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The Situation Room

Trump Raises Idea of Hiking Taxes on Rich to Speaker Johnson; Pope Leo XIV Delivers First Homily; Retired Supreme Court Justice David Souter Dies at 85. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired May 09, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, new this morning, a source I spoke to confirmed that President Trump raised the idea of higher taxes for the wealthy during a phone call with House Speaker Mike Johnson earlier this week. In a new social media post this morning, the president suggested that he's open to the idea, but acknowledge the political risk that it would pose to Republican lawmakers. I'm told President Trump wants a top income bracket for people making more than 2.5 million per year for taxes, and that he also wants to tax income above that level at 39.6 percent.

So, let's discuss this now with Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez of Florida. Thanks for coming back on the show. Congressman, always nice to have you. So, bottom line is putting more taxes on a wealthy, something that you and other Republicans can get on board with?

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE AND ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I know it's been discussed and I've been in the room when it has been discussed, and then there's pros and cons with it. I'm not entirely on board yet, but it needs to be discussed. And then, we need to find out if, what are the positives of it? What are the -- look, we've got some other tax breaks for a heck of a lot of other people. Like, you know, we're discussing the President Trump's idea of not taxing tips, Social Security, overtime, et cetera. All that costs money.

And so, there are folks in my caucus that -- in my conference that -- so, OK, what's to pay for that? And what are the -- one of the ones that we've been discussing, one of the issues we are discussing is, OK, on those very, very rich, you know, can we increase and up the bracket on them. And so, it's up for discussion. And now, we hear that the president is open to it. So, I think it'll be on the table and then we'll discuss it.

BROWN: And so, you said right now as it stands, you're not entirely open to it. Why is that?

GIMENEZ: No, no. I didn't say I wasn't open to it.

BROWN: Oh, I'm sorry.

GIMENEZ: I said I was open to it. OK.

BROWN: You were? OK.

GIMENEZ: I'm not there yet.

BROWN: I misunderstood. I thought you said wasn't. OK.

GIMENEZ: No, no.

BROWN: I'm glad I asked that.

GIMENEZ: Well, just not there. I'm not there yet, but I'm open to the discussion. Yes. And let's see, what are the positives? What are the negatives and the offsets to it? And look, well, the one thing that we can't do is that we must pass the big beautiful bill, because if we don't, we're going to have the largest tax increase in American history. So, that's what we're focused on.

And now, there are other issues of what the president wants. And then, how do we get to that point where everybody can feel comfortable in voting for this reconciliation package. And so, that's where we're trying to get to right now. It's the edges that we're trying to resolve with some of the -- some of my colleagues that are on the blue states and then some of my colleagues that are in the House Freedom Caucus.

And so, we've got to find the middle ground there. This is an issue that may help us find that middle ground. I didn't say I was -- I said I wasn't there yet, but I said I'm open to discussion.

BROWN: Yes. So, what do you think -- what else do you need to know about it? What do you think could get you there? And just if you would, bring us into that room with other Republicans discussing this issue. I mean, is it your sense that that Republicans could end up doing this or did it seem like a contentious issue? Just bring us there.

GIMENEZ: Look we're talking about really rich people. OK? I mean, with a lot of money. OK? And so, how much does that -- how much -- if we increase that rate on them, how much would it really hurt? How much would it hurt investment? Would -- you know, how much would it hurt job creation? And those are the things that I'm trying to, you know, get my head around.

Because even though they do make a lot of money, they're also the ones that create a lot of jobs. And so, in the end, how does that help or hurt America? How much revenue does it actually bring in? So, all of those things. And so, those things have to be discussed.

[10:35:00]

And what do we discuss in the room? We discuss everything. And there's a whole bunch of ideas that are brought on the table. Gee, I'd like to do this. Gee, I'd like to do that. And we all come from different districts and we represent different folks and different -- you know, we do different districts with different ideas and different needs. And so, you know, getting this all together is a very interesting exercise. BROWN: I'm sure.

GIMENEZ: But at the end, we will get it done, because failure is not an option.

BROWN: So, just to follow up, I mean, what would you say to constituents who might be watching this debate play out and say, well, why not put taxes -- more taxes on the really rich, you know? Why are Republicans looking to squeeze Medicaid or looking to make changes there for lower income Americans as a means to extend the tax cut that research shows really benefit the wealthy? What do you say to constituents who might view this that way?

GIMENEZ: Well, I'll say to them that we're not going to be touching Medicaid benefits. What we're going to be doing is and what we have discussed is those recipients that are actually capable of work they need to go to work. Illegal immigrants that are on the system, they probably shouldn't be on the system.

And then finally, we also know that there are close to 2 million recipients right now that have registered in two states. They're double dipping. It's OK to keep one state, but you can't keep two. So, those are the kind of things that we're looking at. We're not really looking at reducing the benefits to those that are eligible and should be eligible to receive Medicaid.

