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Judge Boasberg Finds Probable Cause to Hold Trump Admin in Contempt; Sen. Van Hollen Denied a Meeting with Abrego Garcia; Carmakers Handling Tariff Uncertainty; Trump Threatens the Fed. Chair Jerome Powell with Termination. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 17, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this morning a big escalation between President Trump and the federal courts district. Judge James Boasberg ruled yesterday that probable cause exists to hold the Trump administration in contempt for violating his order to stop last month's deportation flights of alleged Venezuelan gang members to El Salvador. The Justice Department is appealing that ruling.

And joining us now is CNN Legal Analyst and Former Federal Prosecutor Elliot Williams. Elliot, why do you think the judge didn't just officially hold them in contempt of court here and just said that there's probable cause?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, ICE AND FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, because there has to be more findings in order for him to do that. Now, the big picture, in order to hold a party in contempt, the judge has to find that he issued an order, that that order was violated in some way and that that violation was willful. And most of the time, and I would expect that here, and this is what the judge is doing, you give the parties -- the judge would give the parties a chance to cure that contempt, give them a chance to actually comply.

[10:35:00]

That's what the judge has done here, rather than just slapping handcuffs on people or something like that.

BROWN: Could President Trump's prosecutors end up being prosecuted here?

WILLIAMS: Oh heavens. It's highly unlikely that anyone gets prosecuted for a number of reasons. One, the Justice Department would have to do it, and I just can't imagine that they'd prosecute, you know, their own folks. But moreover, I believe only by my count twice in American history of government officials been sort of thrown in jail for actions in court, and both of those times, you know, the judge got in trouble and backed off it. It's far more likely, if anything happens here, that there would be money penalties assessed on either the agencies here at Department of Homeland Security, Department of State, or some of the officials. So, money is a likely penalty. Jail time really isn't. BROWN: Do you think the administration has a strong argument here, though, that it did comply to the written order and not the oral order?

WILLIAMS: Well, the oral order was still and order, and we should be clear that when a judge speaks that, you know, has the effect of law. You know, if you read Judge Boasberg opinion, he really does lay out in meticulous detail, one, when the plaintiffs reached out to the government and told them and asked a series of questions that weren't answered, then the judge followed up with questions, then issued an oral order, then a written order. He really lays this out quite meticulously.

You know, it's hard to see what the government was doing here, but certainly, they have an opportunity to plead their case and appeal it and, you know, state their side of the story. But right now, the judge's order is quite compelling, suggesting that the government was trying to evade an order from him.

BROWN: It will not be a surprise if this ends up in the Supreme Court, obviously. I want to turn to this ICE video of an agent smashing the window of a Guatemalan man who said he was waiting for his lawyer to arrive. That attorney told CNN what she told her client as ICE surrounded the car. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ONDINE GALVEZ SNIFFIN, JUAN FRANCISCO MENDEZ'S ATTORNEY: You have my card, you have the red card, which says they choose to exert their right to remain silent. I said, show them that. Tell them I'm on my way and I will explain your situation to them. But you have the right to remain silent. You have the right to have your attorney present with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: based on the information we know, did ICE act lawfully in this situation?

WILLIAMS: It's just hard to tell now. And you know, Pam, this is really a Fourth Amendment, it's like search and seizure exam question because of how many very fraught things here. One, ICE agents have a tremendous amount of authority to act and to use the sort of least aggressive force that they can. Now, it's hard to say that they did that here, but remember, this is an individual in an automobile, which, you know, could be a means of fleeing, could be itself a weapon. Both sides have compelling arguments here.

Now, that video, based on what we've seen, does not look good for the government. But again, it's just hard to know what transpired before it. But just stepping back, even under the -- even -- no matter how this plays out, even if he does recover from the government, if he is unlawfully present in the country, you know, winning from the government doesn't cure that. He might still end up removed.

BROWN: All right. Well, that brings me to this next question on the ongoing case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man the administration said was mistakenly deported to El Salvador. Now, the administration is adamant he will never return to the U.S. and has tried to paint him as a violent criminal without providing the proof. He has not been convicted or charged, although there was an informant saying that he was a member of the MS13 gang in 2019. He has denied that. But why is this such an important case from a legal and constitutional perspective?

WILLIAMS: Right. And I'll agree with the government, he very well might be a violent criminal. However --

BROWN: We don't know, exactly.

WILLIAMS: -- in the United --

BROWN: And we should be clear on that.

WILLIAMS: Right. Absolutely. And in the United States, even violent criminals or even violent criminal aliens who are not lawfully present are entitled to a modicum of due process from the government and not skirted away from the country in the dead of night, spirited away in the dead of night.

And so, by all means, you know, if this individual is afforded the process that anyone else would be entitled to, certainly he could be removed. And I'd be the first -- having worked at ICE, I'd be the first to acknowledge that he may not end up coming -- you know, being allowed to stay permanently in the United States. But that's not an immediate decision that can be made by any one party. We have an entire immigration and federal court system to sort questions like this out.

I think getting lost in this is this notion that because there are these allegations of serious gang membership that we have to throw all the rules out the door, and that's just simply not how either are immigration or quite frankly, criminal systems work in this country.

[10:40:00]

BROWN: Yes. I mean, we just saw it this week with the horrific and heartbreaking case of Rachel Morin, right, that the mother of five who was killed by an immigrant here illegally, that he's a murderer. And in that case, he had a trial due process, right, to your point about that. Like even the worst of the worst can get due process in this country. Elliot Williams, thank you so much. Wolf.

