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The Situation Room

Trump Threatens to Cancel Musk's Government Contracts; Russia Launches Largest Air Attack Against Ukraine; West Virginia Miscarriage Legal Warning. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 06, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: SCIUTTO: Leading public feud with Elon Musk. Musk is, as you know, slamming the president's major policy bill, what Trump calls the big beautiful bill, saying it will drive up the deficit, and Musk is warning that Trump's tariffs will cause a recession later this year. How do you respond to that?

STEPHEN MIRAN, CHAIR, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Look, you know, I think that's a bit silly. First of all, we know from 2018, 2019 that the tariffs did nothing of the sort, economic growth was great, and that's why Americans voted on a landslide to reelect Donald Trump because they knew that his policies, including the tariffs from his first term, created such an economic boom. And it's going to do it the same.

And the big beautiful bill is going to create a big economic boom, just like the tariffs. And on top of that, claims like that ignore so much revenue that's going to come in from the tariffs. The Congressional Budget Office put out a study yesterday that showed that the revenue from the tariffs is going to just about completely pay for the additional tax incentives that are new to this bill for the extension, that tax cuts.

And on top of that, there's additional revenue that'll come in from getting economic growth up about $4 trillion over a decade if we get growth to 3 percent. So, the deficit's going to come down, deficit's going to come down.

BLITZER: So, what I hear you saying is that you have trust in the Congressional Budget Office, is that right?

MIRAN: Well, so what -- I trust the Congressional Budget Office to work within very narrow context of rules that have been given by Congress for the sake of passing legislation through the rather complicated reconciliation process. But what I don't have trust in is everybody using those numbers correctly, because those numbers are like looking at one tiny corner of a picture instead of the whole thing, and you got to see the big picture.

The big picture is economic growth is going to cause a revenue boom, $4 trillion over a decade. Tariffs are going to cause a revenue boom, $3 trillion over a decade. Our policies of pushing out the supply side of the economy through tax relief and deregulation are going to bring inflation down and with the interest rates, which is going to cause another about $3 trillion over a decade.

This is huge numbers, right? Huge numbers of revenue, and that's not counted in the score for the legislation. You got to put these together from different sources.

BLITZER: The president has also threatened, as you know, Stephen, to end Elon Musk's government contracts amid this public war that's going on between the two of them. Is that an appropriate use of executive power?

MIRAN: Look, you know, I don't discuss individual companies with the president. You know, I talk about economic policy and the economy and economic data. And you know, what I can tell you is that today's job report show that the economy is strong and that we are -- and that they under underlying the importance of passing the one big beautiful bill so that we don't derail this economy into a recession.

BLITZER: Stephen Miran, thanks so much for joining us from the White House.

MIRAN: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And up next, we'll be joined by former defense secretary Leon Panetta as Russia launches one of the world's largest era attacks against Ukraine.

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BLITZER: New video coming into CNN. You can hear what Ukrainians have experienced over the last few hours, Russia is launching a wave of drones and ballistic missiles across Ukraine, killing at least four people and wounding dozens more.

Joining us now is Leon Panetta. He served as defense secretary and CIA director under President Obama. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. Do you see these latest Russian strikes showing that Vladimir Putin is making good on his threat to retaliate big time after Ukraine's rather humiliating attacks on Russian airfields in recent days? How far do you think all of this will go? How far will Putin go?

LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA AND CIA DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: I think the clear message is that Putin is going to continue this war without pressure from the United States, without pressure from President Trump he feels that he is in control of this situation and he's going to continue to hammer Ukraine largely because President Trump will not put pressure on Putin.

And as a consequence, he thinks he has a license to continue to do this. And not participate in any kind of ceasefire. It is a very tragic situation right now in Ukraine.

BLITZER: It's a horrible situation indeed. President Trump, as you know, Mr. Secretary, spoke to Vladimir Putin on Wednesday. I want to play for you and for our viewers and get your reaction to something that Trump said that he told the Russian leader. Listen to this.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Sometimes you see two young children fighting like crazy. They hate each other, and they're fighting in a park. And you try and pull them apart, they don't want to be pulled. Sometimes you're better off letting them fight for a while and then pulling them apart. And I gave that analogy to Putin yesterday. I said, President, maybe you're going to have to keep fighting and suffering a lot because both sides are suffering before you pull them apart, before they're able to be pulled apart.

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BLITZER: The president of the United States comparing the two sides, Ukraine and Russia, to fighting children. What do you make of that analogy?

