Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Soon, Cardinals Begin Procession into the Sistine Chapel; Nuclear Powers India and Pakistan at Risk of Wider Conflict; Federal Reserve Meets on Interest Rates. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 07, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news. Soon, the Conclave begins. In moments, the cardinals will gather to take an oath of secrecy and begin voting for a new pope.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and indeed around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room, the Conclave begins.

We begin this morning with a pivotal day for Catholicism and its 1.4 billion followers. Just minutes from now, 133 cardinals from around the world will solemnly file into the Vatican's Sistine Chapel to begin the secret of Conclave.

BROWN: and they will not be seen again until they have elected the next pope, the spiritual leader who will succeed, Pope Francis. And this morning the cardinals gathered for a special mass at St. Peter's Basilica. Their first vote is expected to begin just a short time from now.

BLITZER: We'll be closely monitoring all of this.

CNN Anchor Erin Burnett is in Rome for us. She's over looking St. Peter's Square right now. Erin, what are you seeing so far today?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, you know, it is an incredible moment in history for all of us to just witness, and that's what we're seeing behind us in St. Peter's Basilica, the mass, the cardinals were there. They went back to Santa Marta. They had their lunch and they are now getting ready. Any moment, they're going to begin the final steps before the first vote. And that means they're going to be taking an oath, a collective oath, Wolf and Pam, and then an individual oath. Each of the 133 cardinals who will cast their vote, that means the cardinals 80 and under, they will take an individual oath one by one, and that includes about 18 of them that are perceived as possible frontrunners.

Although, as you know, so many of these cardinals, the majority of them, were appointed by Pope Francis, so in the past 13 years, many of them do not have relationships with each other or know each other in any meaningful way, so that could change this as well and also change who's a frontrunner. They're going to take those oaths and then they will be in the Sistine Chapel. And as Pamela just said, then they will be casting that first vote.

This first vote that we are going to see is so crucial. And just to give everyone a sense. Behind me, obviously, you see St. Peter's Basilica, and over my left shoulder behind that building is the Sistine Chapel itself. From St. Peter's Square, you can see that chimney on the top. That's where we'll see the first smoke tonight, and we expect that in the next couple of hours. It is unlikely. No one expects that there will be a Pope tonight. Of course, there could be. You just need a two thirds vote of those 133 Cardinals.

But, Wolf and Pamela, when they're in that room, which may be familiar to people from the Conclave movie, you know, in those seats lined up on the sides of the Sistine Chapel casting that first vote, we, of course, will not know, but they will know, and it will give them a sense of how many frontrunners there are. You know, we hear things in the range of, well, if you get 30 or more votes in this first round. That really positions you as a frontrunner. 10 to 20 votes, what does that mean?

But that is what they're going to then know tonight. And then from there, we'll have two votes in the morning, two votes in the evening every single day. And they will remain sequestered, Wolf and Pam. They already have had their phones taken away, their iPads taken away. All communication with the outside world has already been removed. So, they are sequestered, all bugs removed, listening devices, there were sweeps. We are literally living a tradition that goes back 800 years, and that in and of itself in this era is truly something to behold, Wolf and Pam.

BLITZER: It certainly is. Erin Burnett, we'll be in close contact with you throughout this important historic day. Erin Burnett, thank you very much.

BROWN: Yes, that's right. We're going to get back to our coverage of the Papal Conclave in just a few moments.

But, firstly, we want to go to some breaking news, the spiraling conflict between two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan. Overnight, Indian forces carried out attacks on alleged terrorist infrastructure inside Pakistan, which Pakistani authorities claim killed at least 26 civilians, including deaths of children, according to Pakistani officials.

So, let's go live now to CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson in the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. Nic, all of this comes about two weeks after that massacre in Kashmir, which India blames on Pakistan. Give us the latest on the escalation we're seeing right now.

[10:05:00]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. India had said that -- Pakistan had said that it was expecting India to retaliate for that attack. That happened in the early hours of last night, a lot of panic in some of the towns where those rockets and missiles came down. The Pakistani prime minister has said today that the army has a right to respond in a proportionate way indeed should avenge the loss of the women and children, but he was speaking a little bit later to parliament and he didn't speak about an act of retaliation then. He said that the country should be proud of the Air Force and the and the Army because they had shot down five of the Indian Air Force jets, including a Rafael fighter jet, which he said was hugely a big honor for Pakistan to take that down because it was such that aircraft was such a matter of pride to the Indian Air Force.

