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The Situation Room

Banning Food Dyes?; Trump Administration Targets Anti-Christian Activity; Senator Dick Durbin Announces Retirement; Interview With State Department Spokesperson Tammy Bruce. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 23, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:02]

TAMMY BRUCE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: It's actually getting it back to the point where we can make a difference, where the money that is spent actually goes to the issues that matter to the American people, that matter to the nations that we are assisting.

And, at this point, even Power was extremely frustrated. She got it, by the way, from 7 percent to 10 percent. That was her big accomplishment. So this is a matter of, when we say, what matters to America, what about funding, is that it, in fact, will enhance our ability to make a difference on those issues that matter to Americans and to our partners around the world.

It will accomplish certainly our ability to have it reflect America's values and the agenda of the Trump administration, which is about keeping people free and making sure this world becomes a better place.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: OK. And you're talking about keeping people free, which brings me to my next question.

BRUCE: Yes. Sure.

BROWN: I want your thoughts on the case of Kseniia Petrova.

She's a Harvard cancer researcher jailed right now by immigration authorities. Petrova fled to the U.S. from Russia after protesting Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Now she faces deportation back to Russia because she didn't declare some frog embryos that were part of her research on a customs check.

Does the administration intend to send her back to Russia? Are you looking into this case, despite the obvious danger she would face there?

BRUCE: Well, I'm not in a position to speak of anything. That certainly is in the legal process now or something to which you should speak to DHS or to the DOJ.

BROWN: Just to follow up on that, though, over 340 students, faculties and researchers have had their visas revoked this year.

Of course, the State Department under the law has wide latitude to make moves on that point, but are you concerned that that could have a chilling effect and dissuade the best and the brightest talent overseas from coming to the U.S.?

BRUCE: You know, I think what dissuades people who have talent from coming to the U.S. is conditions of crime in our cities.

It was an open border. It's the nature of things being unsure or safe in your own neighborhoods or even on your own campus. Now, while I will not talk about visas, visa information, of course, it's also confidential. We're not -- we don't talk about the numbers of those or confirm or any of the numbers that you had stated.

But I think that what Americans are seeing and what Americans support is the nature of the safety returning to the streets of this country, the fact that our visas have very specific dynamics, as the secretary has said. If you're going to be saying things that are certainly impacting our foreign policy, if you're going to commit crimes, if you're going to be doing things that disturb a campus, or if you're a gang member, whatever those dynamics are, they're -- it's not just leeway.

There are laws. And it's about not -- it's about applying for a visa, being honest when you apply for that visa. And if you're not honest and if you break the rules of that visa or do other dynamics that certainly DHS and DOJ, who are in charge of that framework, deemed to be a problem, that visa is going to be revoked.

BROWN: OK. All right.

BRUCE: And then you will have to go back home.

So -- but on the issue of specifics, certainly, that's not appropriate to discuss. But the American people want there to be some kind of order. And we are applying an order that has always existed about the nature of what you say to get into this country, and that it is not a birthright, and that we will take seriously if you do things that require your removal from this country.

BROWN: All right.

BRUCE: Thank you. Thank you.

BROWN: And just to note, some of them have not been charged. Of course, as I pointed out, the State Department -- not all of them -- not all of them have been charged.

BRUCE: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you very much, Tammy Bruce. I really appreciate you coming on.

BRUCE: I'm not going to speak about the legal dynamics. But thank you. Sure.

BROWN: That's OK. But thank you, Tammy.

BRUCE: Thank you.

BROWN: I do appreciate your time coming on the show talking about these important issues.

BRUCE: Sure.

BROWN: I hope you will come back. Thank you.

BRUCE: Sure. Sure.

BROWN: And more when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:38:07]

BLITZER: We're following more breaking news right now.

Only a few moments ago, Senator Dick Durbin announced he will retire after more than 40 years in Congress. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): ... whether to run for reelection has not been easy. I truly love the job of being a United States senator.

But in my heart, I know it's time to pass the torch. So I'm announcing today that I will not be seeking reelection at the end of my term. The people of Illinois have honored me with this responsibility longer than anyone elected to the Senate in our state's history. I'm truly grateful.

Right now, the challenges facing our country are historic and unprecedented. The threats to our democracy and way of life are very real. And I can assure you, I will do everything in my power to fight for Illinois and the future of our country every day of my remaining time in the Senate.

I have given over half of my life to House and Senate congressional service. I have always tried to stand up to power on behalf of the people of Illinois and our country. But none of it would have been possible without my wife, Loretta, our kids, Christine, Paul and Jennifer, and my energetic and amazing grandchildren, as well as my extended family.

They stood with me and accepted the demands of my public career. I have been blessed to have them, as well as the best Senate staff anyone could ask for. My Senate colleague Tammy Duckworth is a trusted friend and an effective leader. She will be a real asset to Illinois and the nation as our state's senior senator.

We're also fortunate to have a strong Democratic bench ready to serve. We need them now more than ever. To the Illinoisans who gave this kid from East St. Louis a chance to serve, thank you for supporting me through the words and actions over the years. Now that I have this announcement behind me, I need to get back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And joining us now, CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox.

Lauren, this certainly sets up a succession scrambled for his leadership spot in the Senate and a likely crowded primary for a Senate seat from Illinois.

[11:40:08]

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this is a really significant retirement. It's the fifth Democratic Senate retirement that we have seen since the beginning of the year, but perhaps the most significant because of what you are talking about, Wolf, the reality that this is going to set up a showdown, not just to replace him in the Senate, but also replace him as the Democratic whip.

He is the number two Democrat in the Senate behind Chuck Schumer. He is someone who is the chief vote counter. And there's a huge question mark right now, as the Democratic Party is facing a future where they are trying to figure out how to lead, how to win elections. There's a huge question mark of who will be that next generation of leadership in the United States Senate.

