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FSU Cancels Classes While School Heals Following Deadly Incident; Wrongfully Deported Man in El Salvador Visited by Sen. Van Hollen; RFK Jr.'s Push to Remove Fluoride; Several States Reported More Than 650 Measles Cases, Including Three Fatalities. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired April 18, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: On the FSU campus in Tallahassee this morning, tributes are appearing following yesterday's mass shooting. There are two people were killed and six others wounded. All six are expected to recover from their injuries. And according to the county sheriff, the suspected shooter is the son of one of their deputies.

CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller joins us now. Here's the county sheriff talking about the suspected shooter. Let's listen.

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SHERIFF WALTER MCNEIL, LEON COUNTY, FLORIDA: The alleged shooter was also a long-standing member of Leon County Sheriff's Office Citizen Advisory or Youth Advisory Council. So, he has been steep in the Leon County Sheriff's Office family engaged in a number of training programs that we have. So, it's not a surprise to us that he had access to weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: You know, our hearts go out, obviously, to the victims and their families, but you also have to wonder about how that larger extended community is feeling as well, given how involved the suspect was there.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's true, and I mean, as the campus reels from this incident you know, there was an event scheduled for 5:00 p.m. tonight at the Social Services Center, How to Build a Safer Campus for FSU.

And this event was organized in memory of a student and a teacher who were killed by an active shooter at a yoga studio in 2018 that affected the campus. And that event has now had to be canceled because of the trauma emerging from yesterday's events.

BROWN: You know, you have to raise the question. The mother -- the sheriff's deputy, he's the son and he was involved in all these programs there. Could his mother face consequences for not securing the gun from the suspected shooter?

MILLER: You know, Pam, Florida has a safe storage law for firearms, but that is applicable in homes where the children are under the age of 16. This is a 20-year-old son of an 18-year-old veteran of the sheriff's department, that makes him an adult. And that weapon that he used was one of three he had. So, had he not had access to that he would have had access to the others.

It's doubtful she'll face criminal charges for that. And as you well know, we've seen that in other states, in other incidences because of the particular circumstances here. But there will be the potential for civil liability depending on what did she know about the state of mind of her son? What were the signs or the tells where he would've had access to those weapons.

BROWN: Because we're also learning that the suspect, at one point, was asked to leave a political science club due to his alleged behavior. He also apparently posted biblical quotes online that referenced war. Could that potentially be a case for some of what he was saying or doing, should have been a warning sign to those around him?

MILLER: So, it's possible. Now, the Political Science Club, he's a political science major, and this was a couple of years ago where his statements and opinions were so strident within that discussion group that some other people left the club because they found it intimidating. And you know, the individual that we interviewed with our Omar Jimenez last night said it was beyond conservatism. He was railing against multiculturalism and communism, destroying our country.

So, eventually he was asked to leave the club. But I think what they're going to be looking at is what were the current stressors in his life? What are we going to find behind that social media feed that he has? What will we see in the computer?

[10:35:00]

And one of the things they'll be looking for is if he intended to do this shooting, knowing he'd be confronted by law enforcement. And if he didn't surrender his weapons at -- on those commands that he'd be shot and likely killed. He survived, obviously. Did he leave behind a message about what this is all about? And that's one of the things they are looking for. Is it there?

BROWN: John Miller, thank you so much.

Just ahead, we were talking with a member of the House's China committee about President Trump's latest salvo in his trade war with Beijing and the impact on Americans.

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[10:40:00] BROWN: Back to the legal and political saga over the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. President Trump this morning is attacking Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, as a quote, "Full and a grandstander," after he met with the mistakenly deported man in El Salvador by the administration's own admission.

Let's discuss that and more with Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. Thanks for coming on. So, do you think this meeting Van Hollen had with Abrego Garcia will actually lead to anything substantive?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL), OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM COMMITTEE AND INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I hope. I hope that his return is facilitated. I'm glad that Senator Van Hollen met with. Made sure that he was OK. Obviously, his family is represented by Senator Van Hollen and Maryland. But I think the bigger points here, Pamela, were outlined by Judge Wilkinson, a Reagan appointee, a conservative Republican judge in the fourth circuit who basically asked the question, you know, is the executive branch going to obey the rule of law because the Supreme Court has asked for his return to be facilitated, Abrego Garcia's.