So, this is really at the moment a, a war of words between both sides. But it does feel as if there is, while an uptick in the shelling across the border that India says has now killed more than ten people along the conflict line between India and Pakistan and Kashmir, at the moment, while we're expecting Pakistan to have a retaliatory move, they're not using directly that kind of language.

So, it sort of feels that maybe, for now, for a few hours, 24 hours, maybe less, maybe more, a sort of pause. But the tension is absolutely there. Neither side is backing away from the rhetoric of war. The defense minister speaking to CNN in the past hour, Pakistan's defense minister said that there should -- that the country should be prepared for all-out war, all-out war. Those were his words.

BROWN: Nic Robertson, thank you. We'll be closely tracking this apparent escalation between these two nuclear powers. Wolf?

BLITZER: So worrisome indeed. This could be huge. Yes, let's hope it works out.

Meanwhile, here in the United States, it's decision day over the Federal Reserve. In just a few hours, the chairman Jerome Powell will announce whether the central bank will cut interest rates. It's expected the Fed will keep rates where they are despite a lot of public pressure out there from the White House. That decision could potentially set the stage for even more conflict between President Trump and the chairman, Jerome Powell.

CNN's Matt Egan is here with us in The Situation Room. He's monitoring all of this. So, what are the odds, Matt, that the Federal Reserve will actually cut rates today?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Wolf. Look, the Fed is in a very tough spot because of the trade war, right? Even if they wanted to cut rates, they feel like they can't because that could fuel inflation. Raising rates, that's not really an option either, because that could just fan these recession fears. They're sort of stuck in wait-and-see mode. Investors are pricing in just a 3 percent chance of an interest rate cut today, 97 percent chance that the Fed does nothing.

The real key is what does Fed Chair Jerome Powell say today about how tariffs are going to impact inflation and interest rates going forward. Does he leave the door open to a rate cut in June? This is disappointing news obviously for borrowers because even though rates have come down a bit, they're still really high. It's an expensive time to have credit card debt, to try to take out a mortgage, to try to get a car loan. And as you mentioned, there is this risk that if the Fed does not lower interest rates, it's just going to invite more attacks from President Trump who, just last month, attacked Jerome Powell as a major loser despite the fact that Trump himself actually nominated Powell in the first term.

Take a listen to this exchange on meet the press between President Trump and NBC's Kristen Welker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS HOST: Today's strong jobs report likely means, not clear, but likely means the Fed is less likely to lower interest rates.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, he should lower them. And at some point, he will. He'd rather not because he's not a fan of mine, not -- you know, he just doesn't like me because I think he's a total stiff. And, you know, it's just one of those things. He should lower them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Now, here's the ironic thing, Wolf. If not for tariffs, the Fed probably would be lowering interest rates because, yes, inflation has come down, but the Fed is just concerned that all of these tariffs are going to unwind the progress when it comes to inflation.

BLITZER: That's probably a good point. What time will we know the answer from Jerome Powell?

EGAN: 2:00 P.M. Eastern.

BLITZER: 2:00 P.M. Eastern. We'll be watching, right? Thanks very much, Matt Egan reporting.

BROWN: All right. And, Wolf, happening now, the FAA says it is increasing staffing and addressing technical issues as it tries to ease the chaos at New Jersey's Newark Airport. Flight disruptions at the busy hub of now stretched into a tenth day. More than a thousand flights have been canceled at Newark's Airport since April 28th. That's impacted a lot of people.

Meanwhile, an air traffic controller is speaking out about the day communications failed at Newark Airport.

[10:10:00]

He says the outage was, quote, the most dangerous situation you could have, and lasted between 60 and 90 seconds.

Let's go live now to Newark's Airport and CNN's Brynn Gingras. We're ten days of this mess. What are you seeing on the ground there?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pam, listen, it's actually a little quiet and I hate to say that out loud here in Newark Airport. So, fingers crossed, it remains a good day. It's actually nice outside. So, the cloud cover we've been seeing the last couple of days also hopefully not impacting flights as much.