So, first to that question of who would replace him in the United States Senate with this seat, there's a lot of question marks about whether a couple of House members right now, Lauren Underwood, as well as Raja Krishnamoorthi, might get into this race. There's also a huge question mark on whether the lieutenant governor, Juliana Stratton, might get into this race.

And then all eyes are on a number of Democrats who are already in the Senate, already in leadership as to whether or not they ascend to this number two spot, including Brian Schatz, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, as well as Patty Murray.

So this opens up a huge leadership vacuum right now left by Dick Durbin when he retires at the end of his term.

BLITZER: And we wish him only the best in his retirement.

All right, Lauren Fox, thank you very, very much.

We will be right back with more news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:55]

BROWN: Happening now, the Trump administration is taking on what it calls anti-Christian policies, practices or conduct across the government.

Yesterday, Attorney General Pam Bondi launched the Anti-Christian Bias Task Force and urged federal employees to report incidents that may violate their First Amendment rights.

We're joined now by CNN's Brian Todd. So, Brian, what more are you learning about this new task force?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, we have new reporting on this from our colleagues Gabe Cohen, Casey Gannon, and myself.

Now, in launching this task force, Pam Bondi yesterday accused the Biden administration of a -- quote -- this is her words -- "egregious pattern of targeting peaceful Christians while ignoring violent anti- Christian offenses."

Here is more of what the attorney general had to say on this task force yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Department of Justice will protect religious liberty for Christians and for all Americans. We will work closely with everyone around this table and take a whole-of- government approach to solving this problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Now, shortly after that meeting at the Justice Department started, some government agencies started receiving internal e-mails about this task force and about what it was looking to do.

CNN obtained a letter sent -- at the Department of Veterans Affairs sent from VA Secretary Doug Collins to employees. The letter includes 11 examples of things they ask employees to report, and one of them is -- quote -- "any retaliatory actions taken or threatened in response to abstaining from certain procedures or treatments, for example, abortions or hormone therapy."

Another one of those is -- quote -- "any informal policies, procedures or unofficial understandings hostile to Christian views."

Doug Collins was on FOX Business today saying that they just want to make sure that everyone in the government has the right to exercise their faith as they see fit.

This has drawn some criticism, this task force, drawn some criticism from Democrats on Capitol Hill. Here is a statement from Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut. He is the ranking member on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee -- quote -- "While religious discrimination must be forbidden and fought, this internal VA memo lacks any factual basis or rationale. It raises the specter of dividing the veteran community and favoring some religions over others."

Another fairly controversial policy you can kind of envision coming forward from the Trump administration here.

BROWN: Certainly, we will be tracking it all.

Brian Todd, thank you so much.

And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:52:50]

BROWN: Happening now: The Trump administration announced that it will begin phasing out some artificial dyes. Now, these are dyes that are found in all sorts of foods, Cheetos, Skittles, Fruit Loops, even some vitamins.

BLITZER: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. calls removing these dyes -- and I'm quoting him now -- "a no- brainer."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We're going to get rid of the dyes. And one by one, we're going to get rid of every ingredient and additive in school -- in food that we can legally address.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: For more, let's bring in CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, yesterday, we solicited questions from viewers about these dyes.

Matilda from Lafayette, Colorado, wants to know: "What's the difference between Red Dye 3 and Red Dye 40, and why is only one outlawed?"

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a common question.

So, first of all, these are both petroleum-based dyes. That's the chemical that is used to make these dyes. Red Dye 3, which over here you can see that's sort of the color of these cherries, anything that's an unusual color, a color not found in nature, probably one of these dyes.

The Red Dye 3, we have had some information about this for a long time. Thirty years ago, there was a concern that a dye like this might be linked to cancer in animals. So there's always been suspicion around this particular dye, and there was a law that basically said the FDA could not approve anything that was correlated with cancer in humans or in the animals.

But, despite that, Red Dye 3 has been around for a long time. It was now banned under the previous administration. Red Dye 40 over here, this is strawberry frosting, a little bit different color, not as much data around this in terms of associations with cancer, some concerns about neurobehavioral issues with children. This is now on the list as well to be removed within the next few years as well.

BLITZER: I want to contrast this, Sanjay, some of the differing approaches between the U.S. and Europe on this issue.

Lulu from Winter Haven, Florida, asked this question: "Why does the U.S. continue to use dyes and additives that Europe has banned?"

[11:55:02]

GUPTA: Yes, this is an important question.

I think there's two primary reasons. First of all, I think, when you look philosophically at the FDA, they have really relied on this idea that you need to establish cause and effect. If red dyes are a cause, can you reliably sort of correlate that to an effect, here's what the red dye actually causes?

It's hard to do when you have something that's so ubiquitous like these dyes. You see neurobehavioral changes. Could it also be related to smartphones? Could it be related to social media? Could it be related to other environmental issues? How much of this is actually the dyes? That's the FDA's sort of stance.

In other countries, they really oftentimes rely on something known as the precautionary principle. We have not been able to establish cause and effect, but we're worried enough that we think we should go ahead and remove these dyes, which is what happened in many countries around the world.

BROWN: And Chris (ph) asks, on that note, what will replace these dyes, quickly?

GUPTA: Yes, so there's natural food colorings.

I mean, you look at this cereal, for example, all these colors, those are all petroleum-based dyes. You can replace that with natural food coloring, such as watermelon juice, blueberry juice, carrot juice, which is what we're likely to see.

BROWN: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you.

BLITZER: Always useful information.

And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning. You can always keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN.

We will see you back here tomorrow, every weekday morning for our expanded two-hour SITUATION ROOM. That starts at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is next after a short break.

[12:00:00]