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Bondi Says Abrego Garcia Not Coming Back to Our Country; Two Top Pentagon Officials on Leave; Hamas Lost Contact with Militants Holding Edan Alexander. Aired 11-12p ET

Aired April 16, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, the White House remaining defiant in the deportation case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. His case now at the center of the president's campaign to deport immigrants.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in the Situation Room.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BLITZER: And we begin this hour with breaking news. The attorney general of the United States, Pam Bondi, delivering a devastating blow to the Maryland father mistakenly deported and now imprisoned in his native El Salvador. Bondi saying Kilmar Abrego Garcia is, quote, "not coming back to our country." It's a direct quote.

BROWN: Just hours earlier, a federal judge demanded the White House show if it's done anything to bring him back for her order. The judge saying, quote, "to date what the record shows is nothing has been done." Abrego Garcia has become the face of President Trump's aggressive campaign to round up and deport immigrants without due process.

BLITZER: CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Katelyn Polantz is here with us in the Situation Room. Katelyn, how do you think the judge will view this apparent pushback from the attorney General?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf and Pam, what we heard yesterday in court from this judge, Judge Paula Xinis in the federal court in Maryland, was that, yes, there may be things that the attorney general is saying in public that even the president of the United States is saying in the Oval Office about this case, but that's not what's before the court.

So, what the judge is doing is she's gathering evidence and it very well may include what Attorney General Bondi said today that the U.S. would be willing to send a plane if El Salvador wants to release Kilmar Abrego Garcia back to the United States. He's a citizen of El Salvador, but when he was in deportation proceedings before the U.S. had decided he shouldn't go back to his home country. And so, he was mistakenly sent there in mid-March. But here is what the president of El Salvador said just on Monday in

the Oval Health Office sitting next to Trump and Attorney General Bondi, who was also in the Oval Office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAYIB BUKELE, EL SALVADORIAN PRESIDENT: Well, I can't -- I'm supposed to have not suggesting that I smuggle the terrorism into the United States, right? How can I smuggle -- how can I return him to the United States? Like I smuggle him into the United States or what do I do? Of course, I'm not going to do it. It's like -- I mean, the -- is -- the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist in the United States? I don't have the power to return him to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: Now, the court order though is that the U.S. must facilitate his return to the U.S. The judge says this is quite clear and says it's not enough just for the U.S. now to make the argument in court that they're removing domestic obstacles and could potentially send a plane that they must do more and show more evidence.

BLITZER: So, Katelyn, what specifically will the Trump administration be expected to provide to the court?

POLANTZ: Yes. So, we are now watching to see over the next couple weeks how there may be evidence that's turned over from the Justice Department of the Trump administration to Abrego Garcia's attorneys, and then potentially to the public, providing them information in court that includes questions that they will need to answer, documents that they'll need to turn over, and then potentially depositions.

[11:05:00]

There are so many things here that they want to build a record so that we can see what happens next in court.

BROWN: Let me just follow up with you just for a fact check, because we had Rep. McCormick on from Georgia and he repeated the administration's line that Abrego Garcia did have due process and that he lost his deportation case twice. That's not exactly correct. What can you tell us about that?

POLANTZ: Well, the administration is saying that they have changed their policy about MS13. And so, that makes it a different situation now for Abrego Garcia than whenever he went through his immigration proceedings in 2019. And the findings there in 2019 where that he had shown the court that he would be persecuted or harmed if he were sent back to El Salvador. So, he was able to be deported as someone in the United States unlawfully, but that was the country he was not able to go to.

And what this is all about, it's not just about this one person, this one case, it's about due process. It's about whether these people's concerns, whether people in the immigration system are being able to properly put forth their evidence, their arguments, and that there are checks before the administration may just say, OK, you're going to the prison in El Salvador.

BROWN: Right. Because he made the argument, well, you know, others deported that they go to Venezuela, they might go to prison. But the difference here is that he didn't have the opportunity to file a complaint, a habeas complaint and go before an immigration judge. So, there was no due process.

POLANTZ: Or even have his immigration status changed in some way that this was just sending him to the Salvador prison where he was not supposed to go. And the administration says quite clearly in court, that was a mistake. Now --

BROWN: Under penalty of perjury.

POLANTZ: Right. But now, he's a citizen of El Salvador. They have him in their hands. The judge says you should be doing more. The U.S. says, what more can we do? Bukele says, they're not setting him back.

BLITZER: We'll certainly stay on top of this important story. Katelyn, thank you very, very much.

BROWN: It raises really important constitutional questions for sure. To the Pentagon now where CNN has just learned that a second top political appointee is now under investigation and being placed on administrative leave. We reported just yesterday that a senior adviser to defense secretary Pete Hegseth is being investigated for an alleged, quote, "unauthorized disclosure of information."