And as you just mentioned, the FAA saying, it's made some improvements, immediate improvements to help relieve some of the pressure that particularly has been on Newark Airport, including upgrading that one wire that really was an issue during that incident back on April 28th, causing those five people in air traffic control to take a leave.

Now, I do want you to first quickly hear from Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, as he was talking to Jake Tapper last night about what the government is doing to quickly try to resolve the issues that we've been seeing for the last couple of days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Immediately, we're in the process of bringing together all the airlines that serve Newark and putting them in a room and having a conversation about how they reduce their capacity in Newark. So, if you book a flight, you know it's not going to be delayed or canceled, you're actually going to get on that flight and it's going to fly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: All right. Now, I want to quickly just show you the board behind me, guys. This is the best we've seen it, and I've been here for the last three days or so. Not many delays on this big board. We're actually seeing more cancelations, about more than 80 for today, which goes to show that basically what they're doing is canceling flights before people get here and they find out they're being canceled or delayed, so hopefully reducing the volume and, again, trying to make it a little bit easier flying experience for the people who are able to get out and come into Newark Airport. So, we'll stay a quick eye on this board and see if that changes throughout the day, guys.

BROWN: All right. Brynn Gingras, thank you so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: Thank you. And still ahead, we're going to get back to Rome and the Vatican, as our special live coverage of the start of the Conclave continues. And in just minutes, 133 cargoes from around the world will begin the very secretive and solemn process of choosing the next pope.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

BROWN: Welcome back to our special edition of The Situation Room, the Conclave begins. In moments, the cardinals will begin their procession into the Sistine Chapel where they will take the oath of secrecy.

BLITZER: Then the doors of the Sistine Chapel will shut, and the Conclave will officially begin. We expect the first votes to be cast today.

CNN Anchor Erin Burnett is in Rome for us watching all of this unfold. Erin, what are you seeing right now?

BURNETT: Well, Wolf, here in St. Peter Square at the Vatican. You're seeing people gather, tourists, Romans, people who are just lucky enough to be here as tourists, maybe to witness a moment in history, and people from Rome who are coming to watch this.

We've described as a bit of butterflies in your stomach moment for everyone just to witness a moment like this where no one's going to find out on social media, nothing's going to leak. This is the way it's been done for about 800 years with very little changes, and that's what we are about to witness here.

Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb is with me. And, Christopher, so this is the crucial process that starts the whole thing before the first vote. So, the Cardinals now are together. They're in the Pauline Chapel. They're going to process as a group to the Sistine Chapel. So, what happens here, and these next few minutes? And I want everyone to know we are going to be taking this live really in full so everyone can experience it.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Okay. So they're going to begin with some prayers in the Pauline Chapel. Then they will process to the Sistine Chapel. They will sing with the choir, the Litany of the Saints. So, they'll be praying for the intercession of the saints, over a hundred saints they'll be asking the prayers for. And then --

BURNETT: And they sing as they walk and from one to the other?

LAMB: Yes, that's right. They sing as they walk. They'll be saying, you know, prayers to all sorts of saints throughout the church's history, including past popes and others. And then there will be further prayers and then a hymn to the Holy Spirit called the Veni Creator Spiritus, an ancient hymn, over a thousand years old. And that is the appeal for the Holy Spirit to inspire the cardinals. That's really at the heart of the spiritual elements of this process.

BURNETT: And we should let everyone know when that, as that happens. I mean, all of this, of course, is so powerful and beautiful, but that particular hymn is a truly beautiful hymn and that you will hear. And if you're watching, you'll see of all of this progress on our screen, but for people to be able to hear that.

And then one thing I know you said, as we hear the prayers and they take the oaths, both collective and individual, there is meditation, which you have said is such an important moment.

LAMB: Yes. After the prayers and the oaths have been sworn, there will be a meditation from Cardinal Cantalamessa, who is the former preacher of the papal household. He'll give a meditation, which will help the cardinals kind of concentrate their minds on the task at hand.

BURNETT: So, we are looking right now at live pictures from the Pauline Chapel, and that is where the cardinals are gathered, right? It is from there that they will process and they will sing the Litany of the Saints as they move as a group, right?

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: So, 133 of them processing from the Pauline Chapel to the Sistine Chapel.

