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The Situation Room

Interview With Sally Quinn; Trump and Vance to Attend Show at Kennedy Center; Ocean Current Collapse. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired June 11, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:01]

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: That is also true for the government. You have a responsibility to protect, not to provoke.

And this was a purposeful set of confrontations. And the governor was correct to call and say, we're first, but not last.

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: You and I have known each -- Rahm, you and I have known each other for a long time. You know politics. You know politics well.

Does President Trump benefit from this showdown between him and California Governor Newsom?

EMANUEL: Yes and no.

And what I mean by that answer is on the short term there may be a yes, but if this all of a sudden becomes a violent act where the government -- one citizen or one individual is physically hurt, then this could clearly from just a pure political standpoint flip on the president.

Remember the other piece of what the president is trying to do. He doesn't want anybody to look at what Tusk -- rather, Elon Musk called the ugly bill. He doesn't want a debate about 40 -- all the person -- children that are being kicked off of Medicaid.

So there's also a distraction element to this. So on a short term, I would say there's a piece of that politically that you could say benefits the president. But it can easily flip on the other side, in the same way that would be true for the state and politics, and then no matter what anybody says, is not far, if not center, for either the president or what they're trying to do or for the mayor and the governor in that sense, situation.

But so I wouldn't answer it simply it's good politics, because I actually think there's an element to this where the swing voters, independent voters are not going to like the idea of Marines and the militarization and the constant militarization, constant confrontation on the streets.

And I say one thing, Wolf, if I can, draw the camera back a little on this point and look at this. We are a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants. Every president, every state governor and every mayor over the last 30 years, because Ronald Reagan was the last president that changed the immigration laws, has contorted themselves to a deal with a broken system.

If the president wanted to lead, he would introduce legislation to finally resolve the issue of immigration, because you're not going to do it on the streets of L.A., New York, Chicago, or in the rural areas, the meatpacking areas and other places. It's going to be solved in the halls of Congress.

And, to me, the most telling sign is that dealing with this is the one thing that he has a responsibility to do, which is to govern, he's refused to do as a president. Every president -- President Obama tried DACA. President Bush tried the Kennedy-McCain bill. Everybody's tried to figure this out. Governors have tried to figure this out. Mayors are left in a situation.

The real solution is, Democrats actually historically now have moved on confronting and dealing with illegal immigration. And, in fact, Republicans have started to move on legal immigration. The president is abdicating his responsibilities and looking for this confrontation, rather than looking for a solution.

BLITZER: Before I let you go, Rahm, this morning, President Trump announced the framework of a new trade deal with China. The president posted that the U.S. is getting 55 percent tariffs to China's 10 percent, and both countries reportedly will ease export restrictions.

Admittedly, the devil, of course, is still in the details and are not yet fully known. Are you confident, Rahm, that the president has hammered out a major deal with China that would be beneficial to Americans?

EMANUEL: No. Yes, and -- well, here's what I would say. In Japan in 2010, China used the coercion of rare earth minerals. After two months, because we confronted them and worked with Japan, they lifted it.

To me, this is not the end point. The United States must go on an emergency basis to build -- not just finding the rare earth minerals. We can do that, but the processing and the manufacturing of the magnets. We have about four years in my view to get this done, so the United States does not become dependent on China.

So I would say to you, the work product is only the starting blocks of what should be an emergency effort, like we have done on semiconductor manufacturing, of how to wean ourselves independent of China's stranglehold on something. Japan was a warning sign literally over a decade ago. We're in that position.

As ambassador in Japan, I worked on how to confront China's coercion. China just showed what they're going to do in the future. We need to protect ourselves for the future. So I would say, on a short-term basis, this is basically a cease-fire. Long-term basis, we need to basically harden ourselves so we don't become a victim of China's coercion, which is all they do as a core economic tool of their economic coercion.

[11:35:01]

BLITZER: All right, Rahm Emanuel, thanks so much for joining us.

EMANUEL: Thank you, Wolf.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, Wolf, just ahead right here in THE SITUATION ROOM: Crucial ocean currents are slowing down and could collapse in the coming decades.

This morning, we have brand-new insights into the devastating impact this could have for the planet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: New this morning, new research suggests a critical network of Atlantic Ocean currents is getting weaker and could be on the verge of collapse.

BLITZER: And those currents regulate the Earth's weather and climate, and scientists are now warning that, if they were to collapse, the impact on the planet could be catastrophic, from deep freezes to destructive storms.

[11:40:03]

CNN's chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir, is joining us right now.

Bill, explain a little bit more to our viewers what we're learning from this study.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Wolf.

Well, first, let's just show you what we're talking about. The AMOC, as it is known, is a conveyor belt of water that runs in the Atlantic Ocean. It pulls warm water up from the Caribbean, up into the northern latitudes, and then circulates back down to the Gulf Stream. If you have ever been off the coast of Miami, that's part of this.

