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The Situation Room

Israel and Iran Trade Strikes; Trump Reviewed Iran Attack Plans; Trump Admin. To End Suicide and Crisis Hotline; SpaceX Starship Rocket Explodes. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 19, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Just in, Israeli civilians can now leave what are called protective spaces after sirens stopped sounding in the northern city of Haifa and its surroundings just a little while ago. Now, we received reports less than an hour ago that Iran fired more missiles at Israel. Earlier today, Israel was hit by a new wave of Iranian missiles with a major hospital in Be'er Sheva sustaining extensive damage in the southern part of Israel.

I want to bring in Karim Sadjadpour, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Karim, thank you so much for joining us. In a guest column that you just wrote for The Economist, and it was a terrific column, very, very excellent, you write this, "Iran has an uncanny way of hijacking American presidencies. The 1979 Iranian Revolution and subsequent hostage crisis ended Jimmy Carter's presidency. The Iran-contra affair tainted Ronald Reagan's presidency. Iranian machinations in post-war Iraq corroded George W. Bush's presidency. The October 7th attacks on Israel by Hamas, a member of Iran's so-called axis of resistance, triggered a brutal war that subsumed Joe Biden's presidency. Donald Trump may have envisioned a second term spent striking deals to resolve wars, but the Iran-Israel war could suck him in, too," end quote.

What are the pitfalls that, Karim, do you see right now of America getting directly involved militarily in this conflict?

KARIM SADJADPOUR, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Thank you so much, Wolf. This is what former Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld called known unknowns, right. I think as Admiral Stavridis was alluding to earlier, war is opening up a black box and what you receive is very rarely what you expect.

In the case of Iran, it's a big, powerful nation. You know, 90 million people. They have enormous oil and gas resources. They've obviously been outmatched by Israel in this war, militarily, diplomatically, technologically. But you know, up until now we have a 46-year case study now of the Iranian revolution. It's a regime which has always shown a willingness to fight and exhibit defiance.

And so, you know, their options range from going after global trade corridors, like the Strait of Hormuz, going after major oil installations in the Persian Gulf. And even going after U.S. outposts, diplomatic and military outposts in the Middle East, and I'm sure there are many things that I'm not even thinking about right now.

BLITZER: In your excellent article in The Economist, and I recommend people read it, you also write about how Israel and Iran are what you describe as unnatural enemies. Tell our viewers what you mean by that.

SADJADPOUR: Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, Wolf, because really, in my view, these two peoples, Persians and Jews, have really a 2,000- year history of cultural affinity. This isn't a war of ancient hatreds. And if you look at a lot of the contemporary geopolitical conflicts, whether that's Russia-Ukraine, Israel-Palestine, China- Taiwan, those conflicts are about land and resource disputes.

In the case of Iran and Israel, there's no direct land or resource disputes. And I would argue that countries actually have complimentary geopolitical strengths, which is, you know, Israel is obviously a tech power. Iran is an energy power. So, they're not in direct competition. In fact, historically before the 1979 revolution, the two countries had actually a very good working relationship.

BLITZER: Yes. Israel used to have, when the Shah was in power, an excellent relationship with Iran. I remember those days well. A little earlier today, Karim, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, spoke about the diplomatic talks between the U.S. and Iran. Listen to this. Listen.

[10:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, and for that to take place, Iran cannot enrich uranium. It's as simple as that. You gave them the chance to do it through negotiations, they strung him along. And you don't string along Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is that what Iran was doing? What do you think?

SADJADPOUR: Iran was certainly enriching uranium, and they've long sought to have a nuclear weapons capability. The big question is whether they plan to actually turn that screw and cross the nuclear threshold and detonate a bomb or not. But, you know, Wolf, I think the important moment we're in right now is that President Trump has this very fateful decision to make, whether or not he's going to bomb Iran's nuclear facility in Fordow.

And what we know historically over the last 46 years is that this Iranian regime, you can count on probably two fingers. The number of times it's compromised and it's when it faces this combination of factors. Number one, it feels existential economic pressure. Number two, it faces a credible military threat. Number three, it faces a united diplomatic front. But very importantly, number four, it's provided kind of a face-saving diplomatic exit.

What I worry about right now is that those three factors exist. It's isolated. There's a credible military threat. It's experiencing major economic angst. But the offer that was given to them was, quote/unquote, "unconditional surrender." That's what President Trump demanded of them. And most dictators are not prepared to take the offer of unconditional surrender.

