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The Situation Room

Trump's Massive Budget Packages Faces Tough Test in Senate; FEMA Head Unaware U.S. has Hurricane Season; MAGA Granny Fights to Reject Trump's Pardon. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 03, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Let's go back to Capitol Hill right now where the U.S. Senate has taken the baton from the House on President Trump's legislative agenda. Joining us now, Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

As you know, the Senate majority leader, John Thune, has just three votes to spare in this battle. Some Republican senators are balking at cuts to Medicaid, while others have raised serious concerns about how much this bill will add to the national debt. What are you hearing from your GOP colleagues? Is President Trump's so-called big, beautiful bill headed toward passage in the Senate?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, President Trump's bill certainly is big, but it's not beautiful. It's going to impose terrible cuts on states, on millions of American families by throwing folks off of healthcare and making drastic cuts to programs that feed hungry children.

There are Republicans here in the Senate, Wolf, who realize the political vulnerabilities they will face if they pass this bill as it passed the House, because it will throw millions and millions of Americans off of healthcare and it will pass those costs onto states. Emergency rooms in my home state of Delaware are already badly overcrowded, but if tens of thousands, more people in Delaware, millions more across the country are kicked off of Medicaid, they will simply have to go from medical care to emergency rooms, and that's going to hurt everybody.

[10:35:00]

BLITZER: It passed the House, what, by one vote? Do you think it'll pass the Senate?

COONS: One vote. Look, President Trump is engaged very aggressively. He's trying to muscle Republican senators into committing to vote for a bill they don't want to vote for. On the one hand, you've got senators like Rand Paul who says he won't vote for it because it raises the debt ceiling by trillions of dollars, recognizing that it will add trillions to the national debt. There's others like Josh Hawley, a senator from Missouri, who said he thinks that the deep cuts to Medicaid are cruel and uncalled for. They have a very tough path here.

They're also trying to repeal the clean energy investments to manufacturing tax breaks that were in the Inflation Reduction Act, that'll impact important business growth and manufacturing growth in a dozen states. So, Wolf, if they've got their work cut out for them this week as they try to pass this bill with only Republican votes.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens. You say this bill, Senator, will take healthcare away from Americans, but President Trump is emphatic that there will be, in his words, no cuts to Medicare and says he's only talking -- he's only taking on waste, fraud, and abuse. How do you respond to that?

COONS: That's just not true, and I think it's important that folks look into the facts here. They're cutting hundreds of billions of dollars out of Medicaid by imposing work requirements, by reducing the amount of the federal state share. So, in the end, rather than throwing a few fraudsters off of Medicaid, they're going to throw millions of Americans off of Medicaid and pass those costs onto states and onto hospital systems all over our country.

We're going to see rural hospitals close. We're going to see urban hospitals overwhelmed. And frankly, it's going to impact the healthcare of every American.

BLITZER: Is there a role for Democrats in these final days before the final vote?

COONS: Absolutely. What we are doing, both what I'm doing right now with you, Wolf, what we're doing in our home states and what we're doing on the floor is raising the alarm about some of the untruthful arguments that are being made by Republicans in favor of this bill.

Overwhelmingly, the focus of this bill is in increasing tax cuts for the richest Americans going forward, making sure that they continue to enjoy the deep tax cuts passed in 2017. What it's not doing is reducing the deficit. It will add trillions to the deficit and debt. So, when Republicans like President Trump make the argument that this is about fiscal responsibility, that's just not true. Don't believe me, listen to the Republican senators who say this is a fiscally irresponsible bill.

BLITZER: Senator, you've also slammed President Trump's trade policies saying they're hurting American families and shrinking the economy. But in a new CNN poll, I assume you saw it, Americans still say they trust Republicans more to handle the U.S. economy. They lead Democrats by seven points on this critical issue. That number is down just slightly from November of 2023. Why are Democrats seemingly failing to convince Americans they can handle the economy despite all the economic turmoil we've seen this year?

COONS: Well, look, Trump -- as prices go up and economic growth goes down and Trump keeps showing the chaos of his approach to tariffs, on again, off again, TACO Tuesday. He's decided he's going to chicken out again on massive tariffs on different countries that he's been applying in uneven and underhanded ways. As they see the impact of that on their costs, on their economic future, I think those numbers will change.

BLITZER: We shall see. CNN has learned, Senator, that President Trump has privately complained that the Supreme Court justices he appointed are not sufficiently standing behind his agenda and that he has directed particular ire at Justice Amy Coney Barrett. What does that tell you about how Trump views the role of the Supreme Court?