PANETTA: I think what it tells me is that there's a total advocation of leadership by the United States in dealing with Ukraine, for the president to now turn his back on that situation and say that somehow, they've just got to continue to fight until they're exhausted is not leadership. This is not leadership.

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The president ought to be putting pressure on Putin by saying very clearly, if you will not agree to a ceasefire, then we will do everything in our power to help Ukraine defend themselves and ultimately defeat you. That's the message that Putin has to hear, and he's not hearing that. What he's hearing is a weak president basically turning his back on the situation and giving Putin a license to continue these horrible attacks.

BLITZER: One Ukrainian lawmaker actually told CNN that President Trump essentially gave Putin the green light to attack. Do you agree?

PANETTA: I don't think there's any question. The president just basically after, this conversation, has said, you know, let him go ahead and keep fighting. He basically gave a pass to Russia. It is incredible to me, you know, every president we've had in the last 80 years has stood up to tyrants and has made very clear that they cannot have their way.

This is the first president in my memory who basically, instead of standing up to a tyrant like Putin, is essentially allowing him to have his way and not putting any kind of pressure on him to do what is right, which is to achieve a ceasefire. This is historically, I think, will be viewed as the United States totally failing in leadership to be able to stand up to a tyrant who brutally invaded a sovereign democracy. That's the message that history will write.

BLITZER: You speak as a former CIA director, a former secretary of defense, former member of Congress for that matter as well. Before I let you go, Mr. Secretary, I want to get your take on that -- this very, very public feud between Elon Musk and President Trump. Musk's companies are involved with many parts of the federal government, including the Defense Department. Do you think this spat could have big implications for national security?

PANETTA: Well, it's headed in that direction if they keep going after each other and threatening each other. The president's threatening to go after the contracts with Musk. And I have to tell you that some of those contracts, particularly on SpaceX, are very important to our national security. So, I'm not sure where that's going.

But look, Wolf, this is something I've seen in 50 years of public life. It's when two huge egos are involved in the White House. There is no room for two egos in the White House. Obviously, when they're getting along, they were able to try to get some things done, but when that breaks down, because both of them wanted their way and are not willing to give in, then it becomes a very deteriorating situation in which -- I mean, if Trump thinks that Ukraine and Russia are kids fighting in the backyard, look at the White House.

BLITZER: Leon Panetta, the -- as always, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

PANETTA: Good to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Pamela.

BROWN: And coming up right here in the Situation. Room, Wolf, possible legal trouble if you have a miscarriage in West Virginia. That's the warning from an attorney in that state. We're going to speak to him up next.

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BROWN: Well, this month marks three years since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. And women in the U.S. lost their constitutional right to an abortion. Following that ruling, a number of states have banned or severely limited access to abortions. Some women fear they could face repercussions even if they miscarry, something our next guest says is a valid concern in West Virginia.

Joining us now is Raleigh County prosecuting attorney Tom Truman. Thank you for coming on the show, Tom. So, bottom line are women in the State of West Virginia at risk of prosecution if they miscarry.

TOM TRUMAN, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, RALEIGH COUNTY, WEST VIRGINIA: They might be. And I base that on a synthesis of a number of issues that started really about a decade ago. One thing that people need to be aware of is prosecutorial discretion. Prosecutors have a pretty wide range of what they can pursue as criminal charges.

And I was at a break and overheard some of my colleagues, and what started as a discussion about unborn children being victims of crime turned into another avenue, which was very much anti-abortion. At the time, it didn't mean much to me because Roe was the law of the land and I didn't think there was anything these people could do about it.

But with the overturning of Roe, and there's a few statutes in West Virginia and a case that does cause me concern, one of which is the concealment of a deceased body. And there's an absolute defense to that if you report it to law enforcement within 48 hours of when you dispose of the body. Then you go to the definition our legislature has provided over the years, and there's a very fine line between miscarriages and very young children.

[10:50:00]

The case of Supreme Court decided involved a three-week-old child that was born at a campground in a county north of here. They did not report it to police, but police tracked them down because they were on the run from Colorado. There was evidence the child was missing and the Supreme Court said, no, you didn't affirmatively report that to police. So, you are stuck with the conviction for that concealment charge.

BROWN: So, I'm going to get to a police question in just a second. I just want to make sure I just follow up with you specifically to better understand. So, you say there could be a situation where a woman who miscarries in West Virginia could be prosecuted. Do you believe there is any scenario in which a woman who had a miscarriage deserves to be criminally charged?