You know, I think we need to think seriously about packaging this a little bit differently. So, there's a ladder for them to climb down from.

BLITZER: Karim Sadjadpour, thank you so much for joining us. Karim is with the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Appreciate it very, very much.

SADJADPOUR: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Wolf, just ahead, lawmakers voicing concerns about the intelligence surrounding Iran's nuclear progress. Up next, we'll speak to a national security expert under George -- President George W. Bush on if this situation mirrors the one years ago in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BROWN: Back to our breaking news. Israel's defense minister says, Iran's supreme leader, quote, "cannot be allowed to continue to exist." This comes after Israel says an Iranian missile caused extensive damage to a major hospital in the southern part of the country. Iran says it was targeting an Israeli command and intelligence center near a hospital.

Joining me now is Michael Allen. He served on the National Security Council for President George W. Bush. He was also the majority staff director for the House Intelligence Committee and is a managing director at Beacon Global Strategies. Great to see you, Michael. Thank you for coming on.

So, based on what we know, there are three aircraft carriers that are either now in the region or on their way. What does that suggest to you? Does it suggest that a U.S. attack against Iran is imminent?

MICHAEL ALLEN, FORMER MAJORITY STAFF DIRECTOR, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BEACON GLOBAL STRATEGIES AND FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL MEMBER UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: It suggests an attack is imminent and/or the president is setting the theater to warn the Iranians that the United States is very serious about military action and that might have the effect of conditioning them to make concessions and negotiations that they might not otherwise make. So, it serves two purposes at once.

BROWN: That's -- that makes a lot of sense. And in terms of reviewing the different plans, that's what our sources tell us is going on. But given the specifics of what's happening with the military positioning, at this stage in the game, do you think the president would have to narrow in or hone in on a certain plan or is -- can you still keep the options open?

ALLEN: I think he can keep his options open for a little while, but I believe what they're doing now is they're weighing all the intelligence, weighing that against what they believe the capabilities of the bunker buster bomb are, and trying to come to some determination, do we need more than one? Do we need two or three? What's the likelihood of success in this? So, I think the president needs -- if he's going to go in, this needs to succeed because it's a big risk. It could put us in the crosshairs of Iran's terrorist networks. And so, I think right now, they're looking about the -- looking to the efficacy of a possible operation.

BROWN: And what are the complexities with trying to get to that point of certainty, which is pretty unattainable when you have a weapon that's never been used, right, this bunker busting bomb, and you have a nuclear facility, Fordow, that, you know, is in Iran. How do you know?

ALLEN: So, it's very hard. I mean, the air force has obviously modeled this, probably tested lesser versions of it, but I think the only thing going for us in this instance is that I think the Israelis control the airspace in Iran. So, I don't know that we would need to go in multiple -- we might need to go in multiple occasions, but I think it would be a permissive enough environment to where if we didn't get it with one, we might be able to go in repeatedly.

What I'm more worried about, however, is do we need to hit any of the other nuclear sites within Iran because we're worried, for example, did Natanz not completely implode or where is other highly enriched uranium, and what should we do about those eventualities?

BROWN: Do you see any scenario where the U.S. goes in for a strike and this doesn't lead to an escalation between Iran and the U.S.?

Sa-I think it definitely leads to an escalation. The question is, can we mitigate the blowback? We're obviously setting the theater to try and protect against any Iranian strikes with short-range ballistic missiles on our forts in the region, but we need to worry about this, and we'll need to worry about it for some time to come, because the Iranians won't take this lying down. It'll be a long-term plan of theirs to come after us.

Now, listen, we're weighing a cost benefit analysis. We might not have done this if it was just us trying to march through a maximum pressure sanctions campaign, but since the military action has begun, I think the president's weighing the benefits of taking out their program with the downsides of potentially leading Iran to come after us harder for years to come.

[10:45:00]

BROWN: Are there any echoes here of your time during the Bush administration and the lead up to the war in Iraq? ALLEN: I think so. It's a good flag to look at the intelligence more closely and understand what it's saying. One of the differences here is that, in this case, we at least have the International Atomic Energy Agency that's been into Iran. So, we know that a lot of these stores exist. We do know that the centrifuge halls exist, unlike in Iraq when we were just making assessments.

What I'm more worried about are the limitations of intelligence. Are there other sites that the Israelis or the United States have not been able to figure out? And if that -- or are they hiding their HEU in different places that we can't reach or that we don't know about? That is what I'm more worried about. So, intelligence is central to everything, but I'm more worried, in this instance, about its limitations.

