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Trump Dismisses Biden Appointee from Holocaust Memorial Council; Upholding the Constitution; Student Loan Borrowers in Default. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired May 05, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: SCIUTTO: - by President Biden to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Council. What's your reaction to that?

JON FINER, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF AND DIRECTOR OF POLICY PLANNING, STATE DEPARTMENT: Yes, look, on some level it's hard for me to complain too much about this. I have friends and colleagues from across the U.S. government who have lost their day jobs, lost their entire careers during the course of the first few months of this administration. I think the focus really should be on the situation that they're in.

I will say this was an issue I cared about. I think the others who were appointed by President Biden cared deeply about. I believe it should be beyond politics. But the administration chose to do what it did. And --

BLITZER: But there was no criticism of anything you or the others appointed by Biden were doing as far as the Holocaust Remembrance is concerned.

FINER: I believe we were actually only formally part of the council for about 10 days.

BLITZER: That's it. Only because if Biden appointed you, you're now removed.

FINER: Yes.

BLITZER: All right. Jon Finer, thanks very much for joining us. Appreciate it very much. Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you. All right. Up next, upholding the Constitution. It's in the presidential oath, but does President Trump legally have to? We're going to ask one of our legal experts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

BROWN: Returning now to President Trump's controversial and at times shocking remarks on NBC's "Meet the Press" over the weekend. And in that wide ranging interview, he said this, when asked about upholding the constitution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC "MEET THE PRESS" ANCHOR: Your secretary of state says everyone who's here, citizens and noncitizens, deserve due process. Do you agree, Mr. President?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know.

WELKER: Don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president?

TRUMP: I don't know. I have to respond by saying, again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me, and they are going to obviously follow what the Supreme Court said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN Legal Analyst and Georgetown Law Center Professor Steve Vladeck joins us now. Obviously, a president swears an oath to uphold the Constitution. How do you view his remarks there?

PROF. STEVE VLADECK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND GEORGE TOWN UNIVERSITY LAW CENTER: Pretty stunning, Pamela. I mean, I think it's really remarkable. Here's a president who has taken this oath twice and it's not a long oath. It's 35 words and all it says is I, you know, will preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. This seems to be a president who is increasingly disinterested in what that means and what that requires of him as we're seeing in all of these immigration cases.

BROWN: And he repeatedly says, look, ask my lawyers. I listen to them. I have very brilliant lawyers. He also said he didn't know if the Fifth Amendment grants both citizens and noncitizens the same right to due process, claiming he was elected on this promise of -- are preventing him from doing that. Is the Fifth Amendment up for interpretation?

VLADECK: To a degree, but not like this. I mean, the text of the Fifth Amendment literally says, no person, not no citizen. That's a conscious distinction. The Supreme Court, for generations, has said that the Fifth Amendment protects noncitizens, including undocumented immigrants.

Just last month, the Supreme Court unanimously held, in the context of the Alien Enemy Act, that even undocumented immigrants subject to the Alien Enemies Act have a right to at least some process before they're removed. So, you know, there's debate about how much process is due. There's just no debate that some processes due, because otherwise we won't be able to tell the difference between folks who the government claims are gang members and folks who are not.

BROWN: Right. And I always want to follow up on that because there are Americans, and we've talked to people on this show, who say, well, why do they get due process rights if they come here the same rights as U.S. citizens? Again, just tell us why the Supreme Court, over the years. has upheld that right for noncitizens?

VLADECK: So, it's not the same rights. I mean, the due process does vary under the circumstances. An undocumented immigrant does not have the same rights that a, you know, natural born citizen does. But at the end of the day, if we weren't going to have any due process, what is to stop the government from pointing at any of us, you or me, or anyone else on the street and saying, oh, well they're an undocumented immigrant and I can remove them summarily.

The whole point of the due process clause is to make sure that before the government's allowed to take these very severe actions we are confident that the people against whom these actions are being directed are who the government says they are. We've already seen with this administration how serious the risk of error is and why it's so important to have that check.

BROWN: Right. Because as last check, two judges, including Trump appointed judges, have ordered the administration to send back two people at deported to El Salvador. President Trump said his lawyers will obviously follow the Supreme Court on his deportation policies. Is that happening right now?

