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Trump Meets With Canadian Prime Minister; Interview With Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ); New Ground Delays at Newark Airport. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired May 06, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now: new ground delays at one of the nation's busiest airports, staffing chaos in Newark choking up travel for the ninth straight day, and now we're hearing what it was like when air traffic controllers lost contact with planes in the air.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

We begin this hour with another day of chaos at Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey. Widespread delays and cancellations have now plagued passengers there for nine straight days.

And, just this morning, the FAA imposed a new ground delay for flights headed to Newark.

BROWN: CNN has obtained audio that reveals that scary moments during a communication outage last month. Some controllers were so traumatized by it, understandably, that they had to take special leave from work, making a staffing shortage even worse.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: No, you do not have a bravo clearance. We lost our radar, and it's not working correctly. Radar service terminates. Squawk VFR. Change approved. If you want a bravo clearance, you can just call the tower when you get closer.

PILOT: OK, I will wait for that frequency from you, OK?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: OK, no. The squawk VFR, look up the tower frequencies. We don't have a radar, so I don't know where you are.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is here with us in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Pete, these major delays in Newark have been going on now for more than a week. How much longer do you think this could last?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: There is no end in sight right now, the FAA not coming up yet with a near-term solution, and they say, to replace these controllers who are now out on trauma leave, it can't drag and drop controllers from some other place.

It's a very specialized job. Let's just go through the numbers here. This is the latest analysis from Flightradar24. There have been 800 cancellations at Newark Liberty International Airport since that equipment outage that began all of these issues last Monday, April 28.

Just yesterday, according to FlightAware, there were 160 cancellations at Newark. That accounts for about a quarter of all cancellations nationwide. The FAA has imposed another ground delay program, meaning this is the ninth straight day of delays due to these staffing shortages at the Newark radar approach control facility, that facility actually in Philadelphia.

We know from a source familiar with this incident that happened last Monday that precipitated all of these delays that at least five controllers are now out on what's called trauma leave. That entitles them legally to 45 days off.

I want to read you the statement now from the Federal Aviation Administration, which essentially confirms our reporting from yesterday. And, in it, the FAA says: "Frequent equipment and telecommunications outages can be stressful for controllers. Some controllers at the Philadelphia TRACON" -- remember, this facility that controls Newark is actually in Philadelphia -- "who work Newark arrivals and departures have taken time off to recover from stress of multiple recent outages."

So, we know this was not the first time. "While," the FAA says, "we cannot quickly replace them due to the highly specialized nature of this profession, we continue to train controllers who will eventually be assigned to this busy airspace."

So the big deal here is no end in sight, now on the ninth day of these rolling cancellations and delays at Newark Liberty International Airport, a huge hub for United Airlines. It has preemptively canceled about 35 round-trip flights per day going in and out of Newark.

[11:05:04]

BLITZER: This is so, so scary.

The Transportation Department, as you know, Pete, says it's going to transform the air traffic control system amid all of this chaos. What else are you learning?

MUNTEAN: Well, we're learning now from Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy that there will be an announcement on Thursday, where the Trump administration will announce a wide-ranging revamp of the air traffic control system, because so many people agree here that the problem is the aging technology.

That is the central issue. We even heard from Senator Chuck Schumer yesterday, who said that this issue all goes back to a burned copper wire. No official comment on that from the FAA, but that really speaks to the aging equipment here that the FAA is using.

And I want you to listen now to what Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said on FOX News last night about what this air traffic control revamp will entail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, U.S. TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: We are going to radically transform the way air traffic control looks. We're going to build a brand-new air traffic control system, from new telecom to new radars to new infrastructure. We're bringing on new air traffic controllers. This has been a problem in the decades coming.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

DUFFY: And we're going to fix it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Remember, there is still a nationwide shortage of about 3,000 air traffic controllers.

Duffy there speaking to long-term plans here to fix the air traffic control system, but, in the microcosm, in the short term, still no real way out for the FAA here to get these controllers back into the Newark approach control center, where they're now facing a shortage.

BLITZER: And you speak with authority. You're not just a journalist. You're a pilot yourself.

MUNTEAN: That's right.

BLITZER: So you would be scared, you would be worried about flying around some of these areas?

MUNTEAN: Well, it can be done, but it could be potentially dangerous. And that's the big thing here. And controllers, they are essentially in this facility stuck in a dark room with a radar scope and the radio. That's the only way they have to see airplanes and communicate with them.

