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The Situation Room

Deporting Legal U.S. Residents Without Criminal Charges; Trump Admin. Stonewalling in Abrego Garcia Case; Paying Final Respects to Pope Francis; Sentencing of Highland Park Shooter; Rubio Unveils First State of State Dept. Overhaul. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 23, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ), FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE: -- over there. So -- and literally, every part of this government seems to every day wake up and be focused on how can we destabilize the country instead of providing some certainty to the country and stability of this country and focus on growing and helping people pay -- like get their costs down. All they seem to do is focus on doing things that are actually going to raise prices for families and actually hurt retirement savings. And that's what I don't understand any of this.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I quickly want to turn, Congressman, while I have you, to the growing controversy swirling around the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth. Sources telling CNN that President Trump has been seeking feedback about Hegseth's performance.

You called on Hegseth to resign after that first Signal chat scandal. If he's able to ride out this latest scandal without any accountability, what message does that send? And I ask this of you as a key member of the House Intelligence Committee.

GOTTHEIMER: I don't know how he survives this, to be honest with you. And the reason there's chatter in the White House now about Hegseth is because there should be. I mean, he took information, my understanding is from CENTCOM, right, from a classified communications chat, took it and basically pasted it on a Signal chat that went to his wife, his brother, and his personal lawyer, about an attack from our country -- you know, of an attack on one of our key enemies, the Houthis, and did this at a time where our service men and women were in harm's way, on -- in F-18s. You know, literally going toward their mission.

So, I don't understand how, given what he did and what continues to come out and about the chaos that's -- at this, the Defense Department, how you could keep him in this position and have any confidence in the secretary of defense.

BLITZER: Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey, as always, thanks so much for joining us.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Pamela. PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Up next held without being charged. We're taking a closer look at how the Trump administration can detain and possibly deport legal U.S. residents without criminal charges.

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[10:35:00]

BROWN: Happening now, a Palestinian student at Columbia University is making his first court appearance since ICE officials detained him. Mohsen Mahdawi was led away in handcuffs last week from an immigration office in Vermont, you see right here, just as he was taking the final steps to becoming a U.S. citizen.

Joining us now is CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig. All right. So, Elie, this student is a legal permanent resident. He was even taken into custody during his final citizenship interview. What legal rights does the Trump administration have to detain and possibly deport him?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Well, Pam, so first of all, we don't know the exact legal basis that the Trump administration is relying on here, because unlike in a criminal case where you would have an indictment laying out the specific charges, this of course is an immigration matter.

Now, if this case is like the other ones involving non-citizen students who've been detained, it appears the Trump administration is relying on this 1952 law that gives the U.S. secretary of state broad authority to determine that somebody is a potentially serious national security threat to the United States. If that person's not a citizen, they can then be deported.

But the big question is that a determination that the secretary of state gets to make all by himself, or can it be challenged in a court? There's a court proceeding happening right now in federal court in Vermont, and we'll get some more clarity on that soon.

BROWN: So, does that also apply to lawful permanent U.S. residents, Elie?

HONIG: Yes. It would apply to anybody who's not a citizen. So, that could be a person who's here on a visa status, a lawful permanent resident, also known as a green card holder, or of course, somebody who's not here at legally at all. It would not apply to a full U.S. citizen.

BROWN: I want to ask you about another case, this Russian national who's been working at this -- as a Harvard researcher. She had her visa -- her visitor visa revoked. She's still in a detention facility because the Justice Department claims she failed to declare non- hazardous frog embryos she was carrying on her return trip from France. What do you think about this and the punishment? Is it proportionate to the situation here? What's going on? HONIG: Well, it's a bizarre scenario and I think there's a fair argument that it certainly sounds disproportionate on the face of it, but important to remember, this is immigration court. The federal government, the executive branch, has very broad discretion about which non-citizens to deport and why.

But one really important thing that's emerged from this series of cases over the last several weeks is the federal courts have been insistent and I think doing a very strong job of insisting on due process rights. People do get their day in court. They can't just be shuffled off in the middle of the night before they go in court. And we've seen that theme stressed by the U.S. Supreme Court on down to the district court.

So, all of these people are going -- or should get their day in court, and the courts are really trying to protect that right.

BROWN: And that brings me to the next case, the Kilmar Abrego case where the federal judge there is lashing out at the Trump administration for continued stonewalling. Tell us more about that. What is she trying to figure out? What steps can she actually take if the White House keeps holding up this case as it has been?

HONIG: You can sense this judge's mounting frustration. This is a federal district court judge, Judge Paula Xinis. What she has been trying to do is get answers from the Justice Department, from the administration to a couple of key questions. First of all, how did the error in sending Abrego Garcia to El Salvador, the one country he was not allowed to be deported to, how did that happen? And second of all, what efforts is the federal government making to, quote, "facilitate" his return? That's the language used by the U.S. Supreme Court.

[10:40:00]

Both the Court of Appeals and the U.S. Supreme Court have made clear that by facilitate, they mean make some real good faith effort to return him. Now, the Trump administration has taken a much narrower reading of what that term means, and the district judge is really trying to push them to at least take some sort of affirmative step to reverse the error that the administration itself made and to bring it back here. So, again, he can have his due process in court.