VLADECK: To a degree. I mean, I think we're in this weird state right now where the administration is not openly defying these lower court rulings, but it's not trying that hard to comply with them. You know, we're seeing a bit of a shell game, for example, in the case of Abrego Garcia, one of the two who was wrongfully removed to El Salvador where the administration is saying one thing publicly and something else in court.

So, I think what we're seeing is kind of like in "Jurassic Park," the velociraptors testing on the fences. The administration is not overtly defying these rulings, but it's trying to see, Pamela, just how much it can get away with before the courts really push back.

BROWN: I actually think that's a really important point because I think a lot of people early on were just seizing on it and saying, oh, they're openly defined the Supreme Court, but there's more nuance to it on that Supreme Court order. Trump says his lawyers have a different interpretation of facilitate and that he respects the Supreme Court. But it struck me during that interview with NBC's Kristen Welker that he said he had inquired about asking for clarification from the Supreme Court and that the administration might actually do that. Do you see that happening?

VLADECK: Maybe. I mean --

BROWN: Because that can clear up a lot of issues here with this.

VLADECK: I mean, it could. You know, the Supreme Court, I think, bears some responsibility for this. It was their order in the Abrego Garcia case that used these words, facilitate and effectuate, which are open to interpretation.

[10:40:00] I think part of the problem is that you have this district judge in Maryland who is trying very hard to get answers to what the administration has asked from President Bukele and the Salvadorian government where it has not asked, and the administration's playing a bit of a sort of fast and loose dance in that court.

Once we get those answers, Pamela, I think we'll be in a better position to figure out, has the administration actually done what it's supposed to do? Has it taken these steps? And what should it have to do going forward before we have more cases like this where folks are wrongfully removed to these foreign countries?

BROWN: Right. And just follow up on that. And by the way, I don't think we know the status of the second person that the Trump appointed judge said needed to be brought back. But I'm curious because the Supreme Court has not ruled on the merits of the Alien Enemies Act, right?

VLADECK: That's right.

BROWN: Even though it says, you know, that the administration could continue on with the deportations under it. So, I mean, what do you do if then the Supreme Court says, actually, no, you can't use this act, but they've already deported all these people in there?

VLADECK: So, I think there are two sets of questions here and it might be helpful to keep them separate. The first is, going forward what can the administration do with folks who are still in the U.S.? And that's where things have hit rather a pause button. There are now, I believe, six different orders covering six different federal district courts, because saying, no, you can't remove folks under the statute.

And, Pamela, two of those orders say that's categorical because the statute can't even be invoked against Tren de Aragua. Let's assume that that all works out, that the Supreme Court eventually agrees and says, no more removals under the statute. We still have 150, 175 men who were already removed under the Alien Enemy Act where the courts might end up saying, that was never lawful in the first place.

BROWN: Right. So --

VLADECK: And that's when the fight becomes, what can a federal court do to say, hey, Secretary Rubio, right, hey, Secretary Noem, you guys actually have to take affirmative steps. We're not talking about, you know, invading El Salvador, but you have to do whatever you can within the bounds of the law. Stop paying the Salvadorian government. Make requests for their release. That's going to be the real fight for the cases of folks who have already been removed.

BROWN: And if you look at the Abrego Garcia case, the administration right now is saying, well, there's really nothing we can do. And so, that would be very interesting if that happens.

VLADECK: And that hasn't been true historically. I mean, I think it's worth reminding folks that before this administration there had been a long history, not a perfect history, but a long history of administrations of both parties being ordered by courts to bring folks back and, you know, not always doing it quickly, not always doing it perfectly, but understanding that they had an obligation to do whatever was within their lawful power to do so. It's only now that we're seeing an executive branch dragging its feet, and the question is, what will the courts do if that impasse persists?

BROWN: Steve Vladeck, thank you for fulfilling my inner legal nerd. I could spend the entire show talking to you about all of these legal issues of the day. Appreciate it.

VLADECK: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: You actually studied law at Georgetown too.

VLADECK: Indeed.