And then secondly, what's to prevent this White House from deporting an American citizen, quote/unquote, "Mistakenly," and then that person not being able to return? And so, we're just going into a sense of chaos right now, again, which is mirrored in the markets and the economy, but now also with the rule of law.

BROWN: In the Oval Office this week, El Salvador President said he essentially couldn't release Abrego Garcia. He didn't have the power to. What do you make of his decision then to allow this meeting with the U.S. Senator, but then insist he'll remain in his country's custody?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: You know, I think that this is an authoritarian, dictator, basically playing around with, you know, basically American interests and thumbing his nose at us. And I think that the courts will continue to do what they have to do in terms of mandating or facilitating this person's return.

But we and the public need to continue to shine a light on this central issue of, you know, is the White House and the executive branch going to obey the rule of law. I think most Americans want that and they don't want to see ultimately American citizens potentially deported because the White House views them as undesirable and then they claim they can't bring them back.

BROWN: Right. So, just to follow up on that, last night, White House Aide Stephen Miller said that this case shows Democrats care more about illegal immigrants than U.S. citizens. How do you respond to that?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, I think it's -- we care about the rule of law, I think we care about the executive branch obeying court orders. And again, Mr. Miller who is the architect of this particular situation, doesn't want to talk about, I think, their ultimate aim, which is some process whereby they start to target people who are American citizens here on American soil. And potentially --

BROWN: That's a big claim and I know that's just to -- sorry to interrupt, but I know, and I know the judge has sort of alluded that. But that's obviously a big claim right there, that they would start plucking U.S. citizens. Tell me more about why you think that's where we're headed.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Remember, Trump brought that up in his discussion with Bukele, the ruler of El Salvador --

BROWN: Right, the homegrown criminals.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Right. And so, I think that this is something that we have to be concerned about. I don't think that it's just abstract. And I think it's something that everybody should be concerned about because it could be, you know, someone else who might look like you and me the administration claims is somehow part of a gang, and then they deport that person without due process.

Ultimately, however, I think the president is trying to distract a lot of attention from kind of the chaos in the economy, the tariffs that are wreaking havoc on businesses as well as consumers and investors. And I think that overall, my constituents are reaching out to me and saying they just feel like things are out of control right now.

BROWN: And we know that Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, is looking at the law surrounding this. I'm just wondering, given what you're hearing from constituents, your constituents who are so worried right now, what are you going to do for them? Obviously, Democrats only have so much power right now. You don't have the majority and Congress, you know, what can you do? What is within your power that your constituents want you to do right now?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think -- well, first of all, helping people individually who have been potentially swept up or targeted.

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We have legal residents, legal permanent residents, green card holders, who are now concerned that they might be targeted by this administration. So, trying to work with them in whatever way shape or form to protect them.

And then secondly in Congress, we and our colleagues have to continue to shine a light on the harm that the administration is doing to our justice system, to our rule of law, and kind of try to make sure that people in -- even in the mainstream are aware of this because I think that the more that they are, public sentiment will shift against kind of these practices which seem to be at odds with the rule of law.

BROWN: All right, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thank you very much for your time and have a nice weekend.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much, Pamela.

BROWN: Coming up, the health secretary's push to remove fluoride from our water is meeting resistance from some medical groups. We're going to talk with the writer, a doctor of a new op-ed that says neither side is telling the whole story.

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BROWN: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has raised eyebrows by saying that he will soon direct the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to stop recommending that fluoride be added to drinking water. The controversial Secretary of Health and Human Services would reverse public -- decades of public health policy citing potential health risks of fluoride.

Our next guest says, RFK Jr. may not be so wrong. Dr. Leana Wen is a former Baltimore Health Commissioner and contributing columnist at the Washington Post. Thank you so much. So, I was reading your op-ed this morning on this topic, and I want to go to some of what you wrote that this may be a good time to reevaluate fluoride in drinking water. Saying, quote, "Drinking water used to be the primary vehicle to deliver the minerals, which strengthens tooth enamel and helps reverse early decay, but widespread adoption of fluoride toothpaste and other fluoride containing oral products change that," end quote.

Do you think we've seen a shift in the benefit to risk ratio through the decades?