WILLIAMS: Take care, Pam.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And just ahead CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is live from the New York Auto Show as carmakers are trying to figure out how they'll handle tariff uncertainty.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. We're here at the New York Auto Show where the talk of the show is tariffs. I'm here sitting in a Ford Bronco Sport. The company is warning suppliers that higher prices are coming soon. We'll tell you when after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

BROWN: Breaking news, taking a live look right here on your screen at the markets, the Dow is down about 600 points, a little over. Markets have been rattled after a warning from Fed Chair Jerome Powell about the impact the president's trade war could have on the U.S. economy. President Trump promised the tariffs would, among other things, force foreign and domestic automakers to build in the U.S. However, potential customers, Wall Street investors and automakers are all concerned over tightening supply and rising costs in the midterm.

BLITZER: Ford warning in a memo sent yesterday to dealerships around the country prepare for higher prices on new vehicles if President Trump's 25 percent tariff on imported cars and imported car parts remain in shape -- in place. For more on all of this, we're joined now by CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich. She's joining us from the Auto Show in New York.

Vanessa, can you walk us through potential price increases for cars? Lots of people in this country are worried about that. Give us a sense of what's going on where you are.

YURKEVICH: Yes. Well, the talk of the auto show is tariffs, Wolf. And I'm in a Ford Bronco Sport right now. This is a car that is fully assembled in Mexico and brought across the border, but the engine is made in the United States, but that doesn't make a difference. This car, coming over, starting now into the United States is now getting hit with a 25 percent tariff. That's that foreign car import tax that's now in place.

As you mentioned, Ford sent a memo to their dealers saying that they expect prices to rise starting in June. That is because they have enough inventory, new inventory already in the United States right now. But once June rolls around, that's going to become problematic for Ford.

Take a look at the Bronco here. This is a car that's made in Michigan. However, a bunch of the parts that are in this car are foreign parts. And now, automakers, including Ford, are bracing for foreign parts to be taxed at a 25 percent tariff starting on May 3rd. The president has said though, that he may make some exemptions, but that is what we're hearing car manufacturers are most concerned about.

We're now in GM land, General Motors land over here. These are two vehicles over here that are fully assembled right here in the United States. However, they also have foreign car parts. And I just want to end over here on -- at Nissan, because this is important. Nissan is a foreign car manufacturer based in Japan. On the left, you see the Ariya. That car right there is manufactured in Japan, brought over the ocean right here to the United States, getting hit with a 25 percent tariff. But right next to it you have the Nissan Altima. This is manufactured in the United States. But Wolf, this car, again, has foreign car parts. You can just see within a short radius here just how complex and how sort of messy this whole situation is as auto manufacturers and dealers and suppliers and consumers are just trying to make sense of this all, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, Vanessa, I take it, whether you buy a Ford or a Chevy or a Toyota or a Mercedes or a Volvo, it's going to wind up costing more because of Trump's tariffs?

YURKEVICH: Exactly. Whether it's an American manufacturer who makes cars in the U.S. but uses foreign parts or a foreign manufacturer that imports vehicles, right now, if these tariffs go into effect on May 3rd on foreign car parts, everyone's getting hit and it's going to cost consumers more, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Vanessa Yurkevich at the Auto Show in New York, thank you very much for that report. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

BLITZER: We're following the breaking news. President Trump threatening the Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell with termination, just one day after Powell warned that Trump's trade war could have truly devastating consequences for the U.S. economy.

Let's discuss this and more with Democratic Congresswoman Shelly Pingree of Maine. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. If the president actually fires Powell, what could that do to the Central Bank's independence?

REP. CHELLIE PINGREE (D-ME), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: Look, there is already so much financial turmoil going on, whether it's the stock market or the bond market. I think this would cause an incredible upset just as his tariffs have caused in my state and across the country.

BLITZER: The chairman, Powell, warned the president's trade policy could lead to higher inflation and slower growth if tariffs remain in effect. How are businesses in your district bracing for that possibility, and you're in Maine, and do you see a global recession as a likely outcome as well?

PINGREE: Well, we're certainly hearing more people talk about a global recession. And just bringing it back to my State of Maine, you know, we're surrounded by three different Canadian provinces. So, we have great concerns above and beyond what's going on in many other states. But I've heard from so many business people that they don't know how their supply chain is going to go. They're worried about their own exports.

You know, we have some very specific industries, wild blueberries, lobsters, softwood lumber that are extremely dependent on our trade with Canada, but also there is some impact with China. We also have ship buildings. So, steel and aluminum. You know, there are just so many things to take into consideration. And people didn't expect this out of the president. Maybe he talked about tariffs, but they thought it would be a more sensible move. They thought it was to bring back manufacturing and it would be done in a systemic way. This is so chaotic. Nobody knows what to predict. And in terms of our Canadian neighbors, they're just mad at us all the time.

[10:55:00]

BLITZER: As you know, Congresswoman, many of your fellow Democrats have been criticized for not having a unified position on Trump's trade war. For example, your fellow Maine Democrat congressman, Jared Golden, has largely been supportive of these various tariffs. Does your party need a more coherent message?

PINGREE: Look, trade is complicated and tariffs are complicated. And one of the reasons my colleague feels that way is because Maine is one of those states that was really damaged by NAFTA. We lost a lot of our manufacturing, and there's still people who are hoping that tariffs will bring back manufacturing, and I fully understand that. It's just the way the president is going about doing it that is so chaotic, that doesn't make an investment in manufacturing and doesn't think about all the other things that we're concerned about, about raw materials, about labor markets. You know, there's a lot that has to go on to make sure you can have stable manufacturing in our state.

So, the idea that we would have a coherent message or there's just one way to go about doing this, that's just not true. I would say most Democrats are opposed to the tariffs, but you're not going to get a hundred percent on anything. And there are some arguments about why tariffs could be useful if they were used well.

BLITZER: Good point. Congresswoman Shelley Pingree of Maine, thanks so much for joining us.

PINGREE: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: Thank you. And we'll have more news when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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