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The Situation Room

What Are Americans Saying About State of the Country?; New Measles Study; Luigi Mangione to Enter Plea. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 25, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:02]

JULIE GRANT, FORMER ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Wolf and Pamela, perhaps.

I have to tell you, I think what wasn't a surprise for Mangione and his legal team was what was filed last night, and that is the intent of notice to seek the death penalty. So, today, his arraignment on that federal indictment was scheduled.

And it can be kind of confusing because we know initially he was charged with a federal complaint, right? Initially, we had that. We had the complaint in New York state court and the complaint in Pennsylvania state court.

But then there was a grand jury presentment done, and the grand jury came back issuing this indictment. The most serious charge on it is murder with the use of a firearm. And that offense carries the possibility of capital punishment.

So, with this new indictment, today is going to be the day, as you noted, he's going to be arraigned, so he will have to enter a plea. We expect it to be a plea of not guilty, and then we expect the big fight to begin in the courtroom, as his attorneys are pushing back already, even before getting this notice to seek the death penalty with the comments from the Attorney General Pam Bondi with that intent.

And I dug through the notice before coming on with you both this morning. And, Wolf and Pamela, I hope you don't mind if I point out a couple of things. Two things that I found really interesting that the federal government is saying that serve as what we call aggravating factors, the reasons why someone should be put to death for their crimes.

They cite the selection of the site, the crime site, and the victim for an act of violence. They cite the fact that this was done in Midtown Manhattan, as you both know, as Brian Thompson, the UnitedHealthcare CEO, was on his way to that investor conference.

And they say this was done to amplify an ideological message and to try to gain as much visibility as possible by picking that very open place. And then the other thing they cite with him is, they allege future dangerousness.

They say that what he was trying to do was really attack the industry and incite more of a movement to come from other people who are disgruntled as he is with the health care industry at large. So these are just two of the aggravators that prosecutors are going to be presenting, the defense, we know, going to push back really hard on the death penalty.

They have already spoken out saying it's barbaric and that the A.G. is just making a political statement.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: So much going on, on the legal front.

Julie Grant, thank you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Excellent analysis. Appreciate it.

Just ahead: A new study is sounding the alarm about rising measles cases and declining vaccination rates. What the data says this could mean in the years ahead.

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[11:37:04]

BLITZER: And now to a SITUATION ROOM health alert.

A new study warns declining childhood vaccination rates could lead to millions more measles cases in the United States in the coming decades.

BROWN: Yes, it's pretty alarming, this report finding up to 51 million new infections are possible over the next 25 years, representing a major setback for public health.

Joining us now is emergency physician and contributing columnist with "The Washington Post" Dr. Leana Wen.

So, Dr. Wen, do you worry measles, which was declared eliminated, we should remind everyone, in the U.S. in the year 2000, could actually make such a stunning comeback?

DR. LEANA WEN, CONTRIBUTING COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes.

We have seen this happen in other countries. We're also seeing this modeling study that, if we have a 10 percent drop in MMR vaccination rates, in the measles, mumps and rubella vaccination rates, we could get as many as 11 million cases of measles and measles could make a comeback.

We're actually seeing this now in the U.S. as well, that there are areas of the country, including in Texas, with low vaccination rates and measles is spreading. Measles is one of the most contagious diseases in the world. It's airborne.

And somebody who is in a room, is infected, even if they leave for two hours, the virus could still be infecting others. And studies have shown also that nine out of 10 unvaccinated people, if they're exposed to somebody with measles, they will contract it. And this is why it takes herd immunity. It takes up to 95 percent of

people in a particular region having immunity to measles in order to prevent it from spreading. We have been able to achieve that before. And I think it's just really tragic that we could be in this situation again.

BLITZER: What needs to change, Dr. Wen, to prevent this from happening? What strategies should the federal government be implementing right now?

WEN: Well, we have a very effective vaccine. We have had the MMR vaccine that's two shots of it, 97 percent effective at preventing infection.

One shot is 93 percent effective at preventing infection. And we have known that what happens in the past, and we know this from other countries as well, that the single most effective strategy, really the only effective strategy, is vaccination.

And I think we need to say too that, yes, hesitancy and misinformation has something to do with it, but a lot of people may not be getting vaccinated not because of hesitancy, but because of access.

And that's something that federal government, state and local officials can also assist with, making sure that people have access to vaccinations, and of course, coming out with the strong and unequivocal statement that childhood vaccines are safe, effective and lifesaving.

BROWN: I want to ask you this before we let you go, Dr. Wen.

There's this leaked Trump administration budget proposal where the White House is reportedly considering eliminating 988 suicide prevention services for LGBTQ+ youth. What concerns does that raise for you, especially given the high suicide rates among young LGBTQ+ people?

[11:40:07]

WEN: Well, that's exactly it.