BROWN: Do you expect the Supreme Court to eventually clarify what it meant by facilitate his release?

HONIG: Yes, it's a great question. So, the Supreme Court was very careful when they got this case two plus weeks ago. They said, we order you to facilitate, meaning you have to make an effort, but not necessarily effectuate, which means get it done. And the reason for that is the U.S. Supreme Court said, we don't believe it's our power as the courts to order the executive branch, the president, what to do when it comes to foreign relations and foreign policy.

But if this continues in a sort of stalemate, where DOJ and the government say, well, we're going to do the bare minimum, it could be that the U.S. Supreme Court sort of gets more specific or more pointed in its guidance. The Fourth Circuit, a very conservative judge last week, Judge Wilkinson, issued a ruling saying essentially, you need to stop messing around here. You know that we mean you have to take some affirmative act to get him back. So, if the Supreme Court gets frustrated with the way things are going, they could well take another shot at this.

BROWN: Yes. He had very, very strong words. Elie Honig, thank you so much. Wolf.

HONIG: Thanks, Pam.

BLITZER: We got more news coming up right now. Thousands of people are filling St. Peter's Basilica to pay their respects to the late Pope Francis. We're live in Rome. That's next

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[10:45:00]

BLITZER: Happening now, thousands of mourners are pouring into St. Peter's Basilica to pay their respects to Pope Francis. This is part of the three-day period where his body will lie in state just ahead of Saturday's funeral. Let's go live right now to CNN's Senior Correspondent Ben Wedeman who's in Rome for us.

Ben, the Vatican is considering, I take it, extending the hours for visitation due to the huge crowds that are showing up. What are you seeing there on the ground?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's correct, Wolf. The Vatican Press Office has put out a statement saying that basically they opened up at 11:00 a.m. this morning, local time they were going to close the St. Peter's Basilica at midnight. Now, they're saying they'll probably extend those hours for people to pass through there to see the coffin of Pope Francis beyond midnight.

So, what we're seeing, Wolf, is tens of thousands of people queuing up to go inside the Basilica. And I can tell you, you know, I've approached from several directions and the streets are simply crammed with people. We spoke to some of the first people who were able to get inside the church after waiting very long from early in the morning to go inside.

We spoke to somebody from a group of pilgrims from the U.S. Virgin Islands, they told me that they were going to leave on Monday, but when they heard, of course, that Pope Francis had passed away, they decided to stay. To stay for the funeral as well. And I think that's the case with many of the people here that we've spoken to, at least who had come for Easter, were thrilled to see Pope Francis still alive, going around St. Peter's Square with -- in the Pope Mobile. But now, of course, they were also here for the -- his death and they want to stay as long as possible, certainly for the funeral.

We know that Italy has declared a five-day period of national mourning. The entire country will go silent for one minute at the beginning of the funeral at 10:00 a.m. local time on Saturday. And of course, the preparations are underway for that funeral, which is expected to be absolutely massive and also attended by many world leaders, including President Donald Trump. Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Ben, we have been in room for us. Thanks very, very much. And we'll be right back.

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[10:50:00]

BROWN: Happening now, the man who pleaded guilty to shooting and killing seven people and wounding dozens more to July 4th Parade right outside Chicago is in court for sentencing. This morning, survivors of the 2022 mass shooting were expected to address the gunman before he learns his fate.

CNN Law Enforcement Correspondent Whitney Wild is in Chicago. What can you tell us, Whitney?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, Pamela, in a surprise moment this morning, he's actually not there, which is really striking because I know you've covered a lot of cases, so have I. Part of the closure process here for victims is the chance to tell the defendant to their face how much they -- that defendant took from the victims impacted here.

We still expect that there are going to be victim impact statements at this very moment, Pamela. One of the members of the Highland Park Police Department is speaking and he is walking through the moments that led up to this shooting and what he heard as gunfire rang out that day, July 4, 2022.

It is very likely that Robert Crimo III is going to spend his life in prison. He's facing 21 counts of first-degree murder. He's pleaded guilty to those. In addition, he pleaded guilty to 48 counts of attempted first-degree murder. Each one of those first-degree murder counts carries a maximum sentence of life behind bars. So, again, Pamela, the expectation here, certainly that he's going to spend the rest of his life in prison.

Again, even though he's not there, certainly the hope is that this day offers some amount of closure to the many victims who are impacted. Pamela.

BROWN: Yes. Certainly, that is the hope. Whitney Wild, thank you. Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, new CNN reporting, the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, unveils the first cuts to his department, including hundreds of jobs focused on war crimes and global conflict. We'll ask the State Department spokesperson about the new plans. That's coming up in our next hour.

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[10:55:00] BROWN: Happening now, the treasury secretary speaks Wall Street source.

BLITZER: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown. And you're in the Situation Room.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BLITZER: And we begin this hour with breaking news. A new jolt of optimism is running through U.S. financial markets this morning. The Dow has surged deep into positive territory after the president and his treasury secretary have suggested that the trade war with China may soon, soon ratchet down.

BROWN: CNN Business and Politics correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich is a New York. Vanessa, Treasury Chief Scott Bessent spoke just moments ago. What was his overriding message?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, the treasury secretary --

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