As we see them gather, 133, there is incredible order to this, right? There is a hierarchy and an order to where you sit and how you move and in what order you take the oath.

[10:20:02]

LAMB: That's right. The most senior cardinals will go first, cardinal bishops, cardinal priests, cardinal deacons. And, of course, it's down on seniority, how long you have been a cardinal for, and also your position within the rank of the cardinals.

BURNETT: And so Ben Wedeman is here with us. As we are looking out on St. Peter Square, Ben is behind us among people who have gathered.

And, Ben, you know, you covered previous Conclaves. You were here, of course, for the selection of Pope Francis. As you stand among people in St. Peter's Square today, how does this feel different?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think this feels different, Erin, in the sense that what we're seeing is that this is a more international Conclave. There are 70 countries represented in this Conclave compared to only 48 in 2013. And this is very much the result of the efforts by the late Pope Francis to expand the church, to universalize the church, to bring in parts of the world in terms of cardinals and others who were not part of the church before. And, of course, what we're seeing is lots of people gathering as the day progresses.

And we are joined now by Donald and Georgie Sandell and just flew in this morning from Chicago. They were just tourists, but of course here you are in right in front of the Vatican on a very historic day. What does this mean to you?

DONALD SANDELL, AMERICAN TOURIST: It means a lot, especially as a practicing Catholic hopefully in the next couple of days. We're going to find out who the leader of the Catholic Church is going to be. And that's going to affect us, not just historically, but hopefully spiritually as well.

WEDEMAN: And, Georgie, what are you looking for in the next pope? I mean, some people in the United States want somebody a little more conservative, who sticks to the older sort of doctrines of the church. Other people want to see sort of a Pope Francis 2.0.

GEORGIE SANDELL, AMERICAN TOURIST: Well, I'm happy to be here and I can't wait to welcome in the new pope and just go with the 2.0.

WEDEMAN: All right. Well, thank you very much and hope you have a good visit here to Rome. And I hope you're here for the white smoke,

D. SANDELL: I hope so too. Thank you.

G. SANDELL: Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good day.

WEDEMAN: Thank you. Okay, Erin, so there you have two people who have just by chance come here to be in Rome, outside the Vatican for this historic occasion. Erin?

BURNETT: I mean, it truly is, and obviously so that he said he was a practicing Catholic. Many, of course, aren't happen to be here, but it still is a profound moment for anyone of any faith.

All right, Ben is going to be with us throughout this coverage this afternoon as the cardinals are gathering and the cardinals are getting ready to go into the Sistine Chapel. Vatican T.V. will show us that, show us the oaths, and then it will go dark for all of us until the first smoke this afternoon.

Our special coverage of the start of the Conclave will continue throughout all of it as we await the cardinals to begin that procession.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

BURNETT: You are watching CNN's live coverage of the Papal Conclave here from the Vatican right now, as we speak, and you are watching 133 cardinals are about to process. They will make their way toward the Sistine Chapel as they prepare to choose a new leader for the world's 1.4 billion Catholics and a leader with impact for the rest of the world as well.

So, I'm here in Rome here at the Vatican with Christopher Lamb, along with Elise Allen both Vatican experts with so much experience covering this decade.

So, Christopher, in these moments, so they're in the Pauline Chapel, and then they will process as a group, as we have been explaining to the Sistine Chapel, that procession, is an important moment, right, during which they will be singing prayer.

LAMB: That's absolutely right. They will be praying for the inspiration of from God and the Holy Spirit to choose the right person to be the next pope. It is at the heart of this process, a spiritual experience. Of course, they are sealed off from the outside world. There are no distractions, no electronic devices, no iPhones, iPads. They are being tasked with focusing solely on discerning the will of God, the will of the Holy Spirit as they cast their ballots.

And you can see just from these images now, it's a solemn atmosphere. It's a prayer for one clearly. And this procession is all part of making this a spiritual and prayerful moment.

BURNETT: Elise, the Swiss Guard that we see here as we are watching will be there for the procession. They will be there, of course, as well for the entire Conclave guarding the doors, among the few who are not one of the cardinals, but who will be on the, quote/unquote, inside in some way, right, who are allowed to be there.

[10:30:04]

ELISE ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Exactly. The Swiss Guard, of course, you know, their job is to protect the pope, you know?