COONS: I think President Trump profoundly misunderstands the role of the federal judiciary, which is to be politically neutral and to deliver their judgements on laws and on legal actions and on decisions by the president in what they view as a fair and independent reading of our constitution and the laws. The idea that just because he nominated certain judges to federal courts or even the Supreme Court that they should always support his agenda is just flat out wrong. Ahistorical, unconstitutional, arguably dangerous.

[10:40:00]

BLITZER: Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, thanks so much for joining us.

COONS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Also new this morning, staff at FEMA caught off guard as the agency's new acting head told them he previously didn't know the U.S. actually has a hurricane season. He said this at a briefing just yesterday, according to multiple sources. Some thought the remark was a joke, but other others said it raised very serious concerns about the acting administrator's experience.

CNN's Gabe Cohen has been covering the story for us. He's joining us here in the situation room with more. Concern is already rising over FEMA's preparedness. How are federal officials responding?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, Wolf, as you mentioned, to be clear, there were plenty of FEMA staffers who heard this yesterday on this briefing call and thought this must be a joke. And that is what the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees FEMA has said it was, they told me, quote, "FEMA is laser focused on disaster response and protecting the American people."

But I also spoke with some FEMA personnel who were inside that briefing yesterday, who couldn't really tell if David Richardson, FEMA's new acting administrator was kidding around, or if he was essentially saying that he was pretty unfamiliar with hurricane season before taking this new job last month.

You may remember when he was put in charge last month by Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, he had no prior experience managing natural disaster. He comes from the Countering Weapons of Mass Destruction Office at DHS, and this has just raised red flags among FEMA staff about the lack of experience at the top as hurricane season is now underway and who's going to be making those decisions with what information when lives need to be saved and potentially communities need to be preserved during these catastrophic storms. BLITZER: He wasn't joking. It's obviously very serious. And it underscores his lack of experience in dealing with these kinds of issues as he's the acting FEMA director right now. We've also learned, Gabe, as you know, that FEMA is not putting out a new disaster plan for this upcoming hurricane season, which is about to begin, what's the significance there?

COHEN: Yes, so that also came out of this briefing. We heard Richardson say that despite what FEMA had previously said that they were going to be putting together this new plan that, in fact, they are not going to be putting out a new disaster plan. And the significance there is that, look, Homeland Security has come in, they have exerted extreme control over FEMA in recent months, and we saw them just a few weeks ago get rid of FEMA's strategic plan for the rest of the year, and it has left so many FEMA officials, from top senior leaders down to rank and file wondering, what is our mission this summer? What resources are going to be in place? Because remember, there have been extensive staffing cuts, some 10 percent of FEMA is gone, 30 percent expected to be out by the end of the year.

And so, there's a lot of confusion, a lack of guidance, and this only underscores what they're heading into, and that can confusion as hurricanes potentially hitting the weeks ahead.

BLITZER: People who live in those potential hurricane zones should be very, very concerned right now. Gabe Cohen, thank you very much. Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf. coming up, we're going to speak to a woman who appears to be the only January 6th defendant who rejected her pardon from President Trump.

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[10:45:00]

BROWN: Well, we've seen a lot of pardons and commutations from President Trump just a few months into his second term, but only one of those defendants has come forward and rejected the offer. Pam Hemphill, known as ex-MAGA Granny, is one of 1,500 Capitol rioters pardoned for their roles in the January 6th Capitol riot. She spent two months behind bars. But Hemphill says she's guilty and she got what she deserved.

And Pam Hempfield joins us now from Boise, Idaho. Thank you so much for coming out. So, you recently reached out to your senator to help secure a formal acknowledgement from the Justice Department that you are refusing clemency. The Office of the Pardon Attorney responded saying, Ms. Hemphill's non-acceptance is noted. There is no further action needed. Our office will not issue Ms. Hemphill's certificate of pardon and will refrain from requesting any notation of pardon on her criminal history record. Obviously, it's unusual to reject a pardon. Tell us more about your decision here.

PAM HEMPHILL, REFUSING PRESIDENT TRUMP'S JANUARY 6 PARDON AND SERVED TWO MONTHS IN PRISON FOR JANUARY 6 CRIMES: Well, thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. You know, it would be a part of Trump's narrative that he's been pushing that the DOJ is weaponized against him, right? I don't want to be a part of that. And of course, that went down to the J6ers, they caught onto that and jumped on that and said, yes, the DOJ was weaponized against us and we didn't get due process and we didn't get whatever they're claiming, you know, with their court proceedings. And it's all a lie.