BROWN: And what are some of the lessons learned? I mean, when you go into a situation, you might think one thing, and then when you're in war different scenarios happen that maybe you didn't expect?

ALLEN: I think the number one lesson from Iraq WMD was group think. Everybody assumed that they had it. No one questioned the foundation of the intelligence. In this case, I think there is a little bit of group think here because everyone assumes we can get the job done just by hitting Fordow. I hope they're red teaming that proposition. I hope they're thinking through this to a great degree. Because what we don't want to do is take the huge risk and get involved here only to only have downsides in the future.

BROWN: And red teaming, just for our viewers to understand, that's bringing in a team to look at all the whole -- poke holes in it, right?

ALLEN: Exactly.

BROWN: Look at all the ways that it could go wrong and not actually be successful.

ALLEN: Look at every angle and figure out what are the downsides and what are we not thinking of.

BROWN: All right. Michael Allen, great to see you. Thank you so much.

ALLEN: Thank you so much.

BROWN: Wolf.

BLITZER: Very good conversation. Thank you, Michael. Appreciate it. The Trump administration cutting back right now on some specialized suicide prevention services for some at risk LGBTQ plus young people. We'll have more on the public health impact of this decision right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00] BLITZER: Breaking news out of the Middle East this morning, Israel saying Iran has crossed, but it's calling a red line after an Iranian missile strike in Southern Israel caused extensive damage to a major hospital in Be'er Sheva. In the wake of the attack, Israel's defense minister is going as far as to say Iran's supreme leader, the ayatollah, Ali Khamenei, cannot be allowed to, quote, "continue to exist."

BROWN: Well, the Trump administration is ending the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline specialized services for LGBTQ plus youth starting next month. The CEO of the Trevor Project is slamming this decision, writing, this is devastating to say the least. Suicide prevention is about people, not politics. The administration's decision to remove a bipartisan evidence-based service that has effectively supported a high-risk group of young people through their darkest moments is incomprehensible. The fact that this news comes to us halfway through Pride Month is callous.

BLITZER: Let's go live right now to CNN's Jacqueline Howard who's in Atlanta following this development. Jacqueline, what's the potential public health impact as a result of this decision?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Wolf, if according to the Trevor Project they say that a national survey shows nearly 40 percent -- 39 percent of LGBTQ plus youth have reported seriously considering attempting suicide in the past year. That's based on a 2024 national survey. So, that's the mental health implication that is here.

But let's look back at what the Trump administration's Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration has said in a statement. SAMHSA officials said in a statement, quote, "On July 17th, the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline will no longer silo LGB plus youth services, also known as the press three option to focus on serving all help seekers, including those previously served through the press three option."

Now, what they mean by the press three option, when someone calls 988, they're given the option to press one to reach the veterans crisis line, press two for Spanish speaking services, press three is to access specialized services for LGBTQ plus youth. And that press three is what's ending on July 17th.

And as for how many people have used that service since 988 launched in 2022, more than 14.5 million people have called, texted or sent messages to the 988 number overall. Among them, nearly 1.3 million were routed to the LGBTQ plus specialized service. So, that's how many people we know have used the service. And the elimination of this service was expected based on a preliminary memo that leaked in April. That memo did indicate this was coming to an end. But now, Pam and Wolf, this has become real. And we now have an end date, which is July 17th.

BLITZER: Yes, very disturbing indeed. All right. Jacqueline Howard, thank you very, very much. And to our -- who maybe struggling with thoughts of self-harm, the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is available still at 988, and the Trevor Project is also available 24/7. You can text START to 678-678 or call a counselor directly at the number on your screen.

BROWN: Well, new this morning, have you seen this Terrifying moment in Texas at a SpaceX launchpad? Watch this.

[10:55:00]

Wow. You just saw a SpaceX Starship Rocket explode into that giant fireball when preparing for a test flight late last night and Starbase, Texas. Thankfully, SpaceX says no one was hurt and everyone was accounted for. But yet, again, another rocket explodes.

BLITZER: A horrible explosion, indeed. Horrible. All right. Coming up, we're following all the breaky news out of the Middle East right now. We'll bring you all the latest developments right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Happening now. Breaking news, escalating threat. Israel's defense minister says Iran supreme leader cannot continue to exist.

[11:00:00]