But it is breaking down as a result of Greenland melting. All the freshwater flowing off of that ice sheet is changing the salinity, which drives the motion of this. So, if it stops and slows down, scientists have been worried about what would be the result of that.

Well, let me show you some other factors about this. It moves it around. It influences global climate, as you know. Studies now show us it has been slowing down. And what effects that would have would be on sea level rise and wicked weather around the world.

But what would be interesting about this new study, shows how cold it will get in the winter months in places like Europe as a result of this freezing. You might remember that movie "The Day After Tomorrow" that projected, if this happens, that New York City would freeze.

Well, this science now shows that North America would get much hotter, even in the winters as well, whereas, meanwhile, over in Europe, around London, around the Netherlands, Northern Europe, would see plunging, plunging cold temperatures in the summers, 55 degrees below zero in Norway, two degrees below zero in London, much colder than they're used to in the winters there, while the summers would remain scorchingly hot as well.

This is the first time scientists have wondered, what happens if the AMOC, that current breaks down, at the same time would get two degrees of global warming? Would they balance each other out? But what's really interesting is that this intense cold would be an added pain layer on top of societies around the world, in addition to the deadly heat we're seeing as the Earth overheats under fossil fuel pollution.

BROWN: It's really frightening. When do we expect to see some of these impacts?

WEIR: In our children's lifetimes, within this century. There's not real certainty about the timing. These are complicated systems as well. And there are other studies about the AMOC current that say it's not breaking down as soon as some have feared right now, but, obviously, we need a lot more science, a lot more study.

But, at the same time, the Trump administration is absolutely gutting all climate science and public-facing information at the same time. So it just adds to the entire crisis.

BLITZER: Yes, sounds terrible.

All right, Bill Weir, thank you very much for that report.

BROWN: All right, and coming up: President Trump and Vice President Vance both expecting a mixed response when they attend a show at the Kennedy Center. The president completely remade the institution shortly after taking office following years of criticism.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:00]

BLITZER: Tonight, President Trump and the first lady will attend the opening night of "Les Mis" over at the Kennedy Center here in Washington. It's his first show at the venue since he became president, replaced its board and made himself chairman of the Kennedy Center.

Trump has organized a fund-raiser for the center around the performance tonight, with guests paying up to $2 million. Some of the cast plans to boycott the production because of his participation there.

BROWN: Joining us now is longtime "Washington Post" columnist and Washington insider Sally Quinn. She is also the author of a new novel on faith and an unlikely relationship called "A Silent Retreat." Sally, congratulations on your novel. We will, of course, get to that

in just a minute, but we have a lot going on here in Washington, so want to get your thoughts on that.

You are one of the most notable Washingtonians. So what is your reaction to the president turning the performance of "Les Mis" at the Kennedy Center into a fund-raiser?

SALLY QUINN, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I don't think anybody is surprised. Not a big shock. I think what was a shock was when he took over the Kennedy Center and fired everybody on the board on the committee, which has never been done before, because it's always Republicans and Democrats. He just threw all the Democrats out, which no one's ever done, and brought in all Republican.

And I think that he's decided he's going to be the head of the Kennedy Center Honors next year. He's going to be the master of ceremony. He's going to choose the acts, the entertainers, who get the award. And so most of the people who should get it will probably boycott if they were asked.

Norman Lear famously refused to go to the White House when Trump was here during his first term for the Kennedy Center Honors. And that's when Trump just decided he'd had it and never wanted to go to the Kennedy Center Honors again. So it's that kind of thing.

They have lost huge numbers of subscriptions, the Kennedy Center. They have lost a lot of money. He's fired everybody. People are quitting. It's really sad because it's one of the great institutions of Washington.

BLITZER: It's true. As you and I know, we have been here in Washington for a long it's me. Kennedy Center is a very, very special place, as we all know.

What do you make of Trump's decision to effectively take control of the Kennedy Center by making himself the chairman, replacing all of the board members with his supporters?

QUINN: Well, again, I don't think it's any surprise. I mean, he's taking over everything. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't rename Washington, D.C., and call it Trump, D.C.

I mean, he says he's one of the greatest presidents since George Washington. So why not?

BROWN: Wow.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Obviously, you follow politics closely. You're following the Trump administration closely. What are your thoughts about the immigration protests that started in California and are now popping up, obviously, in other parts of the country?

[11:50:00] Do you think Trump's deployment of the National Guard and the Marines have helped or hurt the situation?

QUINN: I think it's only inflamed the situation.

I mean, I think it was provoked by having all these ICE people walk into schools and churches and drag children out to deport them. I think that's just been so cruel, the way it's been done. And I understand the protesters.

I'm afraid the Democrats have gone too far with their response to that, which is Gavin Newsom says, come and get me and throw me in jail. Just see what you can do, buddy. I don't think that kind of rhetoric helps. But I think that they ought to do everything they can to try to quell the protests.