We know that this is a population that has high rates of depression, anxiety, mood disorders, suicidality, as you mentioned, and we should be providing more resources to vulnerable populations, not less.

I think that 988 is a fantastic, policy proposal, bipartisan, that then resulted in this hot line that I have used as a clinician to help to refer patients. It connects people to services. It assists them in different languages in the way that they need, including via text messaging.

I think this is terrific. And it really should be a bipartisan, nonpartisan initiative to get services to as many people as need them, including LGBTQ individuals.

BROWN: Right. BLITZER: Dr. Leana Wen, as usual, thank you very, very much.

WEN: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM, a pair of podcast hosts will join us for our weekly series "Your Voice." They will give us the inside track on what their listeners are saying about everything in D.C. and beyond right now.

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[11:45:44]

BROWN: And now to our weekly series "Your Voice."

Every Friday, we check in with talk and podcast hosts across the country to hear what their listeners are thinking and saying about what's going on here in Washington.

Today, we have got the co-host of "For You Pod," Cameron Kasky in New York. He is also the co-founder of March For Our Lives. Also joining us from Kansas City, the host of the "Majority 54" podcast and former Missouri Secretary of State Jason Kander.

Cameron, I'm going to kick it off with you here. I'm going to start with you and Trump's trade war. Last time we spoke, a couple of weeks ago, you said a lot of your Gen Z listeners really didn't understand what a tariff was. They weren't, like, super jazzed up about the whole thing. Has that changed at all?

CAMERON KASKY, CO-HOST, "FYPOD": Absolutely not. We still don't know what tariffs are.

I have figured out quite a bit more of them because I have done a little bit of reading. But Gen Z's attention span has been groomed by social media to be about five seconds. And, unfortunately, with tariffs, it takes a little bit more than five seconds to learn about it.

So, for example, the fact that we haven't even seen the real economic consequences of what's happened, the tariffs actually kicking in and raising prices has not dawned on us yet, so I can't say Gen Z is any more educated or aware than we were two weeks ago, but, maybe two weeks from now.

BROWN: Right.

And so, basically, what you're saying is because they haven't really felt it, they don't really care that much.

KASKY: We're going to feel it in our pockets very soon, once the shipping containers that have left China post-trade war reach America.

But, right now, Gen Z is like, OK, there was a little bit of a hiccup. Trump must have some bigger plan here, so things will be fine. But that is, unfortunately, not the case. BROWN: Five second-attention span, that's -- I'm not going to lie.

That's a little -- that's a little terrifying. But we do live in the age of social media.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Jason, to you on this, Trump just told "TIME" magazine in this interview that his overhaul of the federal government and his international policies are exactly what he campaigned on.

Do your listeners feel like Trump has delivered on his economic promises, which were a top priority for voters?

JASON KANDER (D), FORMER MISSOURI SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that there's a lot of concern about the volatility, right?

I mean, the whole -- depending on which side of the bed he wakes up on, who he's going to target for tariffs that day, it seems to be the case that the only way to get carved out of a threatened tariff is to call and kiss his behind.

And I think anybody in business or anybody who wants to plan anything, buying a house, buying a car, they're pretty concerned about how it's going -- I mean, I'm hearing -- like, here in Kansas City. I'm hearing no shortage of radio ads as I drive around during the day that are all about tariffs.

And they're like, because of the coming tariffs, you got to buy this right now, whatever they're selling, right? You got to buy this widget right now.

And so I do think it is affecting and at least delaying people's interest in investing in or purchasing anything.

BROWN: All right, I want to go to another big topic, the controversy over Trump's immigration policies.

Cameron, you have Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who the Justice Department says was mistakenly deported, to university students being detained, even though they have legal status to be studying in the United States and some of them haven't been charged.

How big of a concern is this to your audience, your younger audience in particular?

KASKY: I think people in this country are very apathetic towards immigrants and we believe that constitutional rights that are guaranteed to everybody do not apply to them.

But when people like Mahmoud Khalil are getting disappeared for using their First Amendment rights, people my age don't want to go out and protest. They don't want to go out and use their voice. You know, if they write an op-ed in their college paper, they could get disappeared by a bunch of ICE agents.

So it's getting in the way of a lot of protest that should be encouraged in this country, because young people are scared. It seems as though the government does not respect the law and the government is kind of proudly boasting that.

BROWN: So it sounds like the students -- what's happening with the students being detained is resonating more than an Abrego Garcia situation, who was here illegally, but was mistakenly deported El Salvador, despite this withholding order.

[11:50:05]

KASKY: Well, one of the things worth noting is that Trump has effectively gaslit people into thinking that this guy was an MS-13 gang member, right? There was the photo that he shared from some official White House Twitter page that had some tattoos on his hand that a lot of Internet sleuths are saying were not real, right?

BROWN: No, they weren't, yes.

KASKY: So, we don't really know what's going on.

BROWN: They -- yes.

KASKY: What we know is that the White House is not a reliable source of information.