DR. LEANA WEN, WASHINGTON POST CONTRIBUTING COLUMNIST, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, AND FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER: I do, and I'm glad that we're discussing this issue because it is something that's complex where neither side is exactly right. So, it is true that before 1975 that there was a very clear benefit to fluoride in drinking water, that it reduced dental decay, it improved oral health and that effect was traumatic.

But after 1975, that effect is much less clear because of fluoride containing toothpaste and the availability of fluoride in other places. And it's actually for this reason that many other countries, including Sweden and Denmark and Germany have stopped adding fluoride to drinking water.

And there's another component here too, Pamela, which is that there has been research in the last several years that have shown that there could be a negative impact of fluoride above a certain level, especially on the developing brains. So, pregnant women ingesting high levels of fluoride, it could be detrimental to the brains of their infants.

That harm is seen at above 1.5 milligrams per liter in drinking water, which is well over the CDC's recommended limit of 0.7. The problem though is that the Environmental Protection Agency, their limit for what they consider to be harmful is currently set at four, which is three times higher than what we know from research to potentially cause harm.

And so, I think reexamining the EPA's upper limit for harm would be very reasonable. And also. there are about 3 million Americans who are living in areas now where the -- because fluoride is found in naturally and drinking water in some communities, they're living in areas where the level of fluoride is over 1.5 milligrams per liter. And those Americans don't know that's the case.

And so, informing them and also especially offering the opportunity for pregnant women to use filters if they want to reduce the level of fluoride, I think would be a reasonable compromise.

BROWN: Yes, and just to follow up with you on that because you know, you said above 1.5 milligrams per liter, these studies were based on that and most communities, you know, they have the 0.7 as a limit. But as you pointed out, fluoride has been added elsewhere, like in toothpaste, for example, and other sources that weren't available when this first went into effect decades ago. I mean, so even in the -- though the tap water might just have up to 0.7, could you still be going over that limit, the 1.5, because of all the other sources of fluoride? Does that make sense?

WEN: Yes, I mean it's -- in theory it's possible. And actually, this is the reason why CDC recommends that especially young children do not swallow large amounts of toothpaste because there is fluoride in toothpaste and you don't want to be ingesting toothpaste. You should be brushing your teeth and then spitting it out.

In addition, there's also fluoride in other things, for example, in black tea, and I think it's reasonable to warn pregnant women about the danger of added fluoride, especially if they're living in communities where there is already high levels of naturally occurring fluoride in their drinking water.

That's just not something that we're hearing from public health experts. And look, I understand that public health experts, dental health experts are saying. We need to protect fluoride because it's important for dental health. But I think that there's a nuance here. And acknowledging that both sides are correct, that this doesn't have to be all or nothing, I think that's important for building trust because just saying, oh, fluoride, don't worry about it. That's not actually scientifically correct.

BROWN: And as you point out, there are so many people who just, you know, don't like some of the policies RFK Jr. has put out there and are quick to dismiss him. But that doesn't mean that everything he has put out doesn't have some merit or, you know, requires further discussion and nuance as you laid out in your op-ed.

I also want to talk about the measles outbreak. There are more than 650 cases across several states at this point. Federal funding cuts could threaten the response. Do you think Kennedy, a well-known vaccine skeptic, abandoned the long-established lessons to contain this?

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WEN: Well, I'm very concerned about what's happening with the measles outbreak right now. I think that Americans, in general, just do not remember how terrible measles can be. I think that people somehow are dismissive of measles and it -- while it is true that in most people the disease is mild and causes flu-like illness.

It has complications in many others, and there are complications including pneumonia, including seizures, including permanent disability, and of course death. And I'm very concerned that we're abandoning the well-worn playbook of how to contain measles, which is really through vaccination. This is an extremely contagious disease.

One of the other aspect of measles that we've discovered in recent years is that it causes something called immune amnesia. So, that somebody who has contracted measles, they also have decreased immunity to other diseases that they may have had or that they've had vaccines to.

And so, we really need to be focused on controlling this and reminding people of why childhood immunizations are so essential in preventing diseases that we as a society, have really forgotten about because of how successful vaccinations are.

BROWN: All right. Dr. Leana Wen, always great to see you. Thank you so much.

WEN: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: Coming up, white House versus the courts. The likely outcomes of President Trump's brewing conflict with federal judges who he says are overstepping their power.

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