BROWN: At George Washington University.

BLITZER: At George Washington.

BROWN: Yes.

BLITZER: I knew it was George.

BROWN: Yes.

VLADECK: We claim all the George Law schools.

BROWN: I definitely peeked you a couple of times, like, what does this mean? So --

VLADECK: It's all good.

BROWN: Great to have you on the show, Steve.

VLADECK: Great to be here.

BLITZER: Steve. Thank you very, very much. And coming up, restarting collections of student loans and default. The millions of Americans who will be impacted starting today. We have details, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

BROWN: Happening now, the Education Department is resuming collections on millions of student loans that are in default, and it brings an end to a pause in collections that began about five years ago during the pandemic.

BLITZER: I want to go right now to CNN Reporter Matt Egan who's joining us from New York. Matt, how many Americans are potentially facing consequences over delinquent loans?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Wolf and Pamela, this is a big problem. A new analysis from TransUnion finds that just over 20 percent of all federal student loan borrowers who owe money, they are 90 days or more past due. That is considered seriously delinquent. That translates to about 4 million people. And when you look at the trend, you can see that this is an all-time high, up from about 11 percent in February 2020, just before COVID-19, and taking out that previous high in 2012 of about 15 percent.

Now, this does suggest, of course, that some people are not able to pay this money back right now. Others may have decided not to pay it back and others may not realize that they owe money, once again. This is a particular problem for people with lower credit scores. TransUnion found that more than half of all subprime federal student loan borrowers are behind. They are seriously delinquent. That is just a staggering figure when you think about it.

And just to remind people how we got here. Back in 2020, of course, the federal government paused student debt, payments and interest and collections. Then in late 2023, it was resuming, but with a 12-month on ramp and starting today, the Education Department is resuming collections, which means that you could have a situation where millions of people who are considered in default could potentially have their wages or even their tax returns garnished. So, this is an ongoing problem and one we're going to have to keep monitoring. Back to you.

BLITZER: All right. Matt Egan reporting for us. And we'll be right back with more news.

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[10:50:00]

BLITZER: The second round of the NBA playoffs is now set. Steph Curry and the Golden State Warriors are moving on after taking down the Houston Rockets in game seven, and it's thanks to a big performance, Pamela, from an unlikely playoff hero.

BROWN: That's right. CNN's Coy Wire joins us now from war. Coy, catches up on last night's action.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Whoa, buddy. Buddy Hield and those battle tested Warriors sending the Rockets home on an early vacation. Game seven, win or go home between the Warriors and Rockets. And Golden State found themselves that unexpected hero off the bench, Buddy Hield out of his mind.

Look at this, 42-foot first quarter buzzer beater, 33 points. An incredible nine out of 11 three pointers. Steph Curry, he had just three points in the first half, but rises up in the fourth score and 14 of his 22. Golden State survives the pressure cooker. Hield's nine three pointers tying the NBA's all-time game seven high. Helping the Warriors heal the deal, 103 to 89,. They'll face the Minnesota Timberwolves next.

[10:55:00] Now, let's put this one on ice with one of the most bonkers games of the weekend. Game seven Blues up, 3-1 on Winnipeg with less than two minutes to go. But Vladislav Namestnikov sending Jets fans into a frenzy. Get ready for takeoff. It's 3-2- now. Five seconds left. Got a hurry. Cole Perfetti with a Perfetti redirection. Less than three seconds left. Perfetti meaning perfect in Italian. It's the latest game time goal in NHL game seven history. This game would go to double overtime. And that's where Captain Adam Lowry scores the game winner. Winnipeg survives, pulling off the miraculous comeback in double OT. A 4-3 win with the Stars up next in round two.

It's been more than 30 years since the Canadian team has hoisted that Stanley Cup, but those Jets are keeping Canadian hockey dreams alive. Actually, three of the eight teams remaining are from Canada.

BLITZER: What a great game. Amazing stuff. Coy Wire, thank you very, very much coming. Pamela.

BROWN: Thank you, Coy. Coming up right here in the Situation Room, a notorious prison could get new life if President Trump gets his way. His plans for Alcatraz, next.

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