This is not like controllers in a tower, where they can look out a window and see what's going on. And so, when they don't have those resources available to them, they are pretty well hosed. It's pretty hard for them to do this job. And so they're essentially doing the job blind.

They need these resources, and this is something that the FAA really has to fix in the immediate. BLITZER: Pete Muntean, thank you very much.

And, Pamela, you and I fly a lot, and this is pretty scary stuff.

BROWN: It is, absolutely. And I will tell you this. I'm not going to be flying out of Newark any time soon.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Me neither.

BROWN: My goodness.

All right, and, Wolf, these nationwide shortages of air traffic controllers, it's something we have been talking about. It's been causing flight disruptions for years. And officials say that the U.S. needs about 3,000 more to have adequate staffing.

So, to learn a little bit more about this is a retired air traffic controller, Colin Scoggins.

Hey, Colin, great to have you on.

So what do you make of all this?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Why do you think the shortages have lasted so long?

COLIN SCOGGINS, FORMER MILITARY SPECIALIST, FAA: Shortages have been around since 1981, when they went on strike.

You have never had a full complement of controllers. And it's something that's just been ongoing. The assumption is, if you have so many in training, they count those as part of the full amount that you need. But you're down around 13,500 controllers that are certified. You actually need about 16,000 certified controllers.

BROWN: So, then what kind of an environment does that create in the control tower with those shortages?

SCOGGINS: The shortages, they're different at every facility.

So the ones we're talking about here at Philadelphia TRACON, they're in a radar room and there were controllers that were transferred from New York TRACON that have gone down there and switched positions. They moved that sector down to Philadelphia.

I'm not sure how long ago, but probably within the last year, within the last six months. And it's just trying to keep the amount of personnel up. When they had the incident the other day, and you have some controllers go out on the special leave, it's going to definitely leave you short.

BROWN: Yes, but what does that look like? I mean, when you're left short, how does that create a more stressful environment for an already stressful job?

Just bring us into a control tower when you're dealing with that situation.

SCOGGINS: It's -- the -- it's complicated, but you can tell when this stress is up, when you need more people. You don't have it. It's one thing normally to be able to call people back that might be on break. And if there's no one to call back, then it's really up to you.

These programs like ground stops are used for that purpose. They create a safety net to make sure you're not going to get overwhelmed with traffic. And Newark has a construction going on as well, which is also creating a problem.

BROWN: So, to follow up on that, we have learned that several people handling flights out of Newark took trauma leave because their radio communications and their radar systems went down. What do you think about that?

[11:10:02]

I mean, we know it's not the first time. How traumatizing is an event like that?

SCOGGINS: I have had situations where we lost communications and radar or just radar. You can actually function without the radar. You cannot function without communications.

If you cannot talk to a pilot, then you're really in trouble. So losing a combination of both of those, is my understanding, I would find it very traumatic. You're sitting there watching the situation unfold, kind of like on 9/11. You see situations unfold that you have no control over. And when you're a controller, you want to be in control.

When you take that away, it can be very traumatic.

BROWN: And the fear is that something could happen on your watch, right, something devastating.

SCOGGINS: Oh, it can happen. We have probably the safest -- one of the safest control -- safest air traffic control systems in the world.

But, at the same time, our equipment is getting old. It is getting archaic.

BROWN: Transportation Secretary Duffy says -- quote -- "Were planes going to crash in response to what happened in New York?" He says: "No. They have communication devices. They can see other traffic."

But he also said it's a sign we have a frail system that needs to be replaced. What do you think about that?

SCOGGINS: I agree totally. The problem is, it just can't be done quickly. Upgrading equipment will take years. Getting enough air traffic controller will -- takes -- will take about 2.5 years to get enough controllers to get the numbers up where they belong.

BROWN: So, to follow up on that point, the FAA said in a statement they cannot -- quote -- "quickly replace those controllers due to the highly specialized nature of the job."

What does that mean in a practical sense? Are the controllers still working being pushed even harder?

SCOGGINS: The controllers that are still working will be -- it will cut down how many positions they can have open if they have to combine positions. The controller can only work less. He can't work the same amount of traffic.

BROWN: So you just have to wonder at Newark how they're going to remedy it, then, with several of them on this trauma leave. How are they going to deal with that?