BROWN: Which brings me to my next question, Jason, that the White House is really trying to reframe the controversial deportations by playing up alleged gang associations, without putting out real, concrete proof.

But I'm wondering. Clearly, they believe that that will resonate more with the American public, that that will create more of an emotional response. Is that resonating with your listeners?

KANDER: It resonates to a degree, but it's not resonating like it did in the campaign. It's not resonating like it has in the past.

I mean, there's a reason that they keep saying that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was here illegally, when actually there was a court order saying you couldn't deport him, that he was a gang member, when he wasn't, because you have even got people who have been, I would not describe as conservatives, I would not describe as Republicans, but who have been in their camp and have been helpful to them, people like Joe Rogan, who are starting to sound the alarm and saying, like, what is this? I don't think people should be deported without due process.

It's starting to alarm people. And I think it's alarming people for one of two reasons. And it depends on the person that you're talking to. On one side, you have people who are genuinely -- and I agree with Cameron. It would be nice if this was the majority, but it's not -- but people who are genuinely empathetic to the idea that somebody has been sent away to a prison in a country that they're not from, when they legally should be here and have done nothing wrong.

There are people who are bothered by that, even people who voted for Trump. But I think what is a much greater problem for Trump and the Republicans politically is that, when you send people to a prison in another country when they did nothing wrong and they legally should be here, you look like you don't know what you're doing.

And incompetence is a bipartisan political liability. Ask George W. Bush after Katrina. Ask, unfortunately, because it could have been handled much better, Joe Biden after Afghanistan.

If you look at the way those things cut politically, ask any mayor who did a bad job in a snowstorm, right, or a governor who did a bad job during civil unrest, regardless of political party, people will punish you at the ballot box for that. And that's what's coming for them in the midterms if they don't stand up and say, this is a problem and you have to stop it.

BROWN: Just to follow up with you, Jason, because Democrats have really been focusing on the fact that Abrego Garcia didn't have due process.

And we just heard from Cameron that a lot of the Gen Z listeners don't think that those who are here illegally in our country should get the same constitutional rights as U.S. citizens when it comes to due process, even though that is the rule of law in this country.

And I'm wondering if that constitutional argument is resonating with your listeners at all.

KANDER: I will be honest. I don't think a constitutional argument resonates with any voter on almost anything ever, to be honest.

I mean, constitutional arguments are great in court. They don't work that well at the ballot box. However, when you are so overstepping the promises that you made and going so far as to, according to a "New York Times" breaking news headline I saw about five minutes before he came on air, doing things like arresting a state trial level judge in Wisconsin.

The FBI just arrested a Wisconsin judge...

BROWN: That's true.

KANDER: ... accusing her of shielding an immigrant from federal officials.

When you're doing stuff like that, it makes people say -- not enough people, mind you, but more people all the time say, that's not what I had in mind when Trump was talking about immigration. And these, by the way, are the same people who, when they talk about tariffs, are saying, I voted for Trump because he said he was going to lower prices. Why is he taking steps that's going to increase prices?

BROWN: Cameron, your podcast, as we have said, focuses on what drove so many Gen Z'ers to vote for Trump in 2024.

And I'm wondering, now that we're approaching 100 days in office for Trump, where do you think they are now? Do you think that they are shifting away or even kind of digging in even more in Trump's camp? KASKY: I speak to a lot of young people who, if they didn't vote for

Trump, they are certainly a bit more sympathetic to Trump than one might be.

And a lot of people are definitely confused, because they were voting on feelings and culture war. Things felt wrong. And Trump was willing to say, hey, the system doesn't work, so I'm going to go in and shake it up, whereas I think the Democratic Party was saying, we need to make sure we uphold these systems.

But Gen Z doesn't really know what America looks like when it's working. In 2008, our parents lost their houses and jobs. We have been watching schools get shot up. A lot of us were graduating high school from behind a computer screen.

[11:55:08]

So there's a lot of distrust in institutions. And if Trump comes in and says, I'm going to flip the institutions on their head, that's really going to resonate with young people who feel like things aren't working.

But now, with the tariff wars, with immigration being so much more aggressive -- a lot of people thought they were voting on the border. They didn't realize that they were voting for ICE agents to be doing these raids.

So people are confused and they're scared. But, again, I think the Trump camp has had this very effective message of, trust the plan. There's something going on here that you don't understand. You don't know the economy. We're going -- we're playing 3-D chess here.

BROWN: OK.

KASKY: And what we have to say to young people is, Trump very often is just going on a whim. There isn't always a plan.

BROWN: Yes, they are, you're right, putting out the message, Trump is right, just trust us.

Will that trust stick? We will see.

Cameron, Jason, thank you so much.

BLITZER: All right, Pamela, good discussion.

And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning. You can always keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN.

We will see you back here Monday and every weekday morning for our expanded two-hour SITUATION ROOM 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is next.