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The Situation Room

Interview With Rep. Maxine Dexter (D-OR); Interview With Rep. Robert Garcia (D-CA); Interview With Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ); Interview With Rep. Maxwell Frost (D-FL); Banning Food Dyes?. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 22, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:01]

LAURENCE TRIBE, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Because only the twins of Justice Alito and Justice Thomas dissented.

It is 7-2 on the basic principle that you just cannot use a law designed to deal with foreign invasion, as the Alien Enemies Act was when it was passed in 1798, a law used only three times in American history, you can't use that as an excuse for not even finding out who it is that you're yanking off the streets.

As we know, the government admitted, although it's now trying to take back the admission, that, when Garcia was shipped off to a penal colony in El Salvador, that was done in a mistaken way. Oops, we got the wrong guy.

Well, that's what happens when you do shortcuts and don't accord people due process, the simple right to a hearing...

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Yes.

TRIBE: ... where the government has to show that you are who they say you are and that you are a danger.

BLITZER: Professor Laurence Tribe, as always, thank you so much for joining us.

TRIBE: Thank you, Wolf.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And just ahead: banning food dyes. They're found in everything, right, from cereal to vitamins. And now the Trump administration is working to remove some of them. Are they safe? What are the big concerns?

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:36:57]

BLITZER: Today, the Trump administration is set to announce a plan to remove artificial dyes from our food. Specifically, it wants to remove petroleum-based synthetic dyes.

Those chemicals are used in thousands of products, from cereal, to candy, beverages, and even vitamins.

BROWN: And, last hour, I spoke to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf, who told me this about the plan:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT CALIFF, FORMER COMMISSIONER, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: The evidence is really murky about whether these dyes cause cancer or whether they cause behavioral problems in particular children.

And so the decision about what to do with the dyes really depends on the degree to which you want to employ the precautionary principle. If there might be a problem, would you do something? These dyes have absolutely no nutritional value.

So, out of all the things I worry about with regard to FDA, whether I agree or disagree with a specific way this is done, it's not going to affect the nutritional status of Americans in a negative way at all. And so I don't think it's that big a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's go live now to CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who comes with props.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: All right, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BROWN: First off, what are petroleum-based dyes and what is the concern here?

GUPTA: Yes.

So, interesting, a lot of these dyes that Dr. Califf was talking about are petroleum-based in large part because petroleum is a really stable chemical. So, when you look at these chemicals, you want those colors, most of which are not found in nature. That's how -- that's how you can tell if they're petroleum-based.

You want those colors to stay stable over time. So, for example, take a look at these cherries. That is not a normal color, but that is Red Dye No. 3, or the strawberry frosting. I have had to memorize all these dye colors. Red Dye No. 40, that's what makes that color.

Or, for example, these lemon candies, this is Yellow Dye No. 5. So there's all sorts of different dyes that are out there that are being used. They have been used for a long time. Red Dye No. 3, incidentally, was banned in January in a previous administration.

But the concerns, again, as Dr. Califf was talking about, they're not direct cause-and-effect concerns. If you go back and you look, for example, some 30 years ago, there was some concerns about it being linked with cancer or tumors in animals specifically. Over time, they were found to have certain carcinogens maybe causing some of these neurobehavioral problems in children.

Again, it's correlation, not causation, but there was enough of a concern there. And this was no surprise, based on things that we were hearing from the Department of Health, that they are going to recommend banning these dyes.

BLITZER: Sanjay, what may explain the link between these dyes and various negative health outcomes?

GUPTA: Well, it's one of those things where these types of studies are really hard to do, meaning that, when you have something that's so ubiquitous, these dyes in so many of our different foods, you -- it's hard to say, look, what else is causing this besides the foods? What else are people doing who eat these types of foods that might be causing these sorts of problems?

[11:40:10]

Don't know for sure, but this idea of the precautionary principle, again, something Dr. Califf mentioned, but is something that's out there quite a bit, is, we're not sure that there's a cause and effect, but there's enough of a concern, let's just be cautious.

By the way, Wolf, if you look at Fruit Loops, for example, Fruit Loops here in the United States are made with these petroleum dyes, but in many countries around the world, they are not. So, instead of using petroleum-based dyes, they will use natural food colorings. They will use carrot juice, they will use blueberry juice, watermelon juice to try and accomplish the same thing.

That already happens in many countries around the world, including Canada and many countries in Europe.

BROWN: Yes. And that's why there's been this big movement in the U.S. as part of the MAHA movement to use fruit juices, like they do in other countries, in Fruit Loops in particular.

GUPTA: Yes.

BROWN: But, of course, as you know, Sanjay, it's not going to -- it's not going to be as bright and as appealing to young kids. And that's been a big sticking point. But that -- other countries do that.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So, what advice do you have for folks right now in dealing with this issue, Sanjay?