And so, what do I say to my constituents right now? It's exactly what I'm saying right now. I'm not closing the door on it. We just have to see what are the pros and cons. And then at the end, you know, we'll line up. And so, it's interesting that the president said he's open to the idea also and he's discussed it apparently with the speaker. I'm not sure that that's completely accurate, but I'm going to take your word for it.

But then, he also put the caveat, you know, that --

BROWN: Why do you say you're not sure if it's accurate?

GIMENEZ: Well, I mean, the --

BROWN: I spoke to someone this morning who did confirm it and it had been previously reported in The New York Times, and the president himself did put out a Truth Social post saying, hey, I'm OK with it, but it might not be a politically good idea for Republicans.

GIMENEZ: I'm not saying that he didn't do that. I'm just saying that did he have that discussion with the speaker? I haven't heard of that myself. OK.

BROWN: OK.

GIMENEZ: And so, I've got to make sure that that's true. OK. And so, that's -- you know, we're open to it. I know we've discussed it in the room. There's been discussions in rooms I've been in and talked about the idea. And so, you know, again, we're going to have to look at it and see how it comes out at the end. But at the end, we will pass the bill and reconciliation will pass because failure is not an option.

BROWN: All right. I want to ask you about something else. Last time you were on, I believe we were talking about your Catholic faith. You've been really vocal about it. So, I want to ask you about the new spiritual leader of the church, Pope Leo XIV. He's the first American born pope. But his brother says the new pope views U.S. immigration policies as, quote, "a total injustice." How do you -- how -- what do you think about those comments and how do you view your new pontiff?

GIMENEZ: Oh, I'm glad he is an American. And he's from the Americas, but he is spent a lot of time in Peru. And so, he's fluent in Spanish also. And so, I thought it was, you know, for me, it was a good choice. I don't know his take right now. I don't know exactly where he is going. He is the pope and his opinion carries a lot of weight. But it doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with everything the pope will say because I didn't necessarily agree with everything the previous pope said. But he is my spiritual leader and I'm certainly glad that he's an American.

BROWN: All right. Congressman Carlos Gimenez, thank you for coming on this show, as always. We'll be right back.

GIMENEZ: All right. Thank you.

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[10:40:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the Vatican now as the first U.S. born pope, Leo XIV, delivered his first papal homily earlier this morning. The world's 1.4 billion Catholics are getting to know the new head of their church.

Joining us now is Bishop David O'Connell of the Trenton, New Jersey diocese. He's a former president of the Catholic University of America here in Washington. Bishop, thanks so much for joining us. What are your thoughts, first of all, about the election of Pope Leo and what does it tell you about the direction of the Catholic church?

BISHOP DAVID O'CONNELL, FORMER PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF AMERICA AND DIOCESE OF TRENTON, NEW JERSEY: Well, I'll tell you, I was quite surprised by the announcement yesterday. Among all of the American cardinals, he's the only one that I've never met. And so, I really don't know him personally. And I'm not that familiar with his background, but I certainly was delighted when he appeared on the balcony of St. Peter's.

So, emotional. So, filled with emotions. The sense of the moment. And wearing the traditional papal garments and greeting the people in such a beautiful way, wishing them peace. That was his message.

BLITZER: It was such a powerful moment indeed. The significance of the name Leo, Bishop, and what do you think that says about this new pope's priorities?

O'CONNELL: Well, the last Pope named Leo was Pope Leo XIII, and of course, he was the author of the "Encyclical Rerum Novarum," which was an encyclical meant to address social conditions in the world, the state of workers, the state of employment, and things of that nature.

[10:45:00]

And so, I think in choosing that name, he's indicating to us that he's very serious and very interested in issues of social justice.

BLITZER: Pope Leo XIV is widely seen as a centrist, a unifier, but there are concerns about the political landmines he will face down the road. Here's what his two older brothers said yesterday. Listen to this, Bishop. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN PREVOST, BROTHER OF POPE LEO XIV: I think he sees the United States is headed in the wrong direction in terms of immigration. That this a total injustice. These are people. It doesn't matter where they're born, they are people first. And so, they need to be treated as people first.

LOUIS PREVOST, BROTHER OF POPE LEO XIV: I just hope others, you know, here and overseas that it doesn't turn political because, you know, oh, he is an American, he's going to screw the church up. Hopefully, that doesn't happen and it just keep the nationalities, nationalism out of it and let's just be the Catholic church.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you share those concerns, Bishop? And how would you like to see Pope Leo handle these rather thorny political issues?

O'CONNELL: Well, of course, I don't necessarily share their concerns. The pope has to speak for himself and he has to share his own point of view and perspective, and he will do that. I have no doubt that he will do that, but I don't necessarily share those points of view.

