were announced. You know, I've always had a certain idea of America that we're fundamentally a good country. We have our serious flaws and we make mistakes like Vietnam and Iraq. But when we make those mistakes, we make them out of idealism, overconfidence, stupidity, but not out of evil intention.

And what I've seen is a government that seems to just want to cause suffering. There's a line in George Orwell's 1984 dystopian novel where one of the apparatchiks in the power apparatus says, we don't have a vision of the good. We just power -- we just want to amass power. And how do you know you have power? It's not just obedience. You have to cause suffering. You have to cause other people suffering.

And so over the last couple of months, we've seen suffering in Ukraine, suffering among our friends and allies, and this morning suffering in consumer sentiment. And so tariffs are a form of amassing power. And that's what we're in the middle of.

BLITZER: I want to follow up on that, David. You've also been taken aback, as you correctly point out, by how the Trump administration has treated both friends and allies, punitive tariffs on neighboring countries, good friends like Canada and Mexico, public scolding of European leaders, and the stiff arming of Ukraine as it fights Russia's invasion. You describe what you are feeling as, quote, moral shame. In the eyes of the world, do you really believe America's honor is now being badly damaged?

BROOKS: Oh, absolutely. I have been talking to Europeans and Asians and Africans over the last couple months, and they are saying, you, we can -- even if Trump goes away, we can never trust America again. You're always four years away from potentially electing another Donald Trump. And so I would say to them, you mean it's like that Taylor Swift song, we are never getting back together? And they are right. Absolutely. We are never getting back together. And so I don't know if that attitude will last, but that's the attitude in the world today.

[11:29:39]

BROWN: Wow, that's certainly alarming. I read your op-ed in "The New York Times," and you lay out the case that there's really a crisis of critical thinking in America right now. You write, quote, what happen -- what happens when people lose the ability to reason or render good judgments. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Donald Trump's tariff policy. I've never seen a policy as stupid as this one. It is based on false assumptions. It rests on no coherent argument in its favor. I mean, this is a scathing indictment of the Trump team.