GUPTA: Wolf, I think the advice is probably don't eat so many of these kinds of foods.

I know not the most popular answer, but if you're looking at these dyes, they are mostly in ultra-processed foods. I would tell you to read labels. You should. But that kind of gives you a binary answer. Does the dye exist or does it not exist? Most of the foods where you see these dyes are ultra-processed. Avoid those as much as possible. That'd be my best advice.

BLITZER: Good advice, as always, from Sanjay.

BROWN: All right, yes.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

And make sure to submit your questions by scanning the Q.R. code on your screen. Sanjay will be back tomorrow to answer your questions.

And we're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:46:31]

BLITZER: Happening now: Four House Democrats have just returned from El Salvador after seeking the release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

They were denied a meeting with the Maryland father who was deported to his home country in what the Trump administration has called -- and I'm quoting now -- "an administrative error."

Those lawmakers are joining us right now, Congresswoman Maxine Dexter of Oregon and Congresswoman Yassamin Ansari and Congressman Robert Garcia of California and Congressman Maxwell Frost of Florida.

Congressman Frost, why did you feel it was important to travel to El Salvador now?

REP. MAXWELL FROST (D-FL): Well, the main thing is that, in this country, everybody is entitled to due process. And we see that in this case.

But in many cases, these folks were not afforded due process. And the problem is, the Supreme Court has handed down a decision to the Trump administration saying they must facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia, and that they have decided to completely defy that Supreme Court ruling.

And so we are in a constitutional crisis right now. And, as representatives, we all have constituents that have been reaching out to us by the hundreds saying, do something about this. Make sure people don't forget about this. Not only does he need to come home, but we need to put -- we need to ensure that we draw the line here, because we don't want it to escalate any further.

This is the same president that in the Oval Office recently said the next people he wants to send to El Salvador are -- quote, unquote -- "homegrowns," talking about U.S. citizens. And so we have to do everything we can right now. We went over there to try our best to see him, to make sure he's OK.

But, again, it's not just about him. It's about the broader issue as well.

BLITZER: Congressman Garcia, what have you been able to learn about Abrego Garcia as far as his whereabouts and his well-being, for that matter?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Right.

Well, first, we obviously went there to ensure that he continues to be safe, that he continues to get access to counsel. We know that now that, through the courts, at least the El Salvadorian government says that he is alive still. We hadn't heard that since Senator Van Hollen's visit.

But this continues to be a very, very serious issue for him, his family, and the country. This case represents Trump defying a 9-0 decision of the Supreme Court. We also advocated directly to the U.S. ambassador there on the ground. It's clear from our meetings with him and others that the U.S. Embassy has received no direction to begin any sort of facilitation as directed by the Supreme Court, which is incredibly concerning.

And at the same time, we, of course, met with Abrego Garcia's family and, most importantly, human rights activists and advocates that are on the ground advocating in El Salvador, not just for Kilmar Garcia's release, but also to ensure that due process is in place for other folks that are down there.

And we advocated, for example, for Andry Romero, who's a young Venezuelan asylum seeker that had been granted asylum process, a young gay man who is now imprisoned with no access. And we have no idea his condition.

And so the visit was incredibly important, eye-opening. And we will continue to push and keep the pressure on.

BROWN: I want to bring you into this, Congresswoman Ansari.

What else did you learn while you were there? And did the Salvadoran government tell you why it would not allow your visit with Abrego Garcia?

REP. YASSAMIN ANSARI (D-AZ): No.

So, we made the request directly through the U.S. Embassy and the U.S. ambassador in El Salvador, and were unfortunately rejected. That's why we escalated the request directly to Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The four of us wrote a letter yesterday that was sent to the secretary of state with very clear demands that include the regular proof of life for Mr. Abrego Garcia, that includes access to counsel, which he has not been able to get thus far, and, of course, facilitating his return.

[11:50:23] So we are escalating this, because, as Congressman Garcia said, it is

clear that this administration has not followed the Supreme Court and has not even begun the process to ask for the release of Mr. Abrego Garcia to the United States, which is very concerning.

Through our conversations with human rights groups as well, we learned very clearly that Donald Trump is following the same authoritarian playbook as others around the world, including President Bukele, by trying to consolidate power by defying the Supreme Court and by just not following the law.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Dexter, a question for you.

As Representative Garcia mentioned, you have all met with the U.S. ambassador to El Salvador and to call on him to advocate for Abrego Garcia's release. Are you confident he will be released?

REP. MAXINE DEXTER (D-OR): That is absolutely in the hands of the Trump administration.

There is no reason to believe, if they advocate and request the return of Abrego Garcia to the United States, that it will happen. The El Salvadoran government is under contractual obligation with them. They are paying for his retention. All they have to do is request him to be coming home.