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is live at the Pentagon. So, Natasha, what are officials saying, if anything, about why this deputy chief of staff is being investigated?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know very little at this point about what actually caused these two officials to be placed on administrative leave, short of the idea that both of them are under investigation for an alleged unauthorized disclosure of information.

Now, as you said, we reported yesterday that Dan Caldwell, who was a very senior adviser to Secretary Hegseth, has known him for many, many years, the two are considered to be very close, was placed on administrative leave as part of this leak probe. And just today, we are also learning that a second top political appointee here at the Pentagon, Darin Selnick, who was performing the duties just last month of the undersecretary of defense for readiness and personnel and is now the Pentagon's deputy chief of staff, has also been placed on administrative leave.

And so, as part of all of this, obviously, you know, we have to look back at this memo that was issued by the Pentagon's chief of staff, Hegseth's chief of staff, just last month following the disclosure of a briefing that Elon Musk was set to receive about China here at the Pentagon, that was leaked. And following that, a big leak investigation was launched here at DOD to try to determine whether anyone was disclosing information to reporters.

Well, now we see that two of the senior most officials surrounding Secretary Hegseth have been placed on leave pending this investigation, but we still don't know exactly what they are being accused of disclosing. And so, for now, the Pentagon is saying, look, the investigation is ongoing and they're declining to provide any more information at this point, Pam.

BROWN: All right. Natasha, thank you. Wolf.

BLITZER: Turning out Gaza, Pamela, where Hamas now says it is studying Israel's latest ceasefire proposal. It could see the release of additional hostages, including Edan Alexander, the last living American hostage being held in Gaza. But now, Hamas' military wing claims they have lost contact with the militants holding Alexander after they after they say Israel bombed the place where he was being held. CNN cannot independently verify that claim from Hamas.

I want to go live to CNN's Jeremy Diamond right now. He is joining us from Tel Aviv. Jeremy, what's the latest that you are hearing from your sources?

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JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, Wolf, we have this claim from Hamas that they have lost contact with the militants who have been holding Edan Alexander captive. They say that they lost contact with them after Israel carried out a bombardment of the location where he was being held and that they are, quote, "still trying to reach them." But we cannot independently verify those claims being made by Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades.

And it's also important to note that the Al-Qassam Brigades have previously lied about the fate of at least one hostage before, that was back in November when they released the image of what they said was the body of a female hostage wrapped in a white cloth that was stained with what looks like red blood at the time. Her family identified her based on a tattoo on her arm, and that turned out to be Daniella Gilboa, who was actually released, Wolf, alive earlier this year during this latest ceasefire agreement. She later explained that she was forced to stage her own death for that photograph, which led her family to believe that she had in fact been killed in captivity.

So, you know, while there have been times where the Al-Qassam Brigades have made correct and true statements about the fate of the hostages, there have been other times where they have clearly lied in order to try and influence Israeli public opinion about the war in the state of negotiations. And indeed, they're releasing this information at a time when Israel and Hamas are, you know, back in kind of intense negotiations over a new ceasefire proposal that could see the release of 10 living Israeli hostages, 16 bodies of hostages in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners and detainees. But there are many, many gaps that still remain between these two sides, Wolf.

And so, we don't have any sense that there is any kind of imminent agreement here, given the sticking points that do indeed still remain. And as long as there is no ceasefire, Wolf, Israel has committed to not allowing anything to enter Gaza right now. And we are seeing those humanitarian conditions in the Strip rapidly deteriorating. Nothing has gotten into Gaza since March 2nd, no food, no water, electricity, medical supplies, all of it has been blocked by Israel from getting into Gaza.

And of course, Wolf, the families of those 59 hostages who still remain in Gaza, they remain in a state of agony as they watch this kind of back and forth of these negotiations. Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Jeremy Diamond reporting from Tel Aviv for us. Jeremy, thank you very, very much.

BROWN: And just into our newsroom, the White House is calling a Democratic senator a, quote, "disgrace" for traveling to El Salvador to discuss the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. We'll get reaction from a Democratic lawmaker up next.

BLITZER: Plus, new information coming in to the Situation Room from the CDC about autism rates among children here in the United States. Stay with us. You're in the Situation Room.

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[11:15:00]

BLITZER: More now in our top story, the Trump administration defiantly insisting Kilmar Abrego Garcia will remain in El Salvador as the legal controversy around his mistaken deportation reaches a fever pitch right now. Joining us now, the Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman of New York. He's a key member of the House Judiciary Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

Given the Supreme Court's relatively vague language about, quote, "facilitating" Abrego Garcia's return to the United States rather than effectuating it, are you surprised White House officials are now flatly saying they'll leave him in that notorious Salvadorian prison?

REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D-NY), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Well, I think the vagueness is really with the effectuate and whether or not a court can order the executive branch to actually effectuate the return of someone from a foreign country. But there is no dispute or vagueness about the court's 9-0 order that the Trump administration must facilitate his return to the United States because he did not receive due process and was, by the administration's admission, illegally and wrongly deported.

And through the court appearances or the court filings this week, there's been no indication that the administration has done anything to facilitate his removal. And let's be real, they are -- we, the United States, taxpayers are paying for Mr. Abrego Garcia to remain in that torture chamber of a prison in El Salvador.

If the Bukele will not release him, and I don't quite understand why he won't if he's asked, then we would stop -- just stop paying him for Mr. Abrego Garcia. That would certainly be facilitating it. That's something within our power. And this is just flouting the Supreme Court by President Trump after admitting to an egregious mistake. And this is un-American and it's unconstitutional. BLITZER: But if the Supreme Court actually wanted to order the Trump administration to bring Abrego Garcia home, why didn't they directly and clearly say so? Why did they use such relatively vague language?

GOLDMAN: Well, the language was in the discord opinion, facilitate and effectuate, and I think the Supreme Court is worried about the separation of powers and ordering the president, the executive branch to do anything related to foreign policy.

[11:20:00]

But, Wolf, let's step away for a minute from the legal technicalities. This is just a basic issue of fundamental fairness. This person was illegally and wrongfully deported because in part he didn't get due process. If he had due process, this would not have happened. He was effectively disappeared to a foreign country, put in a horrific jail with people that whom his own fear of persecution from is the reason why he wasn't able to be deported to El Salvador. We have no idea what his status is right now.

This is just human decency. Return the guy to America. Let him go through whatever due process he deserves, but stop insisting on this egregious, unconstitutional behavior and just do the right thing, forget about the courts.

BLITZER: And his wife in Maryland is a U.S. citizen. His kids are U.S. citizens. Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, as you know, Congressman, is traveling to El Salvador to try to advocate for Abrego Garcia's release, which the White House is calling that visit a complete disgrace. Do you think the visit by the senator and his delegation will be effective? Do you have any hope this man will ever come back to Maryland?

GOLDMAN: I do applaud Senator Van Hollen for taking the initiative to go down there, right to the source of the issue. Mr. -- President Bukele is way out over his skis here and trying to suck up to Donald Trump. And I would advise both the president of the United States and the president of El Salvador to heed Senator Van Hollen's demand that Mr. Abrego Garcia simply be returned to the United States where he should have been all along so that he can go through the proper process.

And I think Senator Van Hollen bringing attention to this is an effective way of elevating just the basic human indecency that we're seeing from President Trump.

BLITZER: He's doing this on behalf of a resident of Maryland to be sure. While I have you, Congressman, and you're a member of the Judiciary Committee, let me get your thoughts on President Trump's threat to deport Americans, U.S. citizens who commit violent crimes. Do you see any legal basis at all for that kind of action?

GOLDMAN: No, of course not. It's absurd. It's ridiculous. But it is yet more authoritarian talk from Donald Trump, which is becoming a very, very frequent occurrence. He's ordering the Department of Justice to investigate his enemies. He's now threatening to deport American citizens.

This is stuff of dictators. This is not the stuff of democratically elected presidents. And it's time that the American people recognize that this is all part of a pattern of Donald Trump to whittle away at our fundamental democratic values and institutions so that he can take over full power of the federal government, and Congress and the Republicans in Congress have completely exceeded to his wishes and turned over all of their own authority to Donald Trump.

There is no check and no balance from Congress, which is why we are talking about the courts, because the courts are the only check right now on the president's overreaching and destructive and devastating actions, which seem to happen every single day.

BLITZER: Amidst all of this, there's a legal controversy right now, Congressman, over the data sharing deal between the Internal Revenue Service, the IRS, and immigration authorities. In your view, is that arrangement legal?

GOLDMAN: No. No, it's not. There's actually very -- there are very strict rules on the confidentiality of tax information. And you may recall when the Democrats in the House of Representatives tried to get Donald Trump's tax returns, their -- they had to go through significant hoops under Section 6103 in order to justify that they could -- even in Congress, which has oversight authority, could even get the tax returns.

The notion that this private information that was promised to undocumented immigrants who want to assimilate, who want to integrate themselves into our society so much so that they are voluntarily and eagerly paying taxes into our system, $9 billion of taxes are paid by undocumented immigrants, and they were promised that that information would be shielded from immigration authorities.

[11:25:00]

Now, this Trump administration is going back yet again on another guarantee, another promise, something else that the American people and those living here rely on in order to effectuate, and I'll use that word intentionally, their immigration policy. They clearly are not shy about using their power, I guess, except when it comes to Mr. Abrego Garcia.

BLITZER: Congressman Dan Goldman of New York, thanks so much for joining us.

GOLDMAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As the --

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