TRUMAN: I can think of none. We wouldn't do that. But again, prosecutorial discretion allows for some room to maneuver around those things. And even though I personally wouldn't do that, I can't say that that couldn't happen here. My message is that you need to be aware of your surroundings and the philosophy of the prosecutor in your jurisdiction.

BROWN: So, just to follow up on the police question, because you have said that you actually think it is important for a woman who miscarries to consider alerting police. We've spoken to some reproductive law experts who spoke against that, saying it could lead to an unwarranted investigation. I mean, could you give any assurances that a woman who had a miscarriage and alerted police wouldn't be investigated?

TRUMAN: I can't. The only thing I was referring to was the safe harbor of the statute if you report it in 48 hours, affirmatively to law enforcement, then you can't be prosecuted for that. But I understand there's a bunch of downsides for all of this, including women not seeking medical care when they need it, because they're worried about these consequences.

BROWN: So, you mentioned --

TRUMAN: But my message was to try and get people to be aware of what is around them. And, you know, I'm certainly not soliciting to do this.

BROWN: So, you have mentioned in your prior interviews that a woman's emotional state or even comments she makes after could influence a prosecution. I mean, you know, miscarriage, which is considered common, is often a devastating occurrence for a woman, emotionally and physically. It can lead to depression, anxiety, grief. Some may feel embarrassed or ashamed. Who is qualified to make the grand determination whether a woman has the proper emotional state after a miscarriage?

TRUMAN: Yes, I concur with that. I mean, to me this is a matter that should not be pursued, but there are individual prosecutors who may look at it differently. Keep in mind, I'm in a profession where collectively we're only right 50 percent of the time.

BROWN: Who are these individual prosecutors specifically, and how motivated are they to bring these cases?

TRUMAN: I've been asked that, and here's the problem, this conversation took place at a break at a prosecuting attorney seminar over a decade ago. I have no idea who those people are, if they were assistants, if they were elected, if they're still in office or still participating as prosecutors. I just don't know the answer to that.

But I will say that there are probably people in West Virginia that would share their philosophical outlook on things, and that's a concern.

BROWN: Can you give any more specifics? I mean, Roe v. Wade was overturned two years ago. I think a lot of people might be watching this and wondering like, why are you talking about it this now? And you know, it -- was it three years ago? It might have been three years ago. Why are you talking about this now? And like people want to know, are there actually prosecutors in West Virginia who are going to bring these cases?

TRUMAN: Well, not what -- not the ones we're talking about. I haven't heard anything about that, but about 40 miles south of where I am there's a prosecution going on for -- involving fetal remains and a gentleman that ran over him with his car is my understanding. Again, I'm not acquainted specifically with the facts of that, but that's what triggered the question to me because I was available and was willing to talk about it.

BROWN: So, what is the legally proper way, in your view, for a woman to dispose of the remains after a miscarriage?

TRUMAN: You know, that's a medical question. I don't really have a good legal answer. I was just trying to sound an alarm that there are people out there that are looking for opportunities. You know, the law changes when people push on it. And if that's your philosophical view it would be an opportunity given the case law and the statutes to do so.

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BROWN: Right. But if it's a medical question, why would the law be involved then?

TRUMAN: Well, that isn't that constantly an issue? We do all sorts of things legally that really should be within the province of somebody else.

BROWN: Right. But I -- you know, a miscarriage, it's spontaneous, it's involuntary. You know, a woman has very little control over that, and this idea that she could be prosecuted for how she handles that is I think really alarming to a lot of women. Is the reason underpinning this to ensure women won't get an abortion illegally in West Virginia because of the strict abortion ban there? Is that your sense in this conversation?

TRUMAN: That's a very good question for which I don't have an answer. There's been a steady march in the West Virginia legislature of tightening up abortion. You'll notice that since Roe was reversed, there was a call for a statewide referendum, which has been refused. I'm not sure why. If that's the view of the population like they did in Ohio, why we couldn't do that here. I don't know.

BROWN: So, basically, you're sounding the alarm, you are concerned that there are prosecutors who are bringing these cases, but you can't give us any specifics on who that is. Tom Truman, thank you very much for coming on the show.

TRUMAN: Well, I don't know if that was helpful or not, but I tried.

BROWN: Well, we're going to follow up with you and try to get some more specifics on who you were speaking to and that kind of thing. Because I think that that's really important and sort of missing here. Thank you so much.

TRUMAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: And coming up here in the Situation Room, it's the ongoing feud between two of the most powerful men on the planet. Tech journalist Kara Swisher standing by to join us here in the Situation Room to talk about the spat between Elon Musk and President Trump and how it played out online. That's coming up next.

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