And, as Congressman Garcia said, there is no reason to believe, after our briefing with the ambassador at the U.S. Embassy in El Salvador, that the U.S. government has taken any action to facilitate his return home, as per the Supreme Court request.

BROWN: I want to bring you back, Congressman Garcia, because California Governor Gavin Newsom warns that his fellow Democrats are risking bad optics and costly distractions that benefit Republicans.

And he's essentially talking about the four of you going to El Salvador trying to get this meeting with the Abrego Garcia. Let's listen to what he said, and then I want to get your reaction the other end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): This is the distraction of the day, the art of distraction. It's a tough case, because people, really, are they defending MS-13? Are they defending someone who's out of sight, out of mind in El Salvador?

It's exactly the debate they want, because they don't want this debate on the tariffs. They don't want to be accountable to the markets today. They want to have this conversation. Don't get distracted by distractions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: They he's talking about the White House, which has framed this as Democrats are for illegal immigrants who are gang members, in their words, not American citizens.

Congressman Garcia, what do you say to what we just heard from Governor Newsom?

GARCIA: Look, I think the governor has actually clarified his remarks.

And he's, in fact, said he absolutely believes and understands that this is an important case. He's been clear. He's been a leader on immigration issues here in California. And I have spoken with him and his team. And so I'm very confident that he understands that -- the importance of this case.

And, look, I think what's really, really, really clear to us is that this is more than just about immigration or deportations. This is about a red line in the sand that Donald Trump is now stepping over.

The fact that he's unwilling, unwilling to listen to the Supreme Court, of which he appointed conservative judges, justices to is a fire alarm moment in this country. He's been ordered to bring Abrego Garcia back to the United States and refuses to do so.

This is a -- should be a bipartisan issue. All Americans should be putting pressure on Donald Trump to do the right thing, not just because it's the right thing to do for human rights or for him and his family. He has to do it for due process and law in this country.

So that's why we're advocating this is bigger than just Kilmar Garcia. This is about due process in the United States.

BROWN: Right. And certainly many Democrats have argued that -- about the defying the Supreme Court. The White House has claimed that it isn't. And this looks to be headed right back to the Supreme Court.

I'm just wondering, Congressman Frost, is the message about due process and Abrego Garcia, for his part, not getting it and so forth, is that really resonating with your constituents right now?

FROST: It is.

And the reason I went on the trip is because I have received hundreds of phone calls, messages, mail correspondence from my constituents who live here in Florida's 10th asking me to do something. I represent a very, very diverse community full of immigrants, full of people from across the entire globe that are proud to call themselves Americans now.

And I have spoken with many of them, and many of them have reached out to me since I -- we went on this -- went on this trip to El Salvador, saying, I see myself represented in Abrego Garcia. What happened to him could happen to me. I'm scared it'll happen to me.

This is why we went. I went on behalf of my constituents, because, if we wait until it's too late, then we can't say we did everything we could to stop it from happening. That's why we went.

[11:55:07]

And here's the good thing. It's not about the four of us. This is about our country, retaining what makes this country exceptional, and we weren't the first people to go there, obviously. Senator Van Hollen was the first to go there, and we're not going to be the last.

So, there's going to be more members going there to stand up for the Constitution, to stand up for due process in this country.

BROWN: Let me jump in quickly, because we're running out of time, and I want to get Congress -- Congresswoman Ansari -- Congresswoman Ansari here to respond to what the administration is also saying.

They're blaming the Biden administration, even though Abrego Garcia came in before that, saying, look, there are millions who tried to cross the border illegally under Biden, and the system is overwhelmed. And as Trump said in his post: "We would need hundreds of thousands of trials for the hundreds of thousands of illegals we are sending out of the country. Such a thing is not possible to do."

What do you say to that, Congresswoman?

We can't hear you. Very -- OK, we can't hear you.

Very quickly, Congresswoman Dexter, we're running out of time. I'm sorry.

DEXTER: Yes, due process is not an optional. That is a must right in the United States of America.

If we are sending people out of this country without due process, that's on us. We need to make sure that we have the defenders and the court system sufficient to take care of the rights that we all should be expecting as United States citizens, as well as those who are in our country with undetermined status.

BROWN: OK.

DEXTER: This is a blanket right to all within the United States, and we cannot accept that there's just not enough capacity.

BROWN: OK.

DEXTER: This is something we have actually been dealing with in multiple states across the nation, and it cannot be the last word.

BROWN: All right, thank you all so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

BLITZER: And we want to thank our viewers for joining us this morning as well.

You can keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN. We will see you back here tomorrow and every weekday morning for our expanded two-hour SITUATION ROOM 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is next after a short break.