You know, it was interesting because prior to the conclave, people were saying that an American would never be elected because we would never put a superpower in yet another position where they would have even more power to exert in the world. So, it was very interesting to me that the cardinals did choose an American, but he spent most of his priestly life in Peru working in the missions for the Augustinian Order.

BLITZER: And on that point, Bishop, as you point out Pope Leo, yes, he's the first pope from the United States, born in the United States from Chicago, but he spent decades in Peru and he eventually got dual citizenship there, and he was seen as the least American out of the various American cardinals. Do you think that works in his favor?

O'CONNELL: I think it does. I think he -- if you notice yesterday, I found it interesting that he didn't speak any English at all from the balcony of St. Peter's. And I wondered, I said, I wonder why he didn't do that.

BLITZER: He did this morning though.

O'CONNELL: I don't think he wants to -- oh, yes. Pardon me?

BLITZER: He did this morning speak English.

O'CONNELL: That morning -- this morning did, but yesterday, when he first appeared he did not.

BLITZER: Yesterday, he didn't. You're right.

O'CONNELL: Yes. And I think that's because he didn't want to push that too much and have people associate an agenda with speaking in English. But this morning he was speaking with the cardinals at Holy Mass at the Sistine Chapel. He did speak in English and he did speak positively and warmly to his brother cardinals from the United States, along with all the others.

BLITZER: Pope Leo is clearly and intellectually speaks multiple languages, has a degree in mathematics from Villanova University outside of Philadelphia. He also is a fan of tennis. Set in an interview with the Augustinian Order that he considers himself quite the amateur tennis player. Since becoming successor to St. Peter, what else stands out to you about Pope Leo XIV?

O'CONNELL: Well, anybody who is a religious, and there have been about 34 members of religious orders who have become pope, they bring with him the charism and the spirit of their order to the position. Pope Francis did that as a Jesuit. And now, Pope Leo will do that as an Augustinian. And his words yesterday I thought were very consoling and comforting, that he was offering to the world peace and that he was asking the world to be welcoming and loving toward everyone. And I think that's a very good message. It's a good way to start.

BLITZER: It certainly is. Yes, it is. Bishop David O'Connell, thank you so much for joining us.

O'CONNELL: Happy to be here, Wolf. God bless you.

BLITZER: God bless you as well. Thank you. And we'll be right back.

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[10:50:00]

BLITZER: Retired U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Souter has died.

BROWN: He was appointed by former President George H.W. Bush, and served on the high court for 19 years before retiring in 2009. In a statement, Chief Justice John Roberts wrote, Justice David Souter served our court with great distinction for nearly 20 years. He brought uncommon wisdom and kindness to a lifetime of public service.

BLITZER: Here with us right now is CNN's Chief Supreme Court Analyst Joan Biskupic. Joan, thanks very much for coming in. He was known by some, as you know, as the stealth nominee. What will his legacy be? JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Oh, he was a gem of an individual. So, the court right now is very sad about this. Even though he left in 2009, he was close to all the justices. Back in 1990, after Justice William Brennan, a real liberal lion, was stepping down, David Souter was chosen, but he had hardly any paper trail. Who vouched for him? Warren Rudman. Remember the Republican senator from New Hampshire? And chief of staff to George H.W. Bush, John Sununu said he'd be a home run for conservatives. He was anything but.

He ended up being quite a liberal on equality rights, privacy rights, the separation of church and state. He voted to uphold Roe v. Wade, and as a result, and this where his place is in like political Washington, a mantra developed among the hard right saying, no more suitors. They wanted their candidates vetted. In fact, you can tell in modern Supreme Court appointments, everyone has a record that the president could look to.

[10:55:00]

But he had this great Yankee draw. He was an only child. He had grown up in kind of a small little town in New Hampshire. And through Warren Rudman and John Sununu and other New Hampshire figures, had kind of been propelled in -- propelled to the national stage. He had only been on another federal court for a couple of months. His time as a lawyer was mostly, as you know, a state attorney general, a state Supreme Court justice. So, you can see that his record was quite scant. But he -- during his confirmation hearings, you know, he gave a little bit of what he was going to be like and then it emerged that he was this real voice for individual rights.

I remember there was this one moment during his visits with senators and some of the -- one reporter said, you know, how does it feel to be plucked from obscurity? And he said, I never really thought of myself as that obscure. Just, that was his sense.

BLITZER: You covered his confirmation too.

BISKUPIC: Yes. I covered his confirmation back in 1990, I hate to say. But he was -- and then I watched him on the bench all those years and would go visit him. He had this modest sensibility. He would be happy to eat just an apple and yogurt in his office rather than join his colleague sometimes for dinner. But he was just -- he was quite beloved.

BLITZER: Joan Biskupic, thank you very much for your analysis as always. And our deepest, deepest condolences to Justice Souter's family and may his memory be a blessing.

We'll be right back.

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