But I think that it's a disaster to send in the National Guard and particularly a disaster to send in the Marines. The Marines, I kept thinking, these poor young guys have just signed up for what they think is a career and all of a sudden they're fighting their own countrymen. They're in a situation where they might end up having to kill somebody for protesting.

BROWN: Well, let's hope it doesn't end there.

I mean, the administration says for now they're there to protect the buildings and the ICE officers. We hope, obviously, it doesn't get to that point.

But Gavin Newsom -- you talked about the Democrats' response. He used some really strong words in his speech last night, saying that the time for checks and balances, that's no longer here, that basically this is the moment we have all been fearing when it comes to the threat to democracy. This is an authoritarian regime now.

What do you -- do you agree with that? Or do you think..

QUINN: Well, I think it is a moment where the authoritarian regime rears its ugly head, and I think it could get worse. I mean, this is not the beginning. This is -- your mind goes back to Kent State, where students were shot and killed by the National Guard. And that was a catastrophe.

And that's what's going to happen. At some point, somebody's going to get killed. And then it's going to be a riot, and protests all over the country and more troops being brought out and more people killed. So I think that -- I think Trump is wrong to escalate this.

And I wish Gavin Newsom would just try to go down, lower the rhetoric so that it just quiets people down. And I think what the Democrats need to do is to make it clear that they're not in favor of the people burning cars and looting buildings, because that's what you see on the screen. That's what the Trump people love, is to see all the burning and the violence and all that kind of thing.

They're using it to their own advantage. And I can see why. You look at this and say, oh, my God, who are these protesters? And that doesn't do the Democrats any good. So I think they need to lower the temperature.

BROWN: I think we're all -- many of us, we should say, are looking for an escape right now from the day-to-day news. And you have written this beautiful novel that really is an escape. It's called "Silent Retreat."

I remember you were telling me about this several years ago, and I actually love this story, Sally, because you were telling me, I can't get a publisher in New York to pick up my book, but you never gave up. You were tenacious and you were relentless. You found a publisher, and I'm so glad you did, because it's an excellent novel.

For those of you who are not familiar, it chronicles a relationship between a journalist who is fleeing her failing marriage with a TV news star and an archbishop sworn to celibacy. It all happens in silence. I love that part of it too. How did you come up with the idea for this novel?

QUINN: Well, I went to a silent retreat when I was doing a religion Web site at "The Washington Post," and I went with a group who did these excursions, and my husband thought it was a riot that I was going to be in silence for three days.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Ben Bradlee, everyone, Ben Bradlee.

QUINN: He didn't think I could stick it out, but it turned out to be an incredible experience, and what I found was this Holy Cross Abbey in Virginia, this monastery, was on this beautiful 1,000-acre farm on the Shenandoah River, and it was the most beautiful, magical, quiet, peaceful place I have been in a long time.

And I just loved being in silence. You take long walks. You go to services with the monks. You don't have to be religious to go there. It's a spiritual experience more than anything else, and it really helped me figure out things in my life, just being there and being in silence, and thinking about what I was -- my husband had dementia at the time, and I was going through a very rough time.

I kept going back because it was so helpful to me to be there, and then he ultimately died. There was a wonderful monk there who I consulted with. It's the only time you're allowed to talk, Father Maurice (ph). And he really got me through Ben's dementia and Ben's death.

And I would go there for three days every year, and just stay in silence, take long walks, sit by the river, think, and it just saved my life, really.

BROWN: It's beautiful.

[11:55:00]

BLITZER: How difficult was it to write a novel like this about the silence and all these relationships that were going on?

QUINN: I -- it wasn't hard for me, because I started conjuring up the idea of two people having an affair when I first got there. It's a very sensuous place, sensuous between love and sexuality and spirituality.

And I thought this would be a wonderful place for two people to have an affair. So I got the idea of them -- there are no locks on the doors. The doors are open.

BROWN: Wow.

QUINN: So you can wander in.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: All right, we're going to keep all the X-rated content for everybody who reads the book.

BLITZER: It's "Silent Retreat."

BROWN: There's some very steamy scenes in this.

QUINN: I thought you told me that Wolf was going to ask me about the X-rated...

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Oh, yes, we're out of time, unfortunately for Wolf.

BLITZER: Next time. Next time you come back.

BROWN: Next time. You will have to come back for that, a reading from Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Yes, Pamela want to be to read some of those sections, which I unfortunately...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: It's true.

QUINN: Wolf always chickens out.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: All right, thanks so much.

BLITZER: All right, the book, once again, "Silent Retreat: A Novel" by Sally Quinn.

BROWN: Yes, Sally Quinn, thanks. We love having you here.

BLITZER: Thanks very much for writing this novel. Thanks for coming in.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Thank you.

BLITZER: And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning. You can always keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer, @PamelaBrownCNN. We will see you back here tomorrow morning 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is next after a short break.