I had due process. I was guilty. Everything the DOJ was upright, you know, with me. And so, I thought, I can't be a part of this. No way. I'm not going to be a part of Trump's lying narrative. And plus, you know, it'd be a slap in the Capitol police officers, the rule of law. No, I couldn't dare live with myself taking a pardon. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

BROWN: You mentioned the Capitol police officers. You were actually -- you went inside the Capitol building that day. I believe we have some pictures. You told us that you were being trampled on by your fellow rioters. And that Capitol police -- here we go. You're right here. Actually, helped save you.

[10:50:00]

Clearly, you've done a 180 since that day. Tell us about how you ended up in the Capitol building to now rejecting Trump's pardon? What led to your revelation?

HEMPHILL: Well, actually it didn't start for me till after I was out of prison. It wasn't like a one-night white light experience. I had started a J6space, I had them in my space on Twitter, now X. And they were, you know, playing the victim role. And I thought, why are they supporting the ones though that had injured and attacked officers?

But it what happened, Gateway Pundit put out an article about Ryan Samsel. He's the one that Epps (ph) whispered in his ear and pushed the gate and knocked down one of the Capitol police officers, female. And he had told Gateway Pundit that he lost his whole eye in jail. Well, that wasn't true. He never lost his eye, but his gifts and to go went way up, you know?

And I caught onto that, took it to the space, told everybody about it, and they gaslighted me and said the information I got was false and kicked me out and started smearing me. And so, I started a J6 gaslighting space on X and all the sedition hunters and the Democrats came in and started bringing receipts and proof and believed me about my stories I was hearing.

So, I just discovered one lie after another and I thought this narrative is false. It's not true. I learned that the Capitol police did not open the doors. Nancy Borowski was not responsible for the National Guard. On and on, all the lies in their narrative that they've been putting out there. So, I thought, you know, this is insane. I'm done. I'm done with these people. And I'm going to do my own research.

BROWN: And you realized you had been -- did you feel like you had been a victim of misinformation up to that point that led you to the Capitol that day with the election was stolen, rhetoric, and all of that, which of course is not true?

HEMPHILL: Absolutely. It wasn't misinformation though, it was disinformation.

BROWN: That's right.

HEMPHILL: A hundred percent. Everything I've researched, that they lie about everything. And they're just following the footprints of Trump. It all goes back to Trump. You know, they're coming after me, but they're really coming after you and scared everybody. And they've lost their critical thinking. And I didn't realize a president could ever become a cult leader. And I realized from Sam -- Steven Hassan, he wrote the book, "The Cult of Trump," that I was in a cult. You know, this was an actual cult.

BROWN: I'm glad you specified disinformation because that is when information that's not true is weaponized, right. That's different from misinformation, which is when, you know, we all misspeak or, you know, say something that, that may not be true, but not intentionally. And you think you were a victim of disinformation.

You actually, when on the podcast of Enrique Tarrio, the Proud Boys leader who also was pardoned. You did a bunch of research with him -- about him, I should say, for a while before that conversation. Why did you think it was so important to go on and confront him on that podcast?

HEMPHILL: Because I think it's important that we continue to present the facts to these people. It helped me years ago, 45 years ago when I was -- I've been sober now 45 years. And people had confronted me and kept putting facts in front of me, and saved my life. And I know that they don't hear us per se, but they will -- we plant the seeds, keep putting the facts out there to them, you know, because they can't lie to themselves forever. But I think it's important that they know that we know that they're gaslighting us and they're not being honest about their story.

BROWN: Yes. Because President Trump and a lot of his MAGA followers still say it wasn't an insurrection, it was a peaceful protest. How do you think he would react to you rejecting his pardon?

HEMPHILL: Oh, he'd probably say, get her back on probation and give her a terrible PO. (INAUDIBLE) her every day. That ungrateful lady.

BROWN: Are you worried?

HEMPHILL: No, I wanted to finish my probation. No, not really. I want -- I do like to finish my sentence to honor my judge.

BROWN: Do you worry though a pardon can make things easier in terms of getting, you know, certain types of insurance once you leave jail and kind of clear out the red tape, do you worry that you're rejecting something that could help you make your life easier now?

[10:55:00] HEMPHILL: No. Being honest and pushing back on Trump. No, there's nothing I could lose. No. And it's -- it doesn't matter the cost of continuing to lie or be dishonest with yourself, it's not worth it. It's not worth -- anything they want to do to me, it's OK. I'm not worried about nothing.

BROWN: Pam Hemphill, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing, you know, your experience and why you're rejecting this part and we really enjoyed having you.

HEMPHILL: Oh, thank you very much.

BROWN: All right. take care. Wolf.

BLITZER: And coming up Lil Wayne, Meek Mill, and President Trump, they were all named in a social media video from a man claiming to be one of the inmates who escaped from a New Orleans prison. Why he's asking for their help. That's next.

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