And add a layer to this when it comes to air traffic controllers is they're required to be under the age of 31 to get hired. They also have to retire at the age of 55, I believe. Should they extend the age limits, do you think, in order to hire more people?

SCOGGINS: That's something they're talking about. I think that's a good idea. However, when you're 55 years old, you work in shift work, and if they want you to work six days a week, that's going to be an awful impact.

They would maybe do better if they hired them back part-time, maybe three days a week for someone who's over age 55. It's just an impact on -- your body takes a lot of stress doing that, controlling for 30 years and doing the shift work that comes along with it.

BROWN: Colin Scoggins, thank you for coming on and sharing your experience and perspective on this.

SCOGGINS: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: All right, a very important interview, Pamela. Thank you.

Let's get some more on today's top stories.

Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey is joining us live from Capitol Hill right now.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Newark Airport is right outside your district in New Jersey, and I understand you fly there often. I fly there often too, by the way.

The former NTSB Managing Director Peter Goelz tells CNN he's not sure if he would personally fly out of Newark right now amid all of this chaos. What do you think? Is it safe for people to fly out of Newark right now? GOTTHEIMER: It's safe, but, as the United Airlines CEO said, which I

really think is alarming, is, he's encouraging people to pick other airports because they can't handle the capacity.

And, Wolf, as you pointed out, it's one of the busiest airports in the nation. You have got 20 percent of America's GDP running through the Northeast in that corridor. We need those airports to be running efficiently. And, clearly, now, when you have three- or four-hour delays regularly and canceled flights, that's unacceptable.

We have got to fix this problem, and this is not something we can punt on and hope gets better. We have got to do it now. And I'm calling on the administration and the FAA, the secretary of transportation to look at the national staffing levels. And, yes, there's -- we have got shortages in a lot of parts of the country, but we should look at the full map and see if we can temporarily move some air traffic controllers to that region, because they're 40 short right now.

We have had more, as you know, take time off after the crisis last week, that 90-second crisis of lost communication, but we have got to get more air traffic controllers in there as we're upgrading technology.

BLITZER: Back in February, I remember, Congressman, you actually blamed the Trump administration for the chaos over at the FAA after 400 employees were cut.

GOTTHEIMER: That's right.

BLITZER: But the transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, is pointing to outdated systems and outdated hardware.

[11:15:03]

How much of a concern are those old systems? And what would you like to see in the administration's upcoming plan to replace them?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, you need to do both.

The secretary called the system frail, which is unacceptable in the greatest country, that we have a frail system. But if you go to the towers, which I have, you know that they literally have copper wire. They hand pieces of paper to each other. They can't have Wi-Fi because they don't have the wiring technology to have that, which is -- makes no sense and is unacceptable, right?

So we have got to upgrade the towers. And that will take time, and we have got to immediately fast-track that investment. But, in the meantime, we have an air traffic control shortage of staffing, as we just heard your guest talk about, right?

I mean, we have a huge problem there where we're 40 staff members short in that region, which means we have got to figure out a way to bring more on board, get, of course, more people trained, pay them right and pay them well. They're overworked, right? They're working too many hours because they're short-staffed. We have got to make sure -- this is a critical job and an intense job.

So we need to get more people in the training system, but also we have got to rearrange the staffing around the country and bring more into Newark immediately, given how important this artery is to the country.

BLITZER: Yes, so important. People's lives are potentially at stake right now.

I want to turn to some other news, Congressman, while I have you.

GOTTHEIMER: Sure.

BLITZER: I want you to listen to something the former Vice President Mike Pence told CNN's Kaitlan Collins about Trump's trade war. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do think this version of tariff policy that's broad-based, indiscriminate, applies tariffs to friend and foe alike is not a win for the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your reaction, Congressman, to Pence rebuffing his former boss on one of his signature issues?

GOTTHEIMER: I couldn't agree more.

The chaos around the world right now -- and I talk to folks in diners nearly every day. And what they're saying to me is, they're noticing how prices are already up. And, by the way, that's just the beginning of the impact of these tariffs against, as the vice president said, friend and foe, right?

And you're talking about including Canada, Mexico, and all around the nation, our trading partners. So when you see the markets in turmoil, you see the whole system in turmoil because we can't get what we need, the goods we need, or their costs are so high, right -- you're talking about in cases 140 percent higher with these tariffs.

The impact is so great on hardworking folks who are just trying to make ends meet. Put aside their retirement savings that have been hit. I don't understand this insane, cost-raising, chaotic tariff policy, but I guess that kind of describes the Trump administration in a sound bite.

BLITZER: The president is about to meet with the visiting Canadian prime minister, Mark Carney, over at the White House, that meeting scheduled to begin within the next few minutes.

Do you have any hope that this face-to-face meeting will actually help cool the historic tensions between the U.S. and Canada?

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, I hope. We know, Wolf, how important this relationship is to our country as a trading partner, whether you're talking about fertilizer, lumber, auto, other metals, agriculture and goods, milk and cheese and everything else.

We have a very important, dependent relationship on -- with -- interdependent relationship with Canada. And I want to see that working. It's good for America. It's good for our economy. And let's -- the idea that we'd be in any kind of trade war with a key ally like that just makes no sense. It's one thing to go after our top adversary, the government of China.

It's another to go after our key ally Canada. And we just need to actually get these -- we have got to stop this insane tariff policy, get costs down for people and prices down for people, give them some relief. And, hopefully, that will also help their retirement savings and the markets will react accordingly in people's savings and pensions.

BLITZER: Important points, indeed.

Congressman Josh Gottheimer, thanks, as usual, for joining us.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks, Wolf.

BROWN: All right, and still ahead right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Wolf, any minute now, the new Canadian prime minister will arrive at the White House to meet with President Trump, as tensions grow over trade tariffs and taunts. Of course, we will bring that to you live.

And a major shakeup brewing at the Pentagon, the defense secretary announcing cuts across the military's senior ranks.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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[11:24:01]

BROWN: Any minute now, President Trump will meet with Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney at the White House. Ontario Premier Doug Ford told us last hour that he spoke to Carney ahead of today's meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG FORD, PREMIER OF ONTARIO, CANADA: He's going to go there. And he's a very personable person. He's going to go there and build the relationship. I don't think we're going to have any deals signed today, but I believe that they will build that relationship and just tell President Trump we're so much stronger together.

I always say united we stand, divided we fall. And when you look at what's going on around the world right now, we need to stand together. We need to take care of each other. And that's the message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's go to CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak.

And, Kevin, our reporting indicates that the White House is trying to portray this as a routine visit from a foreign leader, not really rolling out the red carpet for Prime Minister Carney.

[11:25:00]

What are you learning about today's meeting?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, there's no red carpet, although you see the honor guard behind me preparing for a Carney to arrive here in just about five minutes time.

It is a high-stakes meeting for Carney, and I don't think the balancing act for him could be any starker. He assumed this office riding this wave of anti-Trump sentiment, in part because of the trade and tariff war, in part because of Trump's rumblings about making Canada the 51st American state.

And so his supporters, I think, will want to see him confront the president on those issues inside the Oval Office. But on the other hand, as a lot of foreign leaders have figured out, there's really no upside to creating animosity with the president in his own office. There -- it really is kind of a recipe for disaster.

And so you do see him kind of walking a fine line here as he prepares for this very important meeting with the president. Of course, tariffs and trade will be at the top of the agenda. President Trump said yesterday that he thought Carney was coming here to try and make a deal.

Both sides, I think, will want to try and find a way to remove some of the tariffs that they have put on each other over the course of the last several months, Carney also looking to try and renegotiate the USMCA. That's the North American trade agreement that President Trump put in place during his first term in office, but which is now essentially in tatters., so a lot for them to talk about on that front.

Of course, chemistry, I think, is just going to be important here. This is always important with President Trump. In a lot of ways, these are two opposite types of people, although they both did come from the private sector. The president over the weekend called Carney a very nice man, which is mild praise, but it is a lot nicer than the words he had for Carney's predecessor, Justin Trudeau, who he repeatedly called governor, essentially trying to belittle him as an allusion to these aspirations to make Canada the 51st state.

Trump does not call Carney governor. And so I guess, if you're starting from that point, things could potentially be looking up, Pamela.

BROWN: Not yet, at least.

Kevin Liptak at the White House, thank you -- Wolf. BLITZER: And up next, there's breaking news, as Israel is striking

Yemen, including the capital city's main airport